Concept idea for PFO items your opinion please


Pathfinder Online


So here something i though of in terms of how to handle items in PFO and avoiding most things i hated in other Games

well sorry for the format i wrote the orginal in the editor and copied it

Gear

Longsword 5-10 dmg speed 2.0

Durability : 100/100
Core : 3/3

so my concept of how to handle Equipment

First Durability would decline by use hitting or getting hit Durability can be restored with simple Repair kits in field but this would damage the Core of the item the Durability indicates how long the item will be useable once it hits 0 it will stop working but wont be destroyed once the core hits 0 the item will be destroyed so as stated earlier Durability can be restored in field with easy and cheap repair kits but the core is different the core can only restored with a portion of the the orginal materials used to built it and needs a competend smith to do so in a suitable Forge
so the core takes damage everytime a repair kit is used on the item aswell as when the item hits 20 or 10 % of its max durability
The Thoughts behind these Stats for items are simple i personly would like to see attacks for meele classes that are able to damage an opponets weapon (durability) ( high end skill )aswell as the ability to fix your gear in a big complex dungeon or on long trips into the fields but this would also help the economy as it will let crafters stay in buisness even if people obtain "end game" gear this gear will be in need to be maintained and this will also require a suitable amount of resources i think a item thats just before its breaking point would need like 50-70% of its orginal material costs to be fully restored i would also let the Core "points" grow from 3 of basic/fragile gear
to 10 for the most durable gear

oh if you dont like the naming of these stats feel free to offer a better alternativ ;)

Item design

Weapons

base dmg base speed

+ extra dmg
elementel/magical dmg bonus
Crit / hit / accuracy bonus ( accuracy would be mainly a rangedbonus which affects hit and crit chance aswell as extends the range to where you can hit with ranged weapons )
Armor pen ( mostly on Blunt weapons )
Magic dmg/heal amplifier for caster weapons
Mana reg bonus
Special abilitys or spells if Character has the needed pre skills for it
Parry ( meele weapon only )

Range weapons

Different typs of Projectiles to choose from from cheap ones without special trait to expensive with special traits as
armor pen / longer range / higher accuracy / extra crit dmg and so on

Throwing weapons

should be consumables which should basicly purely be available from Player Crafters so that you dont have to worry like in
early WoW that onces you used up those rare ones from a Boss mop you wont be able to get another stack of those

i would also love to see a primary and secundary weapon slot like diablo 2 had so that you can have lets say your
1hand shield as primary and your bow or throwing weapon on secundar slot this would also imply that you cant just
equip a new weapon in the middle of a fight without time loose

Armor

Head slot

Armor
Health
(magical resistance)

+ visual boni like enhanced tracking / stealth detection
Hit and Accuracy boni

Shoulder

Armor
Health
(magical resistance)

+ extra armor/health/magical resistance

Breast / Torso

Armor
Health
(magical resistance)

+ extra armor/health/magical resistance

Legs

Armor
Health
(magical resistance)

+ extra armor/health/magical resistance

Feet

Armor
Health
(magical resistance)

+ Runspeed
Waterwalk and other terrain walk extras
Silent ( stealth buff )
Knockback resistence

Hands

Armor
Health
(magical resistance)

+ extra Dmg for your weapon ( dps not flat dmg increse )
Parry/hit/accuracy/crit bonus
Caster
cast speed / magical dmg /healing / mana reg bonus

Wrist

Armor
Health
(magical resistance)

+ extra Dmg for your weapon ( dps not flat dmg increse )
Parry/hit/accuracy/crit bonus
Caster
cast speed / magical dmg /healing / mana reg bonus

Cloak

Armor
Health
(magical resistance)

+ extra armor/health/magical resistance
stealth boni

Waist

Armor
Health
(magical resistance)

+ Quick slots ( Quick slots are slots in which you can store Potions and other small useable items in Quickslots which
wont trigger a Cooldown like when you would use them out of your inventory also i belive potions shoudnt
be instant effects but effects that work over time like 3 sec for a healing potion when you use one
the total healing amount will be spread over 3 sec ( hot ) and if you take 2 it takes 6 sec andso on ) i will leave the amount of quickslots open but i would say from 0 on a "noob" item to like 5-6 on a "high end" item

Special slot

equipable

Quiver for Arrows / Bolts
Holder for Throwing weapons

Provide a Space for Projectiles which wont drop on death unlike items stored in your inventory same for the items in your
quick slots

Shield

Depending on the shield Type the stats will warry in relation to its size ( a tower shield will have a high arrow
protection chance while a small buckler will only provide a small chance )

Armor
Health
(magical resistance)

+ Block amount
Block rate
Parry
Arrow ( Projectile ) Protection chance and amount ( same as block amount )
( Magic Protection chance and amount )

For assault Shields which have generally lower Defensive stats chance for damaging the enemies weapon when blocking
and dmg bonus for shield attacks

Neck (1 slot) Ring (2 slots) Trinket (1 slot)

can provide any Bonus

so this specific layout for slots has following in mind this way it should be easier to Balance characters
Offensive ability to its defence abilitys while not haveing a need to raise the stats numbers into the skys as WoW
needed to do with every new raid or expansion it also gives you the chance to customize your Character more
between Pure offensive allrounder and defensiv / support
Like in eve glass cannon balanced buffer or pure max buffer
so unlike in wow where your raid gear gives you the needed Health buffer to survive boss abilitys this isnt
garantied in PFO

also for those who wonder why wrist and handslots provide extra dmg for physical and casters its rather simple
having only a maximum of 5 slots for a char that forsakes all extra defence for pure power is a bit much as you
have far more items that provide defencive boni so as those 2 slots affect the handeling of the weapons i put it there
instead of spreading those stats over all item slots also for caster in almost all movies games and books its hinted/shown
that mages use their hands/staffs for channeling their magical power so better hand and wrist slots which help channeling
those would affect their magic in a possitiv way ;)

well im pretty sure i left some holes to fill or things i would make a natural consequence out of the things i proposed
so let the discusion begin and if you find grammar or spelling errors feel free to correct them

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

You've obviously put alot of work and thought it all of this. My personal preference is for low magic gear rather than the endless grinding for gear in some MMO's.


I hope there will be a lot of different ''stats'' available on items so everyone don't go around with the same gear. What gear you want depends on your build/role. I also hope that each gear piece should only have 1 or 2 different stats on them (except for armor/weapon damage) and that they are dependent on where that item is on the body (like your examples).

Boots could come with run speed bonus OR resistance vs CC OR run speed bonus only in woods OR Resistance vs traps OR sneak bonus etc.

I think there are a lot of different ways to make itemization much more interesting compared to other mmorpgs. Usually balance and the nature of themepark mmorpgs make itemization a dull experience. Everyone are competing against the same monsters and everyone should be able to do most things equally. Hopefully because of all the roles you can take in PfO itemization will support those roles.

Still hoping to see weapon range actually matter. A halberd should reach longer than a dagger. Few games add this, which i think is sad, because it can add depth to combat if executed properly.

Liberty's Edge Goblinworks Executive Founder

I would definitely like to see a way of customizing the look of your gear. If you find you like the LOOK of one set of gear, but want the stats of another there should be a way of combining them. WoW and Tera both have ways of doing this, not sure about other games.

Goblin Squad Member

Ravening wrote:
You've obviously put alot of work and thought it all of this. My personal preference is for low magic gear rather than the endless grinding for gear in some MMO's.

^--This

Goblin Squad Member

Blaeringr wrote:
Ravening wrote:
You've obviously put alot of work and thought it all of this. My personal preference is for low magic gear rather than the endless grinding for gear in some MMO's.
^--This

What does ^-- mean? I honestly don't know. Is it supposed to be a smiliey or a scowly in your case :-p

Goblin Squad Member

Quote:

So here something i though of in terms of how to handle items in PFO and avoiding most things i hated in other Games

well sorry for the format i wrote the orginal in the editor and copied it

I mostly agree with the ideas, particularly the idea of 2 seperate damages for equipment, your ideas of damage actually remind me quite a bit of my old idea. One thing I think I kind of disagree on yours, is the way core works. Namely in your situation, for the best durration of a weapon, one would be best to delay the field repairs until a weapon is at 11% to maximize the weapons life. Where in my view, the more often you maintain a weapon, the better. Least in my view repairing at 80% would probably be better for a weapon than at 10%.

That's why to me, having 2 numbers, a condition %age
and a condition HP of say 1000 or so
the lower the durability %age, the higher the chance of the weapon losing HP each swing.

Hycoo wrote:


Boots could come with run speed bonus OR resistance vs CC OR run speed bonus only in woods OR Resistance vs traps OR sneak bonus etc.

Pretty much in full agreement there. DDO was my favorate itemization in any game... so many varieties I would have like 15 different of each slot for different uses. Of course the flaws of it were, the fact that it allowed you to pretty much rapid switch armor mid combat asuming you were using cloth etc... Second flaw came later in the game, with the introduction of greensteel, dragonscale and alchemical armor, of which you then were looking at a list of bonuses on a single item, beign 2 pages long... Kind of negating the need for choices altogether.


well for the item "life" you could also see it that way a
100/100 durability
3/3 core
weapon has a max life value of 300 and also maintaining a weapon in field
will always somewhat damage the weapon as sharpening a weapon means grinding ecxess of the blade i also thought of the 20 or 10% breaking point more as a penalty for those who dont maintain their gear regullary also i may have forgotten the fact that the worse your item state is the more material you will need for the repair but on the otherhand if you repair your weapon early on you will need less material per durability/core point than it would cost for your weapon in bad condition so the fact that for repairing your weapon before the 20 or 10% point will be the most economicaly but beeing honest this wont be easy to manage as you will mostly notbeeing able to predict everything that happens around you like having your weapon at 30% and then getting attackt by bandits and even after surviving that encounter your weapon did dropp below 20% and lost a core point or just a big mob group or a player that is able to use a weapon breaking skill so it may be economical
to keep the weapon close to the breaking point in field but it has a few disatvantages keep yourself ready for combat or play cheap well thx for pointing out that hole

and for customizing gear to a ceartain point i agree but i would like to see that you can change the color of your gear and slightly modify the looks but nothing like wow where you can make out of a rapier a broadsword andso on the apperance of a player / player force should allow to narrow down a certain role or atleast the gear typ a player that has towershield transmogd to a small buckler that would make it alot harder on that badguys in terms of choosing targets and for scouts to determine the what your force will face

Goblin Squad Member

Ravening wrote:
Blaeringr wrote:
Ravening wrote:
You've obviously put alot of work and thought it all of this. My personal preference is for low magic gear rather than the endless grinding for gear in some MMO's.
^--This
What does ^-- mean? I honestly don't know. Is it supposed to be a smiliey or a scowly in your case :-p

The ^ is simply pointing to what he has quoted. Like when you point to something and say, "This".


Crafted gear should be somewhat customizable in color/shape, but loot found in dungeons should not imo. This would only give power to the crafters and make them more viable. Then again really rare artifacts could come in a color/shape that can't be crafted. If a player finds such a rare artifact he could get some crafted gear to match it visually. I agree with Frosthammer that there should be a limit to how your item can look (rapier not looking like a broadsword etc.), but armor should have a broad selection of colors/shapes.

Onishi wrote:
Of course the flaws of it were, the fact that it allowed you to pretty much rapid switch armor mid combat asuming you were using cloth etc

Corpse looting will probably stop people from carrying several sets of equipment.


On a second note, i would love to see a second gear tab for social clothing, and that those cloths don't drop on death. Of course they wouldn't give any bonuses.

Goblin Squad Member

Hycoo wrote:
... i would love to see a second gear tab for social clothing...

I'd like that too, but so far I get the impression this kind of rp-centric thing isn't really what Ryan is going for. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he jumped on to dispute that this is even rp-centric :)

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
I'd like that too, but so far I get the impression this kind of rp-centric thing isn't really what Ryan is going for. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he jumped on to dispute that this is even rp-centric :)

What are you talking about? WE are the content. You don't get much more rp centric than that. :-)

Goblin Squad Member

@Mogloth, I was referring to the kinds of systems that only the developers can provide, that many players associate with RP, such as Chat Bubbles and a rich set of Animated Emotes. Yes, WE are the content, but WE can't put those things in the game, any more than we can put a second gear tab in the game.

And I was making the point that Ryan has voiced the position that those things aren't really vital to RP, leaving some of us to wonder whether he has any desire whatsoever to include them in the game.

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:

@Mogloth, I was referring to the kinds of systems that only the developers can provide, that many players associate with RP, such as Chat Bubbles and a rich set of Animated Emotes. Yes, WE are the content, but WE can't put those things in the game, any more than we can put a second gear tab in the game.

And I was making the point that Ryan has voiced the position that those things aren't really vital to RP, leaving some of us to wonder whether he has any desire whatsoever to include them in the game.

OK. It was late and you only quoted the wardrobe thing. So, that's what my answer was based on.

Yeah, I LOVE the outfit system in LOTRO. I love looking for good armor pieces so I can wear them cosmetically.

I'll be OK if some sort of wardrobe system is not in the works for PFO from the get go. I say this, because I do not see us changing armor as often as we do in themepark MMOs. So, with less armor changes, the art team can go all out on the pieces that are in the game.

LOTRO's artists have been knocking it out of the park lately. Tons of good looks to choose from.

What I would be the most happy with here in PFO, is when these initial coding challenges are done, that they have left in a place stop to go back and add a wardrobe system sometime after launch.

Now, I'm not a programmer, so I have no idea if that is a feasible approach. If it is, then I say go for it. If not, then oh well.


Mogloth wrote:
I'll be OK if some sort of wardrobe system is not in the works for PFO from the get go

Yeah, especially since settlements and other natural social places won't be presented in 3D. When/if such 3D spaces are implemented it would be a nice addition tho.

Sovereign Court

Onishi wrote:
Quote:

So here something i though of in terms of how to handle items in PFO and avoiding most things i hated in other Games

well sorry for the format i wrote the orginal in the editor and copied it

I mostly agree with the ideas, particularly the idea of 2 seperate damages for equipment, your ideas of damage actually remind me quite a bit of my old idea. One thing I think I kind of disagree on yours, is the way core works. Namely in your situation, for the best durration of a weapon, one would be best to delay the field repairs until a weapon is at 11% to maximize the weapons life. Where in my view, the more often you maintain a weapon, the better. Least in my view repairing at 80% would probably be better for a weapon than at 10%.

That's why to me, having 2 numbers, a condition %age
and a condition HP of say 1000 or so
the lower the durability %age, the higher the chance of the weapon losing HP each swing.

I'm agreeing with Onishi, over all. In real life, people generally perform maintenance (repair) their tools as often as they can manage, and it is when one fails to maintain something for awhile that it starts taking permanent damage. Your system rewards waiting until an item nearly falls apart before fixing it when in real life if one did that, they would probably end up having to throw it away much sooner than someone who performs numerous small repairs over a period of time.

Three other thoughts I'd like to add: I really hate it when item durability is too frail. In Fallout 3 for instance, one practically needs to repair their weapon after every firefight. While this may a bit truer to life, it makes for a rather annoying game.

Secondly, an extension of the above, magic items and items made of special materials like mithril or adamantine should be significantly more durable than their mundane counterparts. Perhaps only losing durability (in the example of a weapon) when striking a foe with damage reduction or the like. Mundane use should have little to no effect on such items. For one thing, these items will represent a significantly greater investment on the part of the player than mundane ones (even the most minor of magical swords costs literally 200 times more than a regular one), and for another, superior materials and enchantments would almost by their definition make an item more resilient.

Thirdly, (and perhaps this is tangentially related, but) while playing Pirates of the Burning Sea (the only other game I've played with a virtual market) it occurred to me that one part of real world markets is not being replicated: quality. One of the big things that affects both price and what people buy is the quality of an item. In PotBS, buying a ship from one person is much like buying that ship from anyone else. This means that competitive pricing is reserved to pricing your Jamaica sloop at or slightly below what everyone else is pricing their Jamaica sloops at because one is just like another.
With the use of skills in PFO, perhaps we could replicate quality and give a reason to buy one craftsman's item over the same item made by another craftsman even if the former is more expensive. As a craftsman's skill goes up, the items they make have greater resilience and durability. A novice craftsman could make a steel longsword with 80 points of durability, while a more experienced one could make a statistically identical steel longsword with 200 points. This could also work in place of masterwork quality items by requiring a certain durability in order to enchant the item. Or perhaps, enchanting reduces the items maximum durability (offset by other bonuses and the aforementioned superior resilience of magical items) which would cause inferior quality items to break.


well the reason i picked out such low numbers for the core stat was simple that the higher the number goes and the more complex the system that you have to use to calculate the material cost of the repair the more people will hate it i know alot people from wow that for one wanted to raid content but never cared about reading boss guide item guides or even try to learn how to play their class even i dont think this type of people would want to deal with a complex system regarding their gear
haveing to watch for the durability not to drop below a certain point before you have to use the "annoying" repair kit and watching that the core stat wont drop to 0 would already be a challenge for that type but this type is also a potential paying customer for GW if you want to make the system more complex and make it easier for those who maintain their gear often lets just factor the core up by 10 and let the maintain cost of core point when useing a repair kit scale nonelinear so that the more often you use the less you have to worry about core damage i dont wanna throw "complex" math into a concept so i will leave it at that

for the part about crafting well i all in for quality difference by crafted items and if i remember correct crafting will have somekind of "minigame" in for it which will then hopefully determine if you get a failed product a basic one or a well made one

also a question for the ones that play the rpg can the armor be divided in 3 categories ( cloth / leather / metal ) or should it go like in wow ( cloth / leather / chain / plate ) for the first i have some ideas how to prevent a "mage" running around in full plate and shield while still dealing as much dmg as a "mage" in cloth armor

Shadow Lodge

Why shouldn't a mage in plate do as much damage as a mage in cloth -- so long as s/he put in the time and effort to train it up? If I put time into training magic, I don't want to be arbitrarily weakened just because of some preconceived notion. Let the time taken to train up armour be the cost of wearing armour.
Back on topic, I like the idea of repairable items with limited overall durability - but as others have said, magic items should be far sturdier - you're already risking their loss by just carrying them.

Sovereign Court

@Frosthammer: I think I may have gotten a bit lost on that first part, but... As for my experience on WoW, my guildmates and I usually try to repair our equipment fairly regularly - before and after a dungeon or raid, as soon as possible after dying, and basically any time we're at a shop. From what I understand of your system, we'd be punished for that kind of frequent upkeep.
Ideally, the system should be so that most standard items (basically, not those that would have the 'fragile' quality in PF) should have a high enough durability (that degrades at a slow enough rate) so people don't have to keep checking that often in fear of the item breaking. The system should reward people for regular upkeep, not require it. Or as your system seems to do, discourage it.
And a bit of clarification on my creation idea: I'd like to see it be fairly smooth in its quality increase and be more directly tied to the character's skill level. As your skill steadily goes up, the durability of the items you craft does as well (+10% at the first rank past the minimum to make the item, +20% at the second, and so on. Note that the numbers are just an example and wouldn't have to be exactly those in the finished game). The minigame idea reminds me of the crafting system in Allods, which is all right but not what I had in mind. I can't say whether or not I like it, but I think that if it is used then failure or... I suppose "critical success" should about equally uncommon and rely heavily on chance, while normal success should be common enough to perhaps almost be doable on accident more often than not. I really hate having to waste materials.

@Kalmyel: Mostly because there is a already precedent for that in Pathfinder: arcane spell failure. Armor gets in the way of a wizard's movements and gestures when casting spells which can cause a spell to fail. Asking us to ignore this would be asking us to ignore a very well known and core feature of the original system.
That said, there are certain classes (notably the magus), as well as feats, that can be used to get around spell failure. However, since Goblinworks is going for a more modular system to reflect classes I am concerned how they will encourage people to not always take the lessened spell failure options every time they make an arcane caster. Ultimately, time isn't that much of a cost, especially if a system allows for unlimited options.

Goblin Squad Member

L. A. DuBois wrote:


@Kalmyel: Mostly because there is a already precedent for that in Pathfinder: arcane spell failure. Armor gets in the way of a wizard's movements and gestures when casting spells which can cause a spell to fail. Asking us to ignore this would be asking us to ignore a very well known and core feature of the original system.
That said, there are certain classes (notably...

I also agree with this, one thing we absolutely have to watch out for, is the inevitable level of power creep that can and will slip in with more or less unlimited levels and multi-classing. Basing things too close to the original source, and then allowing removal of spell failure could be devastating. How many 1st-2nd level chars would it take to bring down the equivelant of a 20th level character, with the HP and armor of a paladin, slinging 9th level wizard spells. How big of a burden would that be to 1st level characters, how would they like to know that if they actually do devote the time and energy to actually climbing to that level of absolute power, said pali/wizard will most likely have evasion and favored enemies/terrain.

IMO gear is the most practical way to allow versatility IE you can get the perks of many classes, and some can go together, but not all.

Sovereign Court

Or perhaps choosing certain options locks out others unless you get a merit badge or something to allow multiclassing?
Perhaps, the badge would allow you to pick one or two locked out options that you otherwise qualify for and then continue from there, or something. That or a cap on how many total skills (or skill xp) you can train. A hybrid system could allow (and would probably be necessary for) archetypes.

Now remember that technically any character in Pathfinder is able to use any weapon or piece of armour, but doing so without the right training comes with hefty penalties. Rather than outright restricting equipment like most MMOs do, I'd like to see this aspect kept.

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