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Did I do this wrong


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

Last night my players had to fight a level 7 soc had level 5 fighter cohort since she had the leadership feat the party only got xp for the level 7 soc. They are complainig that they should have also goten xp for the level 5 fighter but since she had him from a feat is it not like if she summoned him thier for no bounes xp?


we had something VERY similar happen in a recent game. We fought a Vrock (demon) that successfully made it's percentile roll to summon... another Vrock. Technically, by the rules, we should only get experience for fighting a single demon, as supposedly the challenge rating (I'm sorry, I don't remember what it's called in pathfinder, just started playing it a few months ago over 3.5) takes into account the ability to summon a buddy.

I believe this would be similar. Technically, the cohort is just part of the challenge.... which a LOT of people think is a bit.... BS.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

While the RAW may say no XP, as the GM I would take into account the impact the cohort had on the overall encounter. If they delt with the cohort quickly then no XP. But if the cohort helped make the encounter a much deadlier encounter I might add some XP to the pool.

Sczarni

Uhh Blackfell is right in the summoning instance. If a party fights a Master Summoner and takes out 25 Celestial Dogs then you still only get credit for killing the summoner. BUT if this is a home game and NOT written by Paizo then I hardly doubt the exp for having the Leadership feat is calculated into encounter. In this instance, if it was written by the GM and NOT Paizo, then the party should have gotten experience from the cohort as well. The cohort in this circumstance is not a Class skill or a Spell Like ability.

Cheliax

I would say technically no. I would also say your players sound kind of whiny, but that's just me.

Andoran

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

CR is not exact. There is a lot of variance. By the rules, you do not get XP for the cohort or summoned creature.

You also don't get less XP when an NPC has Skill Focus (Basketweaving) instead of Power Attack, despite this making the encounter less challenging. So it is a trade-off.

Sczarni

1 person marked this as a favorite.

This is why you don't say anything to players about XP gain. Sometimes there are reasons why you don't wish your players to level up too soon, however, they should receive XP in according to the CR of fight.


You should definetly give XP for the cohort - though I'll grant its not technically supposed to work that way. Its a simple fairness thing imo.

Lets take the exact same encounter except the Sorcerer has skill focus spellcraft, or anything that is not directly going to alter the encounter, the PCs would get far more experience for fighting the 5th level fighter and the seventh level sorcerer than for fighting the 5th level fighter and 7th level sorcerer. In normal games bad guys have minions who are essentially cohorts without the feats being needed.

So what you are doing is essentially giving your villain the feat give less XP for identical encounter. Does that seem fair, intuitive, or fun to you? If it does not then you are indeed doing something wrong. Ask yourself why you gave the character leadership, and is it available to your players? If I was a player in your game and you did that I would be thinking turn about is fair play, lets all get cohorts... I probably wouldn't actually do it, since I feel it would make the game less fun, but a GM taking decisions like that encourages player vs Gm thinking - generally a bad thing imo.

I have never seen Paizo use leadership like this in any of their modules or APs, which I think is very telling. Though I hardly have an exhaustive knowledge and could well be wrong.

Cheliax

It also doesn't raise the APL of the party if they're bringing their cohorts along.

Ask yourself, as a GM, whether you would increase the CR of the challenges if the PCs brought their cohorts. If you would, give experience for the enemy cohort. If you wouldn't, don't.

Sczarni

I just found a d-bag way of making my players hate me.

Every enemy they fight is the cohort of the BBEG at the end of the chapter. Sorry kids no experience until you kill the BBEG!


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I might give bonus XP in this scenario if, as Danielc put it, the minion significantly impacted the fight. That said, the sorcerer did use a resource (a feat) at their disposal to make the encounter tougher. People are comparing it to Skill Focus (Blah) but the reality is that it would have been toughness, Spell Focus, or perhaps a crafting feat, all of which would have, potentially, had a significant impact on the encounter.
Would the impact of one failed save, or a higher wealth, equal the impact a level 5 fighter had, though? That's your call. Also, was the fighter your traditional, optimized fighter? I know any time I've gotten a cohort, the cohort isn't exactly what I want, at the GM's discretion, just...mostly-to-somewhat...what I want.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
ossian666 wrote:

I just found a d-bag way of making my players hate me.

Every enemy they fight is the cohort of the BBEG at the end of the chapter. Sorry kids no experience until you kill the BBEG!

That is cold. Funny, but cold. LOL

Grand Lodge

Thanks for the help on this. What I think I will do if give them 1/2 the xp that a normal 5th level fighter would have been worth. Sort of split the diffrance.

Thank you for all your advise.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
danielc wrote:
ossian666 wrote:

I just found a d-bag way of making my players hate me.

Every enemy they fight is the cohort of the BBEG at the end of the chapter. Sorry kids no experience until you kill the BBEG!

That is cold. Funny, but cold. LOL

I was thinking it'd be pretty troll-y, but funny, to have a level 20 end boss that took Leadership. Their level 18 cohort then takes Leadership, the level 16 cohort of which takes Leadership...all the way down to a level 4 minion....hah.

Grand Lodge

Kjob wrote:
danielc wrote:
ossian666 wrote:

I just found a d-bag way of making my players hate me.

Every enemy they fight is the cohort of the BBEG at the end of the chapter. Sorry kids no experience until you kill the BBEG!

That is cold. Funny, but cold. LOL
I was thinking it'd be pretty troll-y, but funny, to have a level 20 end boss that took Leadership. Their level 18 cohort then takes Leadership, the level 16 cohort of which takes Leadership...all the way down to a level 4 minion....hah.

Ouch that would be a ton since it is leage as unlike summons there is nothing to say they can not also take the feat. Also think how may level 1 npc's they would have to go throw. Just think if there leadership scores are 25 each some how they would each bring 135 level 1, 13 level 2, 7 level 3, 4 level 4, 2 level 5 and 2 level 6 each to the fight. That would defintly drain thier stuff before they got into the big fight.

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