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Pathfinder Fighter vs 3.5 Warblade


Conversions


Ok to make this quick, I have a friend that is running a game only in the pathfinder, but he is willing to convert some 3.5 material. I asked him if the warblade would be cool from 3.5. He said yes but will have to convert it.

Now he is doing a pretty big revamp of the warblade class. However, I think the Warblade class is fine as is..........but he said the Fighter can outdo the Warblade by level 6 and he thinks the Warblade needs readjusting to fit in the pathfinder system.

What do you all think, is the fighter than much powerful than the warblade in the pathfinder system?


Pure DPR wise the fighter does pull ahead.

The Warblade has a ton more cool things he can do. An is not far behind the fighter.
Use it as is.


If he wants to give freebies, don't stop him. :)

Overall, Fighter can do a little more damage on a full attack, but Warblade is better on the move and can actually do stuff other than hp damage.

Would you be using 3E or PF tumble DCs? One of the benefits of warblade was lots of strong standard action attacks and tumble as a class skill. It let him hit and run, or move past reach and hit. Having to deal with PF's suicidal tumble DCs would force the Warblade to fight more like a fighter -- standing still in melee combat like a piece of discarded furniture -- and undercut a lot of his best combat benefits he has over the fighter.

Also, his level breakdown is kind of funny. The general consensus is that ToB classes hit their peak around level 5-6 with the introduction of 3rd level maneuvers, many of which are a big step up from 2nd level. (like...Iron Heart Surge and White Raven Tactics...)
He seems to think that's when they start falling behind! Ha ha!


Darkghost316 wrote:

Ok to make this quick, I have a friend that is running a game only in the pathfinder, but he is willing to convert some 3.5 material. I asked him if the warblade would be cool from 3.5. He said yes but will have to convert it.

Now he is doing a pretty big revamp of the warblade class. However, I think the Warblade class is fine as is..........but he said the Fighter can outdo the Warblade by level 6 and he thinks the Warblade needs readjusting to fit in the pathfinder system.

What do you all think, is the fighter than much powerful than the warblade in the pathfinder system?

Maybe grant Warblades armor training at 7th level as a Fighter level -4?


Warblade is an extremely fun class to play. I haven't pitted it against the PF fighter, but I can't see it falling that horribly far behind, and the entertainment factor is there DPS race or no.

Warblade FTW is what i am saying.


I agree with Stubs.

What I loved about ToB was not the DPR potential of each class, but the large number of cool and unique things they could do!

It was a lot more fun than saying "I Full Attack" every single round.

If your GM is willing to give you extra stuff, I'd say follow Starbuck_II suggestion of reduced armor training and try getting some kind of bonus to tumble too, maybe equal to half class level?

Cheliax

I think it is less important to play a class that is 100% to the same power level as another class than it is to play something that you enjoy. So playing a so called weaker class is not a problem as long as you have fun. Pulling weight would be more based on wise choices on what to do with your turn, and picking a decent design instead of some crippled but "interesting" combination of race/clas/feat/equipment/tactics. Consider asking if you can play it as is and adjust if you all really feel you do fall behind at that time.

You will need to adjust some of the skills because some B9S skills were eliminated like concentration or folded together with others but that is very minor conversion.
I have never measured the dps race but while I believe the fighter may be able to out dps on full attacks, I do not see them doing it on the move. Even with the vital strike feat chain, do you. Really want to spend that many feats on the same thing? I would much more prefer the options of several maneuvers, which depending on what you pick can be more than just damage but tactical execution.

I would be worried about the GM saying later you are overpowered and later making it an excuse to not allow 3.5 or suplement material in the future.


Lemmy wrote:

I agree with Stubs.

What I loved about ToB was not the DPR potential of each class, but the large number of cool and unique things they could do!

It was a lot more fun than saying "I Full Attack" every single round.

If your GM is willing to give you extra stuff, I'd say follow Starbuck_II suggestion of reduced armor training and try getting some kind of bonus to tumble too, maybe equal to half class level?

That was what I always liked about it as well. You got to replace the standard "I move and attack" with a bunch of unique and awesome abilities.


Sad thing, is he thinks the fighter out does the warblade past level 6 in fighting in combat not just damage.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber

Granted how powerful the Tome of Battle material is compared to a baseline 3.5 fighters, I would probably just adjust the skill list and terminology as needed.

Some maneuvers need adjusting for their underlying skills, and I would suggest standardizing those with saves to use the secondary stat of the class, so Int for the Warblade (as I recall the save DCs were based on a stat dependent upon discipline, and that chart was buried somewhere). Tiger Claw's Jump translates directly to Acrobatics, and the only one I can think of where you really need to change the design are all the Concentration checks in Diamond Mind. Those are one thing I've never found a replacement I'm happy with in my efforts to convert & streamline ToB.

Basically, do a find/replace conversion, with the caveat that if you end up too powerful or too weak, you'll work with the DM to adjust it. Maneuvers are probably the best place to make adjustments if needed.

If you want to add, Armor Training seems like a good one to add. Perhaps, if you and the GM are concerned about falling behind on damage, add this caveat: Vital Strike feats work on maneuvers as well as simple attacks. (Or just scale up the damage boosts on the maneuvers themselves.)


I think ToB would work fine in PF, at least Warblade and Crusader. Swordsage was already the weakling of the 3, and the tumble changes badly hurt him.

A level 6 Warblade can strike as a standard action for normal damage +2d6 and ignore all DR and hardness of the target (I've used this to turn "impenetrable adamantine doors" into "ooh, free treasure in the form of soon to be adamantine ingots!"). He can parry a ray spell with the swipe of his sword as an immediate action. He can as a swift action cause one ally's initiative to change to "Warblade's - 1", letting the ally skip to the front of the line, or get another turn if he had just acted before the warblade (hint: warblade can delay and use it on the same ally again later). He can, as a standard, yell an attack cry and shatter an Antimagic Field, make a black tentacle field wither away, or cure himself of devil chills.

He has to refresh maneuvers for a round (which involves...attacking) before he can re-use. But other than that, yeah. A level 6 Warblade can easily do all of that. I love Tome of Battle so much. Warriors that can do cool stuff, such a novel concept! :)


For us, we took away the maneuver recharge mechanic (for all the classes), once you've used a maneuver its gone until you can rest for 1 minute, upon which you regain them all. Other than the skill adjustments, the rest is used as is.

Oh and Warblades get d10 HP.

Shadow Lodge

PhelanArcetus wrote:
the only one I can think of where you really need to change the design are all the Concentration checks in Diamond Mind. Those are one thing I've never found a replacement I'm happy with in my efforts to convert & streamline ToB.

I've always used Autohypnosis. Normally only psionic classes use it, but I think it fits thematically and as I normally have a psion or wilder in my group from time to time it's not as if no one else ever uses the skill.


Gambit wrote:

For us, we took away the maneuver recharge mechanic (for all the classes), once you've used a maneuver its gone until you can rest for 1 minute, upon which you regain them all. Other than the skill adjustments, the rest is used as is.[/QUOTE

That's pretty brutal...

Did you also ban Adaptive Style feat? Or were you unaware of how that can be used?

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