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Thoughts on a feat to allow characters to get a better mount


Suggestions/House Rules/Homebrew

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Very simply what are your thoughts on a feat to allow characters other than the Cavalier, Samurai or Paladin to get a mount that progresses with the character? Here is my concept:

Improved Mount:
Prerequisite: Ride 4 ranks
Benefit: The character gains the service of a loyal and trustworthy steed to carry him into battle. This mount functions as a druid's animal companion, using the characters ride rank as his effective druid level. The creature must be one that is capable of riding as a suitable as a mount.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My thoughts are the mount ability is WAY to powerful to be given away as a single feat. It should be weaker then both the druid/cavalier mount and a ranger's companion, after all it is just a feat and not a significant class feature. You wouldnt give smite evil as a feat would you?

Honestly I think it shouldnt be a feat at all, they should have to take a level (or 5) of those classes, and if they want it to progress they take the boon companion feat to bump it up. But otherwise they shouldnt be able to pick up major class features so easily.


You could adjust it to be weaker like rankl -4 but my issue is I like the mounted figher classes like Roughrider or Dragoon but do not want all the trappings of the Cavailer. I understand not wanting to give away an overpowered mount but you still have to dedicate to mounted combat, have all the appropriate ranks etc.

You also still take armor check penalties on the ride checks unlike cavailer.

Heck I dont even care ambout any special abilities just a mount that levels with you so at higher levels my horse doesnt get obliterated by one dragons breathweapon attack.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Why not make the feat where your mount receives a level of protection based on your Hit Dice?

Just doing this from the top of my head so you will need to adjust to make sense but, Mount recieves 2 additional Hit Points for every level of the rider?

or make some kind of "Improved Mounted Combat" feat where the outcome is additional hit negations or a bonus to your ride check to negate the attacks etc.


danielc wrote:

Why not make the feat where your mount receives a level of protection based on your Hit Dice?

Just doing this from the top of my head so you will need to adjust to make sense but, Mount recieves 2 additional Hit Points for every level of the rider?

or make some kind of "Improved Mounted Combat" feat where the outcome is additional hit negations or a bonus to your ride check to negate the attacks etc.

Also the problem is that if I am a lv 2 fighter with a heavy trained warhorse the thing is as effective in combat as I am. By level 10 its just a way for me to charge. I'm thinking of a way to keep the mount competitive without having to trade it in every so often with another better mount. I'm really not looking to game the system or take anything away from the cavalier or pally.

How about instead of progressing as a druids companion it progresses as a druids companion less the special powers. So simply it moves along with you. Otherwise I just take leadership and use my cohort as a mount that levels even more quickly.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Grifter wrote:
Otherwise I just take leadership and use my cohort as a mount that levels even more quickly.

In the beastiary there is a section about "monsters" as cohorts. This might be a great way to deal with it. The mount levels and gains hit dice etc but none of the special abilities of the special mounts.

This would also give you the option of followers to guard your camps etc as well.


Kolokotroni wrote:

My thoughts are the mount ability is WAY to powerful to be given away as a single feat. It should be weaker then both the druid/cavalier mount and a ranger's companion, after all it is just a feat and not a significant class feature. You wouldnt give smite evil as a feat would you?

Honestly I think it shouldnt be a feat at all, they should have to take a level (or 5) of those classes, and if they want it to progress they take the boon companion feat to bump it up. But otherwise they shouldnt be able to pick up major class features so easily.

I appreciate the input and am not trying to be argumentative but If I could simply use leadership at 7th level that would allow me a cohort who could be any creature including a dragon that is not outside my alignment that could conceivably be used as a mount as well as a group of followers then how is it that the idea if using a feat to get a horse mount that can level with me "WAY" too powerful?

Yes taking leadership is a workaround but it seems perfectly plausible that I could take a slightly less powerful feat that simply allows for a chance to have a mounted character with a mount that doesn't get outpaced by lv 5 making the classes indicated the only realistic option for a truly mounted character. Plus you can't even cherry pick a level of cavalier since the ability states based on your cavalier level.


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Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

D&D v3.5 had a feat called "Wild Cohort". It can still be found here.

Stea er Borrow it, then convert it to Pathfinder.

Decide if you want to let "Boon Companion" stack with it.


SlimGauge wrote:

D&D v3.5 had a feat called "Wild Cohort". It can still be found here.

Stea er Borrow it, then convert it to Pathfinder.

Decide if you want to let "Boon Companion" stack with it.

Thank you sir that is pretty much exactly what I was looking for. Where is the boon companion?


I think I'd allow it... Maybe limit it, but limit its effective druid level to character level -3.

With Leadership, a player can get a even more powerful mount without meeting any prerequisite other than being at 7th level or higher. And that is not even the most powerful use of that feat.

If you think getting a mount for 1 feat is too much, remember, they most likely will have to get Boon Companion too.

If you really, really want a prerequisite, I'd suggest something like Skill Focus (Ride), bu I do think it's unecessary.


Yes to reiterate it’s not about gaming the system it’s about having a realistic mount as you adventure. If I want to be a dragoon archetype fighter by lv 20 I have an average of 174 hit points and saves to match, my horse has 19 hit points. 1st dragons breath weapon and my trusty steed gets obliterated even on a successful save and the mount is an essential part of my class. Arguably that is the fault of not designing the class with a mount but a good feat would solve all these problems.

Sure, I could just keep trading up as I level and I suspect that’s what most do but what if I really just want a horse?


Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Boon Companion is from Pathfinder Chronicles: Seekers of Secrets.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Grifter wrote:

Yes to reiterate it’s not about gaming the system it’s about having a realistic mount as you adventure. If I want to be a dragoon archetype fighter by lv 20 I have an average of 174 hit points and saves to match, my horse has 19 hit points. 1st dragons breath weapon and my trusty steed gets obliterated even on a successful save and the mount is an essential part of my class. Arguably that is the fault of not designing the class with a mount but a good feat would solve all these problems.

Sure, I could just keep trading up as I level and I suspect that’s what most do but what if I really just want a horse?

Take a level in cavalier and the boon companion feat. You now have a 5th level mount. I would probably agree with something like an 'improved boon companion' feat to bump it up again. But the fighter should actually have to invest to get a major class feature. It shouldnt be given for what is essentially no investment for a fighter.


Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

But then what about non-fighters who want it ? An arguement of "One feat is nothing for a fighter" makes it difficult for non-fighters for whom a feat is a precious, precious thing. And why shouldn't fighters be able to buy nice things with feats ?


Kolokotroni wrote:
Grifter wrote:

Yes to reiterate it’s not about gaming the system it’s about having a realistic mount as you adventure. If I want to be a dragoon archetype fighter by lv 20 I have an average of 174 hit points and saves to match, my horse has 19 hit points. 1st dragons breath weapon and my trusty steed gets obliterated even on a successful save and the mount is an essential part of my class. Arguably that is the fault of not designing the class with a mount but a good feat would solve all these problems.

Sure, I could just keep trading up as I level and I suspect that’s what most do but what if I really just want a horse?

Take a level in cavalier and the boon companion feat. You now have a 5th level mount. I would probably agree with something like an 'improved boon companion' feat to bump it up again. But the fighter should actually have to invest to get a major class feature. It shouldnt be given for what is essentially no investment for a fighter.

Having to multiclass one lv of cavalier and then use every other bonus fighter feat just to keep a mount leveled is awful and doesn't address the issue if I am any class other than a fighter. Besides fighter or not when was the last time you were sitting around with extra feats to spend and couldn't find anything you wanted? Having to deviate even a single feat is a sacrifice to any class.

How do you reconcile that I can accomplish this and then some with leadership? Doesn't it seem more appropriate that there be a way to address the disparity with mounts between some classes and others? If im a cavalier my horse gets 15 HD if im a rough rider fighter 2?

Also the argument that the fighter gets the mount for no investment is not really true. Sure if I want to spend a feat to get a mount that levels with me that’s fine but if I'm not interested in being a mounted fighter why would I spend a feat to get it? Also I have to spend one of my 2 skills per level on ride to keep the mount advancing and I need handle animal leveled as well. Also I need to take feats that correspond with the mount so the investment is clear.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Grifter wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
Grifter wrote:

Yes to reiterate it’s not about gaming the system it’s about having a realistic mount as you adventure. If I want to be a dragoon archetype fighter by lv 20 I have an average of 174 hit points and saves to match, my horse has 19 hit points. 1st dragons breath weapon and my trusty steed gets obliterated even on a successful save and the mount is an essential part of my class. Arguably that is the fault of not designing the class with a mount but a good feat would solve all these problems.

Sure, I could just keep trading up as I level and I suspect that’s what most do but what if I really just want a horse?

Take a level in cavalier and the boon companion feat. You now have a 5th level mount. I would probably agree with something like an 'improved boon companion' feat to bump it up again. But the fighter should actually have to invest to get a major class feature. It shouldnt be given for what is essentially no investment for a fighter.

Having to multiclass one lv of cavalier and then use every other bonus fighter feat just to keep a mount leveled is awful and doesn't address the issue if I am any class other than a fighter. Besides fighter or not when was the last time you were sitting around with extra feats to spend and couldn't find anything you wanted? Having to deviate even a single feat is a sacrifice to any class.

It does address the issue because some classes are better at some things then others. Fighers get lots of feats. Something that requires feats SHOULD be better for a fighter then other classes. And yes its a sacrifice. Its also a powerful boon, hence the cost.

Quote:

How do you reconcile that I can accomplish this and then some with leadership? Doesn't it seem more appropriate that there be a way to address the disparity with mounts between some classes and others? If im a cavalier my horse gets 15 HD if im a rough rider fighter 2?

First of all leadership is its own can of worms. In and of itself, it isnt balanced with any other feat and represents a deliberate choice by a dm if he allows it. It has a big (this will unbalance your game) sticker on it, or it should. That isnt a bad thing, but it shouldnt be used as an example for giving away a major class feature for the cost of a feat. Again, should smite evil be a feat? Should bards spell casting be a feat? I think not.

Secondly, monstrous cohors are actually rather restricted. A pegasus, is a 6th level 'character' for cohort purposes. It is a CR3 creature, with 4HD and a +7 and +2 attack attack routine and an AC ofr 14. A 9th level druid big cat companion (you cant get a 6th level cohort until 9th level) has 8 hd, +13 +13 and +13 attack routine, with an ac of 23.

Quote:

Also the argument that the fighter gets the mount for no investment is not really true. Sure if I want to spend a feat to get a mount that levels with me that’s fine but if I'm not interested in being a mounted fighter why would I spend a feat to get it? Also I have to spend one of my 2 skills per level on ride to keep the mount advancing and I...

The mount would be a powerful ability whether or not you take mounted combat feats or spent a rank in ride (besides any potential prereqs). The animal companion is powerful all on its own. Certainly taking mounted combat works for your concept, but it is not required to make the mount better if it levels along with you. Just because you take feats to make them better does not mean you had to take them in order for it to be good.


Kolokotroni wrote:
Grifter wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
Grifter wrote:

Yes to reiterate it’s not about gaming the system it’s about having a realistic mount as you adventure. If I want to be a dragoon archetype fighter by lv 20 I have an average of 174 hit points and saves to match, my horse has 19 hit points. 1st dragons breath weapon and my trusty steed gets obliterated even on a successful save and the mount is an essential part of my class. Arguably that is the fault of not designing the class with a mount but a good feat would solve all these problems.

Sure, I could just keep trading up as I level and I suspect that’s what most do but what if I really just want a horse?

Take a level in cavalier and the boon companion feat. You now have a 5th level mount. I would probably agree with something like an 'improved boon companion' feat to bump it up again. But the fighter should actually have to invest to get a major class feature. It shouldnt be given for what is essentially no investment for a fighter.

Having to multiclass one lv of cavalier and then use every other bonus fighter feat just to keep a mount leveled is awful and doesn't address the issue if I am any class other than a fighter. Besides fighter or not when was the last time you were sitting around with extra feats to spend and couldn't find anything you wanted? Having to deviate even a single feat is a sacrifice to any class.

It does address the issue because some classes are better at some things then others. Fighers get lots of feats. Something that requires feats SHOULD be better for a fighter then other classes. And yes its a sacrifice. Its also a powerful boon, hence the cost.

Quote:

How do you reconcile that I can accomplish this and then some with leadership? Doesn't it seem more appropriate that there be a way to address the disparity with mounts between some classes and others? If im a cavalier my horse gets 15 HD if im a rough rider fighter 2?

First of all leadership is its...

I agree that if you look to take a mount that will fight on its own you could be looking at an overpowered feat but reviewing the druid companions you have the option of a camel or a horse because the beast needs to be a suitable mount and the cats and other creatures are too small. I get that the mount is part of the class and yes it would be foolish to give smite or lay on hands as a feat but what this is trying to accomplish is get a mount that can be used at higher levels without having to upgrade a monstrous creature or play a class that you don’t want to play. Pathfinder worked hard to eliminate the need to constantly multiclass or house rule to get classes to work outside the box.

Stuff like this makes classes like the Rough Rider or Dragoon useless when your horse gets cut out from under you every fight.


Also consider that what this feat is trying to accomplish is to be able to get a mount that paces with your character instead of being static. A feat that allows you to train a mount beyond just a trained warhorse.

Feats help bend rules to allow better options, what about Master Craftsman that allows fighers to craft magic items? With your logic that makes no sense because fighters don't have the ability to cast spells.


I don't see any issues with having a feat that allows a character to let a pet level. I do however have an issue with it replicating a major class feature of a class. I don't think it's necessary to limit it to mounts, as character might want to have other pets.

I think this would be better (and is meant to stack with boon companion):
Improved Pet:
Prerequisite: Hande Animal 2 ranks
Benefit: The character forms a special bond with one of it's pets. This pet gains power as the character does. If taken by a character that does not have an animal companion, the pet gains powers as if it was a companion of a druid of half the characters level. If taken by a character that does have an animal companion, it instead increases the effective level of the animal companion ability by 1 for every two character levels that do not grant animal companions.

This otherwise functions as the druid's animal companion ability. Showing disrespect for the animals well-being means you may lose the benefit of this feat.


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There is actually a feat that does this already. Take the human alternate racial trait that gives you three skill focuses, then take skill focus knowledge nature. At level three take eldritch heritage (sylvan).... bing bang boom, animal companion at character level minus three. If you feel like, you could take boon companion and have a full druid steed.

No home brew necessary.


also, you can use your other skill focuses on ride and handle animal.


stringburka wrote:

I don't see any issues with having a feat that allows a character to let a pet level. I do however have an issue with it replicating a major class feature of a class. I don't think it's necessary to limit it to mounts, as character might want to have other pets.

I think this would be better (and is meant to stack with boon companion):
Improved Pet:
Prerequisite: Hande Animal 2 ranks
Benefit: The character forms a special bond with one of it's pets. This pet gains power as the character does. If taken by a character that does not have an animal companion, the pet gains powers as if it was a companion of a druid of half the characters level. If taken by a character that does have an animal companion, it instead increases the effective level of the animal companion ability by 1 for every two character levels that do not grant animal companions.

This otherwise functions as the druid's animal companion ability. Showing disrespect for the animals well-being means you may lose the benefit of this feat.

I agree that the feat should not replicate the ability, its not about stealing other classes thunder just making a character with a typical mount realistic after lv 5. I appreciate everyones suggestions.


I don't know about a feat, but I've always felt that characters should have the ability to spend money and time to train a mount to be better.

Grand Lodge

just modify the prereqs for Hourse Master in UC. (this a C&P from the PRD).

Horse Master (Combat)
You blend horsemanship skills from disparate traditions into a seamless mounted combat technique.
Prerequisites: Expert trainer class feature (Advanced Player's Guide 33), Ride 6 ranks.
Benefit: Use your character level to determine your effective druid level for determining the powers and abilities of your mount.
Normal: You use your cavalier level to determine your effective druid level for determining the powers and abilities of your mount.


Ok so after looking at the rules for Eldritch Heritage that will allow you to have a druid pet at character level -2 with the prerequisites of Cha 13 and skill focus it is apparent that this feat would be completely reasonable.

Instead of having a sorcerer’s bloodline you are simply a master trainer.

Master Trainer:
Prerequisite: Handle Animal 3 ranks.
Benefit: The character gains the service of a loyal and trustworthy steed to carry him into battle. This mount functions as a druid's animal companion, using the characters handle animal rank -2 as his effective druid level. The creature must be one that is capable of riding as a suitable as a mount.

I switched it to handle animal because you would be training the animal to become better and now you can use the boon companion feat to get it to max level.

This should add some balance. You now need to spend a feat, or 2 to have a lv appropriate mount, and one of your skill points at every level to level your mount. It eliminates the need for skill focus but restricts your options to mount options as opposed to any animal companion. You also still take armor check penaltys unlike the cavalier. Thoughts?


Trogdar wrote:

There is actually a feat that does this already. Take the human alternate racial trait that gives you three skill focuses, then take skill focus knowledge nature. At level three take eldritch heritage (sylvan).... bing bang boom, animal companion at character level minus three. If you feel like, you could take boon companion and have a full druid steed.

No home brew necessary.

Actually, that doesn't work.

Eldritch Heritage gives you bloodline powers, but the Animal Companion from the Sylvan bloodline is a bloodline Arcana, not power.

It just so happens that it also costs the 1st bloodline power.

You can, however, get a familiar.


Cha 13 is a bit more costly for some characters than Handle Animal 3 Ranks would be, though. 3 skill ranks aren't really equivalent to putting a 13 in a score that you won't use often, especially for Fighters, Barbarians, and the like. Though the fact that you have to continue to spend points on Handle Animal does help somewhat, in an odd way... it's an unusual mechanic. I'd probably be more comfortable with it if it required Skill Focus (Handle Animal or Rdie) or Animal Affinity.


huh..?

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

There's the Advance Mount feat from The Collected Book of Experimental Might. It's 3.5, but an excellent book.


Lemmy wrote:
Trogdar wrote:

There is actually a feat that does this already. Take the human alternate racial trait that gives you three skill focuses, then take skill focus knowledge nature. At level three take eldritch heritage (sylvan).... bing bang boom, animal companion at character level minus three. If you feel like, you could take boon companion and have a full druid steed.

No home brew necessary.

Actually, that doesn't work.

Eldritch Heritage gives you bloodline powers, but the Animal Companion from the Sylvan bloodline is a bloodline Arcana, not power.

It just so happens that it also costs the 1st bloodline power.

You can, however, get a familiar.

Actually, it says that this bloodline power counts as your bloodline arcana, so its both.


Grifter wrote:

...[]...

Master Trainer:
Prerequisite: Handle Animal 3 ranks.
Benefit: The character gains the service of a loyal and trustworthy steed to carry him into battle. This mount functions as a druid's animal companion, using the characters handle animal rank -2 as his effective druid level. The creature must be one that is capable of riding as a suitable as a mount.
...[]... Thoughts?

I really like your adaptation of Trogdar's suggestion, but I don't like a couple of the aspects you changed.

The prerequisites are much lower than the "eldritch" heritage route & the companion's level is better than the original version. Add to that, it really needs to be spelled out that certain traits of said animal companion are removed. The ranks I list below are debatable, as this is off the cuff and not compared to anything save a quick glance over other "mount-related" feats.

This is my opinion, of course, so take it for what it is.

I would suggest the following changes (changes are bolded):

Master Trainer:
Prerequisite: Handle Animal 1 rank, Ride 1 rank, Skill Focus (Handle Animal).
Benefit: Upon selecting this feat, you gain an animal companion in the form of a loyal and trustworthy steed to carry you into battle. Your effective druid level for this ability is equal to your character level – 3 (minimum 1st). The creature selected must be one that is capable of serving riding as a mount, subject to the GM's discretion.
Special: A mount gained in this fashion does not gain the link or share spells attribute of a druid's animal companion. Should a character’s mount die, the character may find another mount to serve him after 1 week of mourning. The new mount does not gain the evasion, devotion, or improved evasion special abilities until the next time the character gains a level.

Edited: I added in the mount death clause to the "special". A character taking this as a feat shouldn't get off without the penalties a character with this as a class feature get for losing their mount. Taken from the samurai entry.

Andoran

I like what Da'ath came up with. I might allow that into my game or just flat out use it. Perhaps bump the Handle Animal to 2 ranks and drop Ride. Those changes more due to the fact I have players who truly enjoy having an animal around as a pet or or fighting companion. I have someone select Ranger just so they could play a character with about 3 different pets for battling alongside.

I have a couple others who want a true fighting companion or rather interesting pet.


I'm with you. I really like Grifter's idea, with the suggestions offered by the other posters in the thread. I currently have about half a page of house rules regarding mounts and making them more survivable for my players, which are overly-complex due to the fact they have to apply to both those with the mount class feature and those using a regular mount. The idea of a feat crossed my mind ages ago, but I had neither the time nor inclination to change the rules we already had in place.

Ultimately, this thread has developed a rather elegant solution to a real problem Pathfinder inherited from 3.5.

Edit: I'm definitely adopting the feat for my campaign, though I'll probably spell out in detail available mounts based off the druid's animal companion entry, i.e. move from horse to pegasi, and so on.


I like the proposed feat as well.

In the absence of homebrew, consider this. Pay a druid or buy a scroll of awaken animal. Afterward, the animal can add levels in a class... like fighter, for feats and barding. Or monk, for special abilities and increased movement. You may have to pay him like a hireling, but nothing is perfect.


TeShen wrote:

I like the proposed feat as well.

In the absence of homebrew, consider this. Pay a druid or buy a scroll of awaken animal. Afterward, the animal can add levels in a class... like fighter, for feats and barding. Or monk, for special abilities and increased movement. You may have to pay him like a hireling, but nothing is perfect.

As far as I know, when you awaken an animal, it becomes an npc. An animal companion cannot be awakened and still remain under player control. It's unfortunate really. I suppose that it's doable if you go with an animal cohort though.


Uhm... Everything but the PC's are NPC's by the very definition of it. You can have npc allies/friends/pets you know.


Sorry, what I was inferring was that an animal that becomes awakened is automatically under the control of the DM. Let me see if I can find that post....

actually, here's why it can't be a companion, which is what I thought was being suggested. Yay for reading comprehension! /facepalm

"An awakened animal gets 3d6 Intelligence, +1d3 Charisma, and +2 HD. Its type becomes magical beast (augmented animal). An awakened animal can't serve as an animal companion, familiar, or special mount."


The question is back-to-front - if the character concept is "mounted warrior", they the question should be, why aren't you using a cavalier/ranger/druid or similar?

A modified Cavalier code would be less clunky than a new companion feat, I would have thought?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Trogdar wrote:

There is actually a feat that does this already. Take the human alternate racial trait that gives you three skill focuses, then take skill focus knowledge nature. At level three take eldritch heritage (sylvan).... bing bang boom, animal companion at character level minus three. If you feel like, you could take boon companion and have a full druid steed.

No home brew necessary.

Great idea but it's wrong. The Eldritch Heritage feat is not sufficient to pull that off as the sylvan power replaces two bloodline attributes not just one. You'd have to have the Improved Eldritch Heritage feat (and the pre-reqs for it) in addition to pull that off.


Funky Badger wrote:

The question is back-to-front - if the character concept is "mounted warrior", they the question should be, why aren't you using a cavalier/ranger/druid or similar?

A modified Cavalier code would be less clunky than a new companion feat, I would have thought?

Because as players we should have more options? We shouldn't have to awkwardly recreate an entire class. Besides what if your a cleric or a bard or even a wizard. Seems odd but if I really want to play a wizard who is riding into combat shouldn't I have the option if I'm willing to sacrifice in other areas?


Da'ath wrote:
Grifter wrote:

...[]...

Master Trainer:
Prerequisite: Handle Animal 3 ranks.
Benefit: The character gains the service of a loyal and trustworthy steed to carry him into battle. This mount functions as a druid's animal companion, using the characters handle animal rank -2 as his effective druid level. The creature must be one that is capable of riding as a suitable as a mount.
...[]... Thoughts?

I really like your adaptation of Trogdar's suggestion, but I don't like a couple of the aspects you changed.

The prerequisites are much lower than the "eldritch" heritage route & the companion's level is better than the original version. Add to that, it really needs to be spelled out that certain traits of said animal companion are removed. The ranks I list below are debatable, as this is off the cuff and not compared to anything save a quick glance over other "mount-related" feats.

This is my opinion, of course, so take it for what it is.

I would suggest the following changes (changes are bolded):

Master Trainer:
Prerequisite: Handle Animal 1 rank, Ride 1 rank, Skill Focus (Handle Animal).
Benefit: Upon selecting this feat, you gain an animal companion in the form of a loyal and trustworthy steed to carry you into battle. Your effective druid level for this ability is equal to your character level – 3 (minimum 1st). The creature selected must be one that is capable of serving riding as a mount, subject to the GM's discretion.
Special: A mount gained in this fashion does not gain the link or share spells attribute of a druid's animal companion. Should a character’s mount die, the character may find another mount to serve him after 1 week of mourning. The new mount does not gain the evasion, devotion, or improved evasion special abilities until the next time the character gains a level.

Edited: I added in the mount death clause to the "special". A character taking this as a feat shouldn't get off without the penalties a character with this as a class feature get...

I am cool with your ideas except I would leave out the skill focus only for the fact that using the Eldritch Heritage chain would be identical without the penalties so since its one less feat you add the penalty if the mount dies, also my options are limited to only mount. But you are correct I would take it to level -3, remove the shared spells and link because the feat is not supernatural in any way. But I really like this version.


I'm not sure that I understand that reasoning. Bloodline arcana has nothing to do with eldritch heritage and its pretty clear in the description that the animal companion only replaces one bloodline power.

It is obviously a pretty powerful option, but by comparison to going out and grabbing leadership, which would net a more powerful companion anyway, this seems like a fair trade off.

You could certainly rule that it requires improved heritage, but it doesn't seem like its supported by the feat. Then again, knowing how DM's usually role, they would just ban it outright and give you the evil eye for being a "munckin"... because blowing a third of your available feats to have a pet just reeks of munchkinism when you can just grab one feat to get a better pet.


Grifter wrote:
Funky Badger wrote:

The question is back-to-front - if the character concept is "mounted warrior", they the question should be, why aren't you using a cavalier/ranger/druid or similar?

A modified Cavalier code would be less clunky than a new companion feat, I would have thought?

Because as players we should have more options? We shouldn't have to awkwardly recreate an entire class. Besides what if your a cleric or a bard or even a wizard. Seems odd but if I really want to play a wizard who is riding into combat shouldn't I have the option if I'm willing to sacrifice in other areas?

Sounds like you're after a points based system, rather than a class based one.


Funky Badger wrote:
Grifter wrote:
Funky Badger wrote:

The question is back-to-front - if the character concept is "mounted warrior", they the question should be, why aren't you using a cavalier/ranger/druid or similar?

A modified Cavalier code would be less clunky than a new companion feat, I would have thought?

Because as players we should have more options? We shouldn't have to awkwardly recreate an entire class. Besides what if your a cleric or a bard or even a wizard. Seems odd but if I really want to play a wizard who is riding into combat shouldn't I have the option if I'm willing to sacrifice in other areas?
Sounds like you're after a points based system, rather than a class based one.

If I was trying to create feats that allowed my character to have the smite ability, a rangers favored enemy, clerics spells and a summoners Eidolon I would agree but having a mount that grows is hardly unique to the cavalier. The druid, ranger, sylvan bloodline sorcerer and any character who takes leadership at level 7 can accomplish a mount that progresses. This simply makes it a bit more streamlined. Cavalier still benefits from class features that make him a superior mounted character. The suggestion that I should play GURPS seems off since the whole concept of feats was to add flexibility to a class based game.


I would let my players spend some cash to buy a mount with some templates stacked on it or roleplay to try and convince/coerce a more powerful creature to serve as their mount. Buy it like a magic item. Not only that, but they shouldn't have to spend their precious feats to boost a creature that is not part of their class. It also makes more sense in game.


i do not know if somebody have alreaymentione it but

http://paizo.com/products/btpy8tdj?Pathfinder-Player-Companion-Animal-Archi ve

"Take your pick of new options for heroes, including new opportunities to give any class access to animal allies"

Soprobably you only have to wait a couple of months.


Grifter wrote:

.

Master Trainer:
Prerequisite: Handle Animal 3 ranks.
Benefit: The character gains the service of a loyal and trustworthy steed to carry him into battle. This mount functions as a druid's animal companion, using the characters handle animal rank -2 as his effective druid level. The creature must be one that is capable of riding as a suitable as a mount.

Thoughts?

I have some. First off, I like it. I've never been satisfied with the existing possibilities for obtaining a good mount at high level. My suggestion is to removed the "-2". Instead I would remove link, share spells, evasion, devotion and improved devotion from the list of benefits. I might add the requirement that animal serve as a mount, but I'm not sure.

Maybe a second feat would use character hit dice instead of handl animal ranks. Mounted combat could use some additional feats too.


If characters do special training when they go up levels, and they do it on horseback, wouldn't their horse gain dice and share the same feats gained? I don't think it takes that much away from paladins. Feat or no feat, it's a game world choice.

Andoran

Nicos wrote:

i do not know if somebody have alreaymentione it but

http://paizo.com/products/btpy8tdj?Pathfinder-Player-Companion-Animal-Archi ve

"Take your pick of new options for heroes, including new opportunities to give any class access to animal allies"

So probably you only have to wait a couple of months.

I am so getting that book as it will hopefully take care of a few things for me. If not then I'll use this newly created feat. The feat along with the ones I adapted from 3.5 and crafted for familiars will be a very nice addition for allowing my players and my own characters more options.


Trogdar wrote:
I'm not sure that I understand that reasoning. Bloodline arcana has nothing to do with eldritch heritage and its pretty clear in the description that the animal companion only replaces one bloodline power.

I see what LazarX is saying. Abbreviated quotes below, emphasis mine:

Fey Bloodline:
Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you cast a spell of the compulsion subschool, increase the spell's DC by +2.
Laughing Touch (Sp): At 1st level, ...[.]... This is a mind-affecting effect.

Sylvan Bloodline:
Animal Companion (Ex): At 1st level, you gain an animal companion. Your effective druid level for this ability is equal to your sorcerer level – 3 (minimum 1st).
This bloodline power counts as your bloodline arcana and also replaces laughing touch.

Using the rules as written, you cannot use eldritch heritage to acquire the animal companion as this feature replaces the bloodline arcana. It just happens to /also/ replace the 1st level power.

The more I think about it, Goth Guru has a damn good point and I don't, as a GM, think I'll even bother using a feat at all (or buying the paizo book regarding animals). Why?

Assuming your "pet/mount/whatever" advances in level along with you, which it probably should, you advance the thing based off the creature type: Animal Type.

I'd ignore the rules linking monster hit dice with size increases, but outside of that, you're good to go.

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