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Summoner assistance - how to make a completly OP summoner


Advice


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I've started playing a summoner in my groups Rise of the Runelords campaign and have basically been told by the GM that we are going to get our butt's handed to us in the later books. I would like to avoid this eventuality if at all possible and so come to you, the uber players for some advice. Mainly I would like to know everyone's advice on how to make a completely overpowered summoner(not that I actually want to but the knowledge would come in handy if we started getting in over our heads on this one).

Also some clarification on how the natural attack lineup works. As in the difference between Primary and Secondary natural attacks, if I can take more than one natural attack that is listed as primary per round, that kind o' stuff.

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.


Melungeon wrote:


Also some clarification on how the natural attack lineup works. As in the difference between Primary and Secondary natural attacks, if I can take more than one natural attack that is listed as primary per round, that kind o' stuff.

Each natural attacks is either primary or secondary*.

Primary attacks are made at your BAB (+bonusses) and deal 1*str damage.
Secondary attacks are made at BAB-5, and only deal ½ str damage.

As such, if your Eidolon is relying on natural attacks, you should only choose primary attacks! Furthermore, I would advise you to take several of the same type of attack (preferably claws), since it allows you to utilize feats and abilities that are chosen for a specific weapon type.

* If you use manufactured weapons + natural weapons, then all the natural attacks count as secondary.

Cheliax

How to make an OP summoner in 2 easy steps,

1. pick the summoner class or master summoner archtype
2. and your done

Basically its hard to build a bad summoner, you gain alot of good buffs and you have very good action economy, (more so as a master summoner). However that being said be very very careful when building your eidolon, 9/10 eidolons are illegal (even those built by experienced players)


Make a Master Summoner.
Being able to throw out an army of critters will make your GM work for his PK. You still get the eidolon, though it will be weaker, and more often than not you will be dismissing it in combat so you can field more summons. An added advantage is that Master Summoners get augment summoning as a bonus feat without needing to mee the prerequisite. If your party doesn't have a scout, the eidolon can fill this role well (link ability means ~instant communication, and darkvision is extra useful here).
look into the "aid another" action, and familiarize yourself with the "summon monster" charts and the abilities (and languages) of each. Also, be clear on the alignment templates (axiomatic, entropic, fiendish, resolute).
Focus on keeping out of combat. Don't neglect AC or HP, and if needed, summon monsters to act as meat shields and use aid another to boost your AC

Info on natural attacks:

All info was found here
Natural Attacks

Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon). These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and add the creature’s full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature’s base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type.

Some creatures treat one or more of their attacks differently, such as Dragons, which always receive 1-1/2 times their Strength bonus on damage rolls with their bite attack. These exceptions are noted in the creature’s description.

Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type.

Some creatures do not have natural attacks. These creatures can make unarmed strikes just like humans do. See Table: Natural Attacks by Size for typical damage values for natural attacks by creature size.

Silver Crusade

Melungeon wrote:

I've started playing a summoner in my groups Rise of the Runelords campaign and have basically been told by the GM that we are going to get our butt's handed to us in the later books. I would like to avoid this eventuality if at all possible and so come to you, the uber players for some advice. Mainly I would like to know everyone's advice on how to make a completely overpowered summoner(not that I actually want to but the knowledge would come in handy if we started getting in over our heads on this one).

Also some clarification on how the natural attack lineup works. As in the difference between Primary and Secondary natural attacks, if I can take more than one natural attack that is listed as primary per round, that kind o' stuff.

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Hold on

Silver Crusade

Lvl 1, 20 point buy

Bill The Summoner:
Bill
Human Summoner 1
NN Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +1; Senses Perception +0
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 15, touch 11, flat-footed 14 (+4 armor, +1 Dex)
hp 11 (1d8+2)
Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +3
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Ranged Crossbow, Light +1 (1d8/19-20/x2)
Spell-Like Abilities Summon Monster I (8/day)
Summoner Spells Known (CL 1, -2 melee touch, +1 ranged touch):
1 (3/day) Mage Armor (DC 17), Grease (DC 17)
0 (at will) Message, Mage Hand, Read Magic, Detect Magic
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 7, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 20
Base Atk +0; CMB -2; CMD 9
Feats Augment Summoning, Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Traits Deft Dodger, Indomitable Faith
Skills Acrobatics -1, Climb -4, Escape Artist -1, Fly +3, Ride -1, Spellcraft +4, Stealth -1, Swim -4, Use Magic Device +9
Languages Common
SQ Eidolon Link, Life Link, Share Spells with Eidolon
Combat Gear Bolts, Crossbow (20), Chain Shirt, Crossbow, Light;
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
Bolts, Crossbow - 0/20
Summon Monster I (8/day) (Sp) - 0/8
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Augment Summoning Summoned creatures have +4 to Strength and Constitution.
Eidolon Link (Ex) You have a link with your Eidolon, but share magic item slots.
Life Link (Su) Sacrifice HP to prevent that much damage to your Eidolon.
Share Spells with Eidolon (Ex) Personal spells can be cast on your Eidolon instead.
Spell Focus (Conjuration) Spells from one school of magic have +1 to their save DC.
Summon Monster I (8/day) (Sp) Use summon monster spells as spell-like abilities, with durations measured in minutes instead of rounds.

Ted The Eidolon:
Ted
No Gender Biped (Claws)
NN Medium Outsider
Init +1; Senses Darkvision; Perception +4
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 13, touch 11, flat-footed 12 (+1 Dex, +2 natural)
hp 11 (+1)
Fort +3, Ref +1, Will +2
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft. Reach 5ft (10ft Claws)
Melee Bite (Bite) +4 (1d6+3/x2) and
. . Claw x2 (Claws) +4 x2 (1d6+3/x2)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 16, Dex 12, Con 13, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11
Base Atk +1; CMB +4; CMD 15
Feats Power Attack -1/+2
Skills Climb +7, Fly +5, Perception +4, Stealth +5
Languages Common

--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
. . -none-
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Power Attack -1/+2 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Evolutions Bite, Improved Damage (Claws), Reach (Claws)

Silver Crusade

Lvl 5, 20 Point Buy

Bill:
Bill
Male Human Summoner 5
NN Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +5; Senses Bond Senses (5 rounds/day); Perception +0
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 16, touch 11, flat-footed 15 (+5 armor, +1 Dex)
hp 43 (5d8+10)
Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +6
Defensive Abilities Shield Ally (+2 AC/Saves); Resist Shield Ally (+2 AC/Saves)
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Ranged Crossbow, Light +2 (1d8/19-20/x2)
Spell-Like Abilities Summon Monster III (9/day)
Summoner Spells Known (CL 5, +1 melee touch, +4 ranged touch):
2 (4/day) Glitterdust, Haste (DC 18), Invisibility
1 (6/day) Enlarge Person (DC 17), Mage Armor (DC 18), Grease (DC 18), Shield
0 (at will) Message, Light, Mage Hand, Read Magic, Detect Magic, Guidance
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 7, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 21/23
Base Atk +3; CMB +1; CMD 12
Feats Augment Summoning, Craft Wondrous Item, Improved Initiative, Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Traits Deft Dodger, Indomitable Faith
Skills Acrobatics +0, Climb -3, Escape Artist +0, Fly +8, Ride +0, Spellcraft +8, Stealth +0, Swim -3, Use Magic Device +14
Languages Common
SQ Eidolon Link, Life Link, Share Spells with Eidolon
Combat Gear +1 Chain Shirt, Bolts, Crossbow (20), Crossbow, Light; Other Gear Belt of Giant Strength, +2, Cloak of Resistance, +1, Headband of Alluring Charisma, +2
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
Bolts, Crossbow - 0/20
Bond Senses (5 rounds/day) (Ex) - 0/5
Summon Monster III (9/day) (Sp) - 0/9
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Augment Summoning Summoned creatures have +4 to Strength and Constitution.
Bond Senses (5 rounds/day) (Ex) Share your Eidolon's senses.
Eidolon Link (Ex) You have a link with your Eidolon, but share magic item slots.
Life Link (Su) Sacrifice HP to prevent that much damage to your Eidolon.
Share Spells with Eidolon (Ex) Personal spells can be cast on your Eidolon instead.
Shield Ally (+2 AC/Saves) (Ex) +2 AC and save when within Eidolon's reach.
Spell Focus (Conjuration) Spells from one school of magic have +1 to their save DC.
Summon Monster III (9/day) (Sp) Use summon monster spells as spell-like abilities, with durations measured in minutes instead of rounds.

Ted:
Ted
No Gender Biped (Claws)
NN Medium Outsider
Init +2; Senses Darkvision; Perception +7
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 20, touch 12, flat-footed 18 (+2 Dex, +8 natural)
hp 32 (+4)
Fort +5, Ref +3, Will +4
Defensive Abilities Evasion
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft., Flight (30 feet, Good)
Melee Claw x2 (Claws) +9 x2 (1d8+5/x2) and
. . Claw x2 (Claws) +9 x2 (1d8+5/x2)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 19/21, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11
Base Atk +4; CMB +9; CMD 21
Feats Improved Natural Attack (Claw x2 [Claws]), Power Attack -2/+4
Skills Climb +10, Fly +13, Perception +7, Stealth +9, Swim +10
Languages Common
Other Gear Belt of Giant Strength, +2
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
. . -none-
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Evasion (Ex) No damage on successful reflex save.
Flight (30 feet, Good) You can fly!
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Evolutions Limbs (arms), Claws, Improved Damage (Claws), Reach (Claws), Flight, Improved Natural Armor

Silver Crusade

Lvl 10, 20 Point Buy

Bill:
Bill
Male Human Summoner 10
NN Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +5; Senses Bond Senses (10 rounds/day); Perception +0
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 16, touch 11, flat-footed 15 (+5 armor, +1 Dex)
hp 83 (10d8+20)
Fort +7, Ref +7, Will +10
Defensive Abilities Shield Ally (+2 AC/Saves); Resist Shield Ally (+2 AC/Saves)
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft., Flight (30 feet, Good)
Ranged Crossbow, Light +6/+1 (1d8/19-20/x2)
Spell-Like Abilities Summon Monster V (11/day)
Summoner Spells Known (CL 10, +5 melee touch, +8 ranged touch):
4 (3/day) Teleport, Wall of Stone (DC 23)
3 (5/day) Dimension Door, Black Tentacles, Evolution Surge (DC 21), Magic Fang, Greater (DC 21)
2 (6/day) Barkskin, Glitterdust, Haste (DC 20), Invisibility, Create Pit (DC 21), Evolution Surge, Lesser (DC 20), Summon Eidolon
1 (7/day) Enlarge Person (DC 19), Mage Armor (DC 20), Grease (DC 20), Shield, Unfetter (DC 19)
0 (at will) Message, Light, Mage Hand, Read Magic, Detect Magic, Guidance
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 7, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 22/26
Base Atk +7; CMB +5; CMD 16
Feats Augment Summoning, Craft Wondrous Item, Expanded Arcana (Summoner), Improved Initiative, Leadership (Base Score 18), Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Traits Deft Dodger, Indomitable Faith
Skills Acrobatics +0, Climb -3, Escape Artist +0, Fly +17, Ride +0, Spellcraft +13, Stealth +0, Swim -3, Use Magic Device +21
Languages Common
SQ Aspect, Eidolon Link, Life Link, Maker's Call/Transposition (2/day), Share Spells with Eidolon
Combat Gear +1 Chain Shirt, Bolts, Crossbow (20), Crossbow, Light; Other Gear Amulet of Mighty Fists +2, Belt of Giant Strength, +4, Cloak of Resistance, +2, Headband of Alluring Charisma, +4, Metamagic Rod, Extend, Lesser, Metamagic Rod, Reach, Lesser, Ring of Protection, +1, Wand of Rejuvenate Eidolon, Lesser
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
Bolts, Crossbow - 0/20
Bond Senses (10 rounds/day) (Ex) - 0/10
Maker's Call/Transposition (2/day) (Su) - 0/2
Metamagic Rod, Extend, Lesser - 0/3
Metamagic Rod, Reach, Lesser - 0/3
Summon Monster V (11/day) (Sp) - 0/11
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Aspect (Su) You may take some of your Eidolon's evolution points to add evolutions to yourself.
Augment Summoning Summoned creatures have +4 to Strength and Constitution.
Bond Senses (10 rounds/day) (Ex) Share your Eidolon's senses.
Eidolon Link (Ex) You have a link with your Eidolon, but share magic item slots.
Flight (30 feet, Good) You can fly!
Leadership (Base Score 18) You attract loyal companions and devoted followers.
Life Link (Su) Sacrifice HP to prevent that much damage to your Eidolon.
Maker's Call/Transposition (2/day) (Su) Dimension Door your Eidolon to you or swap places with your Eidolon.
Share Spells with Eidolon (Ex) Personal spells can be cast on your Eidolon instead.
Shield Ally (+2 AC/Saves) (Ex) +2 AC and save when within Eidolon's reach.
Spell Focus (Conjuration) Spells from one school of magic have +1 to their save DC.
Summon Monster V (11/day) (Sp) Use summon monster spells as spell-like abilities, with durations measured in minutes instead of rounds.

Ted:
Ted
No Gender Biped (Claws)
NN Large Outsider
Init +2; Senses Darkvision; Perception +11
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 28, touch 12, flat-footed 26 (+4 armor, +2 Dex, -1 size, +12 natural, +1 deflection)
hp 84 (+32)
Fort +10, Ref +4, Will +6
Defensive Abilities Evasion
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft., Flight (30 feet, Average)
Melee Bite (Bite) +20 (1d8+13/x2) and
. . Claw x2 (Claws) +21 x2 (2d6+13/x2) and
. . Claw x2 (Claws) +21 x2 (2d6+13/x2)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft. (15ft Claw)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 29/33, Dex 14, Con 18, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11
Base Atk +8; CMB +20; CMD 33
Feats Improved Natural Attack (Claw x2 [Claws]), Lunge, Multiattack (Multiattack / Extra Attack), Power Attack -3/+6, Weapon Focus (Claw)
Skills Acrobatics +9, Climb +16, Fly +11, Perception +11, Stealth +9, Swim +16
Languages Common
SQ Devotion +4, Multiattack / Extra Attack
Other Gear Amulet of Mighty Fists +2, Belt of Giant Strength, +4, Ring of Protection, +1
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
. . -none-
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Devotion +4 (Ex) +4 Morale bonus on Will Saves vs. Enchantments.
Evasion (Ex) No damage on successful reflex save.
Flight (30 feet, Average) You can fly!
Lunge -2 to AC for +5' reach
Multiattack / Extra Attack Multiattack or second attack with primary weapon at a -5 penalty.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Evolutions Limbs (arms), Claws, Improved Damage (Claws), Reach (Claws), Flight, Large Size, Bite


Thank you all for your input, keep it coming please! More input is always better!

@HaraldKlak Thank you for your clarification, I was getting tripped up on if you could take multiple primary attacks per round or only one primary and multiple secondaries but I believe you have solved this issue.

@Theinexplicablefuzz I haven't actually looked into master summoner that much, thank you for bringing it to my attention.

@Elamdri I like!

I have been agonizing over the choice of base form as well. Is there any one that outshines the others? My Eidolon is set up as a pouncer right now but we can make any changes before we hit level 2. Also, is it worth a trait to get a wand at first level? I was thinking Lesser Eidolon Rejuvenation.

Silver Crusade

Melungeon wrote:

Thank you all for your input, keep it coming please! More input is always better!

@HaraldKlak Thank you for your clarification, I was getting tripped up on if you could take multiple primary attacks per round or only one primary and multiple secondaries but I believe you have solved this issue.

@Theinexplicablefuzz I haven't actually looked into master summoner that much, thank you for bringing it to my attention.

@Elamdri I like!

I have been agonizing over the choice of base form as well. Is there any one that outshines the others? My Eidolon is set up as a pouncer right now but we can make any changes before we hit level 2. Also, is it worth a trait to get a wand at first level? I was thinking Lesser Eidolon Rejuvenation.

Pouncer builds are good; I prefer Bipeds because they gain 5ft of reach every time their size increases and it's not impossible to have Gargantuan Eidolons at high levels, so we're talking a free reach of 20ft. Also, Bipeds have the best strength score out of all the base builds, so you will max your damage.

With either form, you're going to want to get as many Claw attacks as possible and then dump all your feats and evolutions into improving those claws. Improved Damage Evolution, Improved Natural Attack Feat, Large and then Huge Size, Enlarge Person. It's not unreasonable that you will have 6 claw attacks that do 4d6 of damage with a 20-25ft reach as a biped.

As for summoner, you're a buffer and a controller. Pump Charisma as high as possible. Metamagic Rods are your friend. You are going to want a rod of extend so you can buff your Eidolon with Mage Armor and have it last all day. At higher levels, you can cast it with Barkskin and it will last for an entire dungeon.

You're also going to want to get a metamagic rod of reach, so you can buff your eidolon from a distance.

If you can afford it, a metamagic rod of Dazing is awesome for you. Combine it with a 3rd level wall of fire and make your GM cry.

I think that having a wand of Rejuvenate Eidolon at 1st level would be fine. My GM ban's rich parents, so didn't occur to me.

Just remember:

1: Eidolon Reach is King
2: Buff Claws to be nasty as hell through size and feats
3: Build your summoner as a buffer/Controller mage

and you will pretty much wreck face without even having to go master summoner.


If you like to get reach for your eidolon, you will most likely want Combat Reflexes as a feat as well. Extra AoOs are easy to get when you have reach.

Silver Crusade

^This


Melungeon wrote:

Thank you all for your input, keep it coming please! More input is always better!

@HaraldKlak Thank you for your clarification, I was getting tripped up on if you could take multiple primary attacks per round or only one primary and multiple secondaries but I believe you have solved this issue.

@Theinexplicablefuzz I haven't actually looked into master summoner that much, thank you for bringing it to my attention.

@Elamdri I like!

I have been agonizing over the choice of base form as well. Is there any one that outshines the others? My Eidolon is set up as a pouncer right now but we can make any changes before we hit level 2. Also, is it worth a trait to get a wand at first level? I was thinking Lesser Eidolon Rejuvenation.

I think that build is up to how you want to play your eidolon. it's important to note that for a Mater summoner you will likely want to invest your EP in non-combat abilities like "Mount", or "Skilled" because when combat comes, it will likely sit in your pocket while you summon a horde of celestial dogs.

Master Summoner is slightly more focused as a character because a normal summoner has to choose between their summon monster SLAs or their eidolon ability; they can't have both out at the same time. A master Summoner can have one Summon monster active while their eidolon is out, but must dismiss it before he can cast more.
It's important to realize that the summon monster sla lasts for 1 min/lvl instead of 1 round/lvl, so there arre lots of utility uses for summons.
it's also important to note that eidolons don't heal damage naturally, and if killed, will be returned with 1/2 hit points.

If you go standard summoner, your eidolon base form should depend on how you want it to fight. Pouncers can be built to gain lots of attacks, and can be mounts. bipeds gain more reach, good will saves, and higher starting strength. Eidolons built for attacks are more like rogues than fighters/rangers. they can't wear armor at all, and they get ~3/4th BAB.

Small size isn't bad for a summoner. Bonus to AC is good, and if you use your eidolon as a mount, you don't need to make it large first. Gnomes can make great summoners.

I still strongly suggest Master Summoner. Your eidolon can be death-on-wings, but still won't give you the versatility of casting summon monster spells.


Theinexplicablefuzz wrote:

Eidolons built for attacks are more like rogues than fighters/rangers. they can't wear armor at all, and they get ~3/4th BAB.

...

I don't think you ever built an eidolon out if you think eidolons are like rogues.

If they do half their current damage and have -10 to their AC, than they will be like rogues in combat.

An eidolon can easily match AC with any of the full plate wearers carrying a shield. Yes if they rely on iteratives their damage would suck, but they use natural weapons, which means they use full bab for all their attacks.


Melungeon wrote:
I've started playing a summoner in my groups Rise of the Runelords campaign and have basically been told by the GM that we are going to get our butt's handed to us in the later books.

I'm going to take a different approach and dispute this point. I haven't played high-level yet, so my opinion isn't worth much at this point, but here it is.

Yes, the later parts of RotR look extremely intimidating. My group's near the end of book 1, and I have no idea how they're going to be able to handle the final challenges. But they're going to get more powerful too, and they'll get all kinds of crazy magic items and spells to help them out. These adventures are reviewed and play-tested and it seems silly to me to just say, "Wow, you guys are doomed!" based on a reading of the last book.

If your GM thinks you're incompetent, he can tone things down. If he just likes handing your butts to you, then carry on.

Either way, you should probably look at what the rest of the group is doing and build your summoner appropriately. If you're too far above the ability of the other players, things start to go wrong, and the GM starts to target you specifically. You have a big advantage in being able to adjust the eidolon as you level.


The most important thing about making a Summoner awesome is you. No matter how you spec your Summoner, the Summon Monster spell will be important, whether it's from your SLA or from your spell list. You will cast it, a lot, and you will do horrible, horrible things with it because the Summon Monster line is more powerful than some entire classes.

But, to get that, you have to know your summons, and you have to know how to use it. You need to know when to put a wall of 1d4+2 bison between you and harm, when to bury your enemy in tripping wolves, when you need a big burly earth elemental, and especially when to use the fancier stuff and their abilities. You need to know why Summon Monster V is one of the most potent anti-golem spells in the game (1d4+2 lantern archons; two 1d6 damage touch attacks per round against pathetic golem touch AC bypassing all DR and the spell immunity- it's one of the game's best damage spells), and all that jazz.

Make sure to grab Augment Summons, sure, but also, Superior Summoning. When you summon more than one critter in one shot, call out one more. Helps field a lot of meat.

Silver Crusade

At high levels, I often enjoy summoning a gaggle of T-Rexes

Is it Gaggle for a group of T-Rex? I think it should be if it isn't. It sounds amusing.


One of my favorites, which I don't believe a Summoner can actually do, is a Sorcerer trick. Metamagic Rod: Quicken, use it for a quickened Animal Growth when you summon a T-Rex or brachiosaurus. Instant kaiju.


Lots of good info coming in. I had completely overlooked the multiple summons on the SLA which could indeed be rather handy. Can a standard summoner take the multiple summons or is that just for the master summoner? A friend brought the wild caller to my attention as well, though I'm not sure if it's really what I want to do. Thoughts?

Also this may help a bit. We have in our party: a Knife fighter rogue, a bladebound magus w/ a cane, a cleric, a socr, a fighter, and me.


A word of warning: Saves can be an issue for an eidolon at high levels. I would recommend giving your eidolon a Cloak of Resistance and Iron Will. Nothing stinks more than having an eidolon who is as powerful as godzilla, but then fails a save vs Blasphemy and gets banished for 24 hours. Of course, this means you'll have to find another way of giving your summoner a bonus to his saves... a Robe of the Archmagi is probably a good option.


Gignere wrote:
Theinexplicablefuzz wrote:

Eidolons built for attacks are more like rogues than fighters/rangers. they can't wear armor at all, and they get ~3/4th BAB.

...

I don't think you ever built an eidolon out if you think eidolons are like rogues.

If they do half their current damage and have -10 to their AC, than they will be like rogues in combat.

An eidolon can easily match AC with any of the full plate wearers carrying a shield. Yes if they rely on iteratives their damage would suck, but they use natural weapons, which means they use full bab for all their attacks.

That may have been slightly overstated. A well built rogue will come pretty close to the same AC, especially once magic items are taken into consideration, but what I should have said is that as you level, the relative power of the eidolon becomes less.

Also keep in mind that there is a glowing rune on your head that marks you as the one controlling the eidolon. If you are knocked unconscious, then *poof*, your eidolon is gone.

Having said that, playing a summoner is almost like playing two characters.


The lure of the wild caller has proven too hard to resist. Only issue I can see will be overcoming DR. Ideas?

Lantern Lodge

The following is a level 20 build for summoner that can literally fight butt naked with out any items and makes a great tank.

Race: Half Elf
Class: Summoner (Synthesist Archetype)
Stats: Str = 10
Dex = 10
Con = 17 with racial modifier
Int = 13
Wis = 14
Cha = 14
when leveling add 3 to con and 2 to cha
take the Half Elf Favored Class Option for Summoner
Eidolon's base form Aquatic
Powers obtained via Eidolon = -Fast Healing x4
-Natural Armor x5
-Limbs x3
-Claws x3
-All 5 immunities
Feats = -Extra Evolution x5
-Toughness
-Dodge
-Combat Expertise
-Combat Reflexes
-Resilient Eidolon

this build with no items magical or other wise gives the following statistics at lv 20 when infused with your Eidolon:

Heath = 320 with out Eidolon and 485 when fused with it
Immunity to all damage excluding force, physical, positive and negative
Fast Healing 4
7 attacks a round at full bab each (15)
AC = 51 with out Combat Expertise and 56 with Combat Expertise
Self Healing via Class spell list


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber
Melungeon wrote:

I've started playing a summoner in my groups Rise of the Runelords campaign and have basically been told by the GM that we are going to get our butt's handed to us in the later books. I would like to avoid this eventuality if at all possible and so come to you, the uber players for some advice. Mainly I would like to know everyone's advice on how to make a completely overpowered summoner(not that I actually want to but the knowledge would come in handy if we started getting in over our heads on this one).

Also some clarification on how the natural attack lineup works. As in the difference between Primary and Secondary natural attacks, if I can take more than one natural attack that is listed as primary per round, that kind o' stuff.

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

We're actually running RotRL right now (started this weekend) and we're doing it with only three PC's - a Summoner and two Master Summoners, all half-elven siblings. The Summoner is a little more combat oriented and is building his Eidolon to serve as his mount in combat by 8th level - until then he'll fight alongside of him using a longspear and lots of AoO's. The other two are twins and focus on summoning hordes of foes to overhwelm the enemy.

So far we've breezed through the early part of the AP despite the GM increasing the difficulty of our encounters - but we expect things to get tougher as we make it out of the lower levels. (we discuss it a little here).

I've played a Master Summoner throughout much of the Skull and Shackles campaign to great effect and a standard mounted Summoner since it came out in a homebrew campaign and my latest project is a Wild Caller, so if you have any specific questions, feel free to mail me any time (my reccomendations will be very different from Eldmari).

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