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Barbarian Am Smash - A guide to the Barbarian


Advice

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sunbeam wrote:

I'd like to see some builds too, specifically for the Mounted Fury archetype.

I think the Savage Barbarian sounds really cool. If they had gone with damage reduction or something instead of what they did it would make a heck of a lot more sense. Still there ought to be something that can be done with it.

Is there a matrix anywhere with what Barbarian archetype goes with what other archetype?

Not that I'm aware of, but the d20pfsrd has a grid that shows you which replaces what class features.

You can cross reference there to see if any X's overlap.


Thanks Trinam!!

This long awaited guide is a beauty! Now for some comments....

1) I too think Raging Brutality is a useful feat. At level 12 with Raging Vitality and 16 starting Con easily getting a plus 12 to damage on 3-4 attacks will be possible. I believe Raging Deathblow is the feat tax required to make the rage expenditure reasonable as you will be recouping some rage rounds as foes drop.

2) Speed is a natural weapon enhancement for Pouncers,with Furious and Keen your pounce weapon is done. An AOO weapon could be built differently!

3) Righteous Vigor which gives temp hitpoints for each hit scored is a "natural" pre-combat buff for Barbs. Assuming an inquisitor another option,(for Elamdri!), would be using the shared judgement spell and the Healing Judgement with the Ring of Friend Shield (if using STR Rangers Improved Stalwart ideas this begs for Fast Healer). This is likely an either or as a superstious Barb getting more than one buff is ????

4) Lunge as a feat may tend to blue. I am not sure of this but consider a CAGM Barb with a reach weapon and armor spikes could maximise his AOO's both for movement and CAGM by establishing combat ranges. He would for example engage at 15 feet and force foes to either attack and eat an AOO for movement or if they have the Lunge feat our Barb could still CAGM. Also creatures with innate reach could still recieve CAGM attention. Additionally a "Lunging" charge is more likely to be able to inflict CAGM AOO's on the player turn... (the level 15 Orc bloodline ability Giant form would obviate the need for lunge however!)


1 I need to look into, and I agree on 2 that they are nice enchantments, but equipment is highly informal.

As for 3, I'm not aiming to get into buffs... That goes under their respective class.

On point 4, Id agree with Lunge being Green/Blue if not for one thing: It only lasts until the end of your turn. You cannot extend your AoO area with Lunge. Because of that, I rated it lower.


yeti1069 wrote:

StrRanger, A couple of questions:

1) How do you layout your starting stats for 15/20 point builds? For 15, I'd think maybe 16 Str, 12 Dex, 15 Con, 10 Int, 10 Wis, 7 Cha?
2) Do you find that DMs feel rage cycling is cheesy? Or does anyone else feel this way?
3) Does Optimistic Gambler extend the duration of your rage whenever you end it, for 1d4 rounds, or is that only +1d4 to the number of rounds you could rage for the day?
4) Is Missing Child (not sibling I think) just for the +1 to Will saves, or do you use it for the skills? What would you take in place of this if you didn't care for the skill bonuses?
5) How do you get around Superstitious possibly preventing buffs and healing?

STR Ranger here.

I am playing my CaGM barb. Look in the Profile to see scores. for 20pt buy.

2. I LIKE rage cycling, but in reality it doesn't get used much. Full Attack=Death so I really only Str Surge to RESIST a CM.

3.Extends rage whenever you end it. Crazy good. Not essential but great if DM lets you. If not you generally have enough rage per day by level 6.

4. I take Missing Sibling for the Skills. Doesn't really matter what the other trait is. Superstition negates the need for save traits so take whatever you like.

5. Have an Understanding with your Wiz/Cleric. You are an engine of destruction. so they only need to enable you. Delay to accept a Buff, THEN kill everyting in sight. Besides, creative magic can bring enemies to the Barb. I had an illusionist/enchanter buddy who would make foes believe I was thier loyal bodyguard and would protect them from the party, "Run to the big guy, he'll protect you!"


My input is that I am reading your doc on an iPad and the margins have been cropped in my reader, so I have to guess what comes at the beginning and end of each line. I don't know if that is helpful to you, or even something you can improve.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Looks like your guide was added to the Guide to the Guides.


Ciaran Barnes wrote:

My input is that I am reading your doc on an iPad and the margins have been cropped in my reader, so I have to guess what comes at the beginning and end of each line. I don't know if that is helpful to you, or even something you can improve.

There's nothing I can do about that in google docs, unfortunately. Sorry.

Cheliax

Ciaran Barnes wrote:

My input is that I am reading your doc on an iPad and the margins have been cropped in my reader, so I have to guess what comes at the beginning and end of each line. I don't know if that is helpful to you, or even something you can improve.

This happened to me as well when I tried to view it on my phone; I ended up downloading a Google App, and I can view it fine now. Perhaps you could try finding an App as opposed to viewing it in browser?


harmor wrote:
Looks like your guide was added to the Guide to the Guides.

I am trying to find the words to express my glee.

I am unable to do so, so I drew a crude picture of a stick figure kitten with a huge happy face instead.

I do not have a scanner, but know that it is a very happy kitten. Thanks very much for the placement!


Trinam wrote:
harmor wrote:
Looks like your guide was added to the Guide to the Guides.

I am trying to find the words to express my glee.

I am unable to do so, so I drew a crude picture of a stick figure kitten with a huge happy face instead.

I do not have a scanner, but know that it is a very happy kitten. Thanks very much for the placement!

This guide is absolutely stellar. One of the most accurate guides this board has produced. Nice work.

If I had one suggestion, it would be that "Extra Rage Power" probably deserves to be blue. Both of your the barb builds suggested (and they are _good_ suggestions) would benefit from taking it 2-4 times in the first 10 levels, because Rage Powers are so freakin' good.

-Cross


Patch v 1.2

Updates: STR Ranger's CAGM Build added to new section, 'Builds.'
Raging Brutality, Stalwart, and Improved Stalwart added to feats.
Reduced Marine damage by 1.
Infestors now have an instant-win button, for 25 energy.

...I might have not done some of the things mentioned, I dunno.


I would agree with Crosswind. Extra Rage Power is not a sexy feat to describe but it is the be all end all feat that allows you to build extremely versatile barbarians = Blue. I think in my 12th lvl human barbarian I only have 4 real feats (Power Attack, Raging Vitality, Combat Reflexes, and Dazing Assault). The rest (3 feat slots) are Extra Rage Power. Probably in any 20th lvl build, half of your feats will be extra rage powers. They Are That Good.


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Lab_Rat wrote:
I would agree with Crosswind. Extra Rage Power is not a sexy feat to describe but it is the be all end all feat that allows you to build extremely versatile barbarians = Blue. I think in my 12th lvl human barbarian I only have 4 real feats (Power Attack, Raging Vitality, Combat Reflexes, and Dazing Assault). The rest (3 feat slots) are Extra Rage Power. Probably in any 20th lvl build, half of your feats will be extra rage powers. They Are That Good.

Also, a superior barbarian build to the one linked in your guide. That guy is right on like 90% of things, but delaying Spell Sunder 'til 13 is super harsh. It's too good to pass up. And Strength Surge isn't good enough to take at 4.

An alternative build (for humans):

Level 1: Power Attack, Improved Sunder
Level 2: Lesser Beast Totem
Level 3: Extra Rage Power: Superstition
Level 4: Reckless Abandon
Level 5: Extra Rage Power: Witch Hunter
Level 6: Spell Sunder
Level 7: Extra Rage Power: Beast Totem
Level 8: Strength Surge
Level 9: Combat Reflexes
Level 10: Greater Beast Totem
Level 11: Dazing Assault
Level 12: Come and Get Me
Level 13: Extra Rage Power: Eater of Magic
Level 14: Improved Damage Reduction
Level 15: Greater Sunder
Level 16: Improved Damage Reduction
Level 17: Extra Rage Power: Improved Damage Reduction
Level 18: Knockback
Level 19: Extra Rage Power: Ghost Rager
Level 20: Unexpected Strike

I think the feats and powers line up a bit better, though me and STR Ranger agree on a lot of stuff.

-Cross (Edited to go to 20 and be non-redundant past 13)


Apparently UE has a magical item that produces infinite string and rope and is much cheaper than a merciful dagger.


Lab_Rat wrote:
I would agree with Crosswind. Extra Rage Power is not a sexy feat to describe but it is the be all end all feat that allows you to build extremely versatile barbarians = Blue. I think in my 12th lvl human barbarian I only have 4 real feats (Power Attack, Raging Vitality, Combat Reflexes, and Dazing Assault). The rest (3 feat slots) are Extra Rage Power. Probably in any 20th lvl build, half of your feats will be extra rage powers. They Are That Good.

Hrmmm... The four feats you've got there are very good ones to get, but I'd want to add Improved Sunder to the list on top of it, simply to boost Spell Sunder's roll and prevent it from causing AoOs when I use it. That offsets the balance to 5/2 over 12 levels (Assuming Human), and that does set up for the other 2 ERPs to enable you to get the entire Beast Totem line and the entire Spell Sunder line with one Rage Power left over...

Probably for Reckless Abandon. ERP does a lot enable the build coming together early, it looks like. This confirms it is definitely good.

The question though, is if 'IT AM OPTION ALMOST AS GOOD AS BARBARIAN. ONLY BARBARIAN STILL BETTER, BECAUSE BARBARIAN AM AWESOME.'

I was on the fence on this one between blue and green tbh, and when I'm on the fence I generally err to the lower.


Dotting, because one day, I'll play a Barbarian.


Crosswind wrote:

Also, a superior barbarian build to the one linked in your guide. That guy is right on like 90% of things, but delaying Spell Sunder 'til 13 is super harsh. It's too good to pass up. And Strength Surge isn't good enough to take at 4.

An alternative build (for humans):

Level 1: Power Attack, Improved Sunder
Level 2: Lesser Beast Totem
Level 3: Extra Rage Power: Superstition
Level 4: Reckless Abandon
Level 5: Extra Rage Power: Witch Hunter
Level 6: Spell Sunder
Level 7: Extra Rage Power: Beast Totem
Level 8: Strength Surge
Level 9: Combat Reflexes
Level 10: Greater Beast Totem
Level 11: Dazing Assault
Level 12: Come and Get Me
Level 13: Extra Rage Power: Eater of Magic
Level 14: Improved Damage Reduction
Level 15: Greater Sunder
Level 16: Improved Damage Reduction
Level 17: Extra Rage Power: Improved Damage Reduction
Level 18: Knockback
Level 19: Extra Rage Power: Ghost Rager
Level 20: Unexpected Strike

I think the feats and powers line up a bit better, though me and STR Ranger agree on a lot of stuff.

-Cross (Edited to go to 20 and be non-redundant past 13)

It's official. I am right 90% of the time.


Sad. I can't seem to find my dealthless initiate orc build that fights on in huge negatives.


You should look harder, 'cuz that sounds pretty awesome.


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I would suggest adding the Courageous weapon enchantment (from UE) after Furious as a must have for a barbarian's weapon. You get to add half the weapon enhancement bonus to any morale bonus. This means that your barbarian's +5 weapon (+7 with furious) will also give you a +3 to Str and Con while raging (+3's are as good as +4's 50% of the time - depending on your ability scores), and a side benefit is the weapon's full enhancement bonus to saves vs. fear. Not too shabby.

Also worth considering, a Cracked Opalescent White Pyramid Ioun Stone will grant weapon familiarity for only 1500 gp, and placed in a Wayfinder (for just another 500gp) will grant weapon focus. This is a great, cheap way for a barbarian (or any martial class really) to either gain another +1 to hit with the weapon of his choice, and even use some of the more exotic weapons, like the falcatta, fauchard, dwarf longhammer, etc. with the added benefit of weapon focus.


Sounds great. I don't have Ultimate Equipment yet but I need tosee that.

UE sounds like it has a lot of "must have" gear.


STR Ranger wrote:

Sounds great. I don't have Ultimate Equipment yet but I need tosee that.

UE sounds like it has a lot of "must have" gear.

Courageous:

Price: +1 Bonus
This special ability can only be added to a melee weapon. A courageous weapon fortifies the wielder’s courage and morale in battle. The wielder gains a morale bonus on saving throws against fear equal to the weapon’s enhancement bonus. In addition, any morale bonus the wielder gains from any other source is increased by half the weapon’s enhancement bonus(minimum 1).

I also found the link to your deathless half-orc build:

http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz64f4?Improved-Stalwart-HalfOrc-Deathless-Barbar ian#1

It's pretty kick ass.


STR Ranger wrote:
Crosswind wrote:

Also, a superior barbarian build to the one linked in your guide. That guy is right on like 90% of things, but delaying Spell Sunder 'til 13 is super harsh. It's too good to pass up. And Strength Surge isn't good enough to take at 4.

An alternative build (for humans):

Level 1: Power Attack, Improved Sunder
Level 2: Lesser Beast Totem
Level 3: Extra Rage Power: Superstition
Level 4: Reckless Abandon
Level 5: Extra Rage Power: Witch Hunter
Level 6: Spell Sunder
Level 7: Extra Rage Power: Beast Totem
Level 8: Strength Surge
Level 9: Combat Reflexes
Level 10: Greater Beast Totem
Level 11: Dazing Assault
Level 12: Come and Get Me
Level 13: Extra Rage Power: Eater of Magic
Level 14: Improved Damage Reduction
Level 15: Greater Sunder
Level 16: Improved Damage Reduction
Level 17: Extra Rage Power: Improved Damage Reduction
Level 18: Knockback
Level 19: Extra Rage Power: Ghost Rager
Level 20: Unexpected Strike

I think the feats and powers line up a bit better, though me and STR Ranger agree on a lot of stuff.

-Cross (Edited to go to 20 and be non-redundant past 13)

It's official. I am right 90% of the time.

Looking back on my post, it seems dickish (a "superior" build) - sorry 'bout that! Your build is almost 100% right, but by messing with feats and being human, you can really lock in the whole spell sunder line early while not lagging behind on beast totem at all.

-Cross


True.

The only thing I don't like about your build is the lack of Raging Vitality.
Each to his own.

Any thoughts on improving the Deathless Half Orc build I made?

@Darandriel. Courages sounds great for a Barb and Even Better for the Wild Stalker build since he's getting Rage AND Touch of Rage
With both up, the weapon adds +6 to hit.


Also out of UE, the Cord of Stubborn Resolve is a 15,000gp belt-slot item that allows rage cycling in exchange for taking 1d6 nonlethal in doing so. That is, any time you would become fatigued, you instead take that damage. It also gives a +2 boost to CON.

It takes up a belt slot.


It's seeming more and more like I might actually have to get UE.


Pharmalade wrote:

Also out of UE, the Cord of Stubborn Resolve is a 15,000gp belt-slot item that allows rage cycling in exchange for taking 1d6 nonlethal in doing so. That is, any time you would become fatigued, you instead take that damage. It also gives a +2 boost to CON.

It takes up a belt slot.

Does it allow Dr to soak up that damage so at 6th level an invulnerable rager takes no damage from it?


Speaking of DR,
Here is a repost of my most recent version of the 'Deathless' Barbarian. If you guys can help me get it too the same levels of Awesome as the CaGM build maybe it would be worth Trinam putting it in the guide.

Deathless Barb:

Name: Olgen Breakjaw Build: Invulnerable Rager 20 Race: Half-Orc (Shaman's Apprentice, Skilled racial traits) Alignment: Chaotic Good Theme- CANNOT BE KILLED!! RAGH! Ability Scores: 20pts STR 18 (4 points to Str 22) DEX 14 CON 17 (1 point to Con 18) INT 7 WIS 10 CHA 7 Skills= 4-2(INT)+1(Skilled)= 3per level Favored Bonus: Rage Rounds 2 traits- Strong Will (+1 will saves- Cayden), Optimistic Rager- Rage lasts 1d4 extra Rounds

1-Rager1:Fast Movt, Rage, Endurance, Power Attack 2-Unamred Fighter1: Imp Unarmed Strike, Crane Style 3-Rager2:DR1/-, Guarded Life, Raging Vitality 4-Rager3:Extreme Endurance 5-Rager4:DR2/-, Power: Superstition, Diehard 6-Rager5 7-Rager6:DR3/-, Heat Resist1, Gtr Guarded Life, Stalwart 8-Rager7 9-Rager8:DR4/-, Witchunter, Ferocious Tenacity 10-Rager9:Heat Resist2 11-Rager10:DR5/-,Flesh Wound, Improved Stalwart 12-Rager11:Greater Rage 13-Rager12:Heat Resist3, DR6/-, Come and Get Me, Combat Reflexes 14-Rager13 15-Rager14:DR7/-, Spell Sunder, Raging Brutality 16-Rager15:Heat Resist4 17-Rager16:DR8/-, Smasher, Grudge Fighter 18-Rager17:Tireless Rage, Str Surge 19-Rager18:DR9/-, Heat Resist5, Sunder Enchantment, Destroyer's Blessing 20-Rager19

ok, I dropped The beast totem line when I worked out as nice as pounce is this guy does enough damage in 2rounds to drop a level appropritate foe anyway. He still has come and get me so he gets a ton of extra attaks anyway.

It allowed me to fit in Guarded Life, Gtr Guarded Life And Flesh Wound. this lets him convert ALOT of damage to non-leathal (for which his normal DR is doubled.)

Now you'll not he has spellsunder but not Lunge or Imp Sunder. He does'nt need it. Imp Unarmed Strike and a Cestus means he threatensadjacent foes anyway. He fights with a Reach weapon. Not Sure what yet but a Lucerine Hammer gives +2 to Sunder Attempts.

At high levels he can Sunder Spells and Gear. Raging Brutality REALLY ups damage but costs rage. Whatever damage is not taken away by the guarded life powers, can be negated by Ferocious Tenacity.

I took Skilled Racial Trait so I could dump Int and CHA to the floor and still get 3 skills per level. 18 CON+Belt of Perfection 6+Gtr Rage+6, Raging Vitality+2= Able to go to -32hp before dying.

Destroyer's Blessing is a Late pick but by then he'll be sundering every damn thing and using Raging Brutality ALOT.

What ya think?


good guide but a couple points on practical play advice

1) Paizo APs want you to have skills, no need to dump charisma if you want to participate in the storyline.

2) In actual play, stuff is always in the way. Unarmed strike & Dragon Style are the best level 1&3 feat combo IMO. I know it doesnt make your damage better in your DPR l33t Olympics, but you get to actually charge almost anytime you like . Combined with a reach weapon and your unarmed/natural attacks, you're always in attack range it seems.


Lastoth wrote:

good guide but a couple points on practical play advice

1) Paizo APs want you to have skills, no need to dump charisma if you want to participate in the storyline.

2) In actual play, stuff is always in the way. Unarmed strike & Dragon Style are the best level 1&3 feat combo IMO. I know it doesnt make your damage better in your DPR l33t Olympics, but you get to actually charge almost anytime you like . Combined with a reach weapon and your unarmed/natural attacks, you're always in attack range it seems.

1) If you are unable to participate in the storyline at all without having at least a 10 charisma, there is a problem. My 7 charisma Barbarian in Kingmaker has no problems being the General, and while he does not have the greatest of intimidate checks, he tends to be able to leverage an ad-hoc penalty from breaking through a wall when making his point when he needs to get things done. He even owns a successful business, because Heart of the Fields is WIS-based. YMMV, but even then it's okay to consider leaving the talking to the talky people. That's practically all that Bards are for.

2) If IUS and Dragon Style work for you, then more power to you. Dragon Style was the entire reason I gave IUS orange, after all. Since the level charge problems become relevant at is 10, I find that ready access to flying and cohesive party tactics does just as well to ensure a charge lane as Dragon Style does, and it saves you a swift action. Admittedly, you will run into problems if you have a party fighter who runs ahead of you, but a reach weapon will fix that problem and save you a pair of feat slots. I am something of a fan of reach weapons on Barbarians, but i always seem to go Greatsword first just because I'm a sucker for GIANT SWORDS.


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Okay. So the whole point here is:
------
The guarded life chain lets you make 2x your barbarian level nonlethal
Invulnerable Rager DR applies 2x.
------
REQUIRED feats/Powers here are:
Primary Powers: Guarded Life, Greater Guarded Life, Flesh Wound,
Secondary Powers: Superstition, Witch Hunter, Spell Sunder, Come And Get Me
Feats: Endurance, Diehard, Ferocious Tenacity, Power Attack

Crane Style, Stalwart and Improved Stalwart allow you to get +6 DR at the cost of 3 feats and a -2 penalty to AB, and (by RAW) this DR is not doubled against nonlethal damage.

Alternatively, taking Increased Damage Reduction 3 times gives you 3 DR which _is_ doubled (6 DR!) against nonlethal damage. So, that's better.
-----
So, I'd go with:

1-Rager1:Power Attack, Endurance
2-Rager2: Guarded Life
3-Rager3: Diehard
4-Rager4: Superstition
5-Rager5: Destroyer's Blessing
6-Rager6:Gtr Guarded Life
7-Rager7: Ferocious Tenacity
8-Rager8: Increased DR
9-Rager9: ERP: Increased DR
10-Rager10:Flesh Wound
11-Rager11: Dazing Assault
12-Rager12: Come and Get Me
13-Rager13 ERP: Increased DR
14-Rager14:Witch Hunter
15-Rager15:Improved Sunder
16-Rager16:Spell Sunder
17-Rager17:ERP: Raging Vitality
18-Rager18:Strength Surge
19-Rager19: ERP: Ghost Rager
20-Rager20: Raging Brutality

Advantages:
I get dazing assault along with Come and Get Me. It's really not worth doing CaGM without some way of negating those attacks entirely.
I get Destroyer's Blessing WAY earlier, which lets me stock up on rage rounds for Flesh Wound.
I don't do dips in other classes so half the time my DR/- is 1 higher.
I pick up 3 Increased DRs. By level 14, I'm rocking 10 DR/-, which is 20 DR/- against nonlethal.
You'll notice that, in general, I cluster my feats better. Witch Hunter, Improved Sunder, Spell Sunder all come together. By themselves, they're sort of useless, so there's no reason to spread them out.

Spell Sunder is still _late_. But the deathless idea sort of requires a lot of early investment, because you really don't want to risk biting it.

--------

Basically, by RAW, at level 5 this build is immortal. You have infinite rounds of rage per day (Destroyer's Blessing), and you have the ability to bring damage you take down to 1 (Ferocious Tenacity) so long as you have rage rounds, and you can mitigate a ton of that damage with double-DR.

While playing this, you will want to invest in the Belt of Rage Cycling mentioned above, and probably some fortification armor. The only way you're biting it is by massive damage that you haven't prepared for by repeatedly sundering a tree.

-Cross


It's an interesting idea. The thing to keep in mind is that Ferocious Tenacity only works 1/round due to using an immediate action, and Flesh Wound requires you to make a fortitude save which the math shows is difficult to do against a CR appropriate challenge.


Trinam wrote:
It's an interesting idea. The thing to keep in mind is that Ferocious Tenacity only works 1/round due to using an immediate action, and Flesh Wound requires you to make a fortitude save which the math shows is difficult to do against a CR appropriate challenge.

Sort of depends on how you want to read the rules.

"with a DC equal to the damage that would be dealt by the attack"

If that damage is the post-DR damage (which is the actual damage that would be dealt by the attack), that fort save might be eminently makeable.

-Cross


At level 12, 'low' average damage is 41 according to the CR chart. Your fortitude save at that point with a +5 cloak for nonsupernatural effects is a ~+21, (The math for this was in the guide)

The fort save after DR would still require a 14+ for low average damage for an equal CR creature. 'High' average damage is still a 20.

I can't recommend it because unfortunately the math doesn't pan out unless you're fighting a big swarm of lesser things.


Trinam wrote:

At level 12, 'low' average damage is 41 according to the CR chart. Your fortitude save at that point with a +5 cloak for nonsupernatural effects is a ~+21, (The math for this was in the guide)

The fort save after DR would still require a 14+ for low average damage for an equal CR creature. 'High' average damage is still a 20.

I can't recommend it because unfortunately the math doesn't pan out unless you're fighting a big swarm of lesser things.

I cede. Let's pretend this never happened and blame STR ranger for coming up with this idea. <_< >_>

-Cross


Crosswind wrote:

I cede. Let's pretend this never happened and blame STR ranger for coming up with this idea. <_< >_>

-Cross

What are you talking about? Clearly this is the fault of casty-based propaganda designed to keep the Barbarian down by making them not as awesome as AM.


Wow that Courageous Weapon of UE is the new Furious! So good!

Rearding Lunge...I think of it with the use of Reach and Armour Spikes as a way for the barb to establish a favourable envelope of attacks. It should in many cases be able to stop foes from full attacking! Do a 'Gedankenexperiment' to see how this can play out under various circumstances.

However, with Courageous weapon we will have to think about possibly the Orc Bloodline as a basis for Barb builds, and Lunge may become moot.

So Barbs with; Focused Study, Heart of Fields
Optimistic Gambler, (World Traveller/Missing Sibling]

and then Feats: Cmbt Reflexes,Power Attack, Dazing Assault,Toughness[Sunder?], Raging Vitality, Raging Brutality and the rest in Orc Bloodline [Focused Study for Survival and a Quicken SLA for Touch of Rage +TOR,the strength buff and Giant form]

Rage Powers>>>10 easy to pick see the guide! lol

This will give a combat monster, who will be simple to play with nuances provided by the Rage Powers. Strength with start of 18 will hit 52? and Con at 14 could get to 40? It combined with Touch of Rage, Power Attack and Raging Brutality seems to be pretty ridiculous when calculating total to hit and damage bonuses.

With Focused Study pick up Diplomacy as party Face!at level 8. AWESOMENESS personified. Level 16 another Skill Focus (probably a roleplaying choice?)

{{An aside: When rage is dropped Optimistic Gambler would prolong Str/Con effects for d4 rounds. Would Superstition be prolonged as well? I dont think it would be as you are not technically raging then..(but it is a morale effect} This allows potentially the d4 rounds of Rage hitpoints and normal curing to save a near death Barb?}}


Nordlander wrote:

{{An aside: When rage is dropped Optimistic Gambler would prolong Str/Con effects for d4 rounds. Would Superstition be prolonged as well? I dont think it would be as you are not technically raging then..(but it is a morale effect} This allows potentially the d4 rounds of Rage hitpoints and normal curing to save a near death Barb?}}

It works on Morale Bonuses. That means that you'd get to keep the bonus from Superstition to your saves... But you wouldn't be raging anymore, meaning the clause from Superstition, 'While raging, the barbarian cannot be a willing target of any spell and must make saving throws to resist all spells, even those cast by allies.' would not apply.

You lose a lot of other rage-based defenses, but that is a very nice combo.


I did not see that. So yes Superstition then becomes an optional application when using the Optimistic Gambler trait. Very nice.

Note Courageous works better for Touch of Rage [plus three to hit and damage and I suppose the save thingy) than for Rage where to me it would give plus three to Str and Con at max and so move the final Rage boost to +11 str/con from +8 str/con with a plus 6 or 7 weapon. But still a nice add and lets one fiddle with levelling advances and wishes/tomes. My calulations above applied the Courageous enhancement this way.


Courages is a game changer. Worth a lot more than Furious


It definitely seems a lot like I'm gonna have to get a copy of Ultimate Equipment. :D


Personally, I'd wait till level 11 and grab Greater Beast Totem with a feat, that way it immediately gives 2 additional attacks.


When using opportunistic gambler wouldn't you still be fatigued by coming out of rage even if the morale bonuses persisted? That makes it pretty lame unless you're going to get early rage cycling from something like the lame oracle. And then you're a casty.


Another excellent point... fatigue gives a -2 to STR/DEX, while the rage gives +4 STR/CON.... this ends up coming to a +2/-2/+4 overall, which is pretty nice, though you can't run or charge.

I assume they'd just be getting the belt that lets you negate fatigue for 1d6 nonlethal.


If you want to go the Stalwart route,a one level dip into the unbreakable fighter archetype gives you Endurance and Die Hard.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm having issues with viewing the Doc. I'm only getting up to the Races section and Google docs is reporting a problem with the document.

What's it all about?


I'm helping someone build an invulnerable rager/CaGM dwarf barbarian, using the 3.5 point buy rules (28 points), any advice on how to best spend the points?

Right now I've got him at (after Racial mods) 16 STR, 14 DEX, 18 CON, 8 INT, 12 WIS, 6 CHA.

Also, are there any specific dwarf feats/alternate racial traits that I should be looking in to?


A question:

You have Die Hard and Endurance in there, but I don't see Stalwart or Improved Stalwart. Were you taking those feats, or are Endurance and Die Hard holdovers from the Crane Style version of this character?

Crosswind wrote:

Okay. So the whole point here is:

------
The guarded life chain lets you make 2x your barbarian level nonlethal
Invulnerable Rager DR applies 2x.
------
REQUIRED feats/Powers here are:
Primary Powers: Guarded Life, Greater Guarded Life, Flesh Wound,
Secondary Powers: Superstition, Witch Hunter, Spell Sunder, Come And Get Me
Feats: Endurance, Diehard, Ferocious Tenacity, Power Attack

Crane Style, Stalwart and Improved Stalwart allow you to get +6 DR at the cost of 3 feats and a -2 penalty to AB, and (by RAW) this DR is not doubled against nonlethal damage.

Alternatively, taking Increased Damage Reduction 3 times gives you 3 DR which _is_ doubled (6 DR!) against nonlethal damage. So, that's better.
-----
So, I'd go with:

1-Rager1:Power Attack, Endurance
2-Rager2: Guarded Life
3-Rager3: Diehard
4-Rager4: Superstition
5-Rager5: Destroyer's Blessing
6-Rager6:Gtr Guarded Life
7-Rager7: Ferocious Tenacity
8-Rager8: Increased DR
9-Rager9: ERP: Increased DR
10-Rager10:Flesh Wound
11-Rager11: Dazing Assault
12-Rager12: Come and Get Me
13-Rager13 ERP: Increased DR
14-Rager14:Witch Hunter
15-Rager15:Improved Sunder
16-Rager16:Spell Sunder
17-Rager17:ERP: Raging Vitality
18-Rager18:Strength Surge
19-Rager19: ERP: Ghost Rager
20-Rager20: Raging Brutality

Advantages:
I get dazing assault along with Come and Get Me. It's really not worth doing CaGM without some way of negating those attacks entirely.
I get Destroyer's Blessing WAY earlier, which lets me stock up on rage rounds for Flesh Wound.
I don't do dips in other classes so half the time my DR/- is 1 higher.
I pick up 3 Increased DRs. By level 14, I'm rocking 10 DR/-, which is 20 DR/- against nonlethal.
You'll notice that, in general, I cluster my feats better. Witch Hunter, Improved Sunder, Spell Sunder all come together. By themselves, they're sort of useless, so there's no reason to spread them out.

Spell Sunder is still _late_. But the deathless idea sort of requires a lot of early investment, because you really...


yeti1069 wrote:

A question:

You have Die Hard and Endurance in there, but I don't see Stalwart or Improved Stalwart. Were you taking those feats, or are Endurance and Die Hard holdovers from the Crane Style version of this character?

Crosswind wrote:

Okay. So the whole point here is:

------
The guarded life chain lets you make 2x your barbarian level nonlethal
Invulnerable Rager DR applies 2x.
------
REQUIRED feats/Powers here are:
Primary Powers: Guarded Life, Greater Guarded Life, Flesh Wound,
Secondary Powers: Superstition, Witch Hunter, Spell Sunder, Come And Get Me
Feats: Endurance, Diehard, Ferocious Tenacity, Power Attack

Crane Style, Stalwart and Improved Stalwart allow you to get +6 DR at the cost of 3 feats and a -2 penalty to AB, and (by RAW) this DR is not doubled against nonlethal damage.

Alternatively, taking Increased Damage Reduction 3 times gives you 3 DR which _is_ doubled (6 DR!) against nonlethal damage. So, that's better.
-----
So, I'd go with:

1-Rager1:Power Attack, Endurance
2-Rager2: Guarded Life
3-Rager3: Diehard
4-Rager4: Superstition
5-Rager5: Destroyer's Blessing
6-Rager6:Gtr Guarded Life
7-Rager7: Ferocious Tenacity
8-Rager8: Increased DR
9-Rager9: ERP: Increased DR
10-Rager10:Flesh Wound
11-Rager11: Dazing Assault
12-Rager12: Come and Get Me
13-Rager13 ERP: Increased DR
14-Rager14:Witch Hunter
15-Rager15:Improved Sunder
16-Rager16:Spell Sunder
17-Rager17:ERP: Raging Vitality
18-Rager18:Strength Surge
19-Rager19: ERP: Ghost Rager
20-Rager20: Raging Brutality

Advantages:
I get dazing assault along with Come and Get Me. It's really not worth doing CaGM without some way of negating those attacks entirely.
I get Destroyer's Blessing WAY earlier, which lets me stock up on rage rounds for Flesh Wound.
I don't do dips in other classes so half the time my DR/- is 1 higher.
I pick up 3 Increased DRs. By level 14, I'm rocking 10 DR/-, which is 20 DR/- against nonlethal.
You'll notice that, in general, I cluster my feats better. Witch Hunter,

...

As an orc, endurance is virtually free (Shaman's apprentice lets you trade a +2 skill bonus for it). Die Hard is required - we're going to be at -HP a lot, and we'd better not actually die when we're down there.

We're too stupid to get combat expertise. So Stalwart/Improved Stalwart, with acrobatics, would net us like 6 DR total. Which seems iffy, given that we already don't have a ton of feats hanging around.

-Cross


stuart haffenden wrote:

I'm having issues with viewing the Doc. I'm only getting up to the Races section and Google docs is reporting a problem with the document.

What's it all about?

I do not know. Either it's a temporary issue with gdocs, or else a problem with the platform that you're trying to open the document on. Try it again real quick, as I just confirmed that it's working fine on the gdocs end. If it's not working now, what're you using to pull it up?

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