Helping an ally to their feet


Rules Questions

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Scarab Sages

Humphrey Boggard wrote:
@OP - There's a cleric spell (Blessing of Fervor) that grants each recipient a boon of their choice each round, one of which is standing as a swift action. Aside from that I don't think that there is any way to mitigate the action loss although you can take the sting out of the AoO you provoke say by using total defense to stand.

Total Defense does not provide immunity to AoO's. Though it does grant some AC bonus.

"Total Defense

You can defend yourself as a standard action. You get a +4 dodge bonus to your AC for 1 round. Your AC improves at the start of this action. You can't combine total defense with fighting defensively or with the benefit of the Combat Expertise feat. You can't make attacks of opportunity while using total defense."


Emile La Fuente wrote:
Humphrey Boggard wrote:
-although you can take the sting out of the AoO you provoke say by using total defense to stand.
You can do that?

Yeah, total defense is a standard action and standing is a move action that provokes. If you take three ranks of acrobatics you get a +6 to your AC from total defense instead of the usual +4 (also you get an additional +1 to AC for fighting defensively).

Emile La Fuente wrote:
Also, your username is awesome.

Thanks!


mdt wrote:
Except that they can be sundered.

Can animated objects be sundered, or no?

Sunder isn't really something special... you do an attack (combat maneuver roll), roll damage, have some taken off by hardness, and reduce hp. And keep beating on it till it's destroyed.


Crimsen wrote:
Humphrey Boggard wrote:
@OP - There's a cleric spell (Blessing of Fervor) that grants each recipient a boon of their choice each round, one of which is standing as a swift action. Aside from that I don't think that there is any way to mitigate the action loss although you can take the sting out of the AoO you provoke say by using total defense to stand.

Total Defense does not provide immunity to AoO's. Though it does grant some AC bonus.

"Total Defense

You can defend yourself as a standard action. You get a +4 dodge bonus to your AC for 1 round. Your AC improves at the start of this action. You can't combine total defense with fighting defensively or with the benefit of the Combat Expertise feat. You can't make attacks of opportunity while using total defense."

Sorry about that - should have been more specific, you still provoke but with the +4 or +6 to AC (if you took 3 ranks of acrobatics) then provoking is a lot less scary.


StreamOfTheSky wrote:
mdt wrote:
Except that they can be sundered.

Can animated objects be sundered, or no?

Sunder isn't really something special... you do an attack (combat maneuver roll), roll damage, have some taken off by hardness, and reduce hp. And keep beating on it till it's destroyed.

We're back to fuzzy logic again. :)

There are some animated objects that can be worn (that animated armor comes to mind), and worn objects can be sundered. Also, some animated objects can be picked up and used as weapons. Even beyond that, a small animated object (like an iron cobra) can be picked up, and anything that is in your hands can be sundered, so yeah, there are situations where you can sunder animated objects.

Alternately, if it's unattended, you can just attack it.


I thought total defense was a full round action. Ha! Who knew?

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I removed a post and a reply. Don't be a jerk.


Rules for Smashing an Object. Creatures are not objects. If they were, every creature would be immune to nonlethal damage, and a treant would deal double damage to everything it encountered. That said, there are situations in which I might use object rules for creatures, such as treating them as falling objects for the purpose of dealing damage.

As far as helping someone to their feet goes, not sure I'd offer any mechanical benefit to that under most circumstances. If they required an acrobatics check to get on their feet, such as needing to balance on slippery ice, then an aid another action would be appropriate. But I don't think giving someone a hand would be enough to save them a move action.

Now, as far as lifting someone off the ground and setting them down on their feet goes, I wouldn't allow that to save them movement either. Otherwise you might be looking at CharA carrying CharB into battle, just to make sure CharB gets that full attack the first round.


Rhatahema wrote:


Now, as far as lifting someone off the ground and setting them down on their feet goes, I wouldn't allow that to save them movement either. Otherwise you might be looking at CharA carrying CharB into battle, just to make sure CharB gets that full attack the first round.

Sort of like a mount does you mean? So... you are advocating that mounts should be removed from the game, because they might let the person they are carrying into combat get a full round attack? Sorry, that argument doesn't carry weight. :)


The course of debate in this thread seems to have wandered fairly far from the initial topic.

Which is a shame as there is a simple answer to the OP's question:

Aid Another (combat) rules wrote:

You can also use this standard action to help a friend in other ways.


In response to the body bludgeon comment:
a barb10/magus5 CAN make a "flaming Steve", as they have the ability to imbue their weapons with special qualities, as long as they first give at least a +1 enhancement, through use of their arcane pool.

Of course, if the barbarian in question is a drunken brute archetype, they'd probably have better uses for a "Flaming Moe" instead ;P


Guys... Drop it.

Objects and creatures are (with the exception of animated/intelligent objects, which are sort of the grey area), as they are handled by the rules, totally disjunct categories. Neither is a subset of the other.

Proof: Spell descriptions and target entries list, in numerous cases, terms like "object or creature". If one were a subset of the other, that distinction would not be necessary. Examples: Feather Fall, Dispel Magic etc pp.

Additionally, there are some spells that only work on creatures (or only on objects, respectively), and allowing those to work on both categories would open one hell of a can of worms.

Regarding the OP: what Coriat said.

And even if "lifting an ally to his feet" is not specifically spelled out by RAW, would you guys really argue that PCs are somehow unable to lift/drag/carry other PCs around?

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