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Does Paizo make a Psionics book for Pathfinder?

Andoran

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Paizo does not. Dreamscarred Press does.

If you need something now, the original printing is available in PDF here.


Or you can get all the info you need from the psionics section at the d20pfsrd.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules Subscriber

And of course, we should mention that the core psionic book from Dreamscarred is getting combined with their APG-equivalent more-classes-powers-and-races book, plus more goodies, as a hardcover, in a Kickstarter.

Link.

Shadow Lodge

psst Anguish, look at my first link. ;)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Modules Subscriber
TOZ wrote:
psst Anguish, look at my first link. ;)

But..... that isn't you! That guy is dashing and charismatic. You're dark, and well...kinda creepy >.>;


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

James Jacobs has hinted a few times on the "Ask James Jacobs" board that Paizo may be working on a "psychic magic" supplement. (No confirmation of its existence or release date.) However, he'd like it to be based on the regular spellcasting system, rather than the 3.5 psionics spell-point system.

His reasoning was: PFRPG already has a well-functioning system for arcane magic and divine magic, so why should psychic magic need a completely different rules set?

Personally, I've always felt the same way regarding the 3.5 psionics system-- which is one reason I never allowed psionics in my 3.5 games.


Haladir wrote:

James Jacobs has hinted a few times on the "Ask James Jacobs" board that Paizo may be working on a "psychic magic" supplement. (No confirmation of its existence or release date.) However, he'd like it to be based on the regular spellcasting system, rather than the 3.5 psionics spell-point system.

His reasoning was: PFRPG already has a well-functioning system for arcane magic and divine magic, so why should psychic magic need a completely different rules set?

Personally, I've always felt the same way regarding the 3.5 psionics system-- which is one reason I never allowed psionics in my 3.5 games.

I've always felt that the 3.x Sorcerer should have just been called the Psion, since it captures most of the feel of earlier editions of Psionics, while still making it sort-of Vancian.


Haladir wrote:

James Jacobs has hinted a few times on the "Ask James Jacobs" board that Paizo may be working on a "psychic magic" supplement. (No confirmation of its existence or release date.) However, he'd like it to be based on the regular spellcasting system, rather than the 3.5 psionics spell-point system.

His reasoning was: PFRPG already has a well-functioning system for arcane magic and divine magic, so why should psychic magic need a completely different rules set?

Personally, I've always felt the same way regarding the 3.5 psionics system-- which is one reason I never allowed psionics in my 3.5 games.

It's not a different rule set, it's just the Vancian system translated into power (spell) points.

Andoran

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Actually, it's just the Vancian system with bigger numbers and more math added on.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Actually, it's just the Vancian system with bigger numbers and more math added on.

Numbers going up means we're having fun, right TOZ? I figure that's at least how achievements work...

Shadow Lodge

What are 'achievements'?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
TOZ wrote:
What are 'achievements'?

Nebulous strange things that "g@mars" are always going on about... I don't quite understand it but there's this "point score" tied to it that apparently goes up.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Oh, like levels and XP.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules Subscriber
Haladir wrote:
so why should psychic magic need a completely different rules set?

Because new and interesting mechanics to learn and master are interesting.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I agree with Mr Jacobs, psionics should follow the rules and machanics of magic. None of this video game magic point crap that turned me off of psionics for years. Also calling something else other then psionics would be nice like psychic magic, mystic magic, etc. also I would love to a psychic related class called an Esper instead of Psion.


Personally I hate the vancian slell slots, it's one of the reasons I picked up psionics in the first place, and even was working on converting arcane and divine magic to the points system as well. It's just too rigid for my tastes.

Asta
PSY


Cavian wrote:
TOZ wrote:
What are 'achievements'?
Nebulous strange things that "g@mars" are always going on about... I don't quite understand it but there's this "point score" tied to it that apparently goes up.

Depends upon actual game.

Spoiler:
In World Of Warcraft achivements are special deeds that can be performed to gain achivemenet points (which, as far as I can tell do nothing except being thing to brag about - someone who actually plays WoW should correct me if I am wrong) and a few of which gain some vanity prizes such as titles, non-combat pets, mounts or tabards.

For example you get achivement for revealing map of a zone, higher tier achivement for revealing maps of all zones on the continent and finally achivement and a tabard for revealing maps of all zones in the game. There are achivemenets for completing dungeons, achivements for completing all dungeons from one expansion, for performing unique challenges in dungeons and raids (such as killing all raid bosses in undermanned party, killing very lethal boss without anyone dying, etc.).

In Lord Of The Rings Online, there are deeds that work quite similarly, but unlike WoW achivements they grant solid rewards in form of Turbine Points (currency used to purchase things from in-game store, including unlocking regions and expansion packs - LOTRO combines free to play with microtransactions) and Virtues - traits that grant bonuses when placed into one of limited number of virtue slots. Farming Turbine Points is a primary way of accessing higher level content. Unlike WoW some deeds in LOTRO involve farming a high number of regular enemies within certain zones (like kill zillion orcs in Moria to gain +1 level of Valor Virtue and 5 TP, then kill two more zillions of orcs to gain +1 level of Patience and 10 TP). Thankfully there is lots of deeds that does not involve grinding monsters and large chunks of the monster killing deeds tend to be completed while completing quests in the zones anyway.

Shadow Lodge

To tell the truth, I don't really expect Pazio to do anything more extensive than having a psionic bloodline for the sorcerer that eliminates all need for material, verbal, and somatic components.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber
TOZ wrote:
Oh, like levels and XP.

To quote the immortal FPS Doug:

My heart's beatin',
my heart's beatin',
my hands are shakin',
my hands are shakin',
but I'm still shootin',
it's like BOOM!HEADSHOT, BOOM!HEADSHOT, BOOM!HEADSHOT,
BO-OM!HEAD-SHOT!!!!!


Haladir wrote:

James Jacobs has hinted a few times on the "Ask James Jacobs" board that Paizo may be working on a "psychic magic" supplement. (No confirmation of its existence or release date.) However, he'd like it to be based on the regular spellcasting system, rather than the 3.5 psionics spell-point system.

His reasoning was: PFRPG already has a well-functioning system for arcane magic and divine magic, so why should psychic magic need a completely different rules set?

Personally, I've always felt the same way regarding the 3.5 psionics system-- which is one reason I never allowed psionics in my 3.5 games.

Sounds funny from the people who created the Word of Power magic system.


Haladir wrote:

James Jacobs has hinted a few times on the "Ask James Jacobs" board that Paizo may be working on a "psychic magic" supplement. (No confirmation of its existence or release date.) However, he'd like it to be based on the regular spellcasting system, rather than the 3.5 psionics spell-point system.

His reasoning was: PFRPG already has a well-functioning system for arcane magic and divine magic, so why should psychic magic need a completely different rules set?

Personally, I've always felt the same way regarding the 3.5 psionics system-- which is one reason I never allowed psionics in my 3.5 games.

Interestingly, I remember him saying that psionics would follow it's own set of rules to separate it from DSP's psionics.

DSP's psionics is probably the closest you'll get to core psionics, though. I've heard that DSP's psionics is a refinement of the 3.5 psionics content, and since Pathfinder is said to be compatible with 3.5... well, I wouldn't be surprised if someone called that line of logic "cheeze" but it's the best we have right now.


Harrison wrote:
DSP's psionics is probably the closest you'll get to core psionics, though. I've heard that DSP's psionics is a refinement of the 3.5 psionics content, and since Pathfinder is said to be compatible with 3.5

DSP's stuff is 3.5 psionics deliberately updated to work well with Pathfinder.


Maerimydra wrote:
Haladir wrote:

James Jacobs has hinted a few times on the "Ask James Jacobs" board that Paizo may be working on a "psychic magic" supplement. (No confirmation of its existence or release date.) However, he'd like it to be based on the regular spellcasting system, rather than the 3.5 psionics spell-point system.

His reasoning was: PFRPG already has a well-functioning system for arcane magic and divine magic, so why should psychic magic need a completely different rules set?

Personally, I've always felt the same way regarding the 3.5 psionics system-- which is one reason I never allowed psionics in my 3.5 games.

Sounds funny from the people who created the Word of Power magic system.

Word of Power magic system? Interesting. In which book is that? Ultimate Magic?

Shadow Lodge

see wrote:
Harrison wrote:
DSP's psionics is probably the closest you'll get to core psionics, though. I've heard that DSP's psionics is a refinement of the 3.5 psionics content, and since Pathfinder is said to be compatible with 3.5
DSP's stuff is 3.5 psionics deliberately updated to work well with Pathfinder.

Yeah, them wack 3PP discovered Pathfinder sometime last month or so.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I am very sad I discovered that kickstarter this morning

Addendum: I have the impression a pathfinder psion will be a single class ala alchemist, magus. Not a whole book and system. I also expect it wont be named Psion so as to keep fans of the old system and DSPs stuff from constantly comparing the two and determining which is 'better'


goldomark wrote:
Maerimydra wrote:
Haladir wrote:

James Jacobs has hinted a few times on the "Ask James Jacobs" board that Paizo may be working on a "psychic magic" supplement. (No confirmation of its existence or release date.) However, he'd like it to be based on the regular spellcasting system, rather than the 3.5 psionics spell-point system.

His reasoning was: PFRPG already has a well-functioning system for arcane magic and divine magic, so why should psychic magic need a completely different rules set?

Personally, I've always felt the same way regarding the 3.5 psionics system-- which is one reason I never allowed psionics in my 3.5 games.

Sounds funny from the people who created the Word of Power magic system.
Word of Power magic system? Interesting. In which book is that? Ultimate Magic?

Yep, it's a new magic system that is more flexible and versatile than the vanilla magic system, but it is also more complicated to use (you have to learn a new sub-system, after all) and less powerful. Any existing spellcaster class can be a word caster, and you don't have to replace the vanilla spellcasting system with the word of power system to use the latter in your campaing: a word caster and a standard caster can be in the same party at the same time.

IMHO, using the Words of Power system makes the game more balanced in the sense that the martials/casters disparity becomes less important than with the vanilla spellcasting system, since a lot of spells were toned down in the Words of Power system, but a more balanced game doesn't necessarily means a more enjoyable one.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Dragon78 wrote:
I agree with Mr Jacobs, psionics should follow the rules and machanics of magic. None of this video game magic point crap that turned me off of psionics for years. Also calling something else other then psionics would be nice like psychic magic, mystic magic, etc. also I would love to a psychic related class called an Esper instead of Psion.

Video game crap? Sorry, but the original psionic power points were out years before video games were even conceived of, back in the days of AD&D.

Psionics is arguably a better system than Vancian magic - not more powerful, but more intuitive in how it works and more in line with fantasy novel 'magic' as people conceive it to be.


Dabbler wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:
I agree with Mr Jacobs, psionics should follow the rules and machanics of magic. None of this video game magic point crap that turned me off of psionics for years. Also calling something else other then psionics would be nice like psychic magic, mystic magic, etc. also I would love to a psychic related class called an Esper instead of Psion.

Video game crap? Sorry, but the original psionic power points were out years before video games were even conceived of, back in the days of AD&D.

Psionics is arguably a better system than Vancian magic - not more powerful, but more intuitive in how it works and more in line with fantasy novel 'magic' as people conceive it to be.

The only problem I have with psionic is not the mechanical system, nor the fluff of psionic classes, nor the way psionic interact with magic.

The only problem I have with psionic is that, well, it's too much similar to the actual magic system. I mean, what is the point of buying a new book, learning an all-new sub-system and play a "psionic" character if you end up using psionic powers that are psionic clones of spells that already exist? Psionic powers like "Psionic Grease", "Psionic True Strike" and "Psionic Enlarge Person" make me wonder if the devs were uninspired or just lazy when the wrote the first psionic handbook for D&D 3E.

If Paizo chose to make their own "psionic" classes or sub-system, I hope it would lead to something truly different, something more refreshing than "spellcasters in armor and no free hand".


Maerimydra wrote:
Dabbler wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:
I agree with Mr Jacobs, psionics should follow the rules and machanics of magic. None of this video game magic point crap that turned me off of psionics for years. Also calling something else other then psionics would be nice like psychic magic, mystic magic, etc. also I would love to a psychic related class called an Esper instead of Psion.

Video game crap? Sorry, but the original psionic power points were out years before video games were even conceived of, back in the days of AD&D.

Psionics is arguably a better system than Vancian magic - not more powerful, but more intuitive in how it works and more in line with fantasy novel 'magic' as people conceive it to be.

The only problem I have with psionic is not the mechanical system, nor the fluff of psionic classes, nor the way psionic interact with magic.

The only problem I have with psionic is that, well, it's too much similar to the actual magic system. I mean, what is the point of buying a new book, learning an all-new sub-system and play a "psionic" character if you end up using psionic powers that are psionic clones of spells that already exist? Psionic powers like "Psionic Grease", "Psionic True Strike" and "Psionic Enlarge Person" make me wonder if the devs were uninspired or just lazy when the wrote the first psionic handbook for D&D 3E.

If Paizo chose to make their own "psionic" classes or sub-system, I hope it would lead to something truly different, something more refreshing than "spellcasters in armor and no free hand".

There will always be some overlap, like telekinisis. But yeah, renaming some powers would have been better.

But I am not sure they can be that different from other existing classes. Flavor seems like the real important thing to focus on and maybe a special mechanics after that. What are summoners and witches if not wizards with a different flavor?

I'd be curious to see a Psylock (warlock mechanics with psionic flavor).


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules Subscriber
Maerimydra wrote:

The only problem I have with psionic is that, well, it's too much similar to the actual magic system. I mean, what is the point of buying a new book, learning an all-new sub-system and play a "psionic" character if you end up using psionic powers that are psionic clones of spells that already exist? Psionic powers like "Psionic Grease", "Psionic True Strike" and "Psionic Enlarge Person" make me wonder if the devs were uninspired or just lazy when the wrote the first psionic handbook for D&D 3E.

If Paizo chose to make their own "psionic" classes or sub-system, I hope it would lead to something truly different, something more refreshing than "spellcasters in armor and no free hand".

First of all, part of the charm of the psionics system is that it IS mechanically different. It's another way to manage limited resources that challenges the player to think of new tactics. That said, that's not for everyone.

Second, it needs be pointed out that while there is considerable overlap in what many psionic powers do relative to existing spells, that's absolutely, completely by design. dispel psionics, which works just fine on traditional magic, is absolutely essential. To deny the psionic system that mechanic would be ludicrous. Same with detect psionics. That said, the reason why they aren't literally the spells dispel magic and detect magic is because of the fluff you say you don't mind.

Once you get the essential staples covered, there are rather a lot of unique powers that the psionic system has that the divine/arcane magic system doesn't. While there are a lot of damage-dealing powers, they tend to work differently; the classic fireball isn't present, but instead you get neat things like energy missile.

It's worth mentioning that neither psionic grease nor psionic true strike exist as far as I know. Expansion is the equivalent of enlarge person but... well... it's personal, can enlarge you more than one size (if you can pay the power point cost), can be manifested as a swift action (if you can pay the power point cost), and can have a duration of 10 min/lvl (if you can pay the power point cost). So... iconic but clearly different utility. It's limited to the psychic warrior class power list, which is pretty much the gish / magus only created nearly a decade ago. So again, different.

You might consider picking up the system and actually trying it out. When and if you do, imagine the sorcerer class had never been written. That's what psionics is meant to be; a self-provided magic system that's a spontaneous caster. No gods, no books... just your own force of will.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
goldomark wrote:

The only problem I have with psionic is not the mechanical system, nor the fluff of psionic classes, nor the way psionic interact with magic.

The only problem I have with psionic is that, well, it's too much similar to the actual magic system. I mean, what is the point of buying a new book, learning an all-new sub-system and play a "psionic" character if you end up using psionic powers that are psionic clones of spells that already exist? Psionic powers like "Psionic Grease", "Psionic True Strike" and "Psionic Enlarge Person" make me wonder if the devs were uninspired or just lazy when the wrote the first psionic handbook for D&D 3E.

I agree with you about the names. But there are sadly not many ways you can create a new system that does different things than the existing system, because the existing system can cover just about everything.

Mind you, DSP did change a lot of names "psionic grease" became "ectoplasmic sheen" for example.


Anguish wrote:
You might consider picking up the system and actually trying it out. When and if you do, imagine the sorcerer class had never been written. That's what psionics is meant to be; a self-provided magic system that's a spontaneous caster. No gods, no books... just your own force of will.

Oh, I already own the EPH (3.5) and I'm quite familiar with the system, although I never played a psionic (they are so many other character concepts I would want to explore before playing one), and none of the other players in my group ever expressed the will to play one since we started playing D&D 3.0 (then 3.5, then Pathfinder).

However I have to agree that the Wilder, with her wild surge ability, or the Psion, with the overchannel feat, make much more interesting "sorcerers" than the vanilla Sorcerer, which is probably my least favorite class in Pathfinder (along with the Oracle). I really like the "risk-reward" mechanics of those classes and I have often considered adding them to the Sorcerer class while removing all the bloodline stuff as a house-rule. The Wild Surge ability would actually give to the Sorcerer something to gain from his simple weapon proeficiency.

Silver Crusade

Dabbler wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:
I agree with Mr Jacobs, psionics should follow the rules and machanics of magic. None of this video game magic point crap that turned me off of psionics for years. Also calling something else other then psionics would be nice like psychic magic, mystic magic, etc. also I would love to a psychic related class called an Esper instead of Psion.

Video game crap? Sorry, but the original psionic power points were out years before video games were even conceived of, back in the days of AD&D.

Psionics is arguably a better system than Vancian magic - not more powerful, but more intuitive in how it works and more in line with fantasy novel 'magic' as people conceive it to be.

Vancian magic by its very name is more like a fantasy novel system, as that's just what it is. Check out Jack Vance's excellent Dying Earth series and be dazzled.

Andoran

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Winter_Born wrote:
Vancian magic by its very name is more like a fantasy novel system, as that's just what it is. Check out Jack Vance's excellent Dying Earth series and be dazzled.

Which 3.5 spellcasting is nothing like. And psionics is just as fantasy as any other spellcasting.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules Subscriber
Dabbler wrote:
Mind you, DSP did change a lot of names "psionic grease" became "ectoplasmic sheen" for example.

Huh. I did not know that. I did a block search for the word "grease" in the book and came up empty. Sucks to be me.


Anguish wrote:
Dabbler wrote:
Mind you, DSP did change a lot of names "psionic grease" became "ectoplasmic sheen" for example.
Huh. I did not know that. I did a block search for the word "grease" in the book and came up empty. Sucks to be me.

It was called "Grease, Psionic" back in 3.5.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Winter_Born wrote:
Dabbler wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:
I agree with Mr Jacobs, psionics should follow the rules and machanics of magic. None of this video game magic point crap that turned me off of psionics for years. Also calling something else other then psionics would be nice like psychic magic, mystic magic, etc. also I would love to a psychic related class called an Esper instead of Psion.

Video game crap? Sorry, but the original psionic power points were out years before video games were even conceived of, back in the days of AD&D.

Psionics is arguably a better system than Vancian magic - not more powerful, but more intuitive in how it works and more in line with fantasy novel 'magic' as people conceive it to be.

Vancian magic by its very name is more like a fantasy novel system, as that's just what it is. Check out Jack Vance's excellent Dying Earth series and be dazzled.

Seen it, read it, among many other books I own. Know something? it is the ONLY set of fantasy novels in which that kind of magic is used. No other series uses it that isn't a D&D-based story. None.

Now read some other fantasy books and you will find a LOT use a system of magic that comes down to 'I will it to happen and it does' - from David Edding's Belgariad to Judy Cavanagh's Black Magician series.

Andoran

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Don't forget Modesitt's Recluce Saga.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Or wheel of time!


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Don't forget Modesitt's Recluce Saga.

One thing we CAN forget is how "magic" worked in Demon War Saga. Seriously, it felt like a bad video game magic system where you have to collect stones of every colors. Gotta Catch 'Em All! :P

Silver Crusade

Dabbler wrote:
Winter_Born wrote:
Dabbler wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:
I agree with Mr Jacobs, psionics should follow the rules and machanics of magic. None of this video game magic point crap that turned me off of psionics for years. Also calling something else other then psionics would be nice like psychic magic, mystic magic, etc. also I would love to a psychic related class called an Esper instead of Psion.

Video game crap? Sorry, but the original psionic power points were out years before video games were even conceived of, back in the days of AD&D.

Psionics is arguably a better system than Vancian magic - not more powerful, but more intuitive in how it works and more in line with fantasy novel 'magic' as people conceive it to be.

Vancian magic by its very name is more like a fantasy novel system, as that's just what it is. Check out Jack Vance's excellent Dying Earth series and be dazzled.

Seen it, read it, among many other books I own. Know something? it is the ONLY set of fantasy novels in which that kind of magic is used. No other series uses it that isn't a D&D-based story. None.

Now read some other fantasy books and you will find a LOT use a system of magic that comes down to 'I will it to happen and it does' - from David Edding's Belgariad to Judy Cavanagh's Black Magician series.

Matters not. It's the basis of DnD's magic system, and is based on fantasy novels.

Andoran

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Winter_Born wrote:
Matters not. It's the basis of DnD's magic system, and is based on fantasy novels.

It has not been the basis of the game for quite a few years now.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Winter_Born wrote:
Matters not. It's the basis of DnD's magic system, and is based on fantasy novels.

Psionics is also a long established part of the D&D magic system, and is based on a lot more fantasy novels.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

For some reason I disliked the name psionics. Loved how they worked in a lot of games, just the name feels too SciFi to me. So I always end up changing the name.

I know, silly but I can't help it.

And of course Psionics showed up in my Traveller games as named.

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