Great frost axe

[prometheuscurse]

Basically I wanted to know if anyone sees a problem with a Lvl. 4 character running around with a frost axe that does the following:
damage and effects
1d12+modifiers
1d6 frost damage (not sure if this ever has limits but it has unlimited uses
Frozen condition for 1d6 turns with a 15dc of the initial attack roll without the modifiers every time and it stacks. I would like to know if this part even exists, but basically it is being treated as if the target cannot take an action. For the purposes of their AC they are flat footed. Unlimited uses.

If anyone cares to give an estimate on its value that would be good too. Also I should note that the Frozen condition was added at a later date by one of the NPCs for free... Please link or cite but opinions are cool too.

[Shadowwalker]

the freezing effect is wild comes in handy if you fight a dragon or demon or devil

[Just Some Bard]

That would be something I would consider vastly overpowered even for a character of much higher level. A level 4 character would be lucky to have just the extra frost damage (a +2 weapon).

[Quandary]

DC15 is not that dangerous at high
but definitely, having just a +2 equivalent item at that level is as much as you should expect,
so yeah, this would be pushing the power level of the game...

is this a Paizo published weapon enchantment? whats it's cost? is that still within Wealth By Level?

[blackbloodtroll]

Could you provide more details?

[Cold Napalm]

Wait...a on hit DC 15 or be stunned for 1d6 basically?!? That is a lot of dice rolling for one thing...which will slow down game play and as such a bad idea on just that account. Power level wise...what the heck are you smoking and did you bring enough to share?

[AdAstraGames]

That should be a +1 Battleaxe of Frost (+2 enhancement base), and that DC 15 "paralysis" effect would probably be at least another +1 enhancement. The closest parallel to it that I can find is "thundering" which gives bonus damage on a critical hit, and has a DC 14 save to avoid being deafened in a +1.

I could see that DC 15 paralysis being either a strong +1 or a weak +2.

If it's a +1, that's a combined +3 enhancement, or +18,000 GP, which is appropriate for a 7th or 8th level PC. If it's a +2, that's a combined +4, for 32,000 GP extra, which is about where a level 10-11 character might have it.

+1 Frost is probably appropriate for a 5th or 6th level character if that's their signature weapon.

[DJEternalDarkness]

level 4? I'd say it's WAY to powerful for level 4; like level 8 plus would I feel that this would be ok for a player/npc. Especially with the unlimited uses of the stacking frozen condition.

As for pricing:
Masterwork Great Axe: 320 gp
Frost: +2 8000 gp (+1 for the required magical level and then +1 for frost)
Condition modifier: more than 24000 (Spell level x caster level x 2,000 gp X 4 (If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4.) Hold Person (The closest I can find to your frozen condition would be a hold person, as you're basically making the person held, as they can't act and are flat footed)

So by following basic math on this, you'd be looking at 32320 gp.

Comparing this to a frost brand would be the closest thing I could think of. A front brand is a +3 frost weapon and costs 54,475 gp; the weapon you're suggesting kind of makes that look weak by comparison. A frost brand gives fire 10 protection and can put out non-magical flames as a standard action; the weapon you're suggesting can do MUCH more than dispel non-magical fires and you have it as a free action on hits that stacks.

Anyhow, by following the wealth by level and using the no more than half of your money can be spent on one time, you'd be looking at a character that'd be at least level 10 to 11 before they could get it. Level 4 should only have maybe a +1 weapon (no special abilities) from the wealth by level tables.

So this is my opinion, too much for a 4th, maybe ok for 8th if you're running a high magic, and totally acceptable if you're 10th to 11th level.

Edit: Oh sure AdAstraGames, ninja me, just because I'm at work...

[blackbloodtroll]

Is this a rules question?

What rules are you asking about?

[DM Carpe]

The DM has made a serious mistake allowing this nonsense.

[prometheuscurse]

Well Blackbloodtroll it is a bit of a rules question. By that I mean I do not think it can be used by a level 4, but I cannot say I care so long as it is within reason. If I was to get specific I would ask What is the level requirement by +1,+2,+3 and so on. I should also note that this is not the only odd add on that this group has received we all have something that you might classify as, WTF he has that? I might just make another thread for that though. This one just happened to be a bit over the top. Something that I did not mention before is that this axe can also "make it rain" lol. Not really sure what that means but the character is supposed to figure that out. Possibly by waving it around or smacking it into things.

Thanks for the feed back so far!

Here is the other thread I accidently made on this same item.
http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz6ll9?Frost-axe-of-doom-to-a-noobs-face#1

[blackbloodtroll]

Okay. This is what I have:

This item, is like, totally powerful right?

Like, way too powerful for 4th level right?

Cannot answer those yet. More information is needed.

Do you know the item's name?

Do you have the items stats?

How much does it cost?

Is this a custom item?

Is it a plot item?

[Chemlak]

Well, let's see... There isn't a standard magic weapon ability that stuns a creature for 1d6 rounds, and the only long-duration stunning effect that works on almost any creature is Power Word Stun, which is an 8th level spell.

The base item itself is (I presume) a +1 Frost greataxe, which is worth 8,320 gp, which, according to the WBL chart is a viable item for an 8th level character (give or take some change).

A DC15 effect from an item is partway between a 3rd and 4th level spell. Assuming it duplicates a (non-existent) 3rd level spell, we get 2,000 x 3 x 5 x 4 (use activated, spell level, caster level, duration in rounds) as our jumping-off point for the stunning ability, which is 120,000 gp on top.

So, this 4th level character is running around with a magic item worth around 130,000 gp, which is 25% of the WBL for an 18th level character.

Overpowered? Not in the slightest.

Overpowered at 4th level? HELL YES.

[blackbloodtroll]

It sounds like a plot device.

There is no rules being broken here.

I am not seeing the rules question.

[Tom S 820]

K well I would only let it trigger on Critical. The to set the DC I ask what spell are basing the effect off of? The DC should be 10 plus level of the Spell+ min stat to cast the spell. So if it hold Person it DC 10+2+1 = DC 13 if it Hold Monster it DC 10+4+2= DC 16 + would say +1 for hold person version or +2 for Hold Monster version.

[Davor]

Lower the Frozen Condition to 1 round, limit it to a few times per day OR once per combat, and I think it'd be fine. It goes over wealth by level a bit, and I would expect the PC to use the weapon for a LONG time, but with the suggested changes it wouldn't be too bad.

[Ross Byers]

I merged the threads on this topic and moved them to the proper forum. Please use the flagging system to report these kinds of problems.

[prometheuscurse]

Just to clarify I am wanting to know how far from or on the rules these things are and if they remain in play how reasonable/unreasonable they are. For all I know this is not a permanent issue. Obviously there are always environmental a factors in this game that could make even something like this reasonable, which I will get too shortly.

To blackbloodtroll's question on plot device I believe you could say that, and it was my assumption until people in the group started believing that their items were permanent. The GM is not even hinting that the items might not be permanent, may have confirmed to other player that they are at which point I started to see this as a problem. Everything is subject to change especial if the plot is custom written. (I also suppose that this question may have been better placed in another section.)

If it is temporary then that should be fine largely because there are some level 20 people running around and possibly a God that could kill us... Lol level 4 has never been so eventful. It could also be that we are being allowed to believe this because our characters' do not know any better. Only time will tell I suppose. Still if it was permanent i wanted to know what others peoples reactions would be and if it was even reasonably possible to be okay, so far the vote is very clear on that. For all I know the GM is going to have one of the Level 20 people run off with it and hide it till a later date, ex. Here are some of the other items as follows:

Pseudodragon(familiar on a character without the typical ability to have one)- basically its purpose is to scout and relay information from a distance easily and to put people to sleep.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/pseudodragon.html

Gauntlet of hail?(not sure on the name, nor if it actual exists) for a 20 foot raidus it rains hail down for 5d10 it has 5 uses I am betting it is refillable would have a clue on the price. As far as I have seen it does not have any terrain effects that might hinder movement.

Cloak of invisibility- as a standard action a character can become invisible till its next turn, no cool down or use limitation.

The other two I have not seen much of one is a glove that upon touching and opponent it does so much constitution damage the person is considered dead, 10 use limitation possible refiling cost unknown. I believe there is a roll but so far they just are dead. And some kind of fire enhancement on a bow I have never seen used, well they burned down a house and a tree with it.

[Kalridian]

This looks a lot like something I did in the first game I GMed, when I got carried away with the whole "give players cool custom items as rewards"-schtick. mine were a bit more reasonable but still overpowered. I mean, seriously? Even if it was usable only 10 times, without any means of refilling it, this insta-kill-glove is WAY out of league for a lvl 4 char. Even if it only does massive constitution damage and is not an actual death effect, if you can just touch somebody 3 or 4 times, this is way to powerful. The hail glove is pretty powerful too, but compared to something similar (fireball, wizard level 5, 5d6 dmg) it is more in line than the other things.
The cloak seems the most reasonable with a crafting cost of 1800 for an equivalent item (unlimited vanish)