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4-06 The Green Market


Pathfinder Society GM Discussion

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Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Saint Caleth wrote:
a paladin with no deity written on their sheet is legal

No one here is saying otherwise.

Qadira ***** RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

AdAstraGames wrote:
Technically, she is a Paladin of the abstract ideals of Good and Law and gets her powers from there - she is also a lay worshipper (rather than empowered communicant) of Pharasma.

I understand that Pharasma is portrayed as a nice girl every time the PCs see her or her clerics, in her "undead are bad" mien.

But what would your opinion be, if some other player said that, but replaced the last word with "Asmodeus" or "Urgathoa"?

Do lay worshippers of a god need to be within one step on the alignment scale?

--

Back to the Green Market:

Jim did you have this scenario in mind when you wrote "Golden Serpent"? Is there a collection of Color Noun scenarios featuring the Foxgloves?

Andoran *****

Jiggy wrote:
Saint Caleth wrote:
a paladin with no deity written on their sheet is legal
No one here is saying otherwise.

Agreed, but in PFS, if you say you worship a deity, you must be within 1 step.

And to say you are a paladin and a lay worshiper of a deity you couldn't be a paladin of, makes absolutely zero sense as Paladins are the champions of their cause.

But hey, you want to buck the rules, you play at your own risk of a GM calling you out on it.

*

As I said when the prior thread started on this...

I always ask - and if there's a problem, I play a different character. I am deliberately keeping two characters within the same sub-tier of each other in the "melee striker with some spell casting" niche specifically to have an easy option.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

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Chris Mortika wrote:
Jim did you have this scenario in mind when you wrote "Golden Serpent"? Is there a collection of Color Noun scenarios featuring the Foxgloves?

No I didn't actually. After the Golden Serpent was completed I was asked if I wanted to write for the other sister... and while I adore Sendeli and Zeeva equally, I didn't know that Zeeva was going to get her adventure quite so quickly after Sendeli. And the Green Market backstory as defined in the Guide to Korvosa really set up a lot of the parameters. Incidentally so did the old 3.5 module Gallery of Evil did for the Golden Serpent. The Golden Serpent is quite true to the continuity for those who care about such things. There was less defined about the Green Market.

That being said, I pushed for a third scenario but the thinking is that they had they their debut and should be allowed to simmer till next season.

Is there a formal plan for more scenarios featuring them? I think that depends on fan reaction and response. The scenarios appear to be doing well, but visible and vocal community support for them coming back in Season 5 would go a long way towards making that a reality. In other words, Mark is watching, so tell him you like the sisters if you do.

They certainly aren't as sinister as the Color Noun family, but they weren't meant to be. Sendeli particularly had a dash of Marion Ravenwood in her. I didn't want her to be like the 1970's Lois Lane (falling out of windows, just so Superman has an opportunity to save her), but I had to balance that against making her an GM-NPC who the PCs might feel eclipsed by, or wonder why she isn't helping them more. Same with Zeeva. I wanted the sisters to be smart and capable, but still also needing help. In Zeeva's case, her limited involvement is mandated by the Venture-Captain.

I thought one subplot that had nothing to do with the sisters was particularly interesting and would like to see continued (spoilered because its a faction mission thing);

Spoiler:
There's a definite Sczarni versus House Arkona subtext happening in both scenarios. In the Golden Serpent, the Sczarni become aware of how much House Arkona dominates the Sczarni of Korvosa. In the Green Market, they're starting to make a careful move. That was 100% me. I'd love to see that gradually build into a future scenario(s), whether I write it or if it ever has anything to do with the Foxglove sisters. In my mind, if the Sczarni are a large Inner Sea criminal organization, they don't want to be the puppets of evil spirits. I think there is the beginnings of a meaningful conflict there and something special for the Sczarni faction.

Sorry if this was a rambling post! It was weird, I was writing each paragraph separately a few sentences at a time!

Shadow Lodge ****

Andrew Christian wrote:


And to say you are a paladin and a lay worshiper of a deity you couldn't be a paladin of, makes absolutely zero sense as Paladins are the champions of their cause.

But hey, you want to buck the rules, you play at your own risk of a GM calling you out on it.

Meet midwife Palarade d'Amor:

She is a shinning paladin of all that is lawful and good. She attends services of Pharasma and even offers prayers to Pharasma when doing her day job (being a midwife). She does not dedicate herself to Pharasma because Pharasma would let an infant die if it was so ordained, however if asked what god she followed, she would certainly answer Pharasma, even though she disagrees with enough of Pharasma's tenants to not be considered a worshiper.

---
Is this character "bucking the rules?" Would you object to it at your table?

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Lieutenant, Australia—Melbourne aka KestlerGunner

Possible futures:

Given that Zeeva Foxglove has had multiple powerful hauntings/tragedies affect her throughout her life, she's a witch, and she owes the Pathfinder Society a favour, I'd love to see Aram Zey employ her as a Medium. Perhaps as the Society's equivalent to the BPRD's Johann Krauss?

I see Sendeli as too light-hearted to willingly enter the darker world of the adventuring business. She seems to want to live in the 'mundane' world, if anything.

*

Pirate Rob wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:


And to say you are a paladin and a lay worshiper of a deity you couldn't be a paladin of, makes absolutely zero sense as Paladins are the champions of their cause.

But hey, you want to buck the rules, you play at your own risk of a GM calling you out on it.

Meet midwife Palarade d'Amor:

She is a shinning paladin of all that is lawful and good. She attends services of Pharasma and even offers prayers to Pharasma when doing her day job (being a midwife). She does not dedicate herself to Pharasma because Pharasma would let an infant die if it was so ordained, however if asked what god she followed, she would certainly answer Pharasma, even though she disagrees with enough of Pharasma's tenants to not be considered a worshiper.

---
Is this character "bucking the rules?" Would you object to it at your table?

My Paladin who is a lay worshipper of Pharasma is fairly close to this.

She works as a midwife (but I don't take a job roll for it, because I really can't afford the skill points, and already have 2 ranks in Perform (dance) for a job roll) because she venerates Pharasma as the Goddess of Childbirth. Her Lay on Hands Mercy is "Sickened" to help mothers with troubled pregnancies keep food down.

She managed to get ALMOST to 6th level without letting any non-animal/non-undead/non-Evil-outsider foe die when she could prevent it. This is a pretty impressive record for a PFS character when you think about it. She's got 17 charges left on her wand of Cure Light Wounds; more than 2/3 of the charges she's used have been to stabilize downed foes.

A good chunk of those times, I've also had a short scene where the character tries to get her saved charges to reflect on how close they came to dying, and whether or not they'd like to consider changing their moral and spiritual ways.

She holds the attitude that if that person is truly called to Pharasma's court for judgement, the healing won't work. Or if Pharasma truly wants a particular soul reaped, She will guide the character's pickaxe to a well timed critical hit on an opponent at low HPs...

Qadira ***

Pirate Rob wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:


And to say you are a paladin and a lay worshiper of a deity you couldn't be a paladin of, makes absolutely zero sense as Paladins are the champions of their cause.

But hey, you want to buck the rules, you play at your own risk of a GM calling you out on it.

Meet midwife Palarade d'Amor:

She is a shinning paladin of all that is lawful and good. She attends services of Pharasma and even offers prayers to Pharasma when doing her day job (being a midwife). She does not dedicate herself to Pharasma because Pharasma would let an infant die if it was so ordained, however if asked what god she followed, she would certainly answer Pharasma, even though she disagrees with enough of Pharasma's tenants to not be considered a worshiper.

---
Is this character "bucking the rules?" Would you object to it at your table?

putting a different spin on this:

.
Meet Barrister "Demonbane" Impmaster:
He is a shinning paladin of all that is lawful and good. He attends services of Asmodeus and even offers prayers to the Lord of Law (Asmodeus) when doing his day job (being a lawyer in Cheliax courts). He does not dedicate himself to Asmodeus because Asmodeus would let a widow be evicted for non-payment of rent, however if asked what god he followed, he would certainly answer Asmodeus, even though he disagrees with enough of Asmodeus's tenants to not be considered a worshiper.

---
Is this character "bucking the rules?" Would you object to it at your table?

some judges would - because it is currently against the campaign rules. Me? I'm just a judge, I only enforce the laws ... ah, rules, I don't make them.

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Lieutenant, Australia—Melbourne aka KestlerGunner

A lawful good lawyer? Now you're REALLY stretching belief!

(If it was at my table, I'd allow both of these characters and I'd focus all my attention on if Impmaster or Haskell are behaving lawful good in session or not. Lawful good people don't decide what country or creed they're born into. Heck, I'd allow a lawful good Paladin of Rovagug if the said Paladin believed the world had been corrupted and Rovagug was a divine mechanism to clear the slate clean before existence could sprout anew, reborn untarnished and pure. If they are a beacon of good, who cares what giant floating head in the sky they pray to? Something like Zon-Kuthon or Lamashtu could be a hard ask though, there's little to spin towards LG in their doctrines.)

*****

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So I've been working on prepping this scenario tonight ..

I'm soooo not ashamed to say that I have a little crush on Jim Groves for writing such awesomely evil scenarios...

Mark -- if you're reading ... Please PLEASE PLEASE give us more awesome Jim Groves scenarios

steps into the background with her "I heart JG" sign at the ready

*** Venture-Lieutenant, Canada—Ontario aka Feegle

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Also, can we please stop filling this thread with Paladin alignment/deity discussion? People come here for help prepping this scenario - there are plenty of threads on the other topic to resurrect if you really feel the need.

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Captain, Canada—Quebec

Jeff Mahood wrote:
Also, can we please stop filling this thread with Paladin alignment/deity discussion? People come here for help prepping this scenario - there are plenty of threads on the other topic to resurrect if you really feel the need.

+1...

Cheliax ****

So to confirm, in the final fight, anyone without a fly speed can only move at half speed?

Shadow Lodge ****

Sorry about the diversion, I forgot where I was, I've flagged the paladin discussion as not belonging.
What are some good fruits to attack people with?

Cheliax ***

Mergy wrote:
So to confirm, in the final fight, anyone without a fly speed can only move at half speed?

I read it as all movement of any kind is half speed.

And gravity dependent effects are more amusing than useful (create pit anyone?)

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

ZomB wrote:
Mergy wrote:
So to confirm, in the final fight, anyone without a fly speed can only move at half speed?

I read it as all movement of any kind is half speed.

And gravity dependent effects are more amusing than useful (create pit anyone?)

I concur. Fortunately the sorcerer with create pit is earlier in the adventure and on the Material Plane.

And for anyone tuning in late, the reason I don't know is that the actual plane changed in Development.

*********

Are people liking the treasure distribution? The inclusion of some different magic items?

Also, I drew on a lot of different core books and Bestiaries. I'm not pimping for praise, but is that going over okay? Someone is going to complain but it would be handy to hear if people like the broad inclusion of material.

Andoran *****

Yes, the treasure allocation and different magic items was fantastic.

Cheliax ***

Jim Groves wrote:
Also, I drew on a lot of different core books and Bestiaries. I'm not pimping for praise, but is that going over okay? Someone is going to complain but it would be handy to hear if people like the broad inclusion of material.

I like the distribution, and it should be run several times this weekend so expect feedback next week. It makes a nice change from the human focussed opponents especially as they all make sense story wise.

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Lieutenant, Australia—Melbourne aka KestlerGunner

ZomB wrote:
It makes a nice change from the human focussed opponents especially as they all make sense story wise.

And also human-hunting rangers with human bane weaponry is so horrifically de rigueur nowadays.

*

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The manifestation of the haunt is not 100% clear to me. Produce begins to move about during the surprise round and then for another full-round after (unless it is intended that a standard is used during the surprise round and then during round 1, leaving a move action). That's not so much an issue because the creatures can't attack until round 2, no matter how action economy works.

What confuses me is how channel positive energy effects the haunt and animated creatures. If a PC is able to deal sufficient damage before initiative 10 during the surprise round then the haunt is neutralized, great! However, if this doesn't happen then we go into "positive energy damage dealt to the haunt is spread evenly across all three animated creatures" mode. I can't tell if the haunt is included as one of the creatures damaged, or if positive energy damage after initiative 10 in the surprise round and before the animated creatures fully manifest only deals damaged to the creatures and not the haunt.

I know I'm over thinking this, and for that I'm sorry =/

*

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Also, the Fascinating Gaze ability is giving me trouble. It is explicitly called out that the scarecrows don't cause fascination to be broken unless they attack, but how about that shambling mound that is coming to give you a hug?

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

There were some Development changes here, so that's why I may sound less certain.

xebeche wrote:
The manifestation of the haunt is not 100% clear to me. Produce begins to move about during the surprise round and then for another full-round after (unless it is intended that a standard is used during the surprise round and then during round 1, leaving a move action). That's not so much an issue because the creatures can't attack until round 2, no matter how action economy works.

This is a reasonable approach. Consider that monster summoning takes one full round, I think the intent here is to be consistent with that.. and how you broke it down to encompass a surprise round is fair, consistent, and balanced.

xebeche wrote:

What confuses me is how channel positive energy effects the haunt and animated creatures. If a PC is able to deal sufficient damage before initiative 10 during the surprise round then the haunt is neutralized, great! However, if this doesn't happen then we go into "positive energy damage dealt to the haunt is spread evenly across all three animated creatures" mode. I can't tell if the haunt is included as one of the creatures damaged, or if positive energy damage after initiative 10 in the surprise round and before the animated creatures fully manifest only deals damaged to the creatures and not the haunt.

I know I'm over thinking this, and for that I'm sorry =/

No, no, I think is a good question.

I read this a couple times and tried to parse the language, and also considered how I would interpret it.

The Green Market wrote:
From the time the haunt activates to when the possessed creatures manifest takes 1 full round, during which time any positive energy damage dealt to the haunt is spread evenly across all three animated creatures. At the end of this round, however, any positive energy damage against the haunt affects only the haunt and deals no damage to the animated creatures.

My take on it is this: It does not say the positive energy is damage is ALSO distributed evenly across all three animated creatures. So I read that the damage is distributed evenly across all three animated creatures INSTEAD of the haunt- in that first round round that the creatures are animating, mind you.

So just to be clear: I am saying that in the first round, the damage is applied evenly to the three animated creatures and not to the haunt itself. After the first round, the reverse is true- the damage is applied just to the haunt and not to the creatures.

Now I know from the Rules Forum that someone will want to approach this from a grammatical perspective. I need to improve as a technical writer, but I'm still learning. I usually first look at what is mechanically balanced and then fix my language. So I am going to give you what I feel is the intent.

This is a combat encounter and a haunt. Its a really special hybrid in that respect. The set-up allows you to shut this mess down like a haunt, but its also meant to be a fight. A lot of the fun and challenge and even some clues are hinged around the fight. The fun comes in where you realize that it is also a haunt and you can shut the fight down in an unusual way (channeling positive energy).

If, in the first round, you applied positive energy to both the haunt and all three creatures, in my opinion you're undercutting the encounter. Making it too easy to stop the fight before it starts. You want that fight to start. You want those monsters forming and shuffling around. The fact that you can make them turn back into produce after the fight begins is a fun haunt bonus. At the same time, you don't want to punish players who figure out that its a haunt early on in that first round... so you allow them to reduce the hit points of the monsters instead (in the first round).

That's a rambling complex answer! Let me know if it doesn't make sense!

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

xebeche wrote:
Also, the Fascinating Gaze ability is giving me trouble. It is explicitly called out that the scarecrows don't cause fascination to be broken unless they attack, but how about that shambling mound that is coming to give you a hug?

Not going to rush on this one. Giving it a proper think. Be back soon!

*

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Jim, I really appreciate your responses. This helps to clarify. Whenever there is any doubt I error in favor of the PCs, so, for now I'll run the scenario as if the shambling mound breaks the fascination (and because of this I may not have the scarecrows fascinate).

I'll run the full-round manifestation based on your statements here, which is how I read it originally.

Again, thanks for being so supportive of the community!

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

xebeche wrote:

Jim, I really appreciate your responses. This helps to clarify. Whenever there is any doubt I error in favor of the PCs, so, for now I'll run the scenario as if the shambling mound breaks the fascination (and because of this I may not have the scarecrows fascinate).

I'll run the full-round manifestation based on your statements here, which is how I read it originally.

Again, thanks for being so supportive of the community!

You're most welcome! I owe a great deal to the PFS community. This *is* where new authors get their start, and no "suck-up" intended, writers should be grateful to work with you guys.

Okay, let's talk about the scarecrows and gaze attacks:

This is all coming from the Core Rules, based on what I'm reading on the online PRD, just to cite my source.

1.) A gaze attack can manifest by looking at a creature's eyes, OR-
2.) The creature can specifically stare hard at one target and affect them specifically.

There are also rules concerning averting the gaze. All of the relevant stuff is under gaze attacks in the Universal Monster Rules.

3.) You're right. Fascinate can be interrupted by a threatening creature. To the degree that they can even get two saving throws in a round. A quick review of fascinate can be found here, under F for Fascinate

Here let's quote the passage specifically:

Core Rules Glossary Definition of Fascinate wrote:
Any potential threat, such as a hostile creature approaching, allows the fascinated creature a new saving throw against the fascinating effect. Any obvious threat, such as someone drawing a weapon, casting a spell, or aiming a ranged weapon at the fascinated creature, automatically breaks the effect.

Actually, your own decision is as good as any, Xebeche. You GMs have to make the tough calls. However, since you asked my advice I would say that you have to evaluate whether a shambling mound is acting as a potential threat or constitutes an obvious threat. And I would make that evaluation strictly in terms of the fascinated PC and not the entire party.

That is, if the shambling mound is a potential threat to the fascinated PC give them another saving throw. If the shambling mound is barreling down on the fascinated PC—end the effect completely.

This might seem like a waste of time, but consider, a fascinated fighter might well blow two Will saves in a row. The battle field is also quite roomy, so these large creatures can move around. A mound might move around such a fascinated target without really being aggressive towards them.

(The size of the map sucked for those using Flip-Mats, but made since at the time since there are so many big creatures in this adventure)

I think it comes down to whether you feel a creature is an obvious threat or not. Just because the shambling mounds are in the battle but not attacking the fascinated creature—they may only be potential threats. But by all means give them an extra saving throw, if they are.

Hope this helps!

*

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This all seems fair to me. I can see people arguing the other way, but as a GM I have to adjudicate and interpret the spirit of the fight, and it is clear that the scarecrow was intended to use their abilities. I'll meet my PCs part way and give them a new save for a potential threat, even if the shambling mound is not targeting them.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

xebeche wrote:
I'll meet my PCs part way and give them a new save for a potential threat, even if the shambling mound is not targeting them.

This is how I would do it. I can't see how they could be anything but a potential threat.

An obvious threat? Hmmmmm. depends. :D

Remember, it's your table! You are the Captain!

*

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I've completed my preparations and am sharing the PDFs I put together. I've made notes on my scenario print out, so these sheets are not complete in their overview of the encounters. Hopefully this does not violate any rules. I will gladly remove them if that is the case.

Haunt Creatures
Crysmals
The Market Spirit

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Lieutenant, Australia—Melbourne aka KestlerGunner

Dismissal:

Just an important note for GMs, my VC has had a bit of a dig and discovered that Galdron's oracle level 4 spell Dismissal has no effect on the PCs as they do not count as extraplanar when they are on the Ethereal plane.

Extraplanar Subtype: This subtype is applied to any creature when it is on a plane other than its native plane. A creature that travels the planes can gain or lose this subtype as it goes from plane to plane. Monster entries assume that encounters with creatures take place on the Material Plane, and every creature whose native plane is not the Material Plane has the extraplanar subtype (but would not have it when on its home plane). Every extraplanar creature in this book has a home plane mentioned in its description. Creatures not labeled as extraplanar are natives of the Material Plane, and they gain the extraplanar subtype if they leave the Material Plane. No creature has the extraplanar subtype when it is on a transitive plane, such as the Astral Plane, the Ethereal Plane, or the Plane of Shadow.

*****

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well ... hopefully this works .. but here is my version of the green market

Andoran *****

Very nice

Silver Crusade **

xebeche wrote:

I've completed my preparations and am sharing the PDFs I put together. I've made notes on my scenario print out, so these sheets are not complete in their overview of the encounters. Hopefully this does not violate any rules. I will gladly remove them if that is the case.

Haunt Creatures
Crysmals
The Market Spirit

Thank you for this. However your Power Attacks are off, since they have a higher BAB they get an additional -1 on attack and +2 on Damage, the quick wood with the bite should be hitting for 2d6+16. Since the bite is 1.5 str.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

Purple Fluffy! This is awesome!

Sorry I didn't reply earlier, it was a busy deadline weekend.

This looks wonderful. Let me know how it goes/went!

Shameless plug: Murder's Mark shipped to subscribers today!

Cheliax ****

Ill_Made_Knight wrote:
xebeche wrote:

I've completed my preparations and am sharing the PDFs I put together. I've made notes on my scenario print out, so these sheets are not complete in their overview of the encounters. Hopefully this does not violate any rules. I will gladly remove them if that is the case.

Haunt Creatures
Crysmals
The Market Spirit

Thank you for this. However your Power Attacks are off, since they have a higher BAB they get an additional -1 on attack and +2 on Damage, the quick wood with the bite should be hitting for 2d6+16. Since the bite is 1.5 str.

Sorry, but the bite is certainly not 1.5x; that is only the case if the creature possesses no other natural attacks (which it does). Even if it only attacks with the bite, it can't use 1.5xSTR.

Silver Crusade **

Mergy, please point out your logic with rules.

Cheliax ***

Here you go:

Natural Attacks (From the Bestiary, Universal Monster Rules)

Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon). These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature's full base attack bonus and add the creature's full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature's base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature's full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type.

Some creatures treat one or more of their attacks differently, such as dragons, which always receive 1-1/2 times their Strength bonus on damage rolls with their bite attack. These exceptions are noted in the creature's description.

(End quote)

So Mergy is right; 1xStr on the quickwood's bite.

Cheliax ****

Thanks Ninjaiguana.

Andoran ***

Great job on useful treasure in the items found for this scenario, Groves. Partially charged wands and unique items open up options that fame alone can not.

I had a ton of fun playing this scenario, as my blood pig coach got to tell everyone about the importance of Korvosa as the birthplace of blood pig. Shortly after that, his veteran blood pig familiar, Jubalani, sees a delicious monster made out of free fruit and had to go charging across the market after it. While two legged members of the party were distracted dealing with some scarecrows, Jubalani noticed some "special" fruit, which after consuming, let him intimidate the plants into sacrificing the most tasty their companions to him.

Silver Crusade **

Thank you for pointing that out. I was under the presuppositions that all bites were 1.5 str, (primarily because I was prepping and preparing a scenario with dragons).

Taldor ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Philadelphia aka Iammars

So, I was looking over the Tier 8-9 Galdron as I prep for MEPACON, and I noticed that he gained a gaze attack. Just so I'm clear - corrupting gaze is something that you have to save against every round, right? Because holy crap that's a hard fight. I completely missed it my first time around.

Osirion ****

Iammars wrote:
So, I was looking over the Tier 8-9 Galdron as I prep for MEPACON, and I noticed that he gained a gaze attack. Just so I'm clear - corrupting gaze is something that you have to save against every round, right? Because holy crap that's a hard fight. I completely missed it my first time around.

Yeah, you have to save every round but the players can avert their gaze and take the 50% miss chance. Which sucks, but it's better than taking 2d10 a round or whatever. It only has a 30' range I think so spellcasters and archers will probably be ok. Though hopefully your elementals are smacking them around.

*** Venture-Lieutenant, Georgia—Atlanta aka Yiroep

Had a blast playing this and running it. Just some moments I thought I'd share...

When I played it (8-9 subtier):
We were a party of 4 levels 6, 7 (pre-gen), 8, and 9, and we barely scraped by (as it should have been since we played up). We had a few brushes with death with the BBEG but focused-fire on him which ended the battle (to our surprise!). Our pre-gen samurai dished out some nice damage, and our two wizards did a great job keeping things at bay.

The crysmals were DAMN tough for us, and we had to avoid part of it by placing down klars. I feel that this part should have been scaled for 4 players, as 8 is a lot of them for 4 people to handle (maybe have 6 instead of 8).

The tree was hilarious with the 60 ft. reach, and I loved the fruit and veggies as loot.

We actually destroyed the haunt by dealing positive energy damage while the monsters were there as opposed to just beating up the monsters.

Enemies with Create Pit! That's awesome!

When I ran it (5-6 subtier):
It was a party of 7 (had a minor logistical snafu that lead to a 7 player table). I had a player try to lie to the customers of the market to get them to leave, so I had him roll a Will save vs. the market for the "suggestion" for him to leave. He actually failed, so I only had his character sit out of the market for like a minute. It added to the strangeness of the marketplace itself. I had several experienced players, and a lot of them were questioning what exactly was going on in the market until the Shoanti lady explained some of it.

I made the Resist Energy (Fire) potions as cucumbers, which leaded to some hilarious moments later about "deep throating" cucumbers.

We also had scarecrows using gaze attacks from inside an aqueous orb since they had no chance to escape aside from rolling natural 20's.

The crysmals were a joke for this party. I feel there should have been more for the 5-6 subtier, and as well as the scaling for 4 players (see above 8-9 subtier playthrough).

Was an absolute blast, although I'm not sure how much they enjoyed the final battle as 3 of them failed a save vs. a sound burst on the first round. The zen archer and wizard throwing lightning bolts ended it pretty quickly, though (because the BBEG's reflex save is awful, failing both times against the lightning bolt). The pre-gen Kyra also ended up rolling 33 on her 6d6 channel (3 away from max!) which kept everyone up a lot longer.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

Prepping this for a potential run this weekend. I assume that anyone in this thread knows their might be spoilers, so I'm not going to tag my comments.

The market exists on a raised mound of hard, packed earth and some of the stalls have wood floors. How is Narris Devane supposed to use entangle without the benefit of qualifying plants except in the small park-like area in the north?

Cheliax ****

Bob: It's a greengrocer. There should be no shortage of foliage, seeing as a lot of plants (potatoes for example) continue growing even after being plucked.

Pumpkins grow vines, potatoes grow thick roots, etc.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

That seems like a stretch for purposes of the spell. I expect the plants in the market are there for sale and not likely to have long or excessive vines and roots hanging off of them.

Paizo Employee ** Developer

Bob Jonquet wrote:
That seems like a stretch for purposes of the spell. I expect the plants in the market are there for sale and not likely to have long or excessive vines and roots hanging off of them.

They grow with magic that makes their vines and tendrils and roots stretch out to be longer than they were before.

Cheliax ****

If you like, say that there are potted plants for sale as well. I wouldn't have any problems with pumpkin vines, however.


You can't explain magic! It's magic! :-) I want to give shout outs to everyone on this thread and Jim Groves, I'm running this tonight and this thread has cleared up several things and will really make me look smart tonight lol. The monster templates alerady made are also handy, though we've all been pretty gun shy about playing high lately. That way lies death! Thanks again all.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

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Sheila Wayne wrote:
You can't explain magic! It's magic! :-) I want to give shout outs to everyone on this thread and Jim Groves, I'm running this tonight and this thread has cleared up several things and will really make me look smart tonight lol. The monster templates alerady made are also handy, though we've all been pretty gun shy about playing high lately. That way lies death! Thanks again all.

Thanks Sheila! Glad we could help!

Hope you have fun! If you feel like reviewing it and tossing down a couple stars, I certainly wouldn't object! (You don't have to though, and only what you think is fair)

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