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Scribing spells from captured spellbooks


Pathfinder Society® General Discussion

Shadow Lodge ** Venture-Lieutenant, California—Silicon Valley aka JohnF

I've read the recent threads on scribing spells, and the PFS FAQ, and the referenced pages (219) in the Core Rule Book.

From that it seems pretty clear to me that if our party acquires a spellbook as part of the spoils of an adventure then a Wizard (or a magus) can, GM willing, attempt to copy spells from that spellbook into their own spellbook (before the end of the session) for just the cost of the necessary materials, in the same way one might be allowed to copy spells from the spellbook of a fellow adventurer.

But while I may see it that way, it isn't actually explicitly stated in the rules or the FAQ. While it is stated that you can copy a spell from a scroll found during the course of adventure, no similar mention is made of captured spellbooks.

As a result, some GMs will not permit a player to do this. I ran into just such a situation tonight. We had defeated the enemy wizard, and had found his spell book (which was actually necessary in order to complete a faction mission). I stated that I also wished to check the spellbook for any spells I could add to my own book (it turned out there were precisely two spells that I could learn; I was playing a Magus, so several of the spells weren't on my list). Our GM was fairly new to PFS, and wasn't sure how to handle this. One of the other players at the table, who is also a GM, insisted that this was not permitted; the only way I could learn any new spells would be to purchase (or find) scrolls and attempt to copy the spells from the scrolls. The additional cost of purchasing the scroll makes the total outlay significantly higher than just the cost of the materials needed for copying. (I am aware of the fact that it is also necessary to make a Spellcraft check to succesfully copy a spell; as these were at most 3rd-level spells, I have enough ranks in spellcraft that I couldn't actually fail the check).

So:

1) Am I right in believing it should be possible to learn spells this way?

2) If so, should the FAQ be updated to mention this possibility?

*

1) You can do that. The guy who was backseat DMing is wrong.

2) I'm pretty sure it is already in the FAQ

Sczarni *

When in doubt, read it yourself... you'll usually find it's much clearer than the person explaining how and why it doesn't work is extrapolating.

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Captain, Canada—Quebec

The FAQ talk about scrolls and ally spellbooks but not enemy spellbooks so I understand the confusion.

Quote:

How can wizards, witches, magi, and alchemists learn new spells or formulae?

Pages 219–220 in the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook discuss how to handle a wizard’s spellbook, but Pathfinder Society makes one adjustment to these rules: a wizard does not have to purchase a scroll found during the course of a scenario in order to copy that scroll into her spellbook. The wizard only needs to spend the time, succeed on the appropriate checks, and spend the amount of gold listed on the table on page 219 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. Keep in mind that the process of copying a spell from a magic scroll into a wizard’s spellbook removes the spell from the copied scroll, turning it into a blank piece of normal parchment. The normal rules for finding items during the course of a scenario are that they can be used during the scenario but must be purchased after the scenario in order to be kept. This clarification for wizards and their spellbooks is the singular exception to the gear rules. An alchemist can likewise copy spells from scrolls found during a scenario into his formula book as detailed on page 28 of the Advanced Player's Guide. Similarly, a witch PC's familiar can learn spells from another witch's familiar or from scrolls found during the course of a scenario, as detailed on page 68 of the Advanced Player's Guide. Magi follow the same rules in copying spells to their spellbooks as wizards in all ways save that they use the magus spell list to determine if they may learn a spell, instead of the sorcerer/wizard spell list. If a wizard, witch, magus, or alchemist PC is adventuring with another PC who could teach them a spell, those PCs may exchange spells on their own terms as long as they make the proper skill checks and their trading of arcane secrets does not interfere with the flow of the game, at the GM's discretion. If you don't find a scroll of a given spell during the course of an adventure, you have to buy the scroll to learn it. An NPC isn't just going to give you access to his spells for free, and purchasing a scroll of that spell represents the cost of gaining access to his spellbook. Any spell or formula learned must be accounted for on a scenario's Chronicle sheet in the "Conditions Gained" section.

The enemy spell book is counted in the loot and is usually part of the gold you get at the end so I personally let casters add the spells before the loot is sold (paying the scribing cost).

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Being able to copy spells out of a different spellbook is part of the Core Rules. PFS follows Core Rules unless explicitly contradicted in the Guide/FAQ. So unless someone can find a PFS rule stating that you cannot scribe from one spellbook into another, you can.

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Georgia—Atlanta aka CRobledo

Jiggy wrote:
Being able to copy spells out of a different spellbook is part of the Core Rules. PFS follows Core Rules unless explicitly contradicted in the Guide/FAQ. So unless someone can find a PFS rule stating that you cannot scribe from one spellbook into another, you can.

+1 t'a Jiggy

*

Building off of what Jiggy said:

Quote:
but Pathfinder Society makes one adjustment to these rules: a wizard does not have to purchase a scroll found during the course of a scenario in order to copy that scroll into her spellbook.

With the exception of not having to purchase a found scroll, spell scribing works EXACTLY as mentioned in the CRB. This includes scribing spells from found spellbooks.

Unfortunately, it's a little late for the OP now, but a good rule of thumb in the future is "if PFS doesn't specifically call it out as different, it isn't". I would hope at least one player at the table has a copy of PFSGtOP, so if it isn't in there, run it as if it's from the CRB.

Shadow Lodge ** Venture-Lieutenant, California—Silicon Valley aka JohnF

Sean H wrote:
Unfortunately, it's a little late for the OP now ...

Probably not. I noted at the time I was formally protesting the denial, and would expect the GM to sign off if I later returned with supporting evidence. I was hoping to find something in the FAQ, or at least a semi-official clarification in a posting from Mike or Mark.

Shadow Lodge ** Venture-Lieutenant, California—Silicon Valley aka JohnF

Sean H wrote:

Building off of what Jiggy said:

Quote:
but Pathfinder Society makes one adjustment to these rules: a wizard does not have to purchase a scroll found during the course of a scenario in order to copy that scroll into her spellbook.
With the exception of not having to purchase a found scroll, spell scribing works EXACTLY as mentioned in the CRB. This includes scribing spells from found spellbooks.

The problem is that the "adjustment/exception" you (and the FAQ) note isn't an exception - that's the normal way it works. If you find a scroll, you can (try to) scribe the spell from it into your spellbook.

Found scrolls are treated somewhat unusually in PFS - even if you use them during the scenario, they can still show up on a chronicle. Some GMs interpret the "exception" to be allowing an effect from scribing a scroll in-game to persist beyond the end of the scenario. Because scrolls are mentioned explicitly, they further rule that this only applies to scrolls, and not to found spellbooks. Scribing spells from another character's spellbook is also explicitly mentioned in the FAQ, so the fact that doing this works doesn't gainsay their interpretation.

I don't expect it to always be possible to do this - I'm perfectly happy with the GM ruling that we don't have the time to purchase the necessary materials, study the spellbook, and attempt to make the copy before we have to hand everything over to the Pathfinder Society. But that wasn't the case here; it's just the blanket "you can never do this" that I was protesting.

Andoran **

What gets me is the naughty wizard combatants who after being vanquished are discovered to have left their spellbooks at home, which means the poor wizard cant spend his hard earned gold to learn their tricks :)

Grand Lodge

We were looking at this the other week, and whilst you are required to make that spellcraft check you can take 10 on it. The things you learn.

Shadow Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Michigan—Alma

JohnF wrote:
The problem is that the "adjustment/exception" you (and the FAQ) note isn't an exception - that's the normal way it works. If you find a scroll, you can (try to) scribe the spell from it into your spellbook.

The adjustment/exception is the fact that there are rules in the core rule book that allow pcs to get spells by copying from an npc wizard's spellbook. That's been changed by the PFS rule that you have to buy the scroll. That is why that FAQ is there, to disallow pc's from purchasing the spell from an npc's spell book for quite a bit cheaper than purchasing a scroll of that spell.

*

JohnF wrote:
Sean H wrote:

Building off of what Jiggy said:

Quote:
but Pathfinder Society makes one adjustment to these rules: a wizard does not have to purchase a scroll found during the course of a scenario in order to copy that scroll into her spellbook.
With the exception of not having to purchase a found scroll, spell scribing works EXACTLY as mentioned in the CRB. This includes scribing spells from found spellbooks.

The problem is that the "adjustment/exception" you (and the FAQ) note isn't an exception - that's the normal way it works. If you find a scroll, you can (try to) scribe the spell from it into your spellbook.

I think you may misunderstand me. The exception isn't being able to scribe spells from scrolls, the exception is not needing to purchase the scroll, or own it, before scribing.

Which actually brings up an interesting question; how often do NPCs in scenarios actually have spellbooks? Is there a list of scenarios with wizards in them somewhere? I've played a couple dozen, and only seen an actual, bona-fide spellbook in two; City of Strangers Pt. II and Haunting of Hinoji.

Grand Lodge ****

Sean H wrote:
JohnF wrote:
Sean H wrote:

Building off of what Jiggy said:

Quote:
but Pathfinder Society makes one adjustment to these rules: a wizard does not have to purchase a scroll found during the course of a scenario in order to copy that scroll into her spellbook.
With the exception of not having to purchase a found scroll, spell scribing works EXACTLY as mentioned in the CRB. This includes scribing spells from found spellbooks.

The problem is that the "adjustment/exception" you (and the FAQ) note isn't an exception - that's the normal way it works. If you find a scroll, you can (try to) scribe the spell from it into your spellbook.

I think you may misunderstand me. The exception isn't being able to scribe spells from scrolls, the exception is not needing to purchase the scroll, or own it, before scribing.

Which actually brings up an interesting question; how often do NPCs in scenarios actually have spellbooks? Is there a list of scenarios with wizards in them somewhere? I've played a couple dozen, and only seen an actual, bona-fide spellbook in two; City of Strangers Pt. II and Haunting of Hinoji.

There are quite a few modules with spell books in them. The player really just needs to be pro-active and ask if there is one, and make sure they ask the GM that they would like to spend time with that spell book, and then do the proper rolls/paperwork.

Nathan Meyers
NYC GM/Player

Qadira ***

Sean H wrote:
JohnF wrote:
Sean H wrote:

Building off of what Jiggy said:

Quote:
but Pathfinder Society makes one adjustment to these rules: a wizard does not have to purchase a scroll found during the course of a scenario in order to copy that scroll into her spellbook.
With the exception of not having to purchase a found scroll, spell scribing works EXACTLY as mentioned in the CRB. This includes scribing spells from found spellbooks.

The problem is that the "adjustment/exception" you (and the FAQ) note isn't an exception - that's the normal way it works. If you find a scroll, you can (try to) scribe the spell from it into your spellbook.

I think you may misunderstand me. The exception isn't being able to scribe spells from scrolls, the exception is not needing to purchase the scroll, or own it, before scribing.

Which actually brings up an interesting question; how often do NPCs in scenarios actually have spellbooks? Is there a list of scenarios with wizards in them somewhere? I've played a couple dozen, and only seen an actual, bona-fide spellbook in two; City of Strangers Pt. II and Haunting of Hinoji.

Often spellbooks are overlooked by the judge - it'll be something like a line of text in the NPC discription that says something like:

spellbook in First Steps:

"spellbook (contains all prepared spells as well as all
0-level spells, burning hands, magic aura, silent image, and
ventriloquism)"

This means that often there IS a spellbook, but the judge just overlooks it.

Silver Crusade **

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Modules Subscriber

Taken from the FAQ today

Spoiler:
Quote:

How can wizards, witches, magi, and alchemists learn new spells or formulae?

Pages 219–220 in the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook discuss how to handle a wizard’s spellbook, but Pathfinder Society makes one adjustment to these rules: a wizard does not have to purchase a scroll found during the course of a scenario in order to copy that scroll into her spellbook. The wizard only needs to spend the time, succeed on the appropriate checks, and spend the amount of gold listed on the table on page 219 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook.... The normal rules for finding items during the course of a scenario are that they can be used during the scenario but must be purchased after the scenario in order to be kept. This clarification for wizards and their spellbooks is the singular exception to the gear rules.... If you don't find a scroll of a given spell during the course of an adventure, you have to buy the scroll to learn it. An NPC isn't just going to give you access to his spells for free, and purchasing a scroll of that spell represents the cost of gaining access to his spellbook. Any spell or formula learned must be accounted for on a scenario's Chronicle sheet in the "Conditions Gained" section.

My take: if I find a scroll/spellbook during an adventure, I can learn the contained spells if I make the requisite checks (and paying the usual fees to copy it into my spellbook). If I don't find a spell I want within an adventure, I have to buy a scroll with it or find a PC who will teach it to me; no NPC is going to give it to me just because I'm a pathfinder. Once I've bought the scroll, I still have to make the requisite checks and still have to pay the copy fee.

Cheliax ***

As part of GM prep, I have taken to printing the full spell book contents for both tiers as handouts, expanding where it says "all spells known plus ...", so I can just hand it to any wizard player and not interrupt the flow.

I would encourage wizard players to do the same, and have a summary list of their spell book contents if they intend to share. Typically it gets a bit messy and table time consuming to dig out your full lists when sharing at the table.

Qadira ***

Along ZomB's line of thought here's the advice I often give from one wizard to another.

Wall of Text Advice on sharing spellbooks:

It helps to have a list of the spells in your book that you can hand to another player. that way it doesn't cut into table time while he reviews your book to see what he can use/wants/doesn't have. And also stick on a big sticky note - that way, when he returns the spell list to you, he should have noted what he has that you don't - that you can add to your book. Get him to note his PFS character number too, that way you have a recored of who you got the spell from (I have just started doing this last part). So it goes something like this:

me to other player as we are sitting down at the table: "here's my spell book. Look thru and copy what you want. I'd like you to note what you have that I don't on this. Pass it back when your done."

Other player: "HA! like you're going to have something I don't... wait, you've got 5th level spells in your 1st level wiz/6th level rogues book??"

Me: "yeah, I adventure with a lot of wizards. This is my 'Wizard Bait'. Anyway, if you have anything I don't just note it ok?".

Me to the Judge: "If we have time & money before the adventure - we'll copy spells, if not, we'll do it at the end afterword. Is that ok? I'll copy anything he has that I don't."

I've had more than one player say "heck, even if we stop the game now, I've had a GREAT game! I'm a lot poorer - but LOTS of new spells!"

This way it only takes a couple minutes away from the RP of the table, reduces table crosstalk, does the needed bookwork, and (most important) doesn't cut into the DMs time/setup/etc.

It often results in a Wizard player who spends the first 10 minutes of the game with his nose in a spell book - giggling to himself. But I figure this is good role play. Every wizard is a little bit crazy..

Shadow Lodge ** Venture-Lieutenant, California—Silicon Valley aka JohnF

Sean H wrote:
JohnF wrote:
Sean H wrote:

Building off of what Jiggy said:

Quote:
but Pathfinder Society makes one adjustment to these rules: a wizard does not have to purchase a scroll found during the course of a scenario in order to copy that scroll into her spellbook.
With the exception of not having to purchase a found scroll, spell scribing works EXACTLY as mentioned in the CRB. This includes scribing spells from found spellbooks.

The problem is that the "adjustment/exception" you (and the FAQ) note isn't an exception - that's the normal way it works. If you find a scroll, you can (try to) scribe the spell from it into your spellbook.

I think you may misunderstand me. The exception isn't being able to scribe spells from scrolls, the exception is not needing to purchase the scroll, or own it, before scribing.

But, to flog the expiring equine, that's not a PFS adjustment/exception to the CRB rules. When you come across a scroll in non-PFS play, you can try to scribe the spell. How does what is permitted under the PFS rules (including the 'explanatory' text quoted from the FAQ) differ from what is permitted in non-PFS play when you find a scroll?

Qadira ***

JohnF wrote:
Sean H wrote:
JohnF wrote:
Sean H wrote:

Building off of what Jiggy said:

Quote:
but Pathfinder Society makes one adjustment to these rules: a wizard does not have to purchase a scroll found during the course of a scenario in order to copy that scroll into her spellbook.
With the exception of not having to purchase a found scroll, spell scribing works EXACTLY as mentioned in the CRB. This includes scribing spells from found spellbooks.

The problem is that the "adjustment/exception" you (and the FAQ) note isn't an exception - that's the normal way it works. If you find a scroll, you can (try to) scribe the spell from it into your spellbook.

I think you may misunderstand me. The exception isn't being able to scribe spells from scrolls, the exception is not needing to purchase the scroll, or own it, before scribing.

But, to flog the expiring equine, that's not a PFS adjustment/exception to the CRB rules. When you come across a scroll in non-PFS play, you can try to scribe the spell. How does what is permitted under the PFS rules (including the 'explanatory' text quoted from the FAQ) differ from what is permitted in non-PFS play when you find a scroll?

more than one person can scribe it?

It doesn't reduce the overall treasure haul?
In other words - it's used during the adventure (to scribe into someones book) and still can be "bought" as treasure.
(IMHO)

Silver Crusade **

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Modules Subscriber
nosig wrote:

more than one person can scribe it?

It doesn't reduce the overall treasure haul?
In other words - it's used during the adventure (to scribe into someones book) and still can be "bought" as treasure.
(IMHO)

I suspect only 1 can scribe it (after which it's blank), but since everyone else can then copy from the one who scribed it from the scroll (paying the cost to write it into your book), it's all good.

I agree that the "exception" is that you aren't reducing the treasure haul by scribing the scroll (it's still part of the $ and still available to be bought).

Qadira ***

Sabre wrote:
nosig wrote:

more than one person can scribe it?

It doesn't reduce the overall treasure haul?
In other words - it's used during the adventure (to scribe into someones book) and still can be "bought" as treasure.
(IMHO)

I suspect only 1 can scribe it (after which it's blank), but since everyone else can then copy from the one who scribed it from the scroll (paying the cost to write it into your book), it's all good.

I agree that the "exception" is that you aren't reducing the treasure haul by scribing the scroll (it's still part of the $ and still available to be bought).

A magus, a witch and an alchemist all look down at the scroll they just got in loot.

"So, do we roll dice to see who get's to use it?"

Silver Crusade **

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Modules Subscriber
nosig wrote:
Spoiler:
Sabre wrote:
nosig wrote:

more than one person can scribe it?

It doesn't reduce the overall treasure haul?
In other words - it's used during the adventure (to scribe into someones book) and still can be "bought" as treasure.
(IMHO)

I suspect only 1 can scribe it (after which it's blank), but since everyone else can then copy from the one who scribed it from the scroll (paying the cost to write it into your book), it's all good.

I agree that the "exception" is that you aren't reducing the treasure haul by scribing the scroll (it's still part of the $ and still available to be bought).

A magus, a witch and an alchemist all look down at the scroll they just got in loot.
"So, do we roll dice to see who get's to use it?"

Assuming all can use the spell, it's more like "so, who wants to use 'read magic' to simplify writing this into their spellbook? Because the rest of us are totally copying from you once you're done."

edit: grammar fail!

Silver Crusade **

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Modules Subscriber
Sabre wrote:
nosig wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

A magus, a witch and an alchemist all look down at the scroll they just got in loot.
"So, do we roll dice to see who get's to use it?"

Assuming all can use the spell, it's more like "so, who wants to use 'read magic' to simplify writing this into their spellbook? Because the rest of us are totally copying from you once you're done."

edit: grammar fail!

Hrm, need to read up more on witches and alchemists, i see. I was thinking wizzies.

Andoran ***

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game, Companion, Modules Subscriber
nosig wrote:
Sabre wrote:
nosig wrote:

more than one person can scribe it?

It doesn't reduce the overall treasure haul?
In other words - it's used during the adventure (to scribe into someones book) and still can be "bought" as treasure.
(IMHO)

I suspect only 1 can scribe it (after which it's blank), but since everyone else can then copy from the one who scribed it from the scroll (paying the cost to write it into your book), it's all good.

I agree that the "exception" is that you aren't reducing the treasure haul by scribing the scroll (it's still part of the $ and still available to be bought).

A magus, a witch and an alchemist all look down at the scroll they just got in loot.

"So, do we roll dice to see who get's to use it?"

Alchemist should be able to scribe it from the Magus's spellbook, but not the Witch's familiar. :(

No one but an Alchemist can scribe it from an Alchemist's formulae book, IIRC.

No one can scribe it from a Witch's familiar (although there is an item in UE that lets a witch have a duplicate outside her familiar...)

I guess it would be best served by Magus scribe, Alchemist copy, Witch wished she used a spellbook for a spellbook....

Silver Crusade **

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Modules Subscriber
kinevon wrote:
Quote:

A magus, a witch and an alchemist all look down at the scroll they just got in loot.

"So, do we roll dice to see who get's to use it?"

Alchemist should be able to scribe it from the Magus's spellbook, but not the Witch's familiar. :(

No one but an Alchemist can scribe it from an Alchemist's formulae book, IIRC.

No one can scribe it from a Witch's familiar (although there is an item in UE that lets a witch have a duplicate outside her familiar...)

I guess it would be best served by Magus scribe, Alchemist copy, Witch wished she used a spellbook for a spellbook....

Silly witches, burning a perfectly good scroll so their familiar can drink it....

Qadira ***

kinevon wrote:
nosig wrote:
Sabre wrote:
nosig wrote:

more than one person can scribe it?

It doesn't reduce the overall treasure haul?
In other words - it's used during the adventure (to scribe into someones book) and still can be "bought" as treasure.
(IMHO)

I suspect only 1 can scribe it (after which it's blank), but since everyone else can then copy from the one who scribed it from the scroll (paying the cost to write it into your book), it's all good.

I agree that the "exception" is that you aren't reducing the treasure haul by scribing the scroll (it's still part of the $ and still available to be bought).

A magus, a witch and an alchemist all look down at the scroll they just got in loot.

"So, do we roll dice to see who get's to use it?"

Alchemist should be able to scribe it from the Magus's spellbook, but not the Witch's familiar. :(

No one but an Alchemist can scribe it from an Alchemist's formulae book, IIRC.

No one can scribe it from a Witch's familiar (although there is an item in UE that lets a witch have a duplicate outside her familiar...)

I guess it would be best served by Magus scribe, Alchemist copy, Witch wished she used a spellbook for a spellbook....

(Edited to correct this)

some judges will not let an Alchemist copy from a Magus spell book... YMMV.

Silver Crusade **

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Modules Subscriber
nosig wrote:
Spoiler:
kinevon wrote:
nosig wrote:
Sabre wrote:
nosig wrote:

more than one person can scribe it?

It doesn't reduce the overall treasure haul?
In other words - it's used during the adventure (to scribe into someones book) and still can be "bought" as treasure.
(IMHO)

I suspect only 1 can scribe it (after which it's blank), but since everyone else can then copy from the one who scribed it from the scroll (paying the cost to write it into your book), it's all good.

I agree that the "exception" is that you aren't reducing the treasure haul by scribing the scroll (it's still part of the $ and still available to be bought).

A magus, a witch and an alchemist all look down at the scroll they just got in loot.

"So, do we roll dice to see who get's to use it?"

Alchemist should be able to scribe it from the Magus's spellbook, but not the Witch's familiar. :(

No one but an Alchemist can scribe it from an Alchemist's formulae book, IIRC.

No one can scribe it from a Witch's familiar (although there is an item in UE that lets a witch have a duplicate outside her familiar...)

I guess it would be best served by Magus scribe, Alchemist copy, Witch wished she used a spellbook for a spellbook....

most judges will not let an Alchemist copy from a Magus spell book... YMMV.

Then they're doing it wrong. Taken from Ultimate Magic (bold mine):

"A magus can learn spells from a wizard’s spellbook, just as a wizard can from a magus’s spellbook. The spells learned must be on the magus spell list, as normal. An alchemist (see the Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player’s Guide) can learn formulae from a magus’s spellbook, if the spells are also on the alchemist spell list. A magus cannot learn spells from an alchemist."

Qadira ***

ah well. Guess I missed out on some formula then.

this is why I said YMMV.

Silver Crusade **

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Modules Subscriber

Starting a wizard (lvl 1 - go!) and since its my 1st arcane caster ever, I'm trying to read up on all this stuff -- and put it into a word doc I can print so I can argue (after the game!) as needed ;)

This thread now has me reading up on witches and alchemists. My head's gonna explode.

Andoran ***

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game, Companion, Modules Subscriber
Sabre wrote:

Starting a wizard (lvl 1 - go!) and since its my 1st arcane caster ever, I'm trying to read up on all this stuff -- and put it into a word doc I can print so I can argue (after the game!) as needed ;)

This thread now has me reading up on witches and alchemists. My head's gonna explode.

Hey, at least you don't have to read up on Bards and Sorcerers, too, since they don't use spellbooks since they are spontaneous casters...


Erik Crossley wrote:
We were looking at this the other week, and whilst you are required to make that spellcraft check you can take 10 on it. The things you learn.

Just out of curiousity, where can you find this tidbit?

At any rate, I wish I could scribe spells for my witch, but... There doesn't seem to be a lot of witches... Either that or all the ones I've ran into I had no knowledge of and my GM didn't play up the witchiness...

Andoran ***

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game, Companion, Modules Subscriber

Someone just cast a Summoning spell? Should I add "Play, play, play!" to Summon Dragnmoon, too?

But, more seriously, here are the rules for Take 10:

Taking 10 wrote:
When your character is not in immediate danger or distracted, you may choose to take 10. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10. For many routine tasks, taking 10 makes them automatically successful. Distractions or threats (such as combat) make it impossible for a character to take 10. In most cases, taking 10 is purely a safety measure—you know (or expect) that an average roll will succeed but fear that a poor roll might fail, so you elect to settle for the average roll (a 10). Taking 10 is especially useful in situations where a particularly high roll wouldn't help.

When scribing a spell into your spellbook, you normally won't be in immediate danger or distracted, I would think.

The only skill which does not allow the use of Take 10 at all is UMD. Swimming disallows it in heavy waters, although that is sort of redundant to the immediate danger part of the T10 rules...

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Marthian wrote:
Erik Crossley wrote:
We were looking at this the other week, and whilst you are required to make that spellcraft check you can take 10 on it. The things you learn.
Just out of curiousity, where can you find this tidbit?

In the definition of Take 10, and the lack of anything anywhere saying that spellcraft checks would be an exception.

Take 10 is in the Skills chapter (chapter 4) of the CRB, or under "Using Skills" in the CRB section of the Official PRD.

EDIT: Wow, somehow I missed that kinevon already answered the question. Oh well. :)

Cheliax ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Modules Subscriber
kinevon wrote:
Sabre wrote:

Starting a wizard (lvl 1 - go!) and since its my 1st arcane caster ever, I'm trying to read up on all this stuff -- and put it into a word doc I can print so I can argue (after the game!) as needed ;)

This thread now has me reading up on witches and alchemists. My head's gonna explode.

Hey, at least you don't have to read up on Bards and Sorcerers, too, since they don't use spellbooks since they are spontaneous casters...

Actually, it's worse than that.

Bards and Sorcerers *do* use spellbooks now. See mnemonic vestment from Ultimate Equipment.

I've been paying to have the wizards in my party make me a copy of their bard/wizard overlap spells from their spellbooks, if they're willing.... since bards and sorcs can't scribe spellbooks!

Shadow Lodge ** Venture-Lieutenant, California—Silicon Valley aka JohnF

TetsujinOni wrote:

Bards and Sorcerers *do* use spellbooks now. See mnemonic vestment from Ultimate Equipment.

I've been paying to have the wizards in my party make me a copy of their bard/wizard overlap spells from their spellbooks, if they're willing.... since bards and sorcs can't scribe spellbooks!

Can you do that?

I thought the PFS rules said you can't buy things (or services) from another character.

Taldor ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Card Game Subscriber
JohnF wrote:
TetsujinOni wrote:

Bards and Sorcerers *do* use spellbooks now. See mnemonic vestment from Ultimate Equipment.

I've been paying to have the wizards in my party make me a copy of their bard/wizard overlap spells from their spellbooks, if they're willing.... since bards and sorcs can't scribe spellbooks!

Can you do that?

I thought the PFS rules said you can't buy things (or services) from another character.

It sounds like he's just paying for the spellbook and the ink/supplies to write the spells into his spellbook. The other players are only providing services of scribing, and not being paid for said services.

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Georgia—Atlanta aka CRobledo

JohnF wrote:

Can you do that?

I thought the PFS rules said you can't buy things (or services) from another character.

I think he means him paying the cash for the scribing cost, and the other player doing the scribing. The money doesn't go to the other player.

Seems like a wonky area, but since money is not exchanged between players... seems almost akin to "here, have this scroll and cast it on me."

Cheliax ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Modules Subscriber

Snigge and CRobledo have the right of the mechanics of it. I pay the full cost to scribe a new spell into a book. Notionally they're getting paid half of it that disappears into the mechanics of Organized Play rules, since a wizard can scribe a copy of a spell from their own spellbook at half price.

I've only had one opportunity to get spells from another PC, the rest have been scroll purchases.

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