Does anyone know how old she is, when she was born, and when she took the throne of Cheliax?
And what would her view of Tieflings be?
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She's described as the child queen. I forget the exact year of birth or ascension (look on pathfinder wiki) but she's not an adult yet. I would say her view on the tiefling race is ambivalent. At best, they're a means to an end if they're even useful at all. I think she would exploit their infernal background in a heart beat if it served a purpose. But, at the end of the day she pays them no special attention.
Ah, I thought she was still a teenager.
Director of Game Development
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From home, I can't find when she assumed the throne, but by now, when PCs are encountering her, she's a young woman. Her illustration shows that as well.
But yeah, still probably thinks tieflings are low-class, mixed-blood scum.
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She was originally described as a child-queen, but it was retconned in either the Cheliax companion or the Inner Sea World Guide.
It makes sense being a level 16 sorcerer but I could totally see that pic as a 14 year old brat, haha. :)
Thanks for the reply.
One last question, if say tiefling saved her would she possibly grant him nobility? My Tiefling's background is that he either saved her life (from an accident and not an assassination plot) or that he was born into a noble family (minor but has been loyal to her family since it took control) and after they past away for whatever reason I have yet to determine has allowed him to keep his family's status.
Thoughts on this?
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if say tiefling saved her would she possibly grant him nobility?
Having needed saving by a "mongrel" is a great embarrassment, and likely the Tiefling would be rewarded by a swift death.
These are not nice people.
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My Tiefling's background is that he either saved her life (from an accident and not an assassination plot) or that he was born into a noble family (minor but has been loyal to her family since it took control) and after they past away for whatever reason I have yet to determine has allowed him to keep his family's status.
Thoughts on this?
Perhaps she has reason to dislike/distrust whoever would have received your PC's title if your PC was bypassed (perhaps an uncle or cousin of your PC). By officially recognizing a tiefling as the legitimate heir, she gives a major - and very public - brush-off to whoever that person was. It has nothing to do with your PC at all. It also means that the person she disliked has particular reason to hate your PC...
He could be (or rumoured to be) the descendant of a specific, somewhat important Devil.
Abrogail Thrune II is in her early 20s, and since the greater part of Cheliax views tieflings as second-class citizens, I'm certain she'd have a similar view of them.
Wiki says she appointed Aberian Arvanxi as Westcrown's Lord Mayor in 4689; she's been on the throne for 23 years since then. If she's in her early 20's now she'd have become queen before she could walk, and made that appointment by burping in Arvanxi's general direction.
Even if she did become queen before she could walk, she would have had an appointed regent who made those types of decisions in her name until she was old enough to assume the role of ruler in truth as well as in name.
I am aware of how Tiefling are viewed. I was thinking she did it for her own sick twisted amusement. Who would dare question the Queen after all?
As for being a Devil's son who would be a good fit? Don't they 'command' devils? So him being an heir would mean little as well right?
Abrogail Thrune II is in her early 20s, and since the greater part of Cheliax views tieflings as second-class citizens, I'm certain she'd have a similar view of them.Wiki says she appointed Aberian Arvanxi as Westcrown's Lord Mayor in 4689; she's been on the throne for 23 years since then. If she's in her early 20's now she'd have become queen before she could walk, and made that appointment by burping in Arvanxi's general direction.
The date could be an error.
The date probably isn't an error, since the same book providing the date also mentions that Arvanxi has been Mayor for about 20 years (which matches the date).
It's more likely that it wasn't actually Abrogail II who appointed him Mayor.
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Not to mention the whole Abrogail II age and length of rule is a bit messed up after the retcon of her as a child ruler from the original Pathfinder Campaign Setting. That book said she was the second-longest-reigning ruler of Cheliax in the last 70 years, and also said she was the 6th ruler. Based on that she would likely have been Queen for at least 15 years.
But then it was decided that the aspect of her being a child ruler didn't really fit the overarching vision of Cheliax, and that part was removed from The Inner Sea World Guide. I imagine she could still originally have been a child ruler (with regent, as mentioned in the CS), and only recently gained complete control.
The date probably isn't an error, since the same book providing the date also mentions that Arvanxi has been Mayor for about 20 years (which matches the date).
It's more likely that it wasn't actually Abrogail II who appointed him Mayor.
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Not to mention the whole Abrogail II age and length of rule is a bit messed up after the retcon of her as a child ruler from the original Pathfinder Campaign Setting. That book said she was the second-longest-reigning ruler of Cheliax in the last 70 years, and also said she was the 6th ruler. Based on that she would likely have been Queen for at least 15 years.
But then it was decided that the aspect of her being a child ruler didn't really fit the overarching vision of Cheliax, and that part was removed from The Inner Sea World Guide. I imagine she could still originally have been a child ruler (with regent, as mentioned in the CS), and only recently gained complete control.
Maybe Cheliax spent some time without a crowned ruler? the ISWG mention she is often underestimated because of her age.
The Wiki states she is a young queen, so I would assume she is probably 17 to 21 at which is okay, but can a dev confirm her age and when she took the throne if that is possible?
I do know that her great-grandmother Abrogail Thrune I seized power in 4640 A.R. but was murdered by her son Antoninus to take the throne. It doesn't state whether he did take the throne or if Abrogail herself automatically became Queen at a young age. I would guess she became queen after his death whether by natural order or assassination as there is no information on this. I don't know if the devs are planning anything in the future for her and the country.
If she assumed control after her great-grandmother died I wonder if then that part of the bargain was that only female heirs were allowed to rule? Hence why even after Antoninus killed his mother he couldn't take control?
It would also be safe to assume that Queen Thrune I made a bargain with Asmodeus himself and not with a random Devil of Hell?
Maybe she chugs alot of immortality elixor?
Greg
One possible source of her 'shining favor' upon the Tiefling is to embarrass a noble or house by rubbing a 'black sheep' in their noses. such a storyline occurred in my game ages ago, only with an elvish girl giving birth to a half-elven child her snooty family frowned upon. Lots of good RP that night.
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In Cheliax, being a Tiefling (or siring one) means that somewhere in your family's past, you failed to maintain control when treating with a fiend. It is a sign of weakness and failure. It means that a devil got the upper-hand on you.
The House of Thrune has somehow gained complete control over the denizens of hell. They wouldn't risk that control by empowering a Tiefling.
I do know that her great-grandmother Abrogail Thrune I seized power in 4640 A.R. but was murdered by her son Antoninus to take the throne. It doesn't state whether he did take the throne or if Abrogail herself automatically became Queen at a young age. I would guess she became queen after his death whether by natural order or assassination as there is no information on this.
The entire succession of rulers in Cheliax is written in the Cheliax Player Companion, although the length of each rule is not listed.
The 1st ruler was Abrogail I.
The 2nd ruler was Abrogail's son Antoninus.
The 3rd ruler was Antoninus's cousin Terthule.
The 4th ruler was Terthule's niece Carellia.
The 5th ruler was Carellia's cousin Infrexus.
The 6th ruler is Abrogail II.
Sweet thanks for the info. That'll do.
I still want to know Abrogail II's age.
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Given that Cheliax rewrites its own history at the drop of a hat, it's whatever she says it is this week.
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Apart from the fun of "Hah! I wasn't really dead you imbeciles!" I don't see why Asmodeus would bother with the failure she turned out to be. Cheliax is now synonymous with the Asmodean faith these days and every layer of society in Cheliax is most likely dominated by Asmodeans and other diabolists. Asmodeus has a beachhead in Golarion and then some. Why, then, bother with someone would couldn't even manage to keep her own offspring in line when her soul is put to much better use as a brick in some Hellish structure? This is, of course, assuming that Asmodeus even cares.
I still want to know Abrogail II's age.
I seem to recall James Jacobs saying that it was around 25 in some thread awhile back. Alas I do not have a link, but that's what I go with. 16th level sorcerer? Probably mid-20's.
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Because she laid the groundwork for that and while she her own children were an issue she still brought AN ENTIRE NATION to heel?
Certainly but I don't see devils, much less THE devil, as being grateful creatures. Unless it was specifically stated in whichever contract has been made between Hell and House Thrune that Abrogail I would be resurrected by Asmodeus himself in the unfortunate event of her death, I honestly don't see Asmodeus bothering with someone who couldn't hold her own against her own family. Certainly not when others have been able to maintain House Thrune's position in Cheliax since her death.
That said, I do think it's entirely possible that Abrogail I might have made such arrangements with the church of Asmodeus or some other archdevil. I just don't think Asmodeus himself would have anything to do with such an endeavor, other than providing the divine magic necessary for a resurrection as he would for any cleric casting resurrection.
All this is just how I see it. If you feel that Asmodeus would be interested in Abrogail I's continued existence in the mortal realm, that's cool.
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Perhaps gratitude isn't the right word. Asmodeus is smart enough to know a good servant shouldn't be discarded for one slip-up, and despite her demise, Abrogail I still achieved more for him than any other mortal agent of his up to that point, not only legitimizing his worship (I don't remember if this is in the books, but I seem to recall that it wasn't until House Thrune rose to power that Asmodeans were allowed to build public places of worship and practice their faith in the open, that before that time they were mostly limited to small, hidden cults that had to keep their heads down to keep various paladins of Aroden and Sarenrae from kicking down their doors) but making it the state religion of what had, up until recently, been the apex nation in the Inner Sea Region.
It would simply be bad form to toss aside someone that achieved THAT much in a mortal lifetime, and probably would have achieved even more had circumstance and the foolish greed of her children not undone it. Besides, showing her that kind of favor would only make Abrogail I even MORE loyal to Asmodeus, basically ensuring his favorite mortal follower (for a given value of favorite, considering Asmodeus loathes mortals on principle) will never betray or turn away from him, and that she can continue to use her tactical genius and persuasive skill to continue his long game of claiming all of mortalkind.
To return to the original topic, this could technically apply with tieflings too. Being shown favor by the most important person of all (whether that's Queen Abrogail or Asmodeus himself) would pretty much cement their loyalty for all time, and even if there's a social stigma, maintaining a tool's loyalty doesn't necessarily imply condoning the circumstances that led up to that tool's birth. To spoil Atop the Fourth Wall's plotline a few Halloweens ago, it's like Linkara's magic gun. Just because its powers come from the tortured soul of a little girl raised specifically to be the gun's power source, doesn't mean Linkara abandons his greatest weapon and ally in disgust. Granted, this probably isn't the best example, I just felt like plugging my favorite online show. :P
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Perhaps gratitude isn't the right word. Asmodeus is smart enough to know a good servant shouldn't be discarded for one slip-up, and despite her demise, Abrogail I still achieved more for him than any other mortal agent of his up to that point, not only legitimizing his worship (I don't remember if this is in the books, but I seem to recall that it wasn't until House Thrune rose to power that Asmodeans were allowed to build public places of worship and practice their faith in the open, that before that time they were mostly limited to small, hidden cults that had to keep their heads down to keep various paladins of Aroden and Sarenrae from kicking down their doors) but making it the state religion of what had, up until recently, been the apex nation in the Inner Sea Region.
It would simply be bad form to toss aside someone that achieved THAT much in a mortal lifetime, and probably would have achieved even more had circumstance and the foolish greed of her children not undone it. Besides, showing her that kind of favor would only make Abrogail I even MORE loyal to Asmodeus, basically ensuring his favorite mortal follower (for a given value of favorite, considering Asmodeus loathes mortals on principle) will never betray or turn away from him, and that she can continue to use her tactical genius and persuasive skill to continue his long game of claiming all of mortalkind.
*shrugs* I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't see it but it works for you and that's cool. :)
As for tieflings, I think the important issue in a case such as the one proposed by the OP, it really does depend on utility. If Abrogail II sees some use in the tiefling, whatever that use may be, the tiefling could very well gain her favor. What applies to Chelaxian society as a whole does not necessarily apply to the pinnacle of that society. Even if Abrogail II does feel it'd be a scandal if anyone found out she sponsors a tiefling, she has ways of making sure that doesn't happen. She is, after all, a well-connected diabolist. It would probably be very important to the majestrix that the relationship she has with any tiefling be seen by the public as a clear master/servant relationship and that it doesn't make her appear weak.
last i checked. she was like 12. she was spoiled and stuck up, very abusive, and hotter than the fires of hell. (i mean as in temper, not sexuality)
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True, I even remember reading at one point that her devil advisers actually try to mitigate and dissuade her from her darkest ideas and moods. She's too hardcore for even HELL!
I think it's not the better angels of a Devil's nature we are dealing with. In fact the Devils would willingly massacure or murder if it would aid them. Instead, they disuade her more so to avoid shocking the human population into reistance. At the same time many little evils go on a daily basis and slowly the population is desensitized to such evil.
There is a great line I think Albert Speer said, something along the lines of 'had we won, the paper would arrive, milk would be delivered, and on the surface everything would be completely normal.'
That is what the devils are doing in Cheliax.
True, I even remember reading at one point that her devil advisers actually try to mitigate and dissuade her from her darkest ideas and moods. She's too hardcore for even HELL!I think it's not the better angels of a Devil's nature we are dealing with. In fact the Devils would willingly massacure or murder if it would aid them. Instead, they disuade her more so to avoid shocking the human population into reistance. At the same time many little evils go on a daily basis and slowly the population is desensitized to such evil.
There is a great line I think Albert Speer said, something along the lines of 'had we won, the paper would arrive, milk would be delivered, and on the surface everything would be completely normal.'
That is what the devils are doing in Cheliax.
It might be along the line of; Devil are Lawful, Abrogail II is more Neutral-Chaotic in impulses
I still want to know Abrogail II's age.
Well, this year, all throughout Cheliax, we celebrated our Queen's 16th birthday. Of course, last year we also celebrated her 16th birthday. And the year before that. And the year before that. And the year before that...
Anyway, the child-queen's official age is "whatever she tells you her age is," and I wouldn't disagree with her, as I think the cerberi is still using the femur of the last person to disagree with her as a chew toy.
last i checked. she was like 12. she was spoiled and stuck up, very abusive, and hotter than the fires of hell. (i mean as in temper, not sexuality)
Retconned back in the Cheliax: Empire of Devils Player Companion.
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From home, I can't find when she assumed the throne, but by now, when PCs are encountering her, she's a young woman. Her illustration shows that as well.
But yeah, still probably thinks tieflings are low-class, mixed-blood scum.
Long live the Her Infernal Majestrix!! May we ever be blessed by her Justice!
Who made Aberian Arvanxi Lord-Mayor?
I thought it was Abrogail II in 4689 AR, but in Cheliax The Infernal Empire it says that Abrogail II was born in 4692 AR?
Is this an errata that i haven't heard of?
So then, in 4707 she would be 15, and in 4716 she will turn 24. She has held the throne since she was at most 15, and maybe even younger. Anyone have a date on when she assumed the throne?
Cheliax: The Infernal Empire says that Abrogail II became majestrix of Cheliax in 4709 AR.
I asked James Jacobs in his thread and he said the younger age is (now) correct.