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# No two of which

### Rules Questions

When a spell says "No two of which can be more than 30 feet apart." does that mean all have to be within a 30 foot area and if so why use this confusing wording... or does it mean any person involved in the spell must be within 30' of another person involved in a spell making something like a chain?

I've always thought it was the latter but I'm being told I'm wrong and its the first definition... Darn me and my weird way of thinking....

Thanks

It means that two of the creatures you intend to affect with the spell can be 30 feet apart at the most.

It is basically the first one.

 Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

None of the above?

Measure the distance between the figures and so long as there are no two more than 30 feet apart you are good. I'm not sure what a 30 foot area might be, a cube 30 feet to a side?

My first sentence is accurate, and the best way to do it.

My second sentence was trying to make it easy to understand, but I can see that it might be misleading.

Suppose you try to make a chain. A is 30 feet from B; B is 30 feet from C; and A is 60 feet from C. Now A and C are more than 30 feet apart. This violates the rule against any two being more than 30 feet apart.

It effectively caps the spell's "diameter" at 30 feet.

Of course, some area of effect limitations are written quite badly. For example, by RAW, an Oracle of Waves's Blizzard Revelation allows an Oracle to place two cubes next to herself and the other cubes anywhere she wants with no range limit provided they are placed in groups of two or more. Presumably, the intent was that there needs to be an unbroken path of storm cubes back to the Oracle from any given storm cube, but that's not what was actually written.

 Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

concerro wrote:

My first sentence is accurate, and the best way to do it.

My second sentence was trying to make it easy to understand, but I can see that it might be misleading.

Your post crossed with mine, I was replying to the OP only.

Can we double the distance by using a metamagic feat ???

or any other way ?

No way to double it. You can only double the range of the spell, and that 30(just an example) foot distance is not the range of the spell.

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I fail to see how this is confusing, but since you asked:

No two i.e. any two you want to affect, so if you had 4 people you wanted to affect

1&2 Cannot be more than 30 feet apart
1&3 Cannot be more than 30 feet apart
1&4 Cannot be more than 30 feet apart
2&3 Cannot be more than 30 feet apart
2&4 Cannot be more than 30 feet apart
3&4 Cannot be more than 30 feet apart

I can't make it any clearer.

I think the reason this is confusing is, in part, that some of them were written, in previous editions, so that everything had to be within 30' of at least one other creature.

The reason for this wording is in part that if it were an "area", then it would affect everything in the area including allies.

 Owner - D20 Hobbies

seebs wrote:
previous editions, so that everything had to be within 30' of at least one other creature.

Which version?

seebs wrote:

I think the reason this is confusing is, in part, that some of them were written, in previous editions, so that everything had to be within 30' of at least one other creature.

The reason for this wording is in part that if it were an "area", then it would affect everything in the area including allies.

Not really ... it would be easy to say 'affects up to X targets of your choice in a 30' area' (diameter?).

Zhayne wrote:
seebs wrote:

I think the reason this is confusing is, in part, that some of them were written, in previous editions, so that everything had to be within 30' of at least one other creature.

The reason for this wording is in part that if it were an "area", then it would affect everything in the area including allies.

Not really ... it would be easy to say 'affects up to X targets of your choice in a 30' area' (diameter?).

Except that "area" is a Magic Keyword which means "an area of effect, everything in the area is affected".

James Risner wrote:
Which version?

I'm not totally sure. I think someone once told me that some early (like, 2E or so?) version of Horrid Wilting had that problem, but going and checking, I just see a 30' cube. So I am not sure what they were talking about. Could be one of those "1e splatbook" things that got mutated over time.

A friend of mine just pointed out:

This is not the same as a 30' diameter sphere or circle.

Draw an equilateral triangle 30' on a side. Put people on the points. They are clearly valid targets for such a spell, but there is no 30' diameter circle that contains all three.

Now do a regular tetrahedron with 30' sides. Put people at each of the four vertexes. Draw 30' radius spheres around all four people. The intersection of these spheres is a fairly complex area, with the interesting trait that every part of it is clearly within 30' of all four of those people, but nothing outside of it is not within 30' of those four people.

You might be able to construct a different set of people who have a similar bounding-area which can't fit entirely within that one, too.