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So I am just trying to figure out the options for weapons that work with a Monk's Unarmed Strike Ability. The only three I know of are:
* Brass Knuckles (I think?)
* Amulet of Mighty Fists (SO expensive!)
* Bodywrap of Mighty Strikes (WHY do you take up the same slot at the monk robe and only work on the first attack!?)
Is there any others that work? And do Brass Knuckles still work?
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From Ultimate Equipment.
monk
Bo staff, **brass knuckles, butterfly sword, cestus, dan bong,
double chained kama, double chicken saber, emei piercer,
fighting fan, jutte, kama, kusarigama, kyoketsu shoge,
lungchuan tamo, monk’s spade, nine-ring broadsword,
nine-section whip, nunchaku, quarterstaff, rope dart, sai,
sansetsukon, seven-branched sword, shang gou, shuriken,
siangham, tiger fork, tonfa, tri-point double-edged sword,
unarmed strike, urumi, and wushu dart.
**BKs have redacted as Light wpns, and therefore does it own dmg, not from the monk's.
Added:Some weapons will required an extra Feat *e.g. Martial Wpns Feat* to be more proficient.
There are a couple of amulets in UE (why more amulets to compete with AoMF? IDK) that you can activate to turn your fists into Cold Iron + Frost damage, or Adamantine (except doesn't overcome hardness for some reason) + Flaming.
Island Hopper: I am familiar what they are proficient with I was just curious about unarmed damage. Did they really change brass knuckles to a light weapon? So is there any WEAPON that can do Unarmed Strike damage now?
Ninja: Yeah I noticed some of those. As you pointed out they conflict with AoMF and don't really give you free reign on enhancement although the Cold Iron/Frost one is interesting.
There is no weapon that can do unarmed strike damage, other than an unarmed strike.
Edit: And I kind of hope someone proves me wrong.
bookrat: grumble. At least the cestus and gauntlet in 3.5 worked for unarmed strike damage even if they didn't work with the Flurry of Blows.
Redchigh: I do not mean to sound offensive but this is a UNARMED STRIKE only topic. Yes I understand there are A LOT of options for natural attacks but that is not what I am looking for.
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Apologies, didn't read it carefully.
Replies...
So I am just trying to figure out the options for weapons that work with a Monk's Unarmed Strike Ability. The only three I know of are:
* Brass Knuckles (I think?)
Corrections were made, that they no longer trasmit the monk's own damage via a second medium. It will stay at D3 dmg plus natural strength bonus and others.
* Amulet of Mighty Fists (SO expensive!)
Yes, bloody expensive, but is the only item that will allow Wpn damage type effects to the Unarmed Attacks in general
* Bodywrap of Mighty Strikes (WHY do you take up the same slot at the monk robe and only work on the first attack!?)
There is no true worth in getting this item. Yes, one first attack only on the first part of the round. Second, you get extra 'attacks' for every 6 levels of the vocation.Is there any others that work? And do Brass Knuckles still work?
Please keep in mind, the monk's unarmed damage will be greater overall than the cestus and gaunlet can put out.
If you are looking to increase the damage pool, yes...you will have to attain that expensive amulet and place extra Wpn dmg abilites that work on contact of blow, not critical sucess.
bookrat: grumble. At least the cestus and gauntlet in 3.5 worked for unarmed strike damage even if they didn't work with the Flurry of Blows.
Redchigh: I do not mean to sound offensive but this is a UNARMED STRIKE only topic. Yes I understand there are A LOT of options for natural attacks but that is not what I am looking for.
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So I am just trying to figure out the options for weapons that work with a Monk's Unarmed Strike Ability. The only three I know of are:
* Brass Knuckles (I think?)
* Amulet of Mighty Fists (SO expensive!)
* Bodywrap of Mighty Strikes (WHY do you take up the same slot at the monk robe and only work on the first attack!?)Is there any others that work? And do Brass Knuckles still work?
Brass Knuckles were errata'd out of unarmed strike almost as soon as they were published. They are now light weapons inflicting 1d3 damage.
All the monk threads are lamenting the fact that monks have no easy means of enhancing their unarmed strikes and this stacks with MAD to make them basically suck at hitting things, and fall well behind the curve in bypassing DR. There are some amulets in UE that grant special properties, but frankly they suck as they don't grant any bonus to hit.
Paizo have made clear that they have zero intention of making any item that renders the AoMF redundant, they do not see an item fix as fixing the monk's problems.
Dabller: Yeah I have seen all the threads I though they were just complaining because you couldn't use brass knuckles with Flurry. Frankly AoMF is a great item for natural attacks but unarmed strikes need something just for them and Paizo should get that in their heads. Damn now I am starting to sound like all the other Monk complainers...oh well. A simple boot weapon, wrist weapon, or gauntlet weapon that would work would be awesome even if it didn't work with flurry.
EDIT: After a little thought why not one of each. One for the kicker, one for the puncher and one for the elbow/body striker. Make them either automatic proficient monk weapon but do not work with flurry or exotic weapons that the monk is not proficient with that do work with flurry. Easy balance, does not work with natural attacks, not complicated and would not overpower the monk class.
Design Manager
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You could play a Zen archer and get your UAS damage with a bow at 5th level..... But for everyone else the devs are vehemently against any weapon allowing monks to gain their unarmed strike damage with the same enhancement progression and price as any other characters weapons, since no one would ever use the AoMF for their monk ever again if such a thing existed.
SSalarn: The AoMF is better suited for a natural attacker anyways! And considering how many things in pathfinder are or can be natural attacked based (rangers, druids, barbarians, dragon disciple, catfolk rogue, etc.) its not like no one would never use the damn thing!
EDIT: sorry did not mean to sound so hot-headed. I am just now really starting to see and understand why there are so many help the monk and monk suck threads out there which this one was not intended to be.
Trust me, I've been there.
I always used Brass Knuckles, I didn't ever even think of the AoMF as being the "go-to" Monk item until one of the devs said it was. Shows what I know I suppose.
My only response to the devs opinion on this one is: Grumble and mutter under my breath about ostriches and heads in sand.
I was under the impression that the latest printing of Brass Knuckles kept the specific wording that allows a Monk's Unarmed Damage to be applied.
After all, specific wording ALWAYS trumps generic table placement.
Neo: I thought so as well but apparently I was incorrect....
According to who? No one official unless they can link to proof that the text in Ultimate Equipment is wrong. :P
According to who? No one official unless they can link to proof that the text in Ultimate Equipment is wrong. :P
And devloper Statements ALWAYS trump anything the says or might be interpted to say short of houserules in your home game.
According to who? No one official unless they can link to proof that the text in Ultimate Equipment is wrong. :P
I thought they did change it in Ultimate Equipment?
Go ahead, try it in PFS.
I truly would love to hear the results.
I don't play PFS, but if those GMs want to ignore the most current, up-to-date wording of an item, well then that sucks for PFS players. :P
According to who? No one official unless they can link to proof that the text in Ultimate Equipment is wrong. :PAnd devloper Statements ALWAYS trump anything the says or might be interpted to say short of houserules in your home game.
The developer statement was made prior (two years ago?) to the book becoming public. (And I was under the interpretation that even developer statements were just that - statements, unless posted in an official capacity, such as an official FAQ/Errata.)
According to who? No one official unless they can link to proof that the text in Ultimate Equipment is wrong. :PI thought they did change it in Ultimate Equipment?
They changed it's placement on the weapons table. They printed the same text under the weapon description that exists in the previous version of the weapon (the one that allows for Monk Unarmed Damage).
Have they changed the PDF already? I was looking at a friend's on his tablet last time we gamed, I'm almost positive the line at the end about monks dealing their unarmed damage with brass knuckles was not there.
Ok...
for those that say that the brass knuckles no longer deal Monk's unarmed strike damage will you please post where it says so that we can see it?
Neo is right; unless posted on the FAQ, errata,etc. that it does not work (or a develop giving his personal opinion which must people respect as truth although not 100% valid) then the brass knuckles should deal Monk unarmed damage.
In 2011....
Added--The wording in EU at least, seems to add to the confusion on it's main function.
These weapons fit snugly around the
knuckles and allow you to deal lethal
damage with an unarmed strike. You
may hold, but not wield, a weapon or
other object in a hand wearing brass
knuckles. You may cast a spell with a
somatic component while wearing brass knuckles if you make
a successful concentration check (DC 10 + the level of the spell
you’re casting). Monks are proficient with brass knuckles. Brass
knuckles can’t be disarmed.
The only question now, which stands? Errata changes or the current book supplement?
Ok...
for those that say that the brass knuckles no longer deal Monk's unarmed strike damage will you please post where it says so that we can see it?
Neo is right; unless posted on the FAQ, errata,etc. that it does not work (or a develop giving his personal opinion which must people respect as truth although not 100% valid) then the brass knuckles should deal Monk unarmed damage.
I really like UE as a whole but Paizo seems to have dropped the ball on making sure it had the correct errata and FAQ information which would have been the proper place to put it all together as a final format...
In 2011....
Added--The wording in EU at least, seems to add to the confusion on it's main function.
These weapons fit snugly around the
knuckles and allow you to deal lethal
damage with an unarmed strike. You
may hold, but not wield, a weapon or
other object in a hand wearing brass
knuckles. You may cast a spell with a
somatic component while wearing brass knuckles if you make
a successful concentration check (DC 10 + the level of the spell
you’re casting). Monks are proficient with brass knuckles. Brass
knuckles can’t be disarmed.The only question now, which stands? Errata changes or the current book supplement?
Both. The literal meaning of the wording that Island Hopper19 bolded is that a character wearing brass knuckles can deal lethal damage with his punches, kicks, and head butts. Note that a character without Improved Unarmed Strike who does so will still provoke an attack of opportunity. The text does not say that the brass knuckles deal damage equal to the character's unarmed strike damage. It does not say that the material and enhancement bonuses of the brass knuckles affect unarmed strikes.
I recall, but I cannot find a reference, that brass knuckles and temple sword were included in the APG because the illustration of the monk in the Core Rulebook was wielding those weapons. However, this incarnation of brass knuckles offers nothing to a monk except a 1d3 weapon a monk can use during Flurry of Blows. Their best use would be for a wizard who wanted to hold a metamagic rod in one hand and cast spells with somatic components with the other hand yet also wield a weapon.
Dabller: Yeah I have seen all the threads I though they were just complaining because you couldn't use brass knuckles with Flurry. Frankly AoMF is a great item for natural attacks but unarmed strikes need something just for them and Paizo should get that in their heads. Damn now I am starting to sound like all the other Monk complainers...oh well. A simple boot weapon, wrist weapon, or gauntlet weapon that would work would be awesome even if it didn't work with flurry.
My solution was simple: allow ki-strike to apply an enhancement bonus to hit that scales with level. It's not an enhancement to damage, and it has no special properties, so the AoMF is still relevant (bonus to damage and properties), the monk just gets to keep up on the hitting front and the AoMF is gravy.
In 2011....
Added--The wording in EU at least, seems to add to the confusion on it's main function.
These weapons fit snugly around the
knuckles and allow you to deal lethal
damage with an unarmed strike. You
may hold, but not wield, a weapon or
other object in a hand wearing brass
knuckles. You may cast a spell with a
somatic component while wearing brass knuckles if you make
a successful concentration check (DC 10 + the level of the spell
you’re casting). Monks are proficient with brass knuckles. Brass
knuckles can’t be disarmed.The only question now, which stands? Errata changes or the current book supplement?
Where in the description does it say that Brass Knuckles apply their enhancement bonus to an unarmed strike, though? It only says: "and allow you to deal lethal damage with an unarmed strike" - the monk already does that.
Now looking at it under the weapon listings, it is a light weapon that does 1d3 damage. As such it does NOT do unarmed strike damage, and this is the business end. It's like an axe, you can club somebody with the haft (an improvised weapon) but you only get the enhancement bonus from a magic axe when you use the business end.
So presumably you can use Brass Knuckles to deliver lethal damage with an unarmed strike (and no enhancement bonuses), or use them as a light weapon doing 1d3 damage with enhancement bonuses.
Ok...for those that say that the brass knuckles no longer deal Monk's unarmed strike damage will you please post where it says so that we can see it?
I have seen it, I have searched for it again, but now I cannot find it. I'll keep looking and post a link to it if I can. If you search the subject "Brass Knuckles SKR" you will get a host of references to it but frustratingly no links.
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From what I've seen with the brass knuckles since the UEG printed is you treat them like any other weapon - they do nothing special with monks, bards, or sorcerers for that matter.,,,
so unarmed attacks are still the hardest to enchant / enhance in the game,,,
I know of these options:
A) Amulet of mighty fists (neck slot)
+ enhances all natural weapons and unarmed strke
+ Any weapon enchantment
+ the first +1 can be traded for a ability.
- gets expensive FAST
B) FORGE FIST AMULET (Neck, 13,000, UEG)
+ "hands" become adamantine and flaming (Unarmed strikes and natural attacks)
+ command to activate, swift to end
- "hands" cannot wield or grasp objects while activated
C)FROST FIST AMULET (Neck, 10,000, UEG)
+ "hands" become cold iron and frost
+ command to activate, swift to end
- "hands" cannot wield or grasp objects while activated
D)GOLEMBANE SCARAB (Neck, 2,500)
+ use standard action to detect golems within 60 ft
+ attack with weapons, unarmed attacks, or natural weapons as if those golems had no damage reduction.
> nice item to have when storming a wizards tower....
E) amulet from "Quest of perfection" (Neck, price?)
+ add 3 levels to monk for unarmed damage / bonus movement
- (Edit) dot NOT stack with monk robe
F) Monk robe (Body, 13,000)
+ add 5 levels to monk for unarmed damage, AC bonus, and an extra stunning fist.
G)DELIQUESCENT GLOVES (Hand, 8,000)
+ reshape to fit any hand, claw, tentacle,or alien limb.
+ if using a limb wearing the glove, the unarmed strike, natural attack ot melee weapon have the corrosive quality
+ limbs wearing the glove are protected from oozes "acid" ability
+ natural or unarmed strikes from these gloves never cause a ooze to split.
so optimal is:
+5 monk level unarmed damage
+1d6 Acid Damage
+1d6 Fire Damage
"Hands" count as adamantine.
golembane on standby.
hope you have 36,500 saved up.
if you are looking for feats, look up "Dragon Style"
if you can figure out a way to enlarge yourself, there is more unarmed damage.
so optimal is:
+5 monk level unarmed damage
+1d6 Acid Damage
+1d6 Fire Damage
"Hands" count as adamantine.golembane on standby.
How is this optimal? You have no bonus to hit whatsoever, and if you do not hit, you do not score any damage.
Optimal is +5 AoMF (or as high as you can afford), deliquescent gloves and monk's robe. +3 amulet bypasses silver or cold iron DR, +4 amulet bypasses DR/admantine, +5 amulet bypasses all DR.
That's +5 to hit and damage, +1d6 acid damage, bypass most DR save DR/slashing, DR/piercing and DR/-, and +5 monk levels on unarmed damage and AC bonus.
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true... though a +5 AoMF is 125,000 GP.... so total of 148,500?
Ouch!
at 10th lvl, my highest pathfinder society character has earned a total of 71,690 GP over 26 adventures.... (with 25k "expected" from the last 5 adventures before retirement)
(edit)
the previous advice is built on a gold limit somewhere in line with society.
(-edit-, said something snarky before my morning coffee that I shouldn't have)
I believe anything above a +2 AoMF is ridiculously overpriced... and if your monk has a high attack stat (STR based melee monks work well) hitting should not be a major issue....
if hitting is a common problem a +6 Str belt is more reasonable (at 36k).... or getting someone to enlarge you...
or better yet:
get poly-morphed: as a animal/plant/elemental/whatever of med. size or larger you get "size" or untyped bonuses to you stats, and can still make monk unarmed strikes in that form......
Damage reduction annoying you? don't care about ki and hate being lawfull? go Martial artist and get Exploit Weakness.
But I digress...
the subject is items to improve unarmed damage, since Brass Knuckles were changed AoMF is the only way to enchant unarmed strikes like weapons ..... unless you use the other Items mentioned.
Hope that helps!
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Design Manager
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In 2011....
Added--The wording in EU at least, seems to add to the confusion on it's main function.
These weapons fit snugly around the
knuckles and allow you to deal lethal
damage with an unarmed strike. You
may hold, but not wield, a weapon or
other object in a hand wearing brass
knuckles. You may cast a spell with a
somatic component while wearing brass knuckles if you make
a successful concentration check (DC 10 + the level of the spell
you’re casting). Monks are proficient with brass knuckles. Brass
knuckles can’t be disarmed.The only question now, which stands? Errata changes or the current book supplement?
Ok...
for those that say that the brass knuckles no longer deal Monk's unarmed strike damage will you please post where it says so that we can see it?
Neo is right; unless posted on the FAQ, errata,etc. that it does not work (or a develop giving his personal opinion which must people respect as truth although not 100% valid) then the brass knuckles should deal Monk unarmed damage.
The wording on Brass Knuckles in the APG used to include a specific statement that monks could use their unarmed strike damage with Brass Knuckles. This statement was deleted in Ultimate Equipment.
Added; The additional damage increase from Dragon Style of Teir 1, only applies to the very first attack blow, if using normal or FOBs, after that, it returns back to nornal damage based on the current PC's level of that monk class.
Dragon Style would let you get through DR/Slashing, wouldn't it?Boar style could.
Dragon style is more for treating unarmed strike like 2Hnd attacks (1.5 Str) and charging options..
Dragon Style would let you get through DR/Slashing, wouldn't it?
And Tiger Style, and Snake Style gets you through piercing. To be honest though, these are not major problems. I find something like DR/good is much more frustrating - had my monk shut down in a combat recently by a devil: high AC, high CMD, DR10/good left me unable to affect him except on a critical hit.
true... though a +5 AoMF is 125,000 GP.... so total of 148,500?
Ouch!
I said it was optimal, not cheap!
at 10th lvl, my highest pathfinder society character has earned a total of 71,690 GP over 26 adventures.... (with 25k "expected" from the last 5 adventures before retirement)
I assume "optimal" complies with pathfinder society without a gold cheat enabled... sorry if I was not clear on that.
I believe anything above a +2 AoMF is ridiculously overpriced... and if your monk has a high attack stat (STR based melee monks work well) hitting should not be a major issue....
I agree it is overpriced, but sadly hitting IS an issue with monks in my experience. Dex based monks with Weapon Finesse have the same hitting chance as a Str based monk, but odds are on MAD will drag down your total score enough to make +1-2 difference between you and a dedicated full-BAB class, the AoMF price puts you another +1-2 behind. Then you don't get the option to not-flurry for a better attack chance above 6th level, so that loses you another +2...
Overall, you are -2 to -6 behind the full BAB classes, or even a self-buffed 3/4 BAB class. Not for nothing is flurry-of-blows referred to as flurry-of-misses.
if hitting is a common problem a +6 Str belt is more reasonable (at 36k).... or getting someone to enlarge you...
or better yet:
get poly-morphed: as a animal/plant/elemental/whatever of med. size or larger you get "size" or untyped bonuses to you stats, and can still make monk unarmed strikes in that form......
I assume that all melee classes get the best belt they can afford. While it may seem that I am trying to 'out do' other melee classes, that isn't the point - the point is that all combat classes should hit a baseline to be effective, and the monk doesn't. He has situational abilities, but so do all the others, and they hit the baseline.
Damage reduction annoying you? don't care about ki and hate being lawfull? go Martial artist and get Exploit Weakness.
Oh yes, some archetypes overcome a few of the monk's problems, in exchange for some of the better features.
But I digress...
the subject is items to improve unarmed damage, since Brass Knuckles were changed AoMF is the only way to enchant unarmed strikes like weapons ..... unless you use the other Items mentioned.
A common fallacy is that enhancement for the monk is all about damage.
It's not.
It's all about hitting. Rack damage up as high as you like, if you do not hit, you score no damage.
For example, if Roger the Ranger is +3 to hit better off than Molly the Monk with the same number of attacks, against a target he hits 50% of the time with his first attack, he scores 150% of a hit per turn while Molly scores 90% of a hit per turn - and this assumes Roger is not buffing with spells or fighting his favoured enemy.
So whatever else you do, you have to get your odds to hit up, which is why the new amulets are pretty distractions.
Thank you everyone for the input and list of items that work with unarmed strike. Although I am a bit disapointed in the list (or actually lack of) WEAPONS that work with unarmed strike there is really nothing that can be done.
Seidaku: I said above but I will mention again that I am looking for Unarmed Strike only with no Natural Attack rules mixed in.
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The monk of the empty hand can do it with any improvised weapon (which for them is all weapons):
Ki Weapons (Su): At 5th level, a monk of the empty hand may spend 1 point from his ki pool as a swift action to deal damage equal to his unarmed strike damage with an improvised weapon for 1 round. At 11th level, the monk may spend ki to grant an enhancement bonus or magical weapon abilities to an improvised weapon for 1 round, at the rate of 1 point of ki per +1 bonus or its equivalent. The monk may not spend more than 3 points of ki at one time for this purpose. For example, a monk can spend 2 points of ki to give his improvised weapon a +1 enhancement bonus and the ki focus quality, or just the flaming burst quality. At 15th level, the limit increases to 5 ki per round. The monk may use this ability to add magical weapon qualities to improvised weapons that could not normally have such a quality, such as adding the disruption quality to a slashing weapon, or the vorpal quality to a bludgeoning weapon. This ability replaces purity of body and diamond body.
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Design Manager
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The monk of the empty hand can do it with any improvised weapon (which for them is all weapons):
Ki Weapons (Su): At 5th level, a monk of the empty hand may spend 1 point from his ki pool as a swift action to deal damage equal to his unarmed strike damage with an improvised weapon for 1 round. At 11th level, the monk may spend ki to grant an enhancement bonus or magical weapon abilities to an improvised weapon for 1 round, at the rate of 1 point of ki per +1 bonus or its equivalent. The monk may not spend more than 3 points of ki at one time for this purpose. For example, a monk can spend 2 points of ki to give his improvised weapon a +1 enhancement bonus and the ki focus quality, or just the flaming burst quality. At 15th level, the limit increases to 5 ki per round. The monk may use this ability to add magical weapon qualities to improvised weapons that could not normally have such a quality, such as adding the disruption quality to a slashing weapon, or the vorpal quality to a bludgeoning weapon. This ability replaces purity of body and diamond body.
Spending a ki point to deal UAS damage with any monk weapon for a round (like Brass Knuckles!) should just be a baseline monk ability alongside their other basic ki powers. It'd go a long way towards helping with their issues. It's one of the reasons Empty Hand and Zen Archer are such well-liked archetypes, they both have the ability to apply their UAS damage to their chosen weapon (whether that be a bow for the Zen Archer or a chair leg for the Monk of the Empty Hand).