The last time that Citizen Maccabee accused me of anti-semitism, let's see, I think it was because I laughed at the idea that the Biblical Jews were any more moral than the Sodomites.
And that was before I even read the Book of Judges!
I don't think I've been accused of anti-semitism in years. Now I feel left out. I mean I don't even believe Israel has a right to exist!
Granted I don't believe any state has any right to exist, but people don't seem to care if I think that about Burundi, Liechtenstein, Turkmenistan, St. Lucia, Vanuatu, or Paraguay and most Americans have to have accidentally learned that at least one of those exists at some point in the past, despite their heroic efforts to the contrary.
Not a fan of Israel either. Does that make me anti-semitic as well?
Vanautu is a beautiful place with very nice people.
I'm not sure why "they" hate precisely. I can speculate. Is it Democracy vs Sharia law?
You realize those aren't opposites right? If 51% of the population wants law based on the Qu'ran then Quranic law is a democratic decision.
The concept you're thinking of is a government that recognizes inaliable rights of the indivdual: which is not something we've always been so good at ourselves.
Is it that they see our culture and are trying to repel it. Do they hate us for supporting guys like Saddam, Khaddafi, Mubarek, the Shah in the 70's? Do they hate us b/c we depose who we want, when we want?All of the above. Also the write in answer that their lives suck and their politicians get them to vent their rage against people who aren't at fault for their lot in life in order to take the heat off themselves. Its a technique you should be familiar with as its what politicians here do: don't get mad at the corporations getting billions in payouts and tax cuts, get mad at someone getting 200 dollars a month in welfare!
I used "Democracy" to imply constitutional government, a republic, people have inalienable rights, all that good stuff.
ONLY getting $200 a month! That guy is getting screwed! ;)
Yes there is dissatisfaction in corporate bailouts/tax breaks but atleast they contribute something to the state and federal treasury and at the same time angst vs people who really "work" the system.
It should not be a Rep/Dem talking point.
This came across my desk today, it seems pretty right on in my opinion. What do you all think?
"The fact is, there are millions if not hundreds of millions of people in the Arab world who share the vision of Osama Bin Laden.
No matter how many times you apologize to them, no matter how many idiotic diplomats you send over there who think they're so wonderful because they went to Berkeley, one thing is clear: They only understand power, and they see that you're weak."
A German daily paper writes today:
"Three years after Obama's speech in Cairo which was supposed to initiate a new beginning in the Middle East, the United States now has even less support in the region than before.
"Naked hatred is raging against the country that millions of people regard as a symbol of freedom.
"When U.S. flags burn, embassies are vandalized and diplomats are murdered, it is an attack on the West and not just America.
"We rooted for the demonstrators at Tahrir Square, and many of us have longed to see democracy in the Arab nations. But democracy includes honoring the lives of fellow humans."
But we know those people can't honor the lives of fellow humans, especially infidels.
They used Obama. They used Hillary. They used the ambassador to get where they are.
And then they killed him."
Came across the "Savage Nation" last night. He stated that the founding fathers created the electoral college because they could foresee a time in which masses of illegal immigrants pouring over the border would take over the government by casting illegal votes. He also stated that liberals = socialists = atheists = evil. Do these sound like the words of a person that anyone would want to quote as being relevant to a civil discourse that actually, constructively is trying to help this country? Wish I had a link, but I am sure the transcript is out on the net somewhere.
Also Aretas, I have to say that I haven't had the same experience that some have stated as to your posts. I...
I'm fairly certain I posted a article from that German magazine not Michael Savage.
He gives his opinions. Since I do not know the context of the remark I don't know how to comment on it.
100's post, Huzzah!
tyrannical regimes in Egypt & Libya including Iraq and Afghanistan.
Iran, Syria & Saudi Arabia come to mind.
The UK, US, Russia an France are responsible of setting up and sustaining those tyrannical governments... Read some history mate.
If you play with snakes don't go running home to "mommy" when one bites you.
I'm aware of the history of the region. After the fall of the Ottoman empire we all know that the other "powers" had a say in the regions future.
My post was not going to delve that far into history, only the past 40 or so years mate.
That is the past 40 years. Interference in the Middle East hasn't changed since the 1800's
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This came across my desk today, it seems pretty right on in my opinion. What do you all think?
"The fact is, there are millions if not hundreds of millions of people in the Arab world who share the vision of Osama Bin Laden.
No matter how many times you apologize to them, no matter how many idiotic diplomats you send over there who think they're so wonderful because they went to Berkeley, one thing is clear: They only understand power, and they see that you're weak."
A German daily paper writes today:
"Three years after Obama's speech in Cairo which was supposed to initiate a new beginning in the Middle East, the United States now has even less support in the region than before.
"Naked hatred is raging against the country that millions of people regard as a symbol of freedom.
"When U.S. flags burn, embassies are vandalized and diplomats are murdered, it is an attack on the West and not just America.
"We rooted for the demonstrators at Tahrir Square, and many of us have longed to see democracy in the Arab nations. But democracy includes honoring the lives of fellow humans."
But we know those people can't honor the lives of fellow humans, especially infidels.
They used Obama. They used Hillary. They used the ambassador to get where they are.
And then they killed him."
It's weird. Michael Savage and Citizen Aretas read the same German newspapers.
It's already been said, but, those tyrannical regimes the US "liberated"?
My apologies, Citizen Byers, but this isn't the first time that Citizen Aretas has reposted, in toto, articles that he has found without attribution.
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I heard about that in the news recently. Really brightened up my day, if you know what I mean* by that.
* = Now to explain the joke. Since I am Finnish and live in Finland, Russia getting more powerful can only be bad news for me in the long run.
You're Finnish? And you're worried about Russia? Why? The last time Russia invaded Finland, you guys were hilariously out-manned and even more hilariously out-gunned...and you proceeded to hand the Russians a hilarious ass-beating.
As long as your nation can produce guys like Simo Hayha (am I spelling that right?), aka, "The White Death", I wouldn't worry too much about Russia.
I'm pretty sure the Russian military finds that it suddenly has no feeling in its buttocks at the very thought of tangling with you guys again...if I had been so thoroughly humiliated, I would, too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5CaQ37VYvw
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The last time that Citizen Maccabee accused me of anti-semitism, let's see, I think it was because I laughed at the idea that the Biblical Jews were any more moral than the Sodomites.
And that was before I even read the Book of Judges!
I don't think I've been accused of anti-semitism in years. Now I feel left out. I mean I don't even believe Israel has a right to exist!
Granted I don't believe any state has any right to exist, but people don't seem to care if I think that about Burundi, Liechtenstein, Turkmenistan, St. Lucia, Vanuatu, or Paraguay and most Americans have to have accidentally learned that at least one of those exists at some point in the past, despite their heroic efforts to the contrary.
Not a fan of Israel either. Does that make me anti-semitic as well?
Vanautu is a beautiful place with very nice people.
There's a difference between saying you're not a fan of a country and its people, and saying you're not a fan of its policies and practices. So no, I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. That being said, if someone repeatedly posted anti-Israel comments while never commenting on the innumerable horrors going on in other countries, then yeah I'll point that finger.
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There's a difference between saying you're not a fan of a country and its people, and saying you're not a fan of its policies and practices. So no, I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. That being said, if someone repeatedly posted anti-Israel comments while never commenting on the innumerable horrors going on in other countries, then yeah I'll point that finger.The last time that Citizen Maccabee accused me of anti-semitism, let's see, I think it was because I laughed at the idea that the Biblical Jews were any more moral than the Sodomites.
And that was before I even read the Book of Judges!
I don't think I've been accused of anti-semitism in years. Now I feel left out. I mean I don't even believe Israel has a right to exist!
Granted I don't believe any state has any right to exist, but people don't seem to care if I think that about Burundi, Liechtenstein, Turkmenistan, St. Lucia, Vanuatu, or Paraguay and most Americans have to have accidentally learned that at least one of those exists at some point in the past, despite their heroic efforts to the contrary.
Not a fan of Israel either. Does that make me anti-semitic as well?
Vanautu is a beautiful place with very nice people.
I just got used to picking on them specifically because on conservative forums they are on a pedestal that needs torn down
@Citizen Maccabee: Well, go ahead and point, then.
Who's repeatedly making anti-Israel comments without talking about the innumerable horrors going on in Arabic regimes? Inquiring minds would like to know.
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I've been thinking for a couple of years now that Islam was heading towards a Reformation period. They need their Martin Luther.Islam kind of did. The modern Islamic conservative movement among Sunni Muslims is Salafism (occasionally called Wahhabism, although rarely so by followers), a movement that dates back to the 18th century and claims to be a return to early Islamic practice, rejecting the supposed decadence and decay of other, generally more-moderate forms of Islam.
No expert on Luther, but I don't really remember him adding all that much to the history of religious tolerance and peaceable coexistence.
I heard about that in the news recently. Really brightened up my day, if you know what I mean* by that.
* = Now to explain the joke. Since I am Finnish and live in Finland, Russia getting more powerful can only be bad news for me in the long run.
You're Finnish? And you're worried about Russia? Why? The last time Russia invaded Finland, you guys were hilariously out-manned and even more hilariously out-gunned...and you proceeded to hand the Russians a hilarious ass-beating.
As long as your nation can produce guys like Simo Hayha (am I spelling that right?), aka, "The White Death", I wouldn't worry too much about Russia.
I'm pretty sure the Russian military finds that it suddenly has no feeling in its buttocks at the very thought of tangling with you guys again...if I had been so thoroughly humiliated, I would, too.
Simo Hayha is perhaps one of the most incredible stories I have ever come across. I'm honestly surprised no one has made a movie about him.
No expert on Luther, but I don't really remember him adding all that much to the history of religious tolerance and peaceable coexistence.Neither have Salafists. For example, Saudi Arabia is a Salafist regime. (In fact, the founding father of the Saudi royal family, Muhammad ibn Saud, was a close friend and ally to Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab, founder of Salafism.) Also, far-right Islamist terror groups (al-Qaeda included) also identify as Salafists, but most Salafists treat them the same way that Evangelicals treat Christian Identity (Christian white supremacists) types or the people who blow up abortion clinics. There's another parallel, in that most Salafists don't have much in common with Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab (the founder of Salafism/Wahhabism), and would reject being called Wahhabists, the same way most Protestants no longer have much in common with Luther or Lutherans other than not being Catholic.
Yeah, I should have been more selective with the quotes and what I was responding to.
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As posted by others:
1. Arab governments using the US as a Scapegoat
2. Poverty
3. Fundamentalism
4. The US's historical backing of dictators
5. The US's toppling of democratically elected governments
6. Ongoing warfare
7. The US's continues meddling (regardless of the intentions) in the middle-east.
Did I miss anything?
I think that all of these factors has created an atmosphere of resentment. The Youtube video is simply being used as a rallying cry. It's simply the latest slight (either real or imagined) that many Arabs have had to put up with in their life times. And so a small number of Arabs (urged on by fundamentalist factions) are rioting.
If this was a pan-arab/pan-muslim movement as Aretas' orginal post suggested "millions if not hundreds of millions of people" then there would be more American deaths, more embassies destroyed and more people on the streets. Hell if "millions or hundreds of millions of people" wanted to do anything then it would simply be done.
This unfortunately is the disenfranchised lashing out with deadly effect.
Is the answer violence? No. But I've lived through riots and seen mob mentality first hand. There is no rhyme or reason, only hatred and the fear that the mob might turn on you.
Just my 2-cents.
-TM
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I heard about that in the news recently. Really brightened up my day, if you know what I mean* by that.
* = Now to explain the joke. Since I am Finnish and live in Finland, Russia getting more powerful can only be bad news for me in the long run.
You're Finnish? And you're worried about Russia? Why? The last time Russia invaded Finland, you guys were hilariously out-manned and even more hilariously out-gunned...and you proceeded to hand the Russians a hilarious ass-beating.
As long as your nation can produce guys like Simo Hayha (am I spelling that right?), aka, "The White Death", I wouldn't worry too much about Russia.
I'm pretty sure the Russian military finds that it suddenly has no feeling in its buttocks at the very thought of tangling with you guys again...if I had been so thoroughly humiliated, I would, too.
Simo Hayha is perhaps one of the most incredible stories I have ever come across. I'm honestly surprised no one has made a movie about him.
he got a song at least
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It's technically an invasion. Just without any violence.Its not as if they will bother invading...they will just buy your government. You would be surprised what elected and appointed officials are prepared to do for rich people who invite them to snort caviar off a twelve year old.I heard about that in the news recently. Really brightened up my day, if you know what I mean* by that.
* = Now to explain the joke. Since I am Finnish and live in Finland, Russia getting more powerful can only be bad news for me in the long run.
Its not an invasion...its a party. And as long as they bring Caviar and Hookers for the Elected leaders at the party...they will always be welcome...maybe not by you but apparently you don't count. Serves you right for not having caviar and hookers.
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I love it when YD takes detailed notes from his personal campaign world design and presents them as historical facts!"PWEEET!" Time out Children! Let yourselves be enlightened.
All religion and Law has a common ground from which it emerged
INDOEUROPEAN ORIGINS OF RELIGION: There are three concepts of Religion here: The Patriarch (where religious beliefs are ingrained in the idea of the head of the family as the spiritual authority and the idea that the 'chief god' - a Sun God at that - is the ultimate head of their family); Faith which involves personal spiritual reflection on the good memories of one's own life - the root-word governing this refers to the childhood memory of light through leaves of an ash tree; and Prophecy (Ritual Singing). This gives us the Religious practices: Prophecy/Singing (Bard), Individual Faith (Druid), Patriarchy (Cleric of the Sun God).
INDOEUROPEAN RELIGIOUS/LEGAL OBLIGATIONS: The obligation of caring for Family Elders, Oaths & Pledges, Use of Boundary Markers, Compensation (The Obligation to pay for an injury), Burial of the Family Dead in Barrow Mounds.
Even though you would characterize the Kurgans as Evil monsters who threw children into pits for hungry dogs to fight over the facts would indicate something more civilized than ourselves.
We all come from that - and we can call each other uncompromising monsters who need to be exterminated but the fact is we have a common ground from which we all strayed.
They are historical Facts. Those are the actual religious and legal beliefs of the Indoeuropeans. Why is it not a fact? because I describe it in D&D terms so you have an easier time understanding it?
The muslim population in Indonesia appears to be becoming radicalized as well. While largely moderate, they have an active nutjob religious conservative population as well. Earlier this year a guy was jailed for being an atheist after being beaten half to death by an angry mob.
I don't know enough about the situation to comment about it in depth, but let's just say it's probably...inaccurate to point to Indonesia and say "hey, they're all muslims there, and they're not violent or intolerant or anything, hence the problem isn't islam".
That's not Reformation in my opinion.
The distinguishing characteristic of Reformation (again, in my opinion) is a move towards greater morality which comes from a belief that one's relation to God has nothing to do with appeals to authority (for example, Reformation was heavily tied to the creation of the printing press which allowed people to read the Bible for themselves).
Nice post DD.
I don't know enough about the situation to comment about it in depth, but let's just say it's probably...inaccurate to point to Indonesia and say "hey, they're all muslims there, and they're not violent or intolerant or anything, hence the problem isn't islam".It's a complex situation.
Yeah, put me in the camp that doesn't exactly think that either India or Indonesia should be held up as shining examples of cross-sectarian harmony.
But, you know, how many places have the protests turned violent? Libya, Egypt, Yemen, Tunisia? Am I missing any? And how many other Arabic/Middle Eastern Islamic countries are there? Anyone notice a pattern?
Seemed the problem in Egypt was that Mubarak wasn't Muslim enough.
This may not be entirely fair, but look what group has taken power there.
Maybe.
But I think the West's past influnces stop once a ballot box comes out, and the people get to decide who will govern them. If it's a real and free election, it's their first step at self governance, and making their own destiny as a country.
If the Muslim Brotherhood got the votes, then it isn't unreasonable to assume their rhetoric was acceptable to enough people to get them elected.
I'm not saying this absolves the West of any involvement. But it's in their hands now.
What happens when cartoons are drawn mocking Muhammad?
People die.
What happens when cartoons are drawn mocking Jesus or Christianity?
Blogging.