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Goblinworks Blog: Time Keeps On Slipping, Slipping, Slipping into the Future!


Pathfinder Online

301 to 350 of 434 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | next > last >>
Goblin Squad Member

Yeah, I was just making the point that the term you're trying to evolve past is an extremely unwieldy acronym, so trying to come up with a creative, artistic term is going to be quite challenging.

Goblin Squad Member

Hmmm. Spitballing another idea. What if we refer to this part of game development as 'boot camp'?

Since boot camp is what soldiers go through in order to gain the requisite, ahem, bells and whistles, to progress into further specialized areas.

You could always say that Game A is in it's boot camp stage.

Just a spitball.

Goblin Squad Member

As far as branding a new idea, the same goes as goes for telling a joke: if you have to explain it, it doesn't work.

Come up with a name that sells itself. The second you find yourself explaining why you think your idea for a name will work, you should already know you need to go back to the drawing board.

This is not directed specifically at any one post. I see this mistake a lot in this thread.

Goblin Squad Member

Not sure if this one is out there yet:

-Consumer Influenced Production

It's not really specific to MMO's, this takes it a step closer:

-Consumer Influenced Development

And this takes it a little closer:

-Player Influenced Development

And a slight step away:

-Player Influenced Production

Goblin Squad Member

Valkenr wrote:

Not sure if this one is out there yet:

-Consumer Influenced Production

It's not really specific to MMO's, this takes it a step closer:

-Consumer Influenced Development

And this takes it a little closer:

-Player Influenced Development

And a slight step away:

-Player Influenced Production

'Player'/'Consumer' can also be replaced with 'Community'

Lantern Lodge

PDG - Player Designed Game
CDG - Community designed Game

Possible news statements, do they sound good and understandable?

"Goblinworks officially stated it's release of Pathfinder Online as a 'Player Designed Game'and will have a limited release."

Or should it be "..and will have a phased release."

Goblin Squad Member

Massive Community Guided Design

Goblin Squad Member

Ryan Dancey wrote:

We don't need an acronym or a string of capitalized words built of insider-speak. Those just et sent to /dev/null in people's brains.

Think about what Apple or Starbucks would call this process. "Retina display" is what I want - something descriptive enough that you know what I'm talking about, free of gibberish, memorable, and once I explain it, you are likely to remember why it matters

"Pumpkin spice latte".

Trust me, I know this is hard. I do marketing for a living and if it were easy I couldn't feed my family. :)

I'm kind of curious. I think my last 3 bolded suggestions actually kind of fit your description.

Pumpkin spice latte seems to be the shortest, sweetest, most simple phrase to describe a... pumpkin spice latte. That's what I've been going for. If anything what are the biggest problems you see with my last suggestions or how do they fall short of what you want?

For the sake of not making you sift and scroll:

Quote:

Gradual Admission Feedback Driven Design

Incrementally Launched Feedback Driven Design
Incrementally Launched Feedback Driven Development

Lantern Lodge

Yes critiques would certainly help us refine our thoughts.

Goblin Squad Member

Reinventing the Wheel?

EDIT: Or: We re-invented the wheel..help us kick the tires!
Tire kicker...

Goblin Squad Member

@Andius: Ask your nearest non-gamer if they could tell you what might be great about those names.

Then ask them if they'd like a Pumpkin spiced latte.

See the difference?

Goblin Squad Member

@DarkLightHitomi:

Look for a few simple words that mean something. Not something gibberish, but something emotional, something that connects to your heart.

"Three chords, and the truth"

RyanD

Goblin Squad Member

Initially it seems like there is a fundamental disconnect between form and function. One one end of the spectrum, you have pure aesthetics; a name chosen for the abstract ideas and images in conjures, but one that fails to relate any valuable information. On the other end is a pure, clinical summation that defines clearly and concisely but with no emotion or gravitas. I guess the ideal name would be an even mix of both?

Just spitballing some terms and phrases here.

Chrysalis, Keystone, Cornerstone, Forge, Framework, Source, Heritance, lineage, kindling, mainspring, sire, artisan, artificer, assemblage, coterie.

I'll post some more after I get some sleep.

Goblin Squad Member

The reason "Retina display" is brilliant is that it removes technobabble from a technology product and replaces it with a human-centric value.

It's a "Retina display" because your eye can't see any more pixels even if you keep upping the pixel density. More pixels are pointless. Doesn't matter what that number is. What matters is "You can't see any more pixels".

Anyone to whom that is explained intuitively gets it. They don't have to worry any more about dpi, screen x/y values, etc. It turns nonsense into common sense.

Goblin Squad Member

Pumpkin spice latte is brilliant because it conjures up a TASTE.

Starbucks could have called it "harvest essence latte", but that wouldn't really work. Nobody knows what a "harvest essence" tastes like.

Nobody knows what a pumpkin spice tastes like either, btw. That's the magic of the term - you can probably imagine what that drink tastes like even though you've never before encountered a bottle of powdered pumpkin spice.

Goblin Squad Member

Hmm, simple but evocative. Let's see..

I like the new term coined for Kickstarter-type endeavors 'crowdsourcing'

How about 'Crowdconstructed' or 'crowdimagined'?

Riffing on MMO

Multiplayer Built Online Game, or MBOG?

Silver Crusade Goblin Squad Member

Ryan Dancey wrote:

Pumpkin spice latte is brilliant because it conjures up a TASTE.

Starbucks could have called it "harvest essence latte", but that wouldn't really work. Nobody knows what a "harvest essence" tastes like.

Nobody knows what a pumpkin spice tastes like either, btw. That's the magic of the term - you can probably imagine what that drink tastes like even though you've never before encountered a bottle of powdered pumpkin spice.

No one knew what it tasted like, and probably couldn't guess at the flavor, until *after* the term was invented. Honestly, invent your term and the people will come to you. MMORPG was/is incredibly clunky, but it worked and people learned it. Also, this game is built for a niche community. Why are we attempted to create a bland term that appeals to the masses? Wouldn't you be better off creating a term that sells to those more likely to buy your product?

Lantern Lodge

Collective Essential Design

POG - Player Oriented Game

Look up synonyms for more ideas!
Design synonyms
Sketched
Originated
Conceived

Community synonyms
Communal
Kinship

Open Origination Execution

For release method (which i think is different and needs to be it's own term)
Incrementally Released
Multi-Stage Release

The problem with aethetics and technology is that not many of our aesthetic words can describe what technology does, which is the second requirement of the desired word/phrase.

The "flavor" one is looking for also makes a difference.

Lantern Lodge

I still like Communally Designed SBG (SandBox Game)


Horizon Leaping MMO
Expedition Sandbox MMO

Maybe... Pathfinder Online is a Fantasy Horizon game
...
This is tough. I think, finally, after 2 weeks, we actually understand what you're looking for. Now to find it XD.

Lantern Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

You could always decide to not name it and let whatever phrases the media and reviewers create circulate till something sticks.

Goblin Squad Member

Alexander_Damocles wrote:


No one knew what it tasted like, and probably couldn't guess at the flavor, until *after* the term was invented.

The reason it is brilliant is that you intuitively know what it will taste like even though you have never tasted it before, and there is no such thing as pumpkin spice.

That's real marketing brilliance.

Goblin Squad Member

Ideas, yours and ours, a perpetual symphony

Goblin Squad Member

Community Driven Virtual World

Silver Crusade Goblin Squad Member

Ryan Dancey wrote:
Alexander_Damocles wrote:


No one knew what it tasted like, and probably couldn't guess at the flavor, until *after* the term was invented.

The reason it is brilliant is that you intuitively know what it will taste like even though you have never tasted it before, and there is no such thing as pumpkin spice.

That's real marketing brilliance.

I hate to disagree, but to this date I have never had a Pumpkin Spice Latte. And I honestly have no idea what it would taste like. Pumpkin? Coffee? Some strange spice out of Asia? I haven't the foggiest. The term makes sense to those who enjoy it.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Ryan Dancey wrote:
Alexander_Damocles wrote:


No one knew what it tasted like, and probably couldn't guess at the flavor, until *after* the term was invented.

The reason it is brilliant is that you intuitively know what it will taste like even though you have never tasted it before, and there is no such thing as pumpkin spice.

That's real marketing brilliance.

Not to be a douche, but pumpkin spice is another name for pumpkin pie spice, which is a standard mix of spices that you can buy pre-mixed at a grocery store. You might not know that, but 'pumpkin spice' will stil make you think of pumpkin pie, so you know what a pumpkin spice latte will taste like - pumpkin pie and a latte. Which is exactly the ingredients that they add to a latte to make it.

It's still great marketing, but all they did was change it from "Pumpkin Pie Latte" to "Pumpkin Spice Latte". Its the little changes that makes phrases catchier that works. It wasn't a stroke of genius though. Brute force would give anyone that name in about 4 tries. "pumpkin pie latte? no. pumpkin latte? no. pumpkin pie spice latte? no. pumpkin spice latte, there we go, perfect." Retina display is similar, though brute forcing the name might have taken 10 attempts and a little creativity. Maybe.

The key to both examples given were that they took the description and they shortened it and spun it just right. They didn't pull genius out of thin air.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

The key to good names is that they are obvious in retrospect. Once the right name comes up in discussion, everyone will immediately think "that is perfect and obvious".

In that vien, I'll toss "generation" and "generational", into the pit, both in terms of "next gen" and "player generated".

Character-generated MMORPG?

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2015

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If you're looking for exiting, no-gimmick name that says what it does and gets people psyched, why not simply call it: Player Development or a Player Development Period? That is exactly what you're describing: directly allowing players' input to finish and fine-tune the development of the game... and it's exciting. Every gamer wishes they could personally design their ideal game.

Daron Woodson
Abandoned Arts

Goblin Squad Member

X-Factor Development!

As in X: (unknown/creative component to a process) aka "Have you got talent?"

Goblin Squad Member

Perhaps a term borrowed from Participatory Theater?

Goblin Squad Member

Grassroots MMO

as opposed to sandbox mmo or themepark MMO.

Goblin Squad Member

Well, I have another catch phrase:

From the Community, For the Community.

Goblin Squad Member

Communal Initiative phase

Generation Zero

The Legacy Forge

Keystone Development Stage

Player Driven, Player Compelled, Player Advanced

Pumpkin Spice Beta

Personally my favorite approaches from what have been listed are:

A: Something that relates crafting. Artisan, Forge, Construction. I keep thinking of an army of dwarves pounding away on anvils beneath the earth, building the bones of the world itself.

B: A sense of legacy. Forebear, Inheritance. The feeling that those initial players will be establishing a world for future generations of players to come.

Goblin Squad Member

Stumpy Mcduff wrote:
Pumpkin Spice Beta

If that even came slightly close to any of the criteria we are working toward I would be 100% behind it. XD

It's just pure awesome... but no...

Goblin Squad Member

Stumpy Mcduff wrote:
Pumpkin Spice Beta

Andius is right, that is just pure awesome :)

Goblin Squad Member

Notmyrealname wrote:

Grassroots MMO

as opposed to sandbox mmo or themepark MMO.

I was circling around this, though I could not quite get it, "supporters' club"... no... almost... what is it? etc... GRASSROOTS! +1

Goblin Squad Member

Grassroots is good but I wonder how well that term will be understood by people who don't at least loosely follow politics.

Goblin Squad Member

I thought about grassroots as well, but that would also imply that they are making the game because the fans organized and asked them to.

Goblin Squad Member

Haven't we been asking for a good fantasy sandbox for a long time? I know I have.

Goblin Squad Member

I like grassroots, but it could imply the game itself is fan made, some sort of independent project. I believe this was the case with a battlestar galactica mmo recently, though I didn't follow it that closely.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Player Participatory Generation; Player-generated design?

Character-built world; player-built world; character-generated world (contrast procedurally-generated world)?

(for the phase)
Player generation; player development?

Shadow Lodge Goblin Squad Member

Coalition Accord
Forward in Concert


Feedback Loop
Thrill Appraisal
Open Discourse
Intimate Initiation
Cooperative Design
Popular Development

I feel like many of my ideas are still far from what's expected but I think "Intimate Initiation" is one of the better ideas out of those six.

Edit: Some cleaning up/combining of the ideas above. I admit they're still a little vague in defining what's going to happen.

Popular Design
Symbiotic Development
Intimate Discourse

Goblin Squad Member

Ryan Dancey wrote:

The reason "Retina display" is brilliant is that it removes technobabble from a technology product and replaces it with a human-centric value.

It's a "Retina display" because your eye can't see any more pixels even if you keep upping the pixel density. More pixels are pointless. Doesn't matter what that number is. What matters is "You can't see any more pixels".

Anyone to whom that is explained intuitively gets it. They don't have to worry any more about dpi, screen x/y values, etc. It turns nonsense into common sense.

At a differing number of inches from the screen depending on the device, for someone with 20/20 vision, and only for gentle curves on solid shapes. For someone who holds the device closer, has better than normal reading vision (I'm 20/10, myself), or is viewing something with a lot of sharp angles (like say... text), the claim breaks down. As a simple test just load up a simple image with horizontal black and white lines and see how far away you are able to tell the result from a medium gray image.

It's just another marketing gimmick. I'll be amused if we see a 'Retina II' name. "This time we mean it, really!"

Goblin Squad Member

LIVE FIRE! Phase/Design/Dev -> punchy!

Goblin Squad Member

The problem here I think is "Frame of Reference". It's pretty much impossible to provide a name or phrase that is truely descriptive to someone unless you share a common frame of reference with them.

"Pumpkin Spice Latte" works because we all (or at least most of the people who would be potential customers of Starbucks) pretty much have a common frame of reference for what pumpkins are and how they are supposed to taste, what spice is and what latte is.

Use that phrase on a person from another planet, even if they spoke English, and it would no longer work, they'd have no common frame of reference for it. They probably would have never even seen a pumpkin let alone knew what it tasted like....so "Pumpkin Spiced Latte"... wouldn't evoke anything for them.

So that begs the question...just how much of a common frame of reference would the general public have for terms that could be used to accurately describe gaming specific concepts?

There's a bit of danger when attempting to use general terms the public is familiar with to describe concepts very specific to particular sub-cultures, hobbies or disciplines. I see this alot with technology (I work as a Network Engineer by trade), the marketers will come up with some term that they believe sounds all cool and spiffy to describe a product or technology or method to the general public....problem is more then half the time what the term is evoking is actualy WRONG as to how the thing it's describing actualy works or what it's relevance is.... and when you start dealing with audiences that are technicaly knowledgable (i.e. if you are actualy selling to technology proffesionals rather then joe public)... it becomes more of a joke then anything else. YMMV.

Goblin Squad Member

You are right but there are also a lot of frames of reference shared by our target customers. So we just have to leverage that.

Goblin Squad Member

Co-Play?

Silver Crusade Goblin Squad Member , Star Voter 2013

Rally.

Or, along the same lines:

Assembly.
Congregation.

Goblin Squad Member

I like 'Trailblazers'. Especially combined with any number of buzzwords. But I also like all the spitballing; how about 'Inaugural Participation'? 'Itinerant worldbuilding'? 'Online player generated content in the context of a popular RPG setting'? Throw us some more bones, people!

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