Is it viable to play an AP once every 4-6 weeks?


Pathfinder Adventure Path General Discussion


My group is playing Pathfinder Society right now but I think we've gained enough critical mass (and players) that I could run an AP. Also, some of my players tell me they like PFS, but they'd prefer an AP, so I'm entertaining the idea.

About my group: We play only once every 4-6 weeks and my group size fluctuates between 3-7 players (with the rare last minute cancelation). In past campaigns (different players 20 years ago), I find that players don't remember important details when there's that much time between sessions (especially if they miss a session). For example, I asked one of my (current) players "what is your favorite scenario?", and she said it was awesome but couldn't remember exactly what happened (the session was only 4 months ago). This leads me to believe stateless gaming is the way to go.

Also, when you have fluctuating players, if you bother to write custom storylines, if that player misses the session it either stops the campaign or you all of the work you did is wasted.

I find that AP are much more work for the GM up front (compared to scenarios) and that if the campaign fizzles, the GM has lost dozens of hours of work for nothing. With scenarios I've only spent a few hours, and I can just run the scenario at a convention, no loss.

My philosophy is that I'd rather play once per month with whoever is available, rather than once every 2-3 months with everyone.

If key players are missing or not enough people can attend, we'd play PFS.

Am I crazy to entertain the idea of starting an AP? Can this work or am I just dooming myself to wasting dozens of hours of recreational time better spent doing something else? I need a second opinion on this.


How long can you make your sessions?

I probably wouldn't bother with an adventure path that only played 4 hours per month, say, but 8 hours per month would probably work.


Hey Chris.

From 7pm to around 12am on Saturday nights. So around 5 hours, maybe a bit more to finish something up.

The Exchange

In one game I play the gm mails a brief summary of what happened the day before the game.

He also occasionally sends out a fluff email about the npcs we travel with, or other reactions to the things we do.

We try to play every week, but its a great reminder and often very humorous.


Jason S wrote:

Hey Chris.

From 7pm to around 12am on Saturday nights. So around 5 hours, maybe a bit more to finish something up.

Personally, I think that would be a bit slow, but maybe you can make it work. My current Carrion Crown game is about 3 hours every two or three weeks, and it's been feasible so far but it's a pretty casual game without a lot of heavy-duty roleplaying.


GeneticDrift wrote:
He also occasionally sends out a fluff email about the npcs we travel with, or other reactions to the things we do.

I don't have the time for that, and would ask my players to handle that.

Playing once a week is very different than every 4-6 weeks. Everything is fresh in your mind. After 6-10 weeks... not so much.


We're playing once every 4-5 weeks, about 5 hours for each session as well, and it goes fine for us.


We play about once a month, and are in our second adventure path. Preparing for a game consists of reading the whole adventure path at least once before the campaign even begins. Then it's only a question of re-reading the parts you think your group will accomplish during the next session. I'll usually print up a few maps, a few monster/NPC stats, and put down on paper important info as to not forget this during the game.

After each game, I usually prepare a 'Dungeon Stats' sheet which gives the players their XP, critical hits, player of the week and a section called "Story So Far...". In this section I summerize the game, including important information so the players don't forget it. Before playing the next session, I usually read the recap out loud to get the players back in the thick of it.

It sounds like a lot of work, but it isn't, really. Remember that you have an entore month to re-read about seven pages, print up two maps, a take a few notes. The 'Dungeon Stats' thing usually takes me fifteen minutes to make.

Ultradan


I have an AP campaign that I play in that I *WISH* were so frequent.

You have at least two good options:

A) Have the players take copious notes*, and be good about hinting or outright telling them what will be important later. (*This is what I do during my infrequent campaign... it is a LOT of work)

B) Dispense with guessing games and secrecy. Take a more "3rd person omniscient" approach to the unfolding metaplot, and let the players in on much more of the plot than you ordinarily would.

The fact is, unless your group are really terrible at limiting their own metagaming, secrecy doesn't actually add much to a campaign. It generally makes it hard to see the big picture. Everyone seems to intrinsically cling to the idea of revealing every fact about the story through meticulous roleplay, but honestly it doesn't add much besides GM effort.

If the group comes together after 4 weeks without a session; just tell them what's going on. Give them the scene as though they've just picked up the game, and tell them who is doing what and why. The "why" is often left out, but for this kind of on-and-off play, it can really bridge the gaps.

Also, set your players' expectations. Tell them that the plot will be railroady (unless you want something like Kingmaker which works for intermittent games for different reasons) and that you're not going to get bogged down with player-driven sidequests, because it is easier to recap events straight out of the book. Then, at the beginning of the session, you can literally flip through page by page and dump the relevant info on them.

In the end, though, there's only so much a GM can do. It's the players' responsibility to stay engaged in this kind of game. If you make that clear to them at the outset, and they're still buying in, then you might be ok.

Dark Archive

One of my players writes a session report. I'm so glad I don't have to do that myself!


the David wrote:
One of my players writes a session report. I'm so glad I don't have to do that myself!

I was doing that for our game, but I gave up. :-P


I think that general consensus (from other topics) is that AP takes about 150-200 hours to complete. So if you're ok with playing an AP for 3.5 years, it's viable.


With my group, we are playing Kingmaker nearly once per month (usually from 14:00 pm to midnight). After a little more than one year, we are almost at the end of book 4.


You could but if you mangaged to play through all 6 books I think you may be playing teh AP for around 8-9 years maybe. Our group gets through one book very 10 sessions whichs last for 3 hours just as a guestimate anyway.

Dark Archive

as long as you can run longer sessions, you should be fine. We play 10 times a year for a whole sunday, and this works fine for everyone.

I find it helps a lot if you send out a "WTF happened" mail in the week before the next session; my players generally respond with an email discussion and motivation is at peak level right when everyone gets together for the next session.


I was part of a group that could not meet more then once a month. We created a yahoo Group where we posted comments, reminders, treasure splits, and a couple of us posted game notes as well. The GM posted maps and notes in the file section as well as key NPC info. It helped quite alot.

On a side note: We also used this Yahoo Group to play out one-on-one role play like when my character wanted to research something. I went to the local church and the GM ran my encounter with the cleric as a side role play on the Yahoo Group. The others all had fun reading our posts and we did not use up valuable game time doing it.


Yes, but... it'll take a long time.

The group I'm playing in took 5.5 years of real time to get to about 13th level in Shackled City, and almost 4 years to get to the same level in Savage Tide. That's playing monthly, more or less, and not playing the last half-dozen or so levels, due to fatigue.

If the players will commit to note-taking and between game commentary/planning, I think you can get a lot done that way.

Liberty's Edge

I would be okay with this if these once per 4-6 week sessions were all day endevours (like 16 hours or so).

Playing 4 hours every 6 weeks would quickly lose my interest.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber

I think a 16-hour session is too much to ask of a GM.

I ran a three-scenario track at a recent convention, and ended up at the table for pretty much 14 hours straight. That was with a rather linear plot (Shades of Ice parts I-III), where there wasn't all that much room for player innovation. Even so, I spent a lot of time preparing for the session over the preceding couple of weeks, and still felt that I hadn't done enough.

For an AP, especially one where there are opportunities for the players to explore different parts of the storyline in just about any order (and to zip through or totally sidestep areas where you anticipate them spending a lot of time, or spend many hours following an interesting minor sidequest), you have to be prepared for a lot more than just the next few encounters you have anticipated.

I think it's hard enough to be well prepared for a 6-8 hour session; beyond that, you're going to be running a lot of things off the cuff.

Grand Lodge

I was in an AP which was similar to the OP. We met once a month, for 4-5 hours, and would have from 3-7 players show up. It was a pain because you would forget what you had learned the month (or more) earlier. Plus an inconsistent mix of characters led to encounters being trivial or overwhelming. Eventually, the DM decided to run a PFS game. It worked better for the gaming environment.


Yeah, not only can I not predict and plan for 16 hours, but I don't have that kind of time since I have a family. And the other guys are in the same situation (babies!).

I also find that people's attention spans fall off after about 5-6 hours anyway. In my youth, when we had mega sessions, I wish we had more frequent short sessions instead of trying for the weekend marathons. Quality > quantity.

I'm really surprised everyone is encouraging me to go forward. I was kind of hoping someone would shake me and say "Are you frickin' star raving mad?!?!?!".

As it turns out, I'm only getting strong enthusiasm from 2 players, votes for PFS from another 2 players, and apathy from the other 3 players, so I'll probably stick with PFS (for now) if that's the case. And have the discussion in person. I hate non-response!!


I've been running a RotR campaign on pretty much the same schedule (roughly 4-6 hours a meeting) since July 2010. I've added in a couple side quests of my own and plan to incorporate a module or two, as well, since I'm running it with the Medium XP track as opposed to the fast. Currently, we are about one-third of the way through Book 3, and my players are doing great with it.

Admittedly, one of my players does a phenomenal job of making journal entries from her character's perspective between every game, which really helps keep everyone up-to-date.

The only difference is that I've got four players solid in my game, and we have an agreement that the game does not get played unless all of us can be there. So far, it's been loads of fun!

Thus, yes, I'd say it can definitely be done!

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I run a Skull and Shackles game from 10 (really 11) until 5 or 6 PM once a month. Patience is a big virtue. I honestly wish I had the time to go fortnightly, but with a Weekly Kingmaker Game, a monthly Rise of the Runelords game, a monthly Jade Regent game I dare not.

It's an embarrassment of riches during this period of gaming in my life.

/Humblebrag.

Seriously though, 8 hours of a game session will get you about 1/3rd of a way through a book unless you add bits and bobs (which I am prone to do).


I run my Carrion Crown fairly frequently (for our group) about once a month, sometimes more sometimes less, for 4-6 hours. It's only over two timezones with 7-8 hours between.

Another game I have of Skull and Shackles is very infrequent as it's near impossible to find good times to play. (players in four timezones up to 16h apart). We've played maybe three-four times so far this year.

Both are through Fantasy Grounds and with good friends which is also why it doesn't die down as easily.

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Maps Subscriber

Every one of my games in on a monthly basis, and they are all APs. It can work, you just need your players to make an effort to remember what has happened. One of the best ways to do this is to have a note taker who is willing to spend a little time transcribing it to screen. I personally use Obsidian Portal for ours, and it works like a charm. The fact it is a wiki style site is even better as some of the other players are also involved and everyone reads it the day before and comes in with a fresh memory. I wish we had it for all our campaigns (some of which have been going for 5 years, STAP and AOW).

Anyway, I think your biggest issue is going to not be the "every four weeks" thing, but the 'non-constant group' thing.


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I run Kingmaker about once a month on average for my home group. Things I've learned:

* A quick recap at the beginning of the session is essential. I have one of my players make bullet-point notes of what happened, and the players themselves keep lists of people they meet and so on.
* Divide the AP into logical sections. Kingmaker, at least, is written in such a way that (at least so far) I can get get one book done in four 5-6 hour sessions, and each session feels kind of self-contained.
* Make the most of the time you have on a given night. Start when you say you'll start.
* Cut out the "fluff". For our Kingmaker AP, this has meant random encounters and kingdom building - which was fine, since only two players were interested in kingdom building anyway. I told them that I'm happy to build the kingdom electronically between sessions, or to have them come a little early and do it, but they didn't care about it that much. To compensate for this, I don't do XP - I just tell them when they level, based on how much of a given AP they've finished.


Toadkiller Dog wrote:
I think that general consensus (from other topics) is that AP takes about 150-200 hours to complete. So if you're ok with playing an AP for 3.5 years, it's viable.

Do I see a hidden message there? :D

Liberty's Edge

Noir le Lotus wrote:
With my group, we are playing Kingmaker nearly once per month (usually from 14:00 pm to midnight). After a little more than one year, we are almost at the end of book 4.

This is pretty much the schedule my game is on as well. Out of a total of 4 players, 2 would probably play every weekend if we could. The other 2 are juggling family and work obligations. We are also running Kingmaker and after about 18 months we are about halfway through the third AP.

To keep everyone involved between games I set up a wiki and award XP for contributions. For example if a player sets up a page about an NPC they met with a details about what they looked like and how they interacted they might gain about 3-5% of the total amount needed for their next level. A summary of a game session would be worth a bit more. In the future we have a reference that we can check (and update) when we're trying to remember whether they told off that centaur priestess or decided to play nice.(Having a list of NPCs you know is especially helpful in the Kingmaker AP, since you have to recruit for various leadership positions.)


sanwah68 wrote:
Every one of my games in on a monthly basis, and they are all APs. It can work, you just need your players to make an effort to remember what has happened. One of the best ways to do this is to have a note taker who is willing to spend a little time transcribing it to screen. I personally use Obsidian Portal for ours, and it works like a charm. The fact it is a wiki style site is even better as some of the other players are also involved and everyone reads it the day before and comes in with a fresh memory. I wish we had it for all our campaigns (some of which have been going for 5 years, STAP and AOW).

Thanks for mentioning Obsidian Portal, I'm going to check that out and I think it will help.

Thanks everyone for your input so far.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Definitely advocate a player keeping a journal for the party, and as GM I've also taken to writing brief summaries to read to the players at the start of session as well. A lot of times just a few quick words can jog memories easily.


Icyshadow wrote:
Toadkiller Dog wrote:
I think that general consensus (from other topics) is that AP takes about 150-200 hours to complete. So if you're ok with playing an AP for 3.5 years, it's viable.
Do I see a hidden message there? :D

Pardon me? :D

I really don't know what are you talking about. :D


We do exactly that. Saturday, about once a month for 5 hours. Though we play a bit of an accelerated game, I like to level them once an adventure as a group (so a level every month), and I remove a lot of the "junk" from the adventures. We usually get through an adventure per 2 sessions. If we went slower, I could see it getting boring, players want to feel they accomplished soemthing by the end of the night, so if I have to remove some minions from some rooms, or delete a side quest, thats what I generally do.


Just a quick update. You guys have convinced me to try an AP for a monthly game, and we're starting Curse of the Crimson Throne in February.

Hopefully my players put some effort in (with my help of course), and their PCs aren't as 2-dimensional as their PFS PCs. I'm still worried about player commitment as well as willing to put extra time into the AP (compared to PFS), but that's a problem with my group, not the nature of APs necessarily.


Jason S wrote:

I'm still worried about player commitment as well as willing to put extra time into the AP (compared to PFS), but that's a problem with my group, not the nature of APs necessarily.

I definitely agree that a lack of commitment is more deleterious to completing an AP than playing infrequently!


Is it viable to play an AP once every 4-6 weeks?

I hope it is because this is what we do. :)

Grand Lodge

Hey Jason.
I just wrapped up CotCT, the only AP I have finished so far.
We played bi-weekly 2-3 hour sessions and it took us 3 and 1/2 years.
The group is rules-light (tho we started under 3.5) and prone to tangents.

As others have said, the main thing to do is to read the whole thing between now and February (tho you can skip stat blocks and stuff). Then you only need to prep the encounters you feel your group will do in the next session. The GM Reference threads are also required reading ahead of each Book.

The benefit of running one of the older APs is the amount of community support available. I found Steev42's conversions quite helpful, but you should check them out prior to running as there are a few that are out of kilter.

Feel free to PM or email me if you have questions or want input (my old email, not the VC one).


Thanks Neil.

Yes, I should read some of the community support. And I should read all 6 books before starting. And I can't help but to customize everything and rewrite some material. However... fizzled campaigns make me nervous about doing this, because it's going to take between 60-100 hours, and it's mostly startup effort.

We did PFS last year because I wasn't sure of their commitment. Now that I'm sure they'll show up, I'm not 100% certain they're the type of players that put in a little bit extra work (mostly at the start) to appreciate an AP. Mostly it has to do with character generation, do they want generic PCs with no personality (like in PFS) or would they like the campaign to revolve around them? Maybe they are "I just want to show up and play" players, I don't know. It also takes a certain kind of player to be able to pickup things after a month.

OK, I'm derailing my own thread now. I guess I just have to try and find out.


Sorry, I have to disagreeing with reading all the modules.

Reasons why:

1 - Thats a lot of reading, like a lot
2 - All that effort is taking away from what you really should be doing, making sure your next adventure is fun, engaging, varied and interesting for your players
3 - Most paths rail road a bit, and have lots of content players may never see. Your players will definitely want to change/modify things from what the paths assume. So your going to be reading things that either won't apply to your campaign, or forcing your players to do something they don't want to do "cause I read it, now you have to do it".
4 - And this one is a biggie, the back story doesnt matter as much to players as paizo generally thinks (in my experience). So for example you have these grand plots, starting 1000 years ago, with major players in history plotting and backstabbing eachother and setting your events into motion and most of it has nothing to do with the adventure they wrote. I've ran about 4 adventure paths, and try as I might, most of the background info has been a total waste for most of my players, its hard enough to even get them to know about it, let alone care about it.

My advice is read the first module, modify it until your sure your players will like it, then read the summary of the next module and consider how you will get them to link. Dont worry about the rest until you get there (if you get there)

(PS Perfect example, Im running skull and shackles, all over the background is Cheliax this, Cheliax that. The main bad guy is a traitor, allied with cheliax. But if you read the adventures theres almost no way to find this out, theres almost no encounters with cheliax and... most importantly many players won't care that the bad guy is allied with cheliax, they care about interesting encounters and cool scenarios in which they get to find and defeat the bad guy.)

Of course this is all just my and my 2 groups two cents. Other players may have totally different views of what they value

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