Vision of madness for enemies?

[vip00]

I thought this was discussed to death for some reason, but I can't seem to find any of the threads...

Can the vision of madness domain power be used on enemies?

Vision of Madness:

(Sp): You can give a creature a vision of madness as a melee touch attack. Choose one of the following: attack rolls, saving throws, or skill checks. The target receives a bonus to the chosen rolls equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum +1) and a penalty to the other two types of rolls equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum –1). This effect fades after 3 rounds. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

It seems a little crazy to allow a lvl 10 cleric to be giving enemies -5 to atk and saves in exchange for a +5 to skill checks... with no save! It seems like it's easily fixed by only allowing willing targets or allowing the target rather than the caster to choose which of the three to augment. Alternatively, it could be allowed a will save if cast on an enemy.

Thoughts?

[David knott 242]

You do already have to make a melee touch attack on the target to inflict this effect, so buffing up your touch AC and staying away from the cleric would both be good ways to avoid being afflicted with this condition. There is nothing in the description of this power that indicates that it is meant only as a buff to allies.

[vip00]

David knott 242 wrote:

You do already have to make a melee touch attack on the target to inflict this effect, so buffing up your touch AC and staying away from the cleric would both be good ways to avoid being afflicted with this condition. There is nothing in the description of this power that indicates that it is meant only as a buff to allies.

There is indeed nothing in the description to indicate that, but if you look at pretty much every other 1st level domain power (touch of law, destructive smite, etc), they all have a very mild power level as well as having one specific use.

This one is both hugely powerful and hugely versatile.

There is really no reason that this one can't be both, it would just make this domain much more powerful than pretty much every other one out there imo.

[Shane LeRose]

We had a player use this with a high level cleric. Often he had to save spells for healing later on so he'd just go around the battlefield making enemies go crazy. Technically it works on anything, undead, constructs, plants, which is weird, but useful. It seems powerful by comparison to other domain powers, but he had no melee ability so this made for an excellent use of his actions.

[2ndGenerationCleric]

So since it's a spell-like ability, it provokes when using it, right? Is there a way to cast it Defensively? What would that take?

[Rub-Eta]

A whole lot of protect from undead after this thred necro!

[2ndGenerationCleric]

heh, true, i guess i did bring it bak from the dead-but the question remains

[My Self]

Yes, it provokes when you cast.

Spell-Like Abilities wrote:

Spell-Like Abilities (Sp)

Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability's use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.

A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell.

Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and dispel magic. They do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled.

If a character class grants a spell-like ability that is not based on an actual spell, the ability's effective spell level is equal to the highest-level class spell the character can cast, and is cast at the class level the ability is gained.

It's treated like a spell in all other ways. Most SLAs are based off of CHA for concentration and DCs, but since it's a Cleric ability, it's probably WIS.

Next time, make a new thread?

[2ndGenerationCleric]

So it would be at level 5 fire a level 10 cleric, as it's effective sleep level is equal to the biggest spell I can currently cast? Or at level 1,as it's cast at the class level I gain it at?

What difference does it make if the thread is old vs new?

[Diego Rossi]

FAQ wrote:

Cleric domains, sorcerer bloodlines, wizard schools, and certain other class features give spell-like abilities that aren't based on spells. What's the effective spell level for these abilities?

The effective spell level for these spell-like abilities is equal to the highest-level spell that a character of that class could normally cast at the level the ability is gained.

For example, a 1st-level elemental bloodline sorcerer has elemental ray as a spell-like ability. Because a sorcerer 1's highest-level spell available is 1st, that spell-like ability counts as a 1st-level spell. A 9th-level elemental bloodline sorcerer has elemental blast as a spell-like ability. Because a sorcerer 9's highest-level spell available is 4th, that spell-like ability counts as a 4th-level spell.

So Touch of Madness count as a 1st level spell.

As it is a touch spell you can cast it, move and then deliver the touch.

[2ndGenerationCleric]

i just wanted to make sure, as it would be easy to make that check to cast it defensively for such a strong spell-like ability