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Ironskin Monk + ???


Advice

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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Looking at putting together an Ironskin Monk, and was wondering what other archetype stacks with it.

For the purposes of this question, eliminate racial restrictions.

Anyone know?


I'm not sure, but list what vanilla Monk abilities the Ironskin Monk replaces with new ones.

Judging from that you can see which archetypes stack with it. Hope that Qinggong Monk is available, it's a good archetype.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

List of altered/lost abilities:

1) AC bonus ability and the ability to add his Wisdom bonus to his AC.

2) Bonus Feat list.

3) Evasion.

4) High jump.

5) Fast Movement.

6) Slow Fall.

7) Improved Evasion.

8) Tongue of the Sun and Moon.

9) Perfect Self


Hungry Ghost Monk or Monk of the Healing Hand seem to work (I'd go with the Hungry Ghost Monk personally, lots of good benefits).

It's sad that the Monk doesn't gain armor proficiency with this archetype, but that's really not a problem if you can get the armor check penalty down to 0. I'd definitely get 'brawler' armor if you're going for unarmed strike damage.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Yeah, the only thing lost with the Ironskin monk wearing armor, is flurry.

If there was a way to replace that, well, that would be awesome.


Drunken Master also stacks with Ironskin Monk.

That seems like a scary image if I made a Holstaur Ironskin Drunken Master.

Remove the alignment restriction, and I could roll one of my characters from a story I wrote.
Though said character is more of an Oni-Spawn Tiefling rather than anything else mentioned.


You can also take monk vows as well (lets face it, Flurry is overrated anyway...two-weapon fighting is where it's at :P )

Vow of silence
Vow of Truth
Vow of Fasting

these are the vows that are easiest to maintain in my opinion, and honestly open up a lot of flavor. For example, a Hungry Ghost Monk doesn't really NEED to speak...he can just 'smile evilly' at the person he is about to kill (trust me...a 'smiling hobgoblin is an intimidating sight). Or, if you like, you can always just tell the truth and say 'I am about to kill you, I hope you enjoy it' or something ;)

sadly, I don't see any archetype that lets us go with ironskin monk and replaces flurry :(


Duskblade, it was said in the opening post that "let us assume the racial restrictions are removed", which I am more than okay with.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

There are ways to remove some of the alignment restrictions, for all archetypes.

Also, the DM is fast and loose with restricting racial archetypes.

Meaning, unless it works directly with a racial trait, any race can take it.


also, regarding the 'drunken master' you'll have to see if 'drunken resilience' stacks with 'tough as nails' (as a DM, i would allow it, but meh, who knows).

DR 8/- is pretty good...drunken master or Hungry Ghost have my vote


blackbloodtroll wrote:

There are ways to remove some of the alignment restrictions, for all archetypes.

Also, the DM is fast and loose with restricting racial archetypes.

Meaning, unless it works directly with a racial trait, any race can take it.

Give me your DM. I'm tired of my mind producing characters belonging to my homebrew races but never getting chances to play them.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Ah. Both of my DMs do not allow homebrew races.


In that case, you might as well keep them :P


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Reflavored races are welcome.


You mean taking an existing one and shifting the backstory?

I did that with a variation of Gray Elves once, but then I made my own Elves out of them.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Tieflings and Aasimar are the easiest to get the look, attributes, and feel you want.


I know, I've been told that before.

Wait, now that you mention that. Give me that DM of yours :D


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I think I told you that.


But what exactly counts as reflavor? Can I play a character with Tiefling or Aasimar stats but call it something else?

Also, wouldn't the Brother of the Seal Prestige Class somewhat synergize with some of the Ironskin Monk's abilities, at least in regards to Sunder?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

A Zweihänder is the Greatsword, mechanically speaking.

This is a small example of reflavoring.


That didn't really say if "Tiefling (or Aasimar) = Holstaur", though. XD

And yeah, I'm still thinking about the Brother of the Seal synergy. Awesome Blow is for another thread.

Silver Crusade

I think Quiggong would work but so far for 12th level and up.. as most other things would be replaced with the Hungry Ghost/ Ironskin monk Combo... Though Temple Swords are pretty awesome and Mithral Chainshirt means not really caring, Heck you generally come out ahead and end up with a very reliable resilient fighter type.. TWF line and you'll be fine...especially with Brawling on your armor


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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Yes, whole new name and history could be acceptable.


Yeah, I want your DM.

Unless a miracle happens and mine decides that reflavouring is okay.

Also, any on-topic things that still need to be discussed or did we find all archetypes?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I wish there was more.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Is there a way to make this archetype work, without focusing on flurry?

Going light armor, with the Brawling enchantment, will create a higher AC, heavier hitting PC, with less need to pump wisdom.

I like that idea, but the loss of Flurry could hurt.

Maybe, a Mithral Armored Coat with the Brawling enchantment to quickly go unarmored?

Silver Crusade

Not really If you go unarmed it's literally a difference of +1 to hit and you end up better on damage and AC anyway, If you go weapon user and TWF, using your UA as offhand and say... use Temple sword you you would be perfectly fine, Heck take the Armor Expert Trait and Get Mithral Breastplate, and go to town.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well, you cannot flurry in armor.

If you choose to wear armor with this archetype, you might as well go full throttle, and use a shield as well.

Silver Crusade

Sure if you want.. Sword and Board it... And like I meant to say Flurry doesn't matter, it is a difference of +1, eventually down the line you will benefit much more from the TWF line in damage and hit than flurry, take a combat style and really turn up the damage

Heck and if for some reason your ever unarmored your still pretty okay


meh, flurry can be easily supplemented by TWF with unarmed strikes.

I mean, you get 6 attacks (7 if hasted), and considering the accuracy of your strikes along with damage, you should be able to mow down almost anything.

Between AOMF, Monk's Robes, the double slice feat, and Brawler Armor (not to mention any method you can think of for increasing your size and such), you basically have a monster for a damage dealer.

you can also get some items in the Ultimate Equipment that add elemental properties to your fists as well (one was a glove that gave your unarmed strikes the 'corrosive' ability, and the other was an amulet that gave your fists flame and counted them as adamantine for overcoming DR)

Those would be 'cheap ways' of enhancing your strikes until you can afford that expensive AOMF.

Also, if you still want MORE damage, consider the following:

Hammer the Gap, Power Attack, and Desperate Battler.

Granted, this 'entire build' would cost you about 7 feats (double slice, two-weapon fighting tree, and the above mentioned feats), but you would be dishing out immense damage with an INSANE amount of accuracy.

Toughness would also be another good consideration (d8 for melee is still kinda rough, so every point helps), and Combat Reflexes and Deflect Arrows are both solid options too.


Where are Hammer the Gap and Desperate Battler from?

And more importantly, what exactly do they do to help here?


Hammer the Gap is from Ultimate Combat - When you take a full-attack action, each consecutive hit against the same opponent deals extra damage equal to the number of previous consecutive hits you have made against that opponent this turn. This damage is multiplied on a critical hit.

so with two-weapon fighting and haste...on your second hit you get +1 damage...third hit gives you +2 damage...fourth hit gives you +3 damage and so on... ;)

Desperate Battler is from Inner Sea World Guide - When no ally is within 10 feet of you and you are not receiving benefits from the aid another action, you gain a +1 morale bonus on melee attack and damage rolls.

You pretty much represent the 'lone warrior' archetype with this one...which can make for some cool roleplay aspects.

"Get away from me! I fight better without you!" :P


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well, the Unfit Hobgoblin alternate racial trait provides proficiency with one martial weapon.

Silver Crusade

And to top it all off... Barkskin for free.. at 12th level.. for a +9 to AC from Nat armor alone.. So your tough and Quick and strong all in one, dishin out damage, at that point your swingin so many times if you used Shortswords r anything with a crit range, you getting Ki back once a round or healing 12 damage...either or( If unarmed your also tossing out free possible Staggers which stop Full attacks on you)


Drunken Master, Ki Mystic, Hungry Ghost Monk, Qinggong Monk and Treetop Monk are the only archetypes which stack with the Ironskin Monk assuming no racial restrictions.

Among those Drunken Master would probably be my choice.

Qinggong Monk is the only archetype able to stack with the any other + Ironskin Monk as well.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Could you not stack Qinggong Monk and Drunken Master on top of ironskin Monk?


I explicitly said you can use it with any other + ironskin.

You can stack Qinggong on top of anything, as long as you don't replace something which any other archetype replaces.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Sorry if I missed that.

How do you think a non-flurry build should be done?


I'd use MoMS to be honest, so I don't know how you'd do it with Ironskin. Haven't really looked at it too much as it seemed lackluster, so cannot help you there.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

MoMS loses more to armor. Ironskin Monk only loses flurry.


Wait, Ironskin doesn't lose Flurry.

Also my sort-of related thread is dead. XD


blackbloodtroll wrote:
MoMS loses more to armor. Ironskin Monk only loses flurry.

Ironskin gets +6 natural armor @ lvl 20. MoMS and ordinary monks gets +5 AC + Wis bonus AC @ lvl 20. How do they "lose more to armor"?

And as Icyshadow said, Ironskin does not lose flurry evidently.

Qadira RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6, Contributor

When wearing armor, an ironskin monk loses less than a normal monk does. That's what blackbloodtroll said and meant.


Good point there.


Will lose more stuff if you wear more than light armor though.


What does an Ironskin Monk lose if he/she wears Medium Armor?

Also, how good is an Ironskin Qinggong Monk / Brother of the Seal?
I asked in this question another thread but my thread necromancy failed.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

As long as he is proficient, an Ironskin Monk still only loses Flurry whilst wearing medium armor.

If you are going into Brother of the Seal, I would not wear armor.

Sczarni

Hey don't forget aasimars can literally have iron skin too... so that's always a option to help increase things.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

That's not what is being discussed.

Although, a Human or Aasimar can take the archetype with the Racial Heritage feat.

Sczarni

wow, way to be a wet blanket... you do know that a clever chap has made a nice table of what archetypes stack with what....

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk#TOC-Table-Monk-Archetypes -Alternate-Class-Features I think is the link, my firewall at work doesn't let me go to d20pfsrd.com so no clue if it's actually it, but seems right.

For someone that's looking to put together a iron skin monk, literally making your skin iron with the aasimar racial feats seems like a pretty cool idea.

Your OP just stated your putting it together. If you only want specific answers, make more specific questions, or just PM those you want answering.

But hey, I put more effort into searching for what works with this archetype than I probably should of...

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