Hey all.
So I will have a character nearing the 12 soft cap soon and am really curious how it all works.
Getting to 12 is easy, there are lots of 7-11 out there.
However at gencon there was a table of 15s running the special.
I assume that was due to modules?
Can someone please break down exactly how 12+ play works?
For clarity, can you give examples from a 11 character through say 15?
Also is there enough out there to do this with more then one character due to the replay rules (assuming I don't GM it)
Or should I make damn sure what character I want to hit mid to high teens before I start on that road?
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I was at the 15+ table at GenCon.
At the end of Eyes of the Ten (the retirement arc you play when you hit 12), you are level 13 with 1XP away from 14. Then play Academy of Secrets module to bring you 1XP from 15. Play Tomb of the Iron Medusa module to bring you 1XP away from 16. This is exactly where my group was at heading into the Special.
Each part of the Special gave us 1XP, so we are 16th level. We will, at some point in the future, play The Moonscar to get us to 17, and The Witchwar Legacy to get us to 18.
You have to use modules to get to those higher levels. And no replay for credit is still in effect, so make sure you know what character you want to play with.
So if I recal correctly there are enough scenerios out there to get 4 level 12s? (without GMing)
but you can only take 1 of those past 12?
That seems a bit off.
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So if I recal correctly there are enough scenerios out there to get 4 level 12s? (without GMing)
but you can only take 1 of those past 12?
That seems a bit off.
Talking 12+ play, you can technically take two characaters:
You could (1) take one to level 13.2 with eyes of the ten; (2) take one to level 14 with only modules (ruby phoenix at 12, academy of secrets at 13, skipping EOTT alltogether)
If you are talking about even further play (15+) then you can currently take two characters that high.
1. Path presented by Joe Caubo above.
2. GM path presented by Joe Caubo above.
This is of course until more retirement scenarios (eyes of the ten) are released in the future. Which will happen when the campaign leadership determines there are currently enough characters who have gone through Eyes of the Ten.
So my suggestion to anyone who wants to see more retirement arcs, is to make sure you complete and report Eyes of the ten so that Mark and Mike can see there is enough demand for it.
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This thread lists how to get to the highest level possible. With the modules you could get player credit on one character and GM credit on a second.
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This seems like a good topic to bring this up in:
Is it allowed to be at 12.1 XP before starting Eyes of the Ten by playing a special? The Guide refers to what happens if you play sanctioned modules (lose xp/prestige/gold), but I was wondering if specials (which are the only things that give out 1 xp anymore after 12) worked differently.
You wouldn't hit 14 during Eyes of the Ten, you'd hit it after finishing.
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If you start EotT with 12.1 xp, you "roll back" xp, prestige and gold regardless.
You should wait to get that xp from the special until afterwards, or wait for next year's special (hoping its also 12+).
I stand corrected, and upon reading the guide again:
Once a character reaches 12th level, she may no longer play in tiered scenarios of levels 1–11, but can play special Tier 12 scenarios and events. If a character reaches 12th level by playing a sanctioned module, any XP beyond 33 points are lost prior to starting the Tier 12 scenarios/events. For each XP reduced, reduce the character’s total Fame and Prestige Points by 1, and the character’s total gp by 7,858.
So you should be good.
Venture-Captain, Texas—Waco
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If you start EotT with 12.1 xp, you "roll back" xp, prestige and gold regardless.
You should wait to get that xp from the special until afterwards, or wait for next year's special (hoping its also 12+).
This is NOT true. You can advance as far as 12.1 only before beginning Eyes of the Ten by playing at a 12+ table during a special event that offers this rare sub-tier. You will gain 5 xp during the EoT arc, thus advancing to 14th level upon completion.
However, should you gain 2 xp from various special events (say, the Grand Convocation and Race for the Runecarved Key), you will not be able to complete EoT because you would advance to 14th level after Part III and be ineligible to play in Part IV. You can only play EoT at levels 12 or 13. Also, once you start EoT your character is locked in and cannot do anything else until completing Part IV! In other words, you can't complete Parts I and II, then play at 13th level in a 12+ table at Race for the Runecarved Key, then return to finish off EoT.
The "rollback" rule that CRobledo is referring to only applies if you make it to 12th level by playing a module while you are level 11.1 or 11.2. For example, if you are 11.1 and play through The Ruby Phoenix Tournament, you would only keep 2 of the 3 xp you earned because your level 12.1 is reduced to 12. You do, however, get full gold and prestige - it is not reduced if you hit 12th due to a module, even if you played it at 11.2.
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As someone new to pathfinder society, I'm going to repeat my earlier question. Are the post level 11 modules, like EoT, something that can only run at conventions, or can they be played at local or home events?
John
John,
Eyes of the Ten and any Pathfinder modules can be done in home play. It is only the Pathfinder Society Specials, like Race for the Rune-Carved Key, that requires a more public venue, since they require multiple simultaneous tables be run at once.
Year of the Shadow Lodge: 3 tables
Blood Under Absolom: 5 tables
I anm not sure how many tables are needed for the Key, as it wasn't up on the web site last time I checked.
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I anm not sure how many tables are needed for the Key, as it wasn't up on the web site last time I checked.
That is because it's not yet purchaseable by the public. I believe I asked and it was 3 tables for race?
Edit: The only "con only" event so far has been the Grand Convocation at Paizocon. All the other Gencon specials are released afterwards. They are USUALLY run at cons because they require multiple tables, but its not a requirement to be at a con. We ran Year of the Shadow Lodge recently at a local venue as an "end of summer" special.
(PS - I guess Race for the Runecarved Key part 2 is Gencon only, but it was a one-time event never to be repeated again)
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Joe, I can't wait to murder Nikolai for good in The Witchwar Legacy..
Get in line! I thought we had a deal where we take turns GMing Nikolai's death.
Tomb of the Iron Medusa: John
Race for the Runecarved Key: Kyle
Moonscar: John?
Witchwar Legacy: Kyle?
And that's before we count "killing" Joe as a GM. Hey Joe, how are those crimson-masked assassins doing?
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If you start EotT with 12.1 xp, you "roll back" xp, prestige and gold regardless.
You should wait to get that xp from the special until afterwards, or wait for next year's special (hoping its also 12+).
This is NOT true. You can advance as far as 12.1 only before beginning Eyes of the Ten by playing at a 12+ table during a special event that offers this rare sub-tier. You will gain 5 xp during the EoT arc, thus advancing to 14th level upon completion.
However, should you gain 2 xp from various special events (say, the Grand Convocation and Race for the Runecarved Key), you will not be able to complete EoT because you would advance to 14th level after Part III and be ineligible to play in Part IV. You can only play EoT at levels 12 or 13.
This.
Also, once you start EoT your character is locked in and cannot do anything else until completing Part IV! In other words, you can't complete Parts I and II, then play at 13th level in a 12+ table at Race for the Runecarved Key, then return to finish off EoT.
I was pretty sure Mike had you could, but I dont recall where I saw it. :/
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For example, if you are 11.1 and play through The Ruby Phoenix Tournament, you would only keep 2 of the 3 xp you earned because your level 12.1 is reduced to 12. You do, however, get full gold and prestige - it is not reduced if you hit 12th due to a module, even if you played it at 11.2.
Is that true? I was under the assumption that one would also lose both gold and prestige. I have a character at 11.1 that will be playing "Curse of the Riven Sky" next week. I know I'll lose one of the three XP earned from the module, ending the day at 12.0, but are you saying I won't lose any of the available prestige or gold?
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For example, if you are 11.1 and play through The Ruby Phoenix Tournament, you would only keep 2 of the 3 xp you earned because your level 12.1 is reduced to 12. You do, however, get full gold and prestige - it is not reduced if you hit 12th due to a module, even if you played it at 11.2.Is that true? I was under the assumption that one would also lose both gold and prestige. I have a character at 11.1 that will be playing "Curse of the Riven Sky" next week. I know I'll lose one of the three XP earned from the module, ending the day at 12.0, but are you saying I won't lose any of the available prestige or gold?
Here's the exact rule, which says that you will lose PP/Fame and gold:
If a character reaches 12th level by playing a sanctioned module, any XP beyond 33 points are lost prior to starting the Tier 12 scenarios/events. For each XP reduced, reduce the character’s total Fame and prestige Points by 1, and the character’s total gp by 7,858.
Just as an unofficial addenda:
An impression received from other posts by Mike implied you could actually start the retirement arc, Eyes of the Ten, at 12.1, as you would not level out of range until the end of Part 4, when you would make 14th level.|
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We are going to stick with what is in the Guide currently. If we make exceptions, then it gets too confusing. If you are not going to play in EoT, then play one additional 7-11 scenario to make it to 12th to then play a module.
No, a character who is 12.0 can not play in a Special and start EoT at 12.1. Luckily, anything in the Special category is tiered for every level so you would be able to play a different character if you choose to.
If a character reaches 12th level by playing a sanctioned module, any XP beyond 33 points are lost prior to starting the Tier 12 scenarios/events. For each XP reduced, reduce the character’s total Fame and prestige Points by 1, and the character’s total gp by 7,858.
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No, a character who is 12.0 can not play in a Special and start EoT at 12.1. Luckily, anything in the Special category is tiered for every level so you would be able to play a different character if you choose to.
Doh... we've already had a group play the Runecarved Key at 12 in September, and they've also played the first part of Eyes of the Ten at 12.1. I was going on the (mis)understanding that they could start Eyes at any point before 13th level.
I understand the reductions, although for the 5 players this affects in my region, it will be a bitter pill - they all had to pay for raises and huge numbers of expendables after the Special, and so although their fame/pp/xp went up I'm not sure they actually made any money. I'm sure they would have chosen to *not* play at level 12 if they knew that to be the case. Any suggestions for how to break the news, anyone?
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No, a character who is 12.0 can not play in a Special and start EoT at 12.1. Luckily, anything in the Special category is tiered for every level so you would be able to play a different character if you choose to.
This is different that what has been stated before.
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No, a character who is 12.0 can not play in a Special and start EoT at 12.1. Luckily, anything in the Special category is tiered for every level so you would be able to play a different character if you choose to.This is different that what has been stated before.
Yep, that was back in March. We decided there was too much variation and too much confusion across the globe in different groups, and 5 months later after that post you linked, we clarified it in the Guide 4.2 to what I stated in your quote.
If a character reaches 12th level by playing a sanctioned module, any XP beyond 33 points are lost prior to starting the Tier 12 scenarios/events. For each XP reduced, reduce the character’s total Fame and prestige Points by 1, and the character’s total gp by 7,858.
Also highlighted the change in the Changelog HERE.
As PFS continually evolves, I may revisit a clarification I've made or it may be pointed out I made an error, and I reserve the right to change or reverse that decision for the better of the campaign.
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No, a character who is 12.0 can not play in a Special and start EoT at 12.1. Luckily, anything in the Special category is tiered for every level so you would be able to play a different character if you choose to.Doh... we've already had a group play the Runecarved Key at 12 in September, and they've also played the first part of Eyes of the Ten at 12.1. I was going on the (mis)understanding that they could start Eyes at any point before 13th level.
I understand the reductions, although for the 5 players this affects in my region, it will be a bitter pill - they all had to pay for raises and huge numbers of expendables after the Special, and so although their fame/pp/xp went up I'm not sure they actually made any money. I'm sure they would have chosen to *not* play at level 12 if they knew that to be the case. Any suggestions for how to break the news, anyone?
So did I, no worries you could lose the 1xp/1pp and the 7000+ gp and still keep the chronicle.
explain it to them that at least no one would lose the rewards on the sheet(other than gold xp and such)
Its not optimal but at least its not a total wash.
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No, a character who is 12.0 can not play in a Special and start EoT at 12.1. Luckily, anything in the Special category is tiered for every level so you would be able to play a different character if you choose to.This is different that what has been stated before.Yep, that was back in March. We decided there was too much variation and too much confusion across the globe in different groups, and 5 months later after that post you linked, we clarified it in the Guide 4.2 to what I stated in your quote.
If a character reaches 12th level by playing a sanctioned module, any XP beyond 33 points are lost prior to starting the Tier 12 scenarios/events. For each XP reduced, reduce the character’s total Fame and prestige Points by 1, and the character’s total gp by 7,858.Also highlighted the change in the Changelog HERE.
As PFS continually evolves, I may revisit a clarification I've made or it may be pointed out I made an error, and I reserve the right to change or reverse that decision for the better of the campaign.
Just so I'm clear: the guide currently says you lose extra xp/gold/fame/pp if playing a Module that brings you to above 12.
Your new change is that Eyes of the Ten may only be started at 12.0?
So people who played Race for the Runecarved Key at 12, expecting to be able to start Eyes of the Ten at 12.1 are now just out of luck?
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No, a character who is 12.0 can not play in a Special and start EoT at 12.1. Luckily, anything in the Special category is tiered for every level so you would be able to play a different character if you choose to.This is different that what has been stated before.Yep, that was back in March. We decided there was too much variation and too much confusion across the globe in different groups, and 5 months later after that post you linked, we clarified it in the Guide 4.2 to what I stated in your quote.
If a character reaches 12th level by playing a sanctioned module, any XP beyond 33 points are lost prior to starting the Tier 12 scenarios/events. For each XP reduced, reduce the character’s total Fame and prestige Points by 1, and the character’s total gp by 7,858.Also highlighted the change in the Changelog HERE.
As PFS continually evolves, I may revisit a clarification I've made or it may be pointed out I made an error, and I reserve the right to change or reverse that decision for the better of the campaign.
Just so I'm clear: the guide currently says you lose extra xp/gold/fame/pp if playing a Module that brings you to above 12.
Your new change is that Eyes of the Ten may only be started at 12.0?
So people who played Race for the Runecarved Key at 12, expecting to be able to start Eyes of the Ten at 12.1 are now just out of luck?
Even though the Changelog was put out 5 days before Race for the Runecarved Key and the Guide was released 2 days before the Race for the Runecarved Key, I will make an exception for Race for the Runecarved key this one time only.
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Even though the Changelog was put out 5 days before Race for the Runecarved Key and the Guide was released 2 days before the Race for the Runecarved Key, I will make an exception for Race for the Runecarved key this one time only.No, a character who is 12.0 can not play in a Special and start EoT at 12.1. Luckily, anything in the Special category is tiered for every level so you would be able to play a different character if you choose to.This is different that what has been stated before.Yep, that was back in March. We decided there was too much variation and too much confusion across the globe in different groups, and 5 months later after that post you linked, we clarified it in the Guide 4.2 to what I stated in your quote.
If a character reaches 12th level by playing a sanctioned module, any XP beyond 33 points are lost prior to starting the Tier 12 scenarios/events. For each XP reduced, reduce the character’s total Fame and prestige Points by 1, and the character’s total gp by 7,858.Also highlighted the change in the Changelog HERE.
As PFS continually evolves, I may revisit a clarification I've made or it may be pointed out I made an error, and I reserve the right to change or reverse that decision for the better of the campaign.
Just so I'm clear: the guide currently says you lose extra xp/gold/fame/pp if playing a Module that brings you to above 12.
Your new change is that Eyes of the Ten may only be started at 12.0?
So people who played Race for the Runecarved Key at 12, expecting to be able to start Eyes of the Ten at 12.1 are now just out of luck?
Thank you for taking the time to answer the questions I feel like we're talking past each other though.
Let me see if I can clarify what I think is going on:
The guide and your earlier post and the change-log all talk about what happens if a module brings you to above 12.0.
Race for the Rune Carved Key is not a module, so has nothing to do with the above rules.
The prior notes for Eyes of the Ten say you may not be 14 at any time during it, (meaning some weird things like playing Ruby Pheonix and Eyes of the ten at 12 on slow progression).
Now you're saying that to eliminate confusion EotT may only be started at 12.0 (or 12.1 if you played Rune Carved Key, but not if you played the PaizoCon special at 12?)
What really confuses me is you seem to be saying this new ruling is the same thing you said when you updated the guide. It seems to be quite different to me.
I understand that rulings can change, especially with something complicated and changing as this.
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Summary: There were some rules changes and the current rule is you must be 12.0 to play EoTT (or 12.1 with Race for the Runecarved Key)
Is this right?
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That is correct. If you start Eyes of Ten at 12.1, that means you are now entering part 2 at level 13. I'm making an exception for people who have played Race for the Runecarved Key.
As I've said before, we will clear it all up in the next iteration of the Guide, or just retire Eyes of Ten so we don't have to deal with all of this confusion for this one series.
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That is correct. If you start Eyes of Ten at 12.1, that means you are now entering part 2 at level 13. I'm making an exception for people who have played Race for the Runecarved Key.
As I've said before, we will clear it all up in the next iteration of the Guide, or just retire Eyes of Ten so we don't have to deal with all of this confusion for this one series.
Am I correct in assuming this clarification is only for those who have already done so, not someone wishing to do so in the future?
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Am I correct in assuming this clarification is only for those who have already done so, not someone wishing to do so in the future?That is correct. If you start Eyes of Ten at 12.1, that means you are now entering part 2 at level 13. I'm making an exception for people who have played Race for the Runecarved Key.
As I've said before, we will clear it all up in the next iteration of the Guide, or just retire Eyes of Ten so we don't have to deal with all of this confusion for this one series.
Tha is correct.
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Tha is correct.Am I correct in assuming this clarification is only for those who have already done so, not someone wishing to do so in the future?That is correct. If you start Eyes of Ten at 12.1, that means you are now entering part 2 at level 13. I'm making an exception for people who have played Race for the Runecarved Key.
As I've said before, we will clear it all up in the next iteration of the Guide, or just retire Eyes of Ten so we don't have to deal with all of this confusion for this one series.
OK, new twist on the question :p I played Race for the Runecarved Key with my level 12.0 at Gen Con, then made it to the second round. So I have two chronicles for Race for the Runecarved key each giving me 1 XP and am sitting at 12.2. I assumed this was going to mean I would have to play Eyes of the Ten with another character when I saw this thread. Is that the case or can I take the reduction in XP and gold down to either 12.1 or 12.0 and still play with this one?
I am fine either way, I have another character that's going to retire next week and I can continue to play the first one at PaizoCon and Gen Con. I just figured I would ask since the first character was the group's only cleric....
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Chernobyl, how did you get to 16? As I understand it, the options available really dry up at level 15. Really curious as I'm keen to take a PFS characters as high as they can get.
Kestler, take a look at this excellent thread by Kyle on your options.