In Service to Lore...Two Runs, Two Nearly Avoided Party Wipes


GM Discussion

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The Exchange 5/5

Christopher Rowe wrote:
To be clear, I don't think I'm changing this map. My honest and confident interpretation of the graphics of that map is that the eaves are meant to be visually interpreted as five foot overhangs. Everything I know about real alleys, and real roofs, points me that direction.

My point is from your earlier comment: "...though I know I'm in the minority from what I've read here...".

In PFS we as table judges give up a little of our freedom to individually interpret what in written. We try to do things the same way - to reduce YMMV. If I were to say - "I realize that most judges will do it like XXX, but I feel that it should be done YYY" I am not reducing YMMV. I personally feel that a cleric with Create Water is one of the best fire-fighting tools around. (He "pumps" out as much water as a fire hose!) But that is NOT the way it's done in PFS. If I run it my way, KNOWING the majority of the other judges are doing it differently... we get YMMV. and the players who play for you, when they in turn run this for other players will say..."when I played this, my judge who is really good and knows his stuff ran it as a 15' wide ally." ...
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Just something to think about. I'm not there, and I'm just a table judge - you run it as you see fit. You're the table judge - it's your responsibility.

1/5 Contributor

Well, I have to do what I think is correct, judicious, and wise. In this case, looking at the situation in hand through all three lenses yields the same result for me.

The Exchange 5/5

Christopher Rowe wrote:
Well, I have to do what I think is correct, judicious, and wise. In this case, looking at the situation in hand through all three lenses yields the same result for me.

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so then you should be showing the rest of us where we are doing it wrong, so that we can correct our wrong way of viewing this.

By the way, if the ally is uniformly 15' wide, with overhangs from the buildings, this makes the third building in on the south side be over half overhang. It is shown as having a roof 25' east-west and 10' north-south, of which you are saying 5' north south is overhang. Unless it is also overhanging the pavement south of the ally, in which case it has no ground floor at all. ;)

The pavement is plainly marked. Buildings are also. Overhangs (such as the third building on the north side) are less then 2'. Your interpretation would have the overhangs be 5' on some (most) buildings, and 0' on others... and which overhang and which do not? And why does the area that the PCs begin in NOT fall under any of the overhangs you see? The PCs are restricted to starting in a 10' area, because that is how wide the ally is there...

Why do you feel that the ally is uniformly 15' wide?

1/5 Contributor

nosig wrote:
so then you should be showing the rest of us where we are doing it wrong, so that we can correct our wrong way of viewing this.

I "should" be? No, I don't think I'm under any such onus.

I'll let folks know how it goes tonight if I wind up running this (I'm the backup in case we have too many people for one table.)

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Charleston

EAVES-DROPPING, are we? Well, look out! Somebody is going to come by and is going to want their eave!

The Exchange 5/5

Christopher Rowe wrote:
nosig wrote:
so then you should be showing the rest of us where we are doing it wrong, so that we can correct our wrong way of viewing this.

I "should" be? No, I don't think I'm under any such onus.

I'll let folks know how it goes tonight if I wind up running this (I'm the backup in case we have too many people for one table.)

???

Ok - you lost me on this one.

are you not playing the same campaign as the rest of us? If I am doing something wrong, do you not feel you should point this out to me? To help me do it correctly? Isn't that the reason we come here to the boards, to share knowledge and learn? If you don't tell me when I am doing something wrong, how will I correct the way I do it?

This is why I responded to your post above. I feel that one of us is doing this wrong - as we are plainly doing it differently. If you are correct, I need to change the way I run this. Do you have no interest in helping me be a better table judge?

1/5 Contributor

Nah, I don't think anybody would find it productive or helpful if I said much more than I have already. I see them as overhanging eaves.

We only had seven folks tonight, so it didn't come up anyway.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Christopher Rowe wrote:

Nah, I don't think anybody would find it productive or helpful if I said much more than I have already. I see them as overhanging eaves.

We only had seven folks tonight, so it didn't come up anyway.

Just a point for you to think about, Christopher: When do you find a 15' wide alley in medieval environments?

You are lucky if the street is 15' wide.

15' wide alleys are uncommon, even in modern cities. Remember that that is wide enough for two cars to pass each other.

The Exchange 5/5

kinevon wrote:
Christopher Rowe wrote:

Nah, I don't think anybody would find it productive or helpful if I said much more than I have already. I see them as overhanging eaves.

We only had seven folks tonight, so it didn't come up anyway.

Just a point for you to think about, Christopher: When do you find a 15' wide alley in medieval environments?

You are lucky if the street is 15' wide.

15' wide alleys are uncommon, even in modern cities. Remember that that is wide enough for two cars to pass each other.

The only thing I can figure is that he is drawing it. If he put the Map Pack sheets out he would have to draw lines down to indicate which buildings are overhanging and which are not - and as I pointed out, one of the "overhangs" is half the width of the building (the third building in on the south side).

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Unless I am miss reading the map. Anyone else seeing it as having overhangs? which buildings overhang the ally? This is important, as several times when I have run this (and played it) I have had Rogues climb the buildings to get to the roofs. If there are overhangs, I would need to tell the Rogue PC that he can't climb there, as that is not a corner, and the roof overhangs (making the climb DC 30).

Shadow Lodge 2/5

I can't see how very many buildings can have close to a 5 foot overhang.

4/5

I also agree this is a tough encounter, having run it three times: one party went down, one party almost did, one party killed it. However, since they don't actually kill the party, all it truly does is show the PCs it can be dangerous out there.
Since the sorcerer is powerful and her tactics are "unusual", the second two times I played her as very chaotic, not caring for her companions at all. After she casts the obscuring mist, I have just had her throw acid at anything she hears in the mist whether it is friend or foe. It makes for a very comical scene as her allies curse at her for hitting them, and she just laughs, since she just wants to cause as much chaos and pain as possible. It also means she is not worried about including her allies in the color spray if a PC gets close, which did help the second party.

Just my take, but it does stick with the tactics and I feel gives it a little more color.

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