Watcher is on the east coast which is in the path of the hurricane.

While I think the worst of it has already passed his location there might still be the trailing edge of the storm causing problems.

- Gauss

My login name: Folkvarthr. My vote: Skype.

Note: I found out that Google Hangout has a memory leak problem when using it to play Roll20. This requires a refresh every 30-120 minutes when it starts to lag.

- Gauss

You interested in joining us for We be Goblins, Gauss?

Hope you are safe Watcher.

I expect he is fine, the storm mostly missed his location. However, there are any number of storm related reasons that could still require his attention.

- Gauss

We Be Goblins as a 1off tonight? sure.

- Gauss

Mmk, link is over here for anyone who wants to join. Start at 6/7pm PST and it'll last maybe an hour or two.

I wish I could have made that one off. I will post the new link once I get rid of the old players so check this thread again on Monday.

Just letting everyone know that one of my computers went boom last night (power supply 'exploded'). While I have (several) backup computers my time will be limited while I deal with the repairs to my primary computer. I will be available for gaming on monday.

A week from monday will be questionable depending on the nature of repairs. I hope to cannibalize one of my backup computers' power supply to get the main computer working. Hopefully any damage to the main computer does not cause that power supply to follow the first power supply into the abyss. On the plus side, I have already tested my main computer's hard drive and there is no damage to it or my gaming data. :)

- Gauss

Gauss, you might want to have your mobo checked out before you go plugging anything else into it. Power Supply errors are the #1 cause of motherboard malfunctions (not counting user error) and can very easily damage not only your motherboard, but also components that are already in place, RAM/HDD/GPU/CPU.

If you don't have the equipment to check it, I suggest you at least disconnect all the major components before hooking up the new power supply. If the motherboard boots and pulls up the BIOS you -should- be fine, just hope that when your power supply went it didn't take anything else with it.

Also, if you do need a fresh power supply, Newegg is having Black November sales, including 450w power supplies for around $50. Pretty good deal all things considered.

Crypteck, I am aware of this (I have a degree in electronics, not completely transferable to computer repair but it helps). I do not have a motherboard checker but I have already unplugged the HDD and other elements. The HDD is fine, already checked it out.

I am figuring it took the motherboard with it and since my motherboard is out of date I will basically be looking for a new computer.

I also confirmed the power supply is what blew (a couple of capacitors blew).

Thanks for the advice and the newegg heads up (I bought my computer's parts from newegg, I like newegg). Worst part of this is that if I have to rebuild my computer and I am unsure of if I can keep it an XP machine when I do that. I am really not looking forward to buying a new OS.

- Gauss

Also, if it helps I've found that PC Part Picker over here is quite helpful when building a new machine.

Down Comforter, you just won my internet with that link. And sorry Gauss, I didn't mean to preach at you there.

I'm available for this Monday, pending more weather disasters. Is the game still on?

Cypteck, np. Actually got a bit of good news, had a friend of mine look over the power supply (he has more recent familiarity with power electronics than I am) and it turns out the damage was on the input side rather than the output. That increases the chances the rest of my computer is undamaged. I will find out tuesday. :)

- Gauss

The game is still on. Gauss you should still be able to keep it as an XP machine. You will just have to replace the old drivers with the drivers for the new equipment. Most companies still make XP drivers even for newer equipment.

If I get to build my new desktop I might go back to XP also since I still have it on my old HD.

Just in case it is needed the link is here.

Out tonight. I have a business meeting.

When speaking to NPC's you have to declare sense motive in my games if you wish to use it. I don't know how you normally do it at your tables so I just wanted to make sure everyone was on the same page.

Since Skype worked so well I intend to have a headset by the next time we play also. :)

Game still on tonight? I'll be there, even if I'm a little late.

If I am indeed late, go ahead and start without me. Same as before, I'll maintain formation at the front behind erastor and work mainly to intercept and pin enemy movements. [url=http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=456809]Here[url] are all of Haugan's stats. Just keep him alive long enough for me to show up.

I'll be there, though I'll need to leave about 30 minutes early.

I will be there of course :)

- Gauss

The game will be on. :)

f!$&ed up the code, no time to fix it, see ya'll tonight.

The game is still on. I am dealing with slight technical issues.

Watcher: Ok, just kick the machine.

- Gauss

So how are we going to handle my new buddy?

Down Comforter, I see the value in what you are trying to do. However, it seems that Cryptek's character Haugan is a 'kill em all' type. I tried to explain that not all goblins are necessarily our enemy but that didn't go over very well. Anyhow, I don't know if you caught this but Cryptek stated that Haugan will let the goblin pass and leave but otherwise will not work with the goblin.

So we have a few choices:
Allow goblin to leave.
Kill goblin.
Have goblin assist us.

We also need to decide how we will handle future battles. We have two issues there.
Issue 1: We attack without ascertaining if they are an enemy.
Issue 2: Do we keep them alive for questioning, we may not need to if we solve issue 1.

- Gauss

I'm obviously going to want to keep the goblin alive given that I am most certainly not a "kill em all" type. Especially since I've negotiated a peace with him and he can help.

I do think we need to differentiate between friend and foe more often. This isn't World's Largest Dungeon, we need be diplomatic and establish good relations with other people. We can't just go hacking and slashing through everything we encounter and then murdering whoever survives.

Goblins, kobolds, drow, orcs and other monsters that typically cause trouble are always assumed to be on their worst behavior. If they show up in civilized cities such as Korsovo, and Absolom they won't be attacked on sight, but they will be watched closely.

They're monsters, and those races as a general rule do plenty to keep that perception and reality alive and real. Savage races like orcs and goblins are NOT welcome in civilized areas, for the most part.

There are lots of exceptions. Trolls and winter wolves are all over the place in Irrisen society, while in Katapesh, pretty much ANYONE is welcome to walk the streets as long as they behave themselves.

But in places like Korvosa or Absalom... nope; orcs and goblins and kobolds and hobgoblins and the like would be brought to the city guard for questioning. If they behaved well... then that's sort of uncharted territory in a lot of cases, but there'll be a LOT fear and nervousness, and it'll be very much on the head of the orc or whatever to be on their best behavior if they don't want to get arrested or attacked.

As far as the idea of "anyone in the dungeon is fair game" I can tell from experience with AP's that not every armed NPC is an enemy.

If the "Well we should have known about ___" comes up, and the NPC that had that info is dead. I will simply let it be known that I made the opportunity available. I won't tell the party how to play the game, but they will have to deal with the consequences of their actions. By the same token if you trust someone that can't be trusted you will have to deal with that also. Choose who you spare or kill carefully is all I can say.

How "good" works in my games. You can kill in self defense and/or the defense of the common folk. You value life so you prefer not to kill*. However that does not mean you have to offer quarter once attacked and/or combat is imminent.

How does that differ from being evil. Evil would kill because it is convenient, even if they know there is an alternate solution, especially if they know it puts their lives in danger.

Example:

Thieves guild members have holed up with hostages, but the mission is on a timer for plot reasons

The heros/antiheros both want the town to do well, and the guild members to not be successful, but the methods for solving the problem will be different.

Good:Goes into the building to save hostages at the expense of risking their lives.

Evil:Burn the building down at no risk to their lives. The hostages are an acceptable loss. It also ensures the time does not run out.

*According to James that may not apply to "monsters".

With all of that aside your alignment does not really matter all that much except for certain classes. For the sake of ease of play we can assume that a good deity would look at things the same way Absolom or Korvosa would.

--------------------------------------------------------
I would suggest the party discuss how you want to handle known enemies, and NPC's that are not known to be enemies

My objection is twofold. First, the saving of a Goblin that had already suffered two Coup's without anyone objecting. It was only after someone took an OOC joke too seriously that time was rewound and the Goblin was brought back to life. That's crap. NPCs die. Get over it. If critical information went with him, too bad. Rewinding time like that to revive someone is Metagaming. I wouldn't expect you to do that for another player, so doing it to a Goblin pissed me off quite badly. The Coup's were declared, and rolled without challenge. Only after they were done did anyone declare opposition. And then time got rewound. That's my primary objection.

My second objection comes from a proverb told to me the first time I tried to run a game. "Do not build glass castles to float in the sky unless you want players to throw rocks through the windows." That means if we miss information, we miss information. It isn't the end of the world, nor does it change our original objective. I have no problem getting information, but for f&!!s sake, our characters have the information they need. Anything else is strictly more icing on the cake. Going out of our way, holding up the game AGAIN, just to learn something we had probably already guessed, would have guessed, or didn't need to guess in the first place. We have a surplus of information, and have done practically nothing about it. Goblins, Bugbears, Demons, mutants and whatever else is attacking the town, and your characters are more interested in saving a single Goblin who, by all the rules, ought to be very, VERY dead.

And again, I'm not interested in being drawn into an argument of alignments.

As for my character, he's a stubborn bigot. I can't imagine a situation in which he would be willing to fight with a Goblin at his side.

We did the same thing with the coup de grace as happened previously with Tsuto. You had no complaints then. The only difference here was that we had to roll for it whereas previously I was convinced it would be best to have everyone's input rather than roll for it.

As for the "proverb", that's just odd. Why would we be playing if we didn't want to be more immersed in what is happening? It's not fantasy murder simulator and I for one enjoy learning about exactly what's going on and converting an enemy into an ally makes it all the better. Your character's bigotry is fine if that's who he is, but realize that it will bring him into conflict with the party and others. Especially when he threatens to murder someone because he's racist.

Two coup's? There was only one. I made the Coup. While I rolled 3 'attacks' I was only using the damage since a Coup is an autohit and autocrit. As for time being rewound, I went out of turn. That was MY bad. I did not give Tellian time to stop me. So when he wanted to I stated that I had gone out of turn and he should have the option to stop me.

Regarding the second objection. I agree we do not need to interview every person and we do need to speed up the interview process. But it does need to happen. I do not believe we have all the information. We do NOT know who the enemy is. We know it is some dude leading the tribes. Where is he? Who is he? What is he? (Answer to the last is he is a medium humanoid looking person, maybe human but the reports have varied).

We do need more information. We do not need to buddy up to each of them though. We also need to ask first, kill second. It can be much harder to ask questions of people you just kicked the crap out of.

Crypteck, in general you can make any kind of character you want. But if you make a character that will cause problems with the group either the group or the character should be re-examined, usually the character since it is a minority. It is one reason I generally state that players should figure out how and why they get along before a campaign starts. I do not like wasting campaign time on interpersonal conflicts. (Note: it is a waste of time to me, others like that sort of thing.)

- Gauss

I did have an objection when we did this with Tsuto, and because this is basically a repeat of that entire incident I will make it simple. Getting stuck asking "what to do" with an NPC is the problem. Taking captives isn't an option not matter how many times you suggest it. Beating, then questioning, then killing is no more an option than taking captives. If killing Goblins is morally ambiguous, then letting them live only if they have information to give us must be evil. How is the life of the Goblin with information to give us any more valuable than the Goblin that tried to fling molten glass at us? And if we're just going to kill them anyway, isn't it cruel to force them to divulge under the pretense that they're saving their lives? If you save one, you have a moral obligation to save them all.

I do not believe it is so unreasonable that a NG fighter is unwilling to overlook his own nearsightedness enough to let a Goblin into the party. Lets be clear here, being a racist in D&D is nothing like being a racist in real life. Goblins have been making a bad name for themselves long before my character was born. Maybe these specific Goblins aren't deserving of Haugan's hate, but you cannot call him wrong when Goblins steal and murder all across the map every single day.

Seriously? Taking captives should always be an option unless we are under imminent threat of death. Any Good character would recognize that. A goblin that is weaponless and holding information is a viable interrogation subject or prisoner as it presents no threat compared to the goblin throwing molten glass about. In what realm of the imagination is allowing someone to live evil when killing them is morally ambiguous?

You cannot tell us we cannot get into arguments about alignment when everything you just said is about the morality of killing people. By your argument, my character could grow up in a region that hates humans and would be totally justified in butchering humans while being "NG".

As it stands, Tellian has no issue killing goblins and others to advance himself because that's who he is and because he deserves to be LE. You cannot advocate murder, the execution of prisoners, and attacking people without question while being Good. It just doesn't work that way.

We are, however, off topic.

Tellian will continue to secure prisoners and allies that he deems useful. Gauss will agree that it can be worthwhile to learn from those we encounter rather than running in blind.

I will speak with Watcher in private regarding how worthwhile it will be to interrogate someone so that we do not get bogged down with interrogations during sessions. Failing that, I can handle these things via PM's and the like outside of the game.

Well, since nothing I do will stop the NPC from joining the party, I'm retiring Haugan. With this many warm bodies in the party a designated tank is no longer necessary. I'll ask Watcher if he will let me reroll my character at this point. If not I'll be withdrawing.

The plan wasn't to have him join the party as a member. I wanted him as an ally among our enemies, not as someone who will come along with us and fight...

I talked to Jman today. He said he wont be returning. He cited the slow speed at which we were playing as a major reason.

- Gauss

Regardless of how you wanted him into the party, he's still going to show up in combat, and probably have something to do. Which is good. He has 4 arms, natural armor, and fast healing. It would be wasteful to let him in the party, but not involve him in combat. However, if all you're going to do is have him hang around behind the party while we explore, just let him leave. Same with the rest of the prisoners. Having a line of Goblins underfoot is not any way to explore a Dungeon. But clearly you're intent on doing just that. I was unable to talk you out of it, so I'm not going to impede you. Not that I could have since you've already announced that you're taking prisoners rather than letting them flee.

Haugan has no intention of putting up with Goblins in the party, regardless of why they're there. Since he will have nothing to do with the party once a Goblin is brought into it, I have to retire him. If I try to force the subject he'll eventually just walk out of the party himself. Rather than leave the group a person short in the middle of a game, I'm replacing him now. It's the best solution I can come up with, and unless you intend to let the Goblin leave, it's the course I'll be taking.

For whatever reason I can't edit that post. The last bit came out wrong. I -should- do this anyway. Haugan isn't set up for any kind of future build, and in a few levels isn't going to be able to preform in combat against even appropriately challenging encounters. The shield bash and armor spikes combo is amusing, but lacks offensive ability. I need to reroll the character for more than his contentious nature.

Are we really going that slowly? Five sessions of about three hours of gaming (not counting distractions and tangents) each has resulted in a major combat encounter, investigation and interrogations, a dungeon cleared and another halfway(?) done. It's not the fastest game ever, but it is hardly the slowest I've been in.

For what it's worth, I liked Haugen for the most part. I'll do my best to keep interrogations and the like to a minimal amount of time from now on.

DC, we did have a very slow start. As for the last couple of sessions things have picked up. My guess though is that the slow start has been frustrating to some. We have yet to coalesce as a group although we have been making improvements.

- Gauss

My biggest issue is making progress when it's time to progress. It's like we've been fumbling through all the dungeons, and the only time everyone can agree he had an overall success was when we were on the smallest battle map we've yet been on. I think that once we've managed to flesh out our party and are comfortable moving around the map as a group (instead of as a bunch of individuals, though we haven't been doing that poorly in this respect) progress will go much more smoothly.

Also, since Jman has withdrawn I have invited a person I met this week to join us. They appear to have D&D experience, and I've seen them construct very basic concepts using Pathfinder rules, so they may possibly be making an appearance.

Regarding tonight's game, with the possibility of a three person party I'll go ahead and keep Haugan around. Part of the reason I was retiring him was because his only real purpose in a group is to keep enemy attention on himself, a role that I foresaw being minimized as our summoner levels up and as we gain NPC cohorts. However, with the group a person short, and leveling up not yet an option, he still has use as a tank. And I think if we are to have any chance of clearing this dungeon without casualties, his defensive focus and moderate HP will be more useful than the Dwarven Urgrosh Ranger or Archer Ranger I was going to replace him with.

Crypteck, his AC isnt that big a deal with me backing him up.

- Gauss

1. Issues(personal) have come up tonight that won't make the game possible. I do apologize in advance for me not being around. I am clear for the rest of this year however.

2. If anyone has suggestions to speed the game up I am all ears. I do think we are doing a lot better than before now that everyone has their macros in place, and we have started to use skype. I get paid on Friday so I will have a headset. I will also look into why I only have issues when I am in a conference. When I skype with other people, even if they are halfway around the world and the mic and audio are fine. I won't be recruiting to replace Jman though, at least not unless we lose one more player, which I hope does not happen.

Cryptek give me the link to your new build. I will look over it very late tonight or tomorrow. Whatever the value of your gear is now is what you can use for the new character. That will keep things simple. If you have a new icon you would like to use send me a link to my inbox or email it to me.

PS:I am just able to get to a PC. That is the reason for the late notice.

I wasn't around for the initial building stage, so I never got the chance to see all the build rules in one place. It was 20 point-buy if I remember correctly, but was there any other rules I need to know about? I may have been told once when I was building Haugan, but if I was I can't find any record of it.

Cryptek: Link here

- Gauss

Thanks Gauss. I was under the impression that Gunslingers were banned, but I don't see anything about them at all. Was my initial assumption correct, or are Gunslingers allowed?

I have banned them from my campaign. To my knowledge Watcher has not banned them from his.

- Gauss

Ah, maybe that's where I got the impression. In fact, I recall the conversation now and as usual I was mistaken.

Watcher, so you don't want to add a fourth player to this campaign? Because if I'm not mistaken (again), we only have a party of 3 right now. Or am I not counting someone?

We have 4: Crypteck, Gauss, Down Comforter, and Khantin. Although Khantin is quiet on the thread he is there at every game.

- Gauss