A Dilemma


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Roberta Yang wrote:


Guy Kilmore wrote:

I always think that when one GMs a game it is a good idea to communicate his or her expectations up front. This lets the players decide if they want to participate in this kind of game.

It sounds like you and your friend want to play different kinds of games. That is ok, there are other things to do with friends.

Wait, what part of this story made you get the impression that the problem was the GM wasn't communicating well enough and didn't suit the player's goals?

He was asking how to be assertive in the OP, I was encouraging said assertiveness and present how I do it. Sometimes when there is a conflict, it is a good idea to backtrack and go to the ground floor of the social paradigm. In this case, it could be returning back to "Hey, this is how I see what the game is, where is everyone else at?"

ETA: Plus what he just said in the post before mine was that one of his fears is he might not have communicated his expectations correctly.


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Well, I have talked to all the players and we seem to have worked out a compromise that is acceptable to everyone;

I worked with him and created something more to his liking, which has the following abilities;

Humanoid (Orc)
+2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Charisma
30 Base speed
Darkvision
Weapon Familiarity: Greataxe, treat weapons with "Orcish" in the name as martial
Scent
+2 racial bonus to Survival

This fits in well with the concept he had of orcs (being less dumb brutes) while also being something that I actually like. I believe it was worked out to 10 RP, bringing it more in-line with the other races. I don't really see any large issues with this, do you?

Thank you for all the help everyone. The support I received here has been phenomenal.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

First welcome to the boards. Second I am late to the party but that final build looks ok to me.


Explain that players choose their classes and races from what the dm allows, you don't get to make a new race just for your char.


I wouldn't allow cha as the negative stat.. too many reasons to dump charisma already... a -2 int doesn't make a race oh so stupid.. it is very easily overcome if one wants do even the smallest amount of work. If you want orcs to be as intelligent as humans, then -2 Wis.. they are brutish and very capable, but sometimes rash and don't plan too far ahead.

That is my thought on the build... +2 str, con, -2 cha, darkvision, scent, and a bonus to tracking along with scent... There is almost no reason to choose any other race for a martial character. Human for bonus feat, but then again, you gain a proficiency with a nice 2h weapon, and have orc weapon familiarity, at least equivalent to a exotic weapon feat.

Don't underestimate the power of scent... within 30ft he automatically knows there is something there, and he remembers / identifies scent like you do visual queues. He can track with scent, DC 10 with most negative modifiers removed (other than time itself).

Good luck!


I think the Orc should have the Xenophobic language array if you're going to go with the -2 Cha antisocial raging bruiser type of Orc. Other than that, he can dump Cha to 7 (-2 = 5) if he wants. Giving nice stuff to martials was never going to imbalance the game anyway.

Silver Crusade

Shedeo wrote:

Well, I have talked to all the players and we seem to have worked out a compromise that is acceptable to everyone;

I worked with him and created something more to his liking, which has the following abilities;

Humanoid (Orc)
+2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Charisma
30 Base speed
Darkvision
Weapon Familiarity: Greataxe, treat weapons with "Orcish" in the name as martial
Scent
+2 racial bonus to Survival

This fits in well with the concept he had of orcs (being less dumb brutes) while also being something that I actually like. I believe it was worked out to 10 RP, bringing it more in-line with the other races. I don't really see any large issues with this, do you?

Thank you for all the help everyone. The support I received here has been phenomenal.

It's certainly good, but not game breaking good. The Big issues are the optimized ability scores and scent.

personally, I would make the -2 to Wisdom or replace the +2 Con with Dex. But if you leave them the way they are, it won't break the game. You'll just have to realize that he's going to be very well optimized.

Scent like I said in an earlier post is pretty good, but not the worst thing in the world. Players have reasonable ways to get the ability, so it's not terrible for him to have it.

It's certainly good, but you've done a good job reigning him in.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

Shedeo wrote:
This fits in well with the concept he had of orcs (being less dumb brutes) while also being something that I actually like. I believe it was worked out to 10 RP, bringing it more in-line with the other races. I don't really see any large issues with this, do you?

Just be aware that scent is listed as an advanced trait; allowing it for a race with only 10 RP is granting an advantage that was never intended for races in the RP range.


Hmm, I had not considered that point, Epic Meepo. However, scent is one of those things that, while it is good, is not something that I am horribly worried about.

The unbalanced ability scores are more in the direction of something I disliked, but I can live with them. Honestly, I still prefer the dwarf's or human's modifiers for martial characters myself, but you are correct; they are very good for that kind of character.

So that said, I think that it worked out. He's happy with something that isn't half-orc or full orc (I still would have gone with half-orc myself, but whatever) and I am happy with something that seems more in-line with the other races than not.


At any rate, scent seems more like the kind of "allowance" you always intended to make.

The other thing was way over the top.

I'm glad you got closure on this, Shedeo. Good luck, and don't be a stranger!


Evil Lincoln wrote:

At any rate, scent seems more like the kind of "allowance" you always intended to make.

The other thing was way over the top.

I'm glad you got closure on this, Shedeo. Good luck, and don't be a stranger!

Thanks again, and you can be certain I won't be a stranger.


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And remember -- Hold your high ground. There is something in a lot of GM's natures that make us able to take a disproportionate amount of the work or give us an instinct to capitulate to make others happy. This is not a bad thing... BUT YOU MUST REMEMBER YOUR SPINE.

You're all hung up on having to say no when you previously said yes... when if people were honoring what was already established (core books only) we wouldn't be here in the first place.

Stop being a voodoo doll for every pin that belongs someplace. Stick those knives where they belong.


The issue was that I started big and moved to something small. If I had stated core books only initially (which is what I should have done) it would have never come up in the first place.

Next time, that is exactly what I will do.

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