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Best feat ever.


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion

101 to 150 of 179 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | next > last >>
Silver Crusade

My condolences, Ravingdork. The ideal of a collaborative gaming experience can sometimes degenerate into competition, sometimes even an 'arms race' between players and DM.

I wish I had some constructive solutions for you, but mine are all illegal, immoral and funny.


I would go Combat Reflexes. Since you can get this at first level and string that into many broke combos. While LEadership is not PFS legal and some DMs do not allwo it.


Evil Lincoln wrote:
And so, the thread is about Leadership after all.

blame gorbacz. if you do not want a thread about leadership then you should not call the thread "best feat ever".

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Evil Lincoln wrote:
And so, the thread is about Leadership after all.

It could be worse.

It could be Weapon Specialization (net).

;-)


I'm in the Improved Initiative camp.
It's tough to find a race or class that it dosent benifit.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Finlanderboy wrote:
I would go Combat Reflexes. Since you can get this at first level and string that into many broke combos. While LEadership is not PFS legal and some DMs do not allwo it.

Yeah, I think Combat Reflexes is a lot better than Improved Initiative, at least for melee types. If you have a reach weapon, you don't need to win initiative to hit first; you can make an AoO even while flat-footed. And then you can get a full attack off too.

Improved Initiative helps you start a little bit sooner, but since the variance on initiative is so big, you still might not start soon enough. Also, Improved Initiative doesn't let you do anything new and exciting. It's only used once per combat. It can't be used out of combat, really. It's just kind of boring.


Ignoring leadership for a second, adding rapid shot or manyshot to an archer probably increase your DPR by a higher percentage then any other single feat does for any other character. Just from a pure numbers point of view, I'd have to go for one of them.

Andoran RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Rapid Shot is crazy good, much better than its melee equivalent, TWF.


Orthos wrote:
. . . I don't let them build their own cohorts, myself. They're still NPCs, not class features like an Eidolon or Familiar or Companion.

I apologize if this has been touched upon, but though I agree that the DM is suppose to build them (which limits abuse), if you have cohorts by virtue of a feat, they ARE a class feature.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Correction: Class feature means something delineated in the per-level abilities of a specific character class.

Spending a general feat on Leadership is NOT using a class feature. It's just a general feat.

We now return you to your thread.

And have to agree....#1 Feat for an archer is likely Rapid Shot.

==Aelryinth


TeShen wrote:
Orthos wrote:
. . . I don't let them build their own cohorts, myself. They're still NPCs, not class features like an Eidolon or Familiar or Companion.
I apologize if this has been touched upon, but though I agree that the DM is suppose to build them (which limits abuse), if you have cohorts by virtue of a feat, they ARE a class feature.

Devs disagree, but it's not official. It's DM discression territory.


Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Devs disagree, but it's not official. It's DM discression territory.

Agreed. There is a similar feat in SW SAGA edition, and I personally was of the opinion that if they took the feat they get to make the characters. Of course I reviewed them of course after the fact to make sure they were in line with the rules like I would any PC character.

However, I also personally think it is signifigantly easier to just allow them to rp their way into an organization. To attempt to recruit recurring npcs into a growing order or working their way up an existing organization just makes more sense to do without enforcing a mechanic behind it.

Shadow Lodge

It really wouldn't matter if they did to me heh, I would houserule it back to how I run it anyway ;)


Aelryinth wrote:

Correction: Class feature means something delineated in the per-level abilities of a specific character class.

Spending a general feat on Leadership is NOT using a class feature. It's just a general feat.

Hmm. The Greater Leadership you get from the Noble Scion prestige class is a class feature; does that mean that in that case you do get to design your cohort?


Yosarian wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

Correction: Class feature means something delineated in the per-level abilities of a specific character class.

Spending a general feat on Leadership is NOT using a class feature. It's just a general feat.

Hmm. The Greater Leadership you get from the Noble Scion prestige class is a class feature; does that mean that in that case you do get to design your cohort?

And what if I use my tenth level Rogue Advanced Talent to pick up Leadership? Or what if my Cleric has the Leadership Domain and receives it that way? Those make it a class feature too.

I don't see any point in drawing a distinction between class features and the standard feats from gaining levels. They're both a part of my character; why do they act differently with respect to whether I or the GM makes the decisions?

Shadow Lodge

I'm told 'because the DM says so' and that you aren't allowed to question it.


Orthos wrote:
It really wouldn't matter if they did to me heh, I would houserule it back to how I run it anyway ;)

as the gm i would rather do it for them, that way i can avoid the crying after they spent 1-2 hours building a toon just to have me say no. if i do it, i know it will be allowed and they can talk to me if they find it not to be what they wanted.

Cheliax

Roberta Yang wrote:

And what if I use my tenth level Rogue Advanced Talent to pick up Leadership? Or what if my Cleric has the Leadership Domain and receives it that way? Those make it a class feature too.

If a class or ability allows the player to build the NPC, then yeah - the player should build it. As it stands nothing in the Leadership feat say or implies that these "NPCs" are designed by anyone but the DM.

As I stated before - you get to pick the type or Familiar or Animal Companion but you do not get to pick their stats. Generic NPCs, pulled from a book of standardized NPC stats makes this feat very decent. Players custom designing NPC cohorts stats and feats to suit their needs is OP, and that facet is neither implied nor stated in the feat description.

I think players should be allowed to ask the DM for a role to be filled, but actually number crunching and feat selection for the NPC by the player makes the Feat very OP and goes beyond the description of the feat.
Think of how much more powerful animal companions and familiars could be if you could swap out feats and re-arrange stats for super-optimization? From a balance perspective (and feat or class ability value) this would be a huge spike in value.

The player is given a very minor influence to optimize ACs based upon training/tricks and magic items, I would say the same goes for NPCs gained by this feat.

Roberta Yang wrote:
I don't see any point in drawing a distinction between class features and the standard feats from gaining levels. They're both a part of my character; why do they act differently with respect to whether I or the GM makes the decisions?

No, they are not part of your character, the feat is. In the end they are still NPCs (the province of the DM). If he lets you control them, great - that is something he is doing for ease of play, to make you happy, etc - his reasons.

That doesn't change the fact that they are still NPCs in the most basic definition of the term, i.e. NON-PLAYER characters.

I think the approach of the DM creating the NPC, and managing it as such (following the conditions of Leadership) is perfectly acceptable, and should (imo) be the way that it's done.


Leadership is the best feat ever. If some other feat is better, make your cohort take it.

Not counting leadership, it's Craft Wondrous Item. Although it's much better to take Leadership for a Craft Wondrous Item cohort :P


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Auxmaulous wrote:
In the end they are still NPCs (the province of the DM).

Oh, I agree entirely with that conclusion. What I object to is the argument that the reason the GM is the one who handles the cohort is that Leadership is granted by a general feat rather than a class feature. There's no real logic behind it (why does it matter whether it's a general feat or a class feature? When did being a general feat mean the player loses control over it?) and it creates stupid leaks (like implying that if you do use one of a handful of methods of taking Leadership as a class feature then you suddenly get to hand-build and run the cohort like a full new PC). A good conclusion doesn't justify a bad argument.


I like feats that give great color...

for anybody w good acrobatics... "roll with it" from the Goblins of Golaron book... for non-gobbos you'd have to take that heritage feat BUT anytime you get hit with a melee weapon, you can make an acrobatics roll - the dammage you want to avoid, then if ya make it, move yourself 1 ft per point of damage in a straight line of your choice. your staggered for your next round... but buy a ring of furious action, and 5 times a day you can negate that problem as a swift action. monks and ninjas and rogues should get this as a class feat...

backflipping away from dammage anyone? how movie cool is that?

for the most bad assed TWF halfling fighter on the planet... risky striker+phirana strike at 8th lev -2 ac, -2 to hit but +8 dammage on every attack.

I also like improved sheild bash for the bull rush and improved bull rush just to let your fighter bounce people around the map... was thinking of making some kind of giant type fighter and giving him some kind of true strike item so when he hits people, it knocks em 40 ft. etc.

Shadow Lodge

as a player i dont ever use leadership. i think its to powerful to be used, and it should just be removed from the system. if a gm wants you to have an npc following you around, then he will grant you one.

now ill admit i make POWERFUL characters, i never play weak characters unless im in a non combat mood. having one powerful character is good fun, but then getting one more to cover the short commings of the main character, way to powerful for most games.

i think the best feat, besides leadership, is quicken spell like ability. having that on a monster, or even a player character is such a game changer. you will ramp up your combat abilities with quicken truestrike, quicken wish, quicken scorching ray, well anything really...
that one feat can make a cr5 into a cr10.

Shadow Lodge

Roberta Yang wrote:
Auxmaulous wrote:
In the end they are still NPCs (the province of the DM).
Oh, I agree entirely with that conclusion. What I object to is the argument that the reason the GM is the one who handles the cohort is that Leadership is granted by a general feat rather than a class feature. There's no real logic behind it (why does it matter whether it's a general feat or a class feature? When did being a general feat mean the player loses control over it?) and it creates stupid leaks (like implying that if you do use one of a handful of methods of taking Leadership as a class feature then you suddenly get to hand-build and run the cohort like a full new PC). A good conclusion doesn't justify a bad argument.

Pretty much this.

Silver Crusade

5 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion Subscriber

Best proof that Internet is for negativity: Start a thread about what's best, end up with people arguing why Leadership is badwrong.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Gorbacz wrote:
Best proof that Internet is for negativity: Start a thread about what's best, end up with people arguing why Leadership is badwrong.

The Internet is for porn, but negativity is definitely a runner up.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Trolling would take third place, I assume.


Harrumph!

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion Subscriber

Trolling is an art, so I guess it falls under ... porn, which is art as well.


Icyshadow wrote:
Trolling would take third place, I assume.

Trolling is a subcategory of negativity. It's definitely high on the list though.

Cheliax

Cosmopolitan is also a very good feat, it allows you to take any two Cha, Int, or Wis based skills and makes them class skills. It's a great way to get Perception as a class skill, the extra languages are just gravy on the cake. My Wizard in a Serpent's Skull game took this feat at first level and, and along with a trait bonus, could speak something like seven languages.


Marik Whiterose wrote:
Cosmopolitan is also a very good feat, it allows you to take any two Cha, Int, or Wis based skills and makes them class skills. It's a great way to get Perception as a class skill, the extra languages are just gravy on the cake. My Wizard in a Serpent's Skull game took this feat at first level and, and along with a trait bonus, could speak something like seven languages.

I rather get the additional traits feat over cosmopolitan. Unless you really want the languages.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Cosmopolitan, Dodge, Toughness, Improved Initiative, Blind-Fight, Natural Spell, Extra Channeling, Ironhide(dwarf, orc, half-orc), Steal Soul(Dwarf), Quicken Spell, Expanded Arcana, Extra Traits, Spell Perfection, Catflok Exempler(Catfolk), Angel Wings(Aasimar), Angelic Flesh(Aassimar), Power Attack, Power Shot, Long-Nose Form(Tengu),Tengu Raven Form(Tengu), Armor of the Pit(Tiefling), Fiend Sight(Tiefling), Weapon Finesse, Eldritch Claws, Quicken Channeling,Improved Blind-Fight, Greater Blind-Fight, Extra Revelation, Extra Hex, Extra Bombs, Spider Step, Cloud Step, Shadow Strike, Defensive Combat Training, and also those feats that make dimension door more useful

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Marik Whiterose wrote:
Cosmopolitan is also a very good feat, it allows you to take any two Cha, Int, or Wis based skills and makes them class skills. It's a great way to get Perception as a class skill, the extra languages are just gravy on the cake. My Wizard in a Serpent's Skull game took this feat at first level and, and along with a trait bonus, could speak something like seven languages.

omgwtf

Shadow Lodge

Jiggy wrote:
Marik Whiterose wrote:
Cosmopolitan is also a very good feat, it allows you to take any two Cha, Int, or Wis based skills and makes them class skills. It's a great way to get Perception as a class skill, the extra languages are just gravy on the cake. My Wizard in a Serpent's Skull game took this feat at first level and, and along with a trait bonus, could speak something like seven languages.
omgwtf

*snorts soda*

O.o


Orthos wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Marik Whiterose wrote:
Cosmopolitan is also a very good feat, it allows you to take any two Cha, Int, or Wis based skills and makes them class skills. It's a great way to get Perception as a class skill, the extra languages are just gravy on the cake. My Wizard in a Serpent's Skull game took this feat at first level and, and along with a trait bonus, could speak something like seven languages.
omgwtf

*snorts soda*

O.o

I love cake gravy!


Marik Whiterose wrote:
Cosmopolitan is also a very good feat, it allows you to take any two Cha, Int, or Wis based skills and makes them class skills. It's a great way to get Perception as a class skill, the extra languages are just gravy on the cake. My Wizard in a Serpent's Skull game took this feat at first level and, and along with a trait bonus, could speak something like seven languages.

I think you might have inteded to say "icing on the cake" =)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Gignere wrote:
Marik Whiterose wrote:
Cosmopolitan is also a very good feat, it allows you to take any two Cha, Int, or Wis based skills and makes them class skills. It's a great way to get Perception as a class skill, the extra languages are just gravy on the cake. My Wizard in a Serpent's Skull game took this feat at first level and, and along with a trait bonus, could speak something like seven languages.
I rather get the additional traits feat over cosmopolitan. Unless you really want the languages.

Cosmopolitan is the only way in the game (other than maybe some Campaign Traits) to add Perception as a class skill. Since which campaign traits you're actually allowed is controlled by...well, the Campaign, that makes Cosmopolitan the only guaranteed available method.

Silver Crusade

Chris Kenney wrote:
Gignere wrote:
Marik Whiterose wrote:
Cosmopolitan is also a very good feat, it allows you to take any two Cha, Int, or Wis based skills and makes them class skills. It's a great way to get Perception as a class skill, the extra languages are just gravy on the cake. My Wizard in a Serpent's Skull game took this feat at first level and, and along with a trait bonus, could speak something like seven languages.
I rather get the additional traits feat over cosmopolitan. Unless you really want the languages.
Cosmopolitan is the only way in the game (other than maybe some Campaign Traits) to add Perception as a class skill. Since which campaign traits you're actually allowed is controlled by...well, the Campaign, that makes Cosmopolitan the only guaranteed available method.

Religion trait: eyes and ears of the city (Abadar)

Andoran

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
The Internet is for porn, but negativity is definitely a runner up.

Linkified.

Cheliax

Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:
Marik Whiterose wrote:
Cosmopolitan is also a very good feat, it allows you to take any two Cha, Int, or Wis based skills and makes them class skills. It's a great way to get Perception as a class skill, the extra languages are just gravy on the cake. My Wizard in a Serpent's Skull game took this feat at first level and, and along with a trait bonus, could speak something like seven languages.
I think you might have intended to say "icing on the cake" =)

No, I said what I meant. Combining the two terms "It's just gravy" and "Icing on the cake". It was meant in jest.

Riuken wrote:
Religion trait: eyes and ears of the city (Abadar)

But what if you don't worship Abadar?


Marik Whiterose wrote:
Riuken wrote:
Religion trait: eyes and ears of the city (Abadar)
But what if you don't worship Abadar?

You can be born in Magnimar and take Underbridge Dweller (Varisia, Birthplace of Legends). Or be adopted by dwarves. Other than that, you're out of luck.


Chris Kenney wrote:
Gignere wrote:
Marik Whiterose wrote:
Cosmopolitan is also a very good feat, it allows you to take any two Cha, Int, or Wis based skills and makes them class skills. It's a great way to get Perception as a class skill, the extra languages are just gravy on the cake. My Wizard in a Serpent's Skull game took this feat at first level and, and along with a trait bonus, could speak something like seven languages.
I rather get the additional traits feat over cosmopolitan. Unless you really want the languages.
Cosmopolitan is the only way in the game (other than maybe some Campaign Traits) to add Perception as a class skill. Since which campaign traits you're actually allowed is controlled by...well, the Campaign, that makes Cosmopolitan the only guaranteed available method.

Read guide to the traits there are actually a few traits that adds perception.

Silver Crusade

Fey Foundling. Gets an extra 2 points per die of healing.

Good for anyone who has healing of any sort that uses dice to generate the number of points healed.

Great for paladins who can heal themselves as a swift action, and gain a new die every two levels!


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Aelryinth wrote:


I preferred my Empowered Energized Twinned Admixtured Split Ray'd Magic Missile converted to Rays off my Force Missile Mage/Spellwarp Sniper, thanks. 108d4+108 dmg to undead, 54d8+54 to everyone else, any element you wanted.

Yes, Arcane Thesis was the best feat for blasters.

==Aelryinth

More effective, yes, but not as fun as getting to say, "searing flaming fiery fireballs." :)

(Plus my DMs would have made me actually roll and sum 108d4. I mean, I probably have 108 d6s, but not d4s.)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Gignere wrote:
Chris Kenney wrote:
Gignere wrote:
Marik Whiterose wrote:
Cosmopolitan is also a very good feat, it allows you to take any two Cha, Int, or Wis based skills and makes them class skills. It's a great way to get Perception as a class skill, the extra languages are just gravy on the cake. My Wizard in a Serpent's Skull game took this feat at first level and, and along with a trait bonus, could speak something like seven languages.
I rather get the additional traits feat over cosmopolitan. Unless you really want the languages.
Cosmopolitan is the only way in the game (other than maybe some Campaign Traits) to add Perception as a class skill. Since which campaign traits you're actually allowed is controlled by...well, the Campaign, that makes Cosmopolitan the only guaranteed available method.
Read guide to the traits there are actually a few traits that adds perception.

Read what I wrote. None of those are as good as a flat +3 bonus that Cosmopolitan can grant to anyone, outside of a few campaign traits. Lots of circumstantial-at-best one-off bonuses, and one trait requiring you to be a Taldan Dwarf. not really in the same league, or even aimed at the same characters.


Chris Kenney wrote:
Gignere wrote:
Chris Kenney wrote:
Gignere wrote:
Marik Whiterose wrote:
Cosmopolitan is also a very good feat, it allows you to take any two Cha, Int, or Wis based skills and makes them class skills. It's a great way to get Perception as a class skill, the extra languages are just gravy on the cake. My Wizard in a Serpent's Skull game took this feat at first level and, and along with a trait bonus, could speak something like seven languages.
I rather get the additional traits feat over cosmopolitan. Unless you really want the languages.
Cosmopolitan is the only way in the game (other than maybe some Campaign Traits) to add Perception as a class skill. Since which campaign traits you're actually allowed is controlled by...well, the Campaign, that makes Cosmopolitan the only guaranteed available method.
Read guide to the traits there are actually a few traits that adds perception.
Read what I wrote. None of those are as good as a flat +3 bonus that Cosmopolitan can grant to anyone, outside of a few campaign traits. Lots of circumstantial-at-best one-off bonuses, and one trait requiring you to be a Taldan Dwarf. not really in the same league, or even aimed at the same characters.

Shrug if you really want perception that badly you can make the fluff fit the traits. If you want skills besides the ones covered by Cosmopolitan the Extra Traits feat is way better than Cosmopolitan, like what if you want to add stealth or even disable device. The versatility of the Extra Traits, is much greater than Cosmopolitan.

Hell you can get stuff outside of skills, like reducing 1 spell's metamagic level or increasing your caster level if you are multiclassing, +2 to initiative. Cosmopolitan can't even come close to the versatility of Extra Traits.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Gignere wrote:
Shrug if you really want perception that badly you can make the fluff fit the traits. If you want skills besides the ones covered by Cosmopolitan the Extra Traits feat is way better than Cosmopolitan, like what if you want to add stealth or even disable device. The versatility of the Extra Traits, is much greater than Cosmopolitan.

Whether you can reflavor or not is entirely dependent on the GM. In particular, you're going to be hard pressed to find a GM who understands how traits work who is going to be willing to let you grab Campaign traits outside of the current Campaign, and you're going to be hard pressed to find one who will let you bypass racial prerequisites.

Ultimately, for a discussion like this we have to go with RAW. Perception is insanely valuable as a skill - whether or not everyone has enough can make or break an entire party. The way that lets you get it is going to automatically be valued very highly. Does Additional Traits have a bit more versatility? Yes, but there's nothing it does that you can't have already - you just have more of it. Cosmopolitan actually gets you something you can't otherwise have in most campaigns, and that's what gives it the edge.


THe perception trait is "eyes and ears of the city" Basically it says you spent time as part of the city guard. It's really easy to get as part of most backstories. Easier if your DM lets you change the fluff.


Also Valashmai Veteran and Eyes and Ears of the City both grants perception as a class skill and are not campaign traits, both fluff is really easy to fit in most adventurer's background.

In most cases when I want to get class skills I think Additional Traits will be better than Cosmopolitan. Because on top of getting the skill as a class skill I am also getting a +1 trait bonus on top of it.

Silver Crusade

I'm not saying Eyes and Ears of the City is for everyone, just that your statement of "Cosmopolitan is the only way in the game (other than maybe some Campaign Traits) to add Perception as a class skill." was incorrect. Worshiping Abadar isn't for everyone, though I think a disproportionate number of adventurers do because of this trait.

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