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I want to make feat trees that start with feats similar to the one below. I wonder if a +2 to one ability score is too much or too little coming from a feat. Thanks.
Divine Strenght
You are the descendant of a deity, a favored of a god or one of your parents was peticularly pious. This divine gift grants you supernatural strenght.
Prerequisite: This feat can only be taken at 1st level.
Benefits: You gain a +2 divine bonus to strenght.
Special: You cannot take this feat multiple times, but you can take similar feats that affect other ability scores.
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I would avoid the ones for spellcasting DC just to avoid the DC creep...but otherwise, doesn't seem too out of place for a feat. A bit more powerful then a standard feat maybe. There is a human alt racial trait that lets you pick two abilities at +2 in exchange for the extra feat and extra skill for reference.
I want to make feat trees that start with feats similar to the one below. I wonder if a +2 to one ability score is too much or too little coming from a feat. Thanks.
Divine Strenght
You are the descendant of a deity, a favored of a god or one of your parents was peticularly pious. This divine gift grants you supernatural strenght.Prerequisite: This feat can only be taken at 1st level.
Benefits: You gain a +2 divine bonus to strenght.
Special: You cannot take this feat multiple times, but you can take similar feats that affect other ability scores.
Well: Personally, I wouldn't. Stat point limits are in place for a reason, and if a character truly wants that 18 or 20 in their primary stat to start with, they will spend their points or their 18 roll accordingly, and/or apply racial modifiers.
Applying something like this, even with the balances that you have in place (which are still pretty solid), is something that I would at least be careful about implementing. If at 1st level I see a Human with 22 Strength, that guy is going to have stats that are way beyond anyone that does not have a double digit in their total character level.
What if it was a +1 bonus instead of +2?
I want these feats to be the base for other feats. One related to strenght let's the PC punch a whole in reality to let the PC dimension door at short range once a day thanks to his great strenght.
The one linked to dexterity let the PC take a move that doesn't create attack of opportunities once a day.
That sort of stuff.
I want these supernatural abilities available to players just based on who they are, not their class or race.
What if it was a +1 bonus instead of +2?
I want these feats to be the base for other feats. One related to strenght let's the PC punch a whole in reality to let the PC dimension door at short range once a day thanks to his great strenght.
The one linked to dexterity let the PC take a move that doesn't create attack of opportunities once a day.
That sort of stuff.
I want these supernatural abilities available to players just based on who they are, not their class or race.
Again, the ruling and such is up to you. You may do it how you wish, and we are here to merely provide suggestions. In regards to the +1, it would still be something that I advise against, but it is something that isn't nearly as gamebreaking as allowing a +2.
However, I have listed my suggestion and reasoning behind it.
Personally, the second part as an "Improved Mobility" feat would be really cool to have, granting a +6 to AC V.S. AOO's, and 1/day ability to not provoke an AOO from a single movement action.
Why do you need these feats to be prereqs for other feats? Why not just give those other feats a high ability score prereq directly? Like, why is the 22 STR Orc not strong enough to punch a hole in reality when the 22 STR Human is?
A +1 is something I would not bother with taking as a player. Giving a +2 is too good for a feat IMHO. It can affect saves, skills, and various other things, just by taking one feat.
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I would avoid the ones for spellcasting DC just to avoid the DC creep...but otherwise, doesn't seem too out of place for a feat. A bit more powerful then a standard feat maybe. There is a human alt racial trait that lets you pick two abilities at +2 in exchange for the extra feat and extra skill for reference.
A feat that gives +2 to an ability is stronger than this trade, because it's impossible using the alt racial trait to have an initial score of 22. However, a feat could give a starting +2 over a 20.
I think an alternative could be a limitation like: you can't use this feat to have a starting strength greater than 20 (or 18 if you prefer).
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I would avoid the ones for spellcasting DC just to avoid the DC creep...but otherwise, doesn't seem too out of place for a feat. A bit more powerful then a standard feat maybe. There is a human alt racial trait that lets you pick two abilities at +2 in exchange for the extra feat and extra skill for reference.A feat that gives +2 to an ability is stronger than this trade, because it's impossible using the alt racial trait to have an initial score of 22. However, a feat could give a starting +2 over a 20.
I think an alternative could be a limitation like: you can't use this feat to have a starting strength greater than 20 (or 18 if you prefer).
You have a point there...but 22 str or dex isn't a HUGE deal. Orcs and goblins can get that already and if somebody whats 22 con, I don't think it to be too game breaking. Kinda why I advised against the casting stat ones tho. Meh, the feats he gave examples of to be keyed off this seems to be on the WAY too power for a feat category however. A 4th level spell usable at will or ignore all AoO by movement?!? Yikes. That's like capstone level of powers here.
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+2 STR is a better Weapon Focus (for a melee weapon). +2 DEX is a better Weapon Focus (for a ranged weapon). +2 CON is a better Toughness. +2 [casting stat] is a better Spell Focus.
So all of these are far superior to already-good feats that exist.
How about something like this instead?
Heroic Prowess
You are darn good at this.
Benefit: Choose an ability score. You gain a +2 bonus to ability and skill checks based on that ability.
Special: If you choose Strength, your carrying capacity is calculated as if your Strength score were 2 points higher.
Why do you need these feats to be prereqs for other feats? Why not just give those other feats a high ability score prereq directly? Like, why is the 22 STR Orc not strong enough to punch a hole in reality when the 22 STR Human is?
The supernatural part. He isn't just strong, he is supernaturally strong. This is the justification for him being abled to punch a hole in reality.
That is not bad at all Umbral Reaver.
A 4th level spell usable at will or ignore all AoO by movement?!? Yikes. That's like capstone level of powers here.
This is why I wrote they are usable once a day. ;-)
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I want to make feat trees that start with feats similar to the one below. I wonder if a +2 to one ability score is too much or too little coming from a feat. Thanks.
Divine Strenght
You are the descendant of a deity, a favored of a god or one of your parents was peticularly pious. This divine gift grants you supernatural strenght.Prerequisite: This feat can only be taken at 1st level.
Benefits: You gain a +2 divine bonus to strenght.
Special: You cannot take this feat multiple times, but you can take similar feats that affect other ability scores.
Well think about it this way.
You get +2 to ability scores over the course of 8 levels.
In the same time, you get 4 feats. So your 1 feat is the equivalent of gaining 8 levels for the purposes of raising ability scores.
Ignore the naysayers, your feat is fine. It's your world, shape it how you like.
OP: "Is my feat too strong?"
Others: "Yeah, that's too strong."You: "Ignore the people who say it's too strong."
Well, if the OP didn't want advice on whether these feats are too strong, why do you think this thread is here?
He posted this on the WoTC boards, too, and got shot down.
+2 flat to an ability score is what hobgoblins have over elves.
Hobgoblins are LA+1.
If you want to give out flat bonuses, either call it a story award for a campaign and hand wave it in, or give it a +LA.
Personally, just make them +1 LA and Azlanti humans, and you're probably good to go.
==Aelryinth
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A 4th level spell usable at will or ignore all AoO by movement?!? Yikes. That's like capstone level of powers here.This is why I wrote they are usable once a day. ;-)
Opps, missed the once per day part...still that DD is awefully strong. The spell like feats are all level 0 or at best level 1 spells. Then again ignore AoO once per day is pretty much like a short range DD...only using a move action and people seem okay with that...so meh, guess it's not too out of line after all :P .
Naysayers? He asked for our opinions. You make it sound like we are twisting his arm. One of us has already said "Again, the ruling and such is up to you."
edit:Don't be so quick to judge. It might help to read all of the post first.
Ignore the naysayers, your feat is fine. It's your world, shape it how you like. If you don't mind jacking up encounter difficulties a bit to cope with the increased power of the party, what's the harm?
Personally, I'd give the feats a prerequisite of level 3 or maybe 5, to represent them 'growing into' their divine power, mostly because it would feel like a required feat at level one, and also because I'm lazy and wouldn't want to rebalance all the first level encounters because of the 22 strength freak. (at level 5 +2 to a stat will get lost in the noise)
Well I did ask to see if it is compatible with current rules, but yeah, I can make it fit fine in my campaign. I'm just a stickler for uniformity between homebrew and RAW.
The thing is, I think this is too weak for the up coming Mythical adventures.
Sort of his frustrating to have it in between.
He posted this on the WoTC boards, too, and got shot down.
+2 flat to an ability score is what hobgoblins have over elves.
Hobgoblins are LA+1.
If you want to give out flat bonuses, either call it a story award for a campaign and hand wave it in, or give it a +LA.
Personally, just make them +1 LA and Azlanti humans, and you're probably good to go.
==Aelryinth
Nah. I want this open for all races and with no LA.
Umbral did have a good suggestion, but +2 to all ability and skill checks related to the ability does sound a bit powerful. :-P
In order for the human variant to gain an additional +2 to an ability score, they have to give up a feat, as well as their racial skill point (1 per level.)
I'd allow a feat to grant the +2, so long as it reduced your skill points per level by 1 as well (to a minimum of 0). If you do not have at least 1 skill point per level to lose, you cannot take the feat.
I don't see how a +2 bonus is going to break the game.
Because if it did, Hobgoblins and Aasimar should be run out of town along with Humans.
I am not saying it is gamebreaking, but it is better than a lot of other feats.
Ability scores do a lot for a character, more than one feat should be able to do on average. The only feat that I think really matches it is leadership, and it is not even accepted at every table in its RAW form.
The human/aasimar option is still worse than these feats because those require you to put your +2's into different ability scores, so the second bonus effectively goes in your secondary ability. Here, the extra +2 can go in the same score, so it increases your primary stat. A +4 is better than a pair of +2's - and that's especially true of casters.
Feats are nice because they give me options to customize my character. Creating feats that are far better than existing feats isn't nice because they become essentially mandatory (either I take them or I'm artificially handicapping myself for no reason), which reduces my available options.
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I once wondered if such a feat would eliminate the need for a belt/headband to do the same thing. The stat items seem practically mandatory given the way people talk about them, but do you really want to burn a feat on something you can buy? Which is more valuable-- feats or item slots?
Before you answer that question, remember-- it's not a combat feat and nobody can get it as a bonus feat. (Except 1st level Humans...)
The human/aasimar option is still worse than these feats because those require you to put your +2's into different ability scores, so the second bonus effectively goes in your secondary ability. Here, the extra +2 can go in the same score, so it increases your primary stat. A +4 is better than a pair of +2's - and that's especially true of casters.
Feats are nice because they give me options to customize my character. Creating feats that are far better than existing feats isn't nice because they become essentially mandatory (either I take them or I'm artificially handicapping myself for no reason), which reduces my available options.
Ain't this a bit too dramatic? No feat is mandatory and you can always customize your PC the way you see it.
A +2 to an ability score is great but ain't game breaking as people pointed out. If you're preoccupation is to be on par with other power gamers at the table, I am not even sure all of them would take the ability boosting feat.
I once wondered if such a feat would eliminate the need for a belt/headband to do the same thing. The stat items seem practically mandatory given the way people talk about them, but do you really want to burn a feat on something you can buy? Which is more valuable-- feats or item slots?
Before you answer that question, remember-- it's not a combat feat and nobody can get it as a bonus feat. (Except 1st level Humans...)
...or some really derp homebrew races that will probably be banned anyway :U
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The human/aasimar option is still worse than these feats because those require you to put your +2's into different ability scores, so the second bonus effectively goes in your secondary ability. Here, the extra +2 can go in the same score, so it increases your primary stat. A +4 is better than a pair of +2's - and that's especially true of casters.
Feats are nice because they give me options to customize my character. Creating feats that are far better than existing feats isn't nice because they become essentially mandatory (either I take them or I'm artificially handicapping myself for no reason), which reduces my available options.
But there are race options that give +4 already to str or dex and it really isn't game breaking. And I can't really see 22 con being an issue either. I DID point out that the caster stats could be an issue and did advise against any feats that raised those stats. So assuming no boost to any of the casters stats, I just don't see the game braking aspect. A bit of a powerful feat...yeah, but hardly a must have feat honestly.
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What if it was a +1 bonus instead of +2?
I made up some racial feats for Arcane Unearthed races that allowed a Giant, for example, to buy a Feat that allowed him to add +2 to his Strength instead of +1 at his next chance to increase an Ability score through leveling up. (So, when he hit 4th level, if he'd purchased this feat, he could add +1 to any other stat, or +2 to Strength.)
The Quickling Faen had a similar feat that allowed them to do the same thing with Dexterity.
That might make for a way to add the same sort of effect, but weaken it by tying it to the next ability score increase that come with leveling up.
What if it was a +1 bonus instead of +2?I made up some racial feats for Arcane Unearthed races that allowed a Giant, for example, to buy a Feat that allowed him to add +2 to his Strength instead of +1 at his next chance to increase an Ability score through leveling up. (So, when he hit 4th level, if he'd purchased this feat, he could add +1 to any other stat, or +2 to Strength.)
The Quickling Faen had a similar feat that allowed them to do the same thing with Dexterity.
That might make for a way to add the same sort of effect, but weaken it by tying it to the next ability score increase that come with leveling up.
How did you word that feat?
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How did you word that feat?
Ancient Strength – The Giant has learned to tap into the strength of his ancestors, and at the next opportunity to increase an Ability score through leveling, he can choose to gain 2 points of Strength, instead of 1 point in any other Ability score. He only gains this benefit once, and it must be taken at the next available opportunity to increase an Ability score.
Ignore the naysayers, your feat is fine. It's your world, shape it how you like.OP: "Is my feat too strong?"
Others: "Yeah, that's too strong."
You: "Ignore the people who say it's too strong."Well, if the OP didn't want advice on whether these feats are too strong, why do you think this thread is here?
And I'm giving him my advice, which is to ignore yours.
Everyone's so hung up on the 22 strength at first level. Yeah, it's good. He'll be doing a whopping 1 extra damage (2 on a crit!), and will have 5% greater hit chance!
The theme of OP's game are heroes imbued with divine power. His ideas seem perfectly in line with that concept to me, and will work perfectly fine.
Everybody is not hung up on the 22 at first level. If you had bothered to read you would know that, and stop being a jerk. For someone whose games this does not affect you are getting pretty emotional. You have no idea if they will work perfectly fine or not. That is an assumption. You have not even bothered to ask about how he GM's or how his players are.
How about this ?
Feat: Improvement Through Experience
Once, when you gain a +1 to a stat for leveling up (at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, or 20th), you also gain a +1 to a stat from a different category in the other group. For example, if you took +1 to a physical stat (str, dex or con), your additional +1 must be to a mental stat (int, wis or cha).
You may take this feat multiple times, but each time must apply to a different stat increase from leveling up. For example, if you took this feat at 3rd level and applied it to your stat gain for reaching level 4, you could take it again at level 7 and apply it to your level 8 stat increase. You could not take this feat at level 1 and level 3 and apply two additional increases at level 4, although you could apply one and save the other for level 8.
How about this ?
Feat: Improvement Through Experience
Once, when you gain a +1 to a stat for leveling up (at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, or 20th), you also gain a +1 to a stat from a different category in the other group. For example, if you took +1 to a physical stat (str, dex or con), your additional +1 must be to a mental stat (int, wis or cha).
You may take this feat multiple times, but each time must apply to a different stat increase from leveling up. For example, if you took this feat at 3rd level and applied it to your stat gain for reaching level 4, you could take it again at level 7 and apply it to your level 8 stat increase. You could not take this feat at level 1 and level 3 and apply two additional increases at level 4, although you could apply one and save the other for level 8.
Because this approach has nothing to do with the feat tree I want to make.
The idea is that a "non-magical" fighter will be able, thanks to his supernatural strenght, to do extraordinary deeds. No need for magical items or special class features that are magical. Just his immense strenght will make him memorable. Like punch a hole in reality to use it to dimension door.
Then make it a class feature of the nonmagical fighter you are building? That way, you can balance it internally with the rest of the class.
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It almost sounds like a ki-pool without being ki. That might be a way to go. Create some sort of "strength-pool" (but call it something better than that). Give it a number of points something like 1/level + str mod. Define the things he can do with it as costing a number of points.
Wanna dim-door ? Spend N points and punch it.
Wanna get a +N to a strength check ? Spend N points and do it.
etc.
How about something like this instead?
Heroic Prowess
You are darn good at this.
Benefit: Choose an ability score. You gain a +2 bonus to ability and skill checks based on that ability.
Special: If you choose Strength, your carrying capacity is calculated as if your Strength score were 2 points higher.
This is probably about the best take on it I've seen yet. But notice that this is a lot better than most skill-bonus feats because it offers a +2 to all skill checks associated with that stat. That's likely to be more than just 2 skills.
If you're interested in a way to incorporate characters doing extraordinary things (like punching a hole in reality as dimension door), I think a completely different subsystem would be better. Consider the Hero Point option in the Advanced Players Guide and vary it. Each use of a semi-divine ability costs a hero point, two if exceptionally powerful. That will serve not only to allow or encourage the use of such powers but also throttle them so they're not a constant occurrence.