Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
Pathfinder Society

Pathfinder Beginner Box

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Pathfinder Comics

Pathfinder Legends

Shield Spikes and the 'Bashing' shield enhancement


Rules Questions


In 3.5, they stacked. I've searched and found that somewhere around here, a developer has stated that for Pathfinder they do not stack.

Does anyone have a link to that statement, if it does exist?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

They do not stack.

I will find the statement.


Only thing I can find is a JJ post here. But then, everyone always says to take JJ rulings with a grain of salt, so that's what I'm doing.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

See here.

Shield spikes can be enchanted in on their own, but do not improve a shield bash.

Bashing improves a shield bash.

Basically, you need to enchant the shield to improve the shield bash, not shield spikes.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

If your going to take dev posts with a grain of salt, then your going to be waiting a long time for official responses. They've made it quite clear that erratas/FAQs are extremely low on their priority lists of things to get done.

And while I like rapid fire FAQs/Erratas, I get why they don't do them. Its an unwinnable battle. The customers who want these rulings inevitably want another detailed question answer and another. With new rules coming out all the time it would take a lot of staff to keep on top of it all and they don't seem to think its worth that amount of time.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
blackbloodtroll wrote:

See here.

Shield spikes can be enchanted in on their own, but do not improve a shield bash.

Bashing improves a shield bash.

Basically, you need to enchant the shield to improve the shield bash, not shield spikes.

I think you have that backwards, they are saying that you don't get the enhancement bonus that applies to your shield bonus on attack rolls and have to otherwise enchant the spiked shield as a weapon in addition to enchanting it as armor.


SaddestPanda wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

See here.

Shield spikes can be enchanted in on their own, but do not improve a shield bash.

Bashing improves a shield bash.

Basically, you need to enchant the shield to improve the shield bash, not shield spikes.

I think you have that backwards, they are saying that you don't get the enhancement bonus that applies to your shield bonus on attack rolls and have to otherwise enchant the spiked shield as a weapon in addition to enchanting it as armor.

Exactly. If it was the other way, then you could enhance the shield as a weapon, and the shield spikes as a weapon, but then how would that stack? Wouldn't make any sort of sense. :P


Maezer wrote:

If your going to take dev posts with a grain of salt, then your going to be waiting a long time for official responses. They've made it quite clear that erratas/FAQs are extremely low on their priority lists of things to get done.

And while I like rapid fire FAQs/Erratas, I get why they don't do them. Its an unwinnable battle. The customers who want these rulings inevitably want another detailed question answer and another. With new rules coming out all the time it would take a lot of staff to keep on top of it all and they don't seem to think its worth that amount of time.

JJ is only a developer sometimes which is why people are wary to take his posts as "law" as far as rules/mechanics go. If it has to do with Golarion, JJ is king. If it has to do with Pathfinder mechanics, Sean and/or JB is king.

Sean and/or JB don't seem to have commented on the stackability however. All there is to "officially" go by is a 3.5 FAQ that says "yep, they stack." But then, so many little things seem to change from 3.X to PF...

(Also, last I saw JB post, he made it pretty clear that more FAQs were pretty high on their list of "stuff-to-do"...)


This directly contradicts the entry itself:

Rules wrote:

Benefit: These spikes turn a shield into a martial piercing weapon and increase the damage dealt by a shield bash as if the shield were designed for a creature one size category larger than you (see “spiked shields” on Table: Weapons). You can't put spikes on a buckler or a tower shield. Otherwise, attacking with a spiked shield is like making a shield bash attack.

An enhancement bonus on a spiked shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but a spiked shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right.

The first para says expressly any attack with a shield (spiked or not) is a shield bash.

The second says you can makes the spiked shield into a weapon which makes sense because enchanting a shield doesn't help offensively (bashing being the exception). People take that to mean you enchant the spikes which makes sense. But saying your then attacking with the spikes not the shield contradicts all the rest of the entry and numerous others (ie improved shield bash feat which applies to a shield bash not a seperate "weaponed" spike attack).

Then theres the fact that if you stack the bashing shield and enchanted spikes the first "plus 1" on the spike enchantment is lost (because it stacks with the bashing plus 1). So the whole thing is a terribly inefficient use of gold to start with.


Neo2151 wrote:
Maezer wrote:

If your going to take dev posts with a grain of salt, then your going to be waiting a long time for official responses. They've made it quite clear that erratas/FAQs are extremely low on their priority lists of things to get done.

And while I like rapid fire FAQs/Erratas, I get why they don't do them. Its an unwinnable battle. The customers who want these rulings inevitably want another detailed question answer and another. With new rules coming out all the time it would take a lot of staff to keep on top of it all and they don't seem to think its worth that amount of time.

JJ is only a developer sometimes which is why people are wary to take his posts as "law" as far as rules/mechanics go. If it has to do with Golarion, JJ is king. If it has to do with Pathfinder mechanics, Sean and/or JB is king.

Sean and/or JB don't seem to have commented on the stackability however. All there is to "officially" go by is a 3.5 FAQ that says "yep, they stack." But then, so many little things seem to change from 3.X to PF...

(Also, last I saw JB post, he made it pretty clear that more FAQs were pretty high on their list of "stuff-to-do"...)

JJ is a dev for golarian stuff. He wasn't and isn't responsible for core mechanics. He himself has stated this several times. However, he does provide his views on core mechanics on the forums. He himself has admitted to being wrong several times, as he doesn't have any special legitimacy in regards to rulings on core mechanics as he isn't a dev for core mechanics.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I think Bashing does not stack with Shield Spikes. The bashing property can only be used on light and heavy shields. In the equipment section you have a choice light shield or heavy shield. The spike shield, light or heavy is a different entry in the equipment table and doesn't qualify for Bashing property.


I've heard it explained that they are both essentially "size bonuses" and thus don't stack. That was before Lead Blades, so now we really need to know if this is the case and how that spell interacts with both spikes and Bashing.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well, can you enchant a shield, or shield spikes with the Bashing enchantment?

When you attack with an Adamantine shield with Cold Iron Shield spikes, does it count as Adamantine, or Cold Iron?

The answer to these questions should help with the answer to yours.


I don't think RAW provides an answer to that question, however.

Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder RPG / Rules Questions / Shield Spikes and the 'Bashing' shield enhancement All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002–2014 Paizo Inc.®. Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours: Monday–Friday, 10 AM–5 PM Pacific Time. View our privacy policy. Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc., and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Online, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.