If I take this feat at 19th level and apply it to a 9th level spell, I'll get the benefits from doubled DC bonuses and whatnot but I won't be able to apply any free metamagic feats, correct?
That would seem to be the case, yes. The only exception would be metamagics that don't increase the spell level at all, but I think the only one of those is Merciful Spell, and all it would get you is the cast time not increasing if you were a spontaneous caster.
That would seem to be the case, yes. The only exception would be metamagics that don't increase the spell level at all, but I think the only one of those is Merciful Spell, and all it would get you is the cast time not increasing if you were a spontaneous caster.
Kinda what I figured, thanks. Basically if you wanted to get a free use of Quicken Spell (for instance), your Spell Perfection choice would have to be 5th level or lower.
Here's a more advanced question. This is Spell Perfection as its written:
Benefit: Pick one spell which you have the ability to cast. Whenever you cast that spell you may apply any one metamagic feat you have to that spell without affecting its level or casting time, as long as the total modified level of the spell does not use a spell slot above 9th level. In addition, if you have other feats which allow you to apply a set numerical bonus to any aspect of this spell (such as Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Weapon Focus [ray], and so on), double the bonus granted by that feat when applied to this spell.
The emboldened part is the one I have a question about. Let's say I take the Eldritch Heritage feat line for the Arcane Bloodline which includes the feat Greater Eldritch Heritage that will grant the ability 'School Power', described below:
School Power (Ex): At 15th level, pick one school of magic. The DC for any spells you cast from that school increases by +2. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by Spell Focus.
That's a feat that's granting a 'set numerical bonus'... so does it benefit from Spell Perfection's doubling?
its should double as well, but i can understand a gm that would not like those dc :)
I don't think it would because the feat is granting you an extraordinary ability rather than directly giving you the +2. I don't really have any precedent for that, unfortunately other than trying to look real hard at the fine print.
I might be wrong though, and it would be very easy to make an argument that it would be doubled, but I feel confident that the intent is that it would not double since School Power would still technically be an Extraordinary ability you got from a feat rather than a feat itself.
I don't think it would because the feat is granting you an extraordinary ability rather than directly giving you the +2. I don't really have any precedent for that, unfortunately other than trying to look real hard at the fine print.
I might be wrong though, and it would be very easy to make an argument that it would be doubled, but I feel confident that the intent is that it would not double since School Power would still technically be an Extraordinary ability you got from a feat rather than a feat itself.
This was kind of my take and how I would probably rule it as a GM... as a player though, I rather like taking advantage of every bonus I can so I was looking for some other opinions.
I certainly understand that. There would be a little bit of a balance issue though in that if it did double, then the only people who couldn't get the double benefit from it would be people who are actually Arcane bloodline sorcerers. Of course, they wouldn't be spending 5 feats to get doubled School Power, but for a +4 DC and some other nice things, 5 feats would definitely be worth it.
Final question (more Advice this time) - For a Kitsune Sorcerer of the Fey Bloodline... which is the better option for Spell Perfection in your mind: Dominate Person or Hold Monster? The other Metamagic feats taken will be Still Spell, Silent Spell, Persistent Spell and Quicken Spell.
Hold Monster in my opinion. It can be used on a much wider selection of creatures than Dominate Person, and its cast time is only 1 standard action compared to Dominate Person's 1 round cast time. It will allow a melee in the right position to Coup De Grace the target, which is frequently fatal at higher levels, even against tougher enemies.
Also, looking at the Quicken Spell feat, it has some Special attachment at the end in the PRD that implies it couldn't be used to cast a spontaneous Quicken Dominate Person.
Special: You can apply the effects of this feat to a spell cast spontaneously, so long as it has a casting time that is not more than 1 full-round action, without increasing the spell's casting time.
Hold Monster in my opinion. It can be used on a much wider selection of creatures than Dominate Person, and its cast time is only 1 standard action compared to Dominate Person's 1 round cast time. It will allow a melee in the right position to Coup De Grace the target, which is frequently fatal at higher levels, even against tougher enemies.
Also, looking at the Quicken Spell feat, it has some Special attachment at the end in the PRD that implies it couldn't be used to cast a spontaneous Quicken Dominate Person.
Special: You can apply the effects of this feat to a spell cast spontaneously, so long as it has a casting time that is not more than 1 full-round action, without increasing the spell's casting time.
Excellent points. I rather like the idea of being able to open combat with a Quickened Hold Monster and then a Persistent Hold Monster, both at a DC 34-37 save. Hold Monster it is - thank you everyone.