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Bladed Dash versus Force Hook Charge


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion


Am I missing something, or is Bladed Dash just much better than Force Hook Charge?

The only benefit to FHC seems to be that it can double as a grappling hook....


Longer range. That's about it. And a less obscure source.


Bladed Dash allows 1 attack only (For a Bard), But a Magus could Spell Combat with it to cast (including getting the free attack), then take his regular full attack.
The spell only allows the movement listed and your move is along the ground.

Force Hook Charge work to pull you across gaps as well.


STR Ranger, I assume the OP is talking about for a Magus, where either is effectively pounce. Except Bladed Dash can also be a full attack...plus one attack...and then an AoO-free 30 ft withdraw.

Isn't force hook charge for anyone not a Magus just a weak damage spell + move adjacent?


Edited.


That is true. Bladed Dash is normal movement. If you can fly, this is less of an issue.

Of course, I've seen some claim bladed dash is not normal movement. I think they're wrong, but it is a common view, sadly.


STR Ranger wrote:

Bladed Dash allows 1 attack only

Force Hook Charge= Pounce.

Actually as far as I can tell both are pounce.

Both are a standard action I can combine with Spell Combat.

In the case of Bladed Dash I can move up to 30 feet provoking no attacks of opportunity, smack someone once at any point in that movement, and finish off my attacks at the end of the movement, presuming I chose to end my movement next to someone. Or reverse it, spend all my attacks on someone I've started my round next to, then Bladed Dash--hit them one final time if they're alive, someone I pass by if they're not--and end up somewhere else. Either way, Spell Combat means I get all of my full attack in the round, combined with Bladed Dash. Oh, and as added icing on the cake, the one extra attack bladed dash gives me is at +int to hit.

Force Hook Charge is the same, except with a longer range (only slightly at first, ramping up in the higher teens), and no AoO protection. Also usable on objects, meaning it can function as a grappling hook out of combat for those magi who are too weak to carry grappling hooks I guess.

I suppose Force Hook Charge could have some interesting applications if you used it for positioning in-combat by targetting objects to get around. But is that worth a third level spell slot?


Force Hook Charge is a Magus only spell as well I believe.

It can pull you over a chasm or to a different elevation. I don't think Bladed Dash can do that.


Grimmy wrote:

Force Hook Charge is a Magus only spell as well I believe.

It can pull you over a chasm or to a different elevation. I don't think Bladed Dash can do that.

This is true. But it feels like in a situation where you'd want to get over a chasm or to a different elevation, you're better of casting the also-third-level Fly.


D'oh. For some reason several responses did not load when I made my responses, so I repeated some stuff others had already addressed. My apologies.

And yes, I was coming from the pov of a magus. I only recently noticed that Bladed Dash is also a bard spell.


If you cast Fly you will still need to use a move action to close the distance. So no Full Attack when you get there.


For the specific, narrow situation of a chasm you want to one-time cross.

If it's a flying foe, or a small pillar in the middle of a huge canyon (to "elaborate" the corss a gap situation more, in one of many possible ways) such that you'd have to make a return trip anyway, you're better off just casting fly.


Grimmy wrote:
If you cast Fly you will still need to use a move action to close the distance. So no Full Attack when you get there.

This is true, but Fly has the added benefit of remaining active for the rest of the combat.

In fact, by prepping Fly instead of Force Hook Charge I could have cast it at the beginning of combat and have it for the entire length of the encounter.

Or at higher levels I would have Overland Flight active and use the slot to Haste the entire party...


Yeah, Fly is just a different spell. Force Hook Charge isn't about travel it's about getting to an opponent that thought they were inaccessible and unloading all your iterative attacks, all as part of a spell combat routine.

At least that's how it reads to me.

If you want to Fly, then yeah, prep Fly instead.


Grimmy wrote:

Yeah, Fly is just a different spell. Force Hook Charge isn't about travel it's about getting to an opponent that thought they were inaccessible and unloading all your iterative attacks, all as part of a spell combat routine.

At least that's how it reads to me.

Oh, I agree. But my point is that the only time this spell is better than Bladed Dash is if you need to fly or climb to get to your target, and even then it seems more valuable--assuming you can't already fly--to forgo one full attack to cast Fly and have it available the rest of the combat.


Bladed Dash is in any direction. If you can handle the fall, you can dash straight up and smack a flying creature. If you have access to feather fall, you can get your other attacks in against the flying creature before floating back down. This is according to my DM, who is one of the authors of the spell.

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