| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
My group only plays twice a month, for 3-4 hours a session (we're all adults with jobs and families), so we're just hitting Book 5 after 3 years of play. I've also got the challenge of having no Arcane casters in the party, and no characters particularly interested in Thassilonian history, so it's been a challenge getting the characters invested in the Karzoug's machinations.
What my characters/players are invested in is Sandpoint; The characters have been devoting a large chunk of their wealth to the "economic/political minigame" of becoming members of the Mercantile League - establishing the party as an official Adventurers' Guild, buying property, rebuilding the destroyed mills, and repairing the town following the Giant attack in book 4.
Given the span we've been playing, I occasionally run "side adventures" for lower-level characters to give the players a chance to try out other classes/builds. These characters are young recruits to the Sandpoint Adventurers' Guild, and deal with sidequests that don't seem to be connected to ongoing metaplot of Karzoug's return. These are the characters that explored Chopper's Isle and the Vault of Greed (both from Wayfinder #7).
I ran the Stone Giant attack on Sandpoint at the start of Book 4 as a 13th Warrior homage; The players had forewarning of the attack (as revealed at the end of Book 3), so they had an opportunity to prepare the town's defenses. I gave them access to the town gaurd, the Sandpoint Militia, as well as some noteable NPCs and all their PCs. I printed out Chinchbug's map of Sandpoint and overlaid a centimeter-scale grid, where each square equaled 30'. Given the scale of the map, the players knew they'd have to break their forces into groups and stage them at logical defensive points within the town in order to prevent the most mayhem. Then I played the whole raid out as one big combat, using a spreadsheet to keep track when (and where on the map) each event began.
When the dust settled, the players got to choose which of their PCs they wanted to play next; Their high-level PCs took on the mission to track the fleeing giants to Jorgenfist, while their lower-level PCs traveled to Magnimmar: During the attack on Sandpoint a sorceress had stolen a flaming sword from the Temple of Abadar and escaped riding a red dragon, and the temple wanted it returned. Both segments of the game took place at the same time in-campaign, with the players choosing to follow the lead in Magnimmar first and then play out the Journey to Jorgenfist.
I ran the lower-level PCs through the Seven Swords of Sin, revealing at the end that Tirana had been collecting runeswords for Mokmurian on the behalf of Karzoug (the red dragon she rides being one of Longtooth's clutch-mates). The journey to/from Kaer Maga having taken a month each way, these PCs return to Sandpoint and on their first night back home they're awakened by an earthqueake and sounds of screaming townsfolk! Cue cliffhanger!
We then switched to the higher-level PCs, who I ran through King of the Storval Stair followed by the assault on Jorgenfist. After they'd defeated Mokmurian, scattered his army, and secured the Thassilonian Library, we switched back to the lower-level PCs. Rather than play out the Scribbler's Lair as written, with the PCs being asked by Mayor Deverin to explore the sinkholes after-the-fact, I'm having them run their lower-level characters through the earthquake as it happens. To add a little spice, I'm having a variety of mutant Sinspawn boil out of each sinkhole as it appears:
In my new version of this portion of the campaign, the Scribbler has chained the demon servant that Lamashtu gave him over a Runewell similar to the one found in Erylium's lair. He's also exposed the demon to the Waters of Lamashtu (also from Catacombs of Wrath) turning it into a creature I'm calling the Womb of Sin: Constantly oozing wounds on the bound demon drip into the Runewell, full of souls of the casualties of the Stone Giant raid. Twisted Sinspawn abominations (Sinspawn with Skirmisher, Controller, Artillery, and Brute templates pasted on) emerge, growing in number until released by the earthquake.
The plan is to have the PCs fight their way across Sandpoint, dealing with Sinspawn incursions until they can rally the militia and plan a counter-attack. From there they'll storm the revised Scribbler's lair, which culminates in a boss fight where the Womb of Sin acts as a Monster Generator and the Scribbler bounces around slinging spells. It should hopefully be a bit more tactically interesting that the encounter-as-written.
My group only plays twice a month, for 3-4 hours a session (we're all adults with jobs and families), so we're just hitting Book 5 after 3 years of play. I've also got the challenge of having no Arcane casters in the party, and no characters particularly interested in Thassilonian history, so it's been a challenge getting the characters invested in the Karzoug's machinations.
What my characters/players are invested in is Sandpoint; The characters have been devoting a large chunk of their wealth to the "economic/political minigame" of becoming members of the Mercantile League - establishing the party as an official Adventurers' Guild, buying property, rebuilding the destroyed mills, and repairing the town following the Giant attack in book 4.
Given the span we've been playing, I occasionally run "side adventures" for lower-level characters to give the players a chance to try out other classes/builds. These characters are young recruits to the Sandpoint Adventurers' Guild, and deal with sidequests that don't seem to be connected to ongoing metaplot of Karzoug's return. These are the characters that explored Chopper's Isle and the Vault of Greed (both from Wayfinder #7).
I ran the Stone Giant attack on Sandpoint at the start of Book 4 as a 13th Warrior homage; The players had forewarning of the attack (as revealed at the end of Book 3), so they had an opportunity to prepare the town's defenses. I gave them access to the town gaurd, the Sandpoint Militia, as well as some noteable NPCs and all their PCs. I printed out Chinchbug's map of Sandpoint and overlaid a centimeter-scale grid, where each square equaled 30'. Given the scale of the map, the players knew they'd have to break their forces into groups and stage them at logical defensive points within the town in order to prevent the most mayhem. Then I played the whole raid out as one big combat, using a spreadsheet to keep track when (and where on the map) each event began.
When the dust settled, the players got to choose...
Holy crap dude. This sounds epic. Makes my group's run through the AP look really boring. In fact, it makes if feel really boring. Sigh.
I sometimes think of how I would run it, using many of the great ideas on these boards...but, I have played in the same group for 30 years now, and we just finished it....
Holy crap dude. This sounds epic. Makes my group's run through the AP look really boring. In fact, it makes if feel really boring. Sigh.
I sometimes think of how I would run it, using many of the great ideas on these boards...but, I have played in the same group for 30 years now, and we just finished it....
Given that we only play twice a month gives me plenty of time to prep, but even then my best ideas are mostly borrowed from other users' contributions here on the boards. I've been playing various forms of D&D for 25 years, and I still see stuff here that makes me think "Wow, I'll never be as creative as this!"
Sometimes I fantasize about putting together a "DM's guide to RotRL" that combines "lessons learned" with cheat sheets and handouts, but I have a hard enough time working on the stuff my players will encounter next to go back back and clean up all the content they've already seen. Maybe when I finish the current campaign...
Holy crap dude. This sounds epic. Makes my group's run through the AP look really boring. In fact, it makes if feel really boring. Sigh.
I sometimes think of how I would run it, using many of the great ideas on these boards...but, I have played in the same group for 30 years now, and we just finished it....
Given that we only play twice a month gives me plenty of time to prep, but even then my best ideas are mostly borrowed from other users' contributions here on the boards. I've been playing various forms of D&D for 25 years, and I still see stuff here that makes me think "Wow, I'll never be as creative as this!"
Sometimes I fantasize about putting together a "DM's guide to RotRL" that combines "lessons learned" with cheat sheets and handouts, but I have a hard enough time working on the stuff my players will encounter next to go back back and clean up all the content they've already seen. Maybe when I finish the current campaign...
Indeed. I am supposed to run CoCT in the future, and I have found a gold mine of great alterations here on the boards. As we were still in the RoRL, I hadn't looked at much on that until recently. Our GM for that AP was very good at getting us through with a decent challenge, and that took all he was able to give. I am a little bummed though at the unexplored depths of possibility in that AP. He told us many times of the shortcomings, but I see here on the boards so many alternatives. I would love to thicken the background, and mire my players in the story.
I think one symptom of a straight, as it comes, run-through is the seeming disconnectedness of the various layers of Karzoug's minions. Some of that is natural and right, but you have to go out of your way to show the players the rhyme and reason to much of it. Saving it for a big exposition at the end, or indeed after the end, is not very satisfying. We spent four YEARS playing that AP. Realizing the connections after the fact, and largely out of character is no fun...
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I think one symptom of a straight, as it comes, run-through is the seeming disconnectedness of the various layers of Karzoug's minions. Some of that is natural and right, but you have to go out of your way to show the players the rhyme and reason to much of it. Saving it for a big exposition at the end, or indeed after the end, is not very satisfying. We spent four YEARS playing that AP. Realizing the connections after the fact, and largely out...
I feel the same way, or even worse: I have a bad habit of only prepping the next "book" once the previous book is complete, so sometimes I don't even realize the connections as we're playing through.
One of the things I'd put in my hypothetical "DMs Guide to RotRL" is a Foreshadowing Guide. For each book it'd clearly indicate opportunities to foreshadow elements that will pay off in later books.
Other wishlist items;
- A guide to "What the PCs Should Know About Thassilon, and When They Should Know It."
- A brief update for each book about how Sandpoint has changed since the last chapter, and how the PCs reputations evolve and spread.
- An Org Chart for Karzoug's forces, detailing the roles and connections between the Lamias, the Giants, the Goblins, the Skinsaw Cult, and various human forces
- A Dramatis Personae section detailing all the NPCs, including individual motivations/goals
- Notes on the themes of each chapter: When the chapters were first published serially, there were great notes from each author about their inspirations and intentions. Knowing that the Kreeg Homestead is a Texas Chainsaw Massacre homage, or that all of Book 4 is an escalating series of races-against-the-clock is something that could be spelled out for GMs.
- Restored cut content. I'd love to see the Lamia's riverboat gambling den from book three, and the notes on dealing with the individual Runeforge factions through roleplaying rather than combat.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I think one symptom of a straight, as it comes, run-through is the seeming disconnectedness of the various layers of Karzoug's minions. Some of that is natural and right, but you have to go out of your way to show the players the rhyme and reason to much of it. Saving it for a big exposition at the end, or indeed after the end, is not very satisfying. We spent four YEARS playing that AP. Realizing the connections after the fact, and largely out...I feel the same way, or even worse: I have a bad habit of only prepping the next "book" once the previous book is complete, so sometimes I don't even realize the connections as we're playing through.
One of the things I'd put in my hypothetical "DMs Guide to RotRL" is a Foreshadowing Guide. For each book it'd clearly indicate opportunities to foreshadow elements that will pay off in later books.
Other wishlist items;
- A guide to "What the PCs Should Know About Thassilon, and When They Should Know It."
- A brief update for each book about how Sandpoint has changed since the last chapter, and how the PCs reputations evolve and spread.
- An Org Chart for Karzoug's forces, detailing the roles and connections between the Lamias, the Giants, the Goblins, the Skinsaw Cult, and various human forces
- A Dramatis Personae section detailing all the NPCs, including individual motivations/goals
- Notes on the themes of each chapter: When the chapters were first published serially, there were great notes from each author about their inspirations and intentions. Knowing that the Kreeg Homestead is a Texas Chainsaw Massacre homage, or that all of Book 4 is an escalating series of races-against-the-clock is something that could be spelled out for GMs.
- Restored cut content. I'd love to see the Lamia's riverboat gambling den from book three, and the notes on dealing with the individual Runeforge factions through roleplaying rather than combat.
That sounds fantastic, and should be included in APs from the start. Or at least released as addendum expanded content online.
Kudos to you if you create such a guide. I wish I had such for CoCT. I am cobbling together what I can from these boards and the old Guide to Korvosa.
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
I don't see much point in running Monster in the Closet as a combat encounter with 4 PCs against a lone goblin with a busted weapon, so instead:
Titus Scarnetti will purchase an appropriate masterwork weapon or armor or similar priced item for each PC and invite them to a celebration he's hosting at which he's planning on publicly gifting the heroes with these items at the end of the evening.
The kid (away from books and can't remember the names right now) will approach the PCs as his family is about to leave early (the mom and/or baby is not feeling well) begging them for help with the monster in his closet. The father will admonish the kid and tell the PCs that he's checked the closet himself and nothing is there. The PCs will be warned by another NPC that Titus is likely to take their cutting out of the party early as a slight and the father and mother will be almost impossible to talk into staying.
If the PCs stay they'll be gifted with their pricey items, but when the leave on their way back to the Rusty Dragon they'll be confronted with the aftermath of the Goblin killing the dog and the father before a pair of town guards showed up and managed to put the creature down. Cut to the wife's sister showing up the next day to shame them.
If the PCs go with the family to check, they'll incur Scarnetti's ire and not be gifted with the expensive items. When they arrive the goblin, who isn't yet quite to the point of being more angry than scared of the dog, will see them as his chance to escape the dog and surrenders without a fight.
|
Last weekend was our final session for the year, as one of our players will be traveling with his family until after New Year's. I interrupted the party's trek to the Storval Stairs in Book 4 by having them meet up with a caravan of Varisians (they're on the random encounter table, so it isn't too much of a change!), and inserted PCs into The Ritual of Stardust. I happened to read the blog post when it was published and downloaded the PFS chronicle sheet for it, even though at that point we had never played in Society. I guess I was saving it for this - my players had a blast, and I gave them each a choice of minor boons lifted from the PFS chronicle sheet.
I ended up changing the process of obtaining the actual keys to the Runeforge.
Second, the statues themselves are big enough that the keys are not immediately obvious to ethereal beings. An ethereal PC would basically have to stick his hand into the statue at the level of the mouth, and then blindly grope around to find the key. (The assumption being that something large and solid enough on the Material plane is not transparent on the Ethereal; an ethereal being can move through Material walls, but not see through them.)
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Some changes I made to modules 1 & 2, early on.
- I blew up the Sandpoint garrison as part of the initial goblin raid. I did this so that there was a perfectly sensible reason why the PCs essentially do town defense on their own, and why Hemlock comes to the them for aid (and also, why Hemlock needs to head out for reinforcements).
- I gave the torch-bearing goblins (book 1, part 1) the goblin-only "Burn Burn Burn" feat.
- Looking over Ven Vinder's stat block, I couldn't help but wonder, "Why is a shopkeeper better at attacking than appraising?" Murderous goblins are a cakewalk but a middle-aged merchant is a nightmare. OK. I swapped out Power Attack for Skill Focus (appraise), and swapped out Toughness for Skill Focus (sense motive). Now he can at least do his job a little bit. Also, removing Power Attack actually helps Ven a little bit, because Power Attack was already figured into his stat block (it usually isn't) and by removing it his attack roll went from +4 to +5. Sure he only does 1d3+2 damage now (it was 1d3+4) but that change is going to be barely perceived by the players.
- I used Paizo's "social combat" rules (the cards you can buy, like chase cards) for the argument with Lonjiku on page 22 of the Anniversary Edition.
- In "Against the Goblins" on page 31, the text asserts that "Goblins are masters of improvisational fighting," yet nothing in the stat block supports this. So I gave some goblins in that fight the Catch Off Guard feat (melee), and some the Throw Anything feat (ranged). Now they actually can pick up random items and try to use them.
- I noted that they give Nualia the penalty for using Fury of the Abyss (her AC is lowered) but they do not give her the benefit of it. Her attack line should read: +1 bastard sword +12 (1d10+8 / 19-20) and claw +5 (1d6+5). She gets that for 6 rounds, if she uses a swift action at the start of each round.
- Book 2, part 2. The text notes that it was "unusually easy" for Caizarlu to convince Erin Habe that he was "just" a retired businessman. The problem is Habe has a +9 in Bluff & Sense Motive, while Caizarlu only has a +6. Of course the text is sorta hinting that maybe Caizarlu "rolled well" against Habe. However, I had a solution that involved better verisimilitude. Habe's stat block on page 80-81 is supposed to be a stat block for a reknown doctor. However, this "easy to fool" doctor has Skill Focus in Sense Motive instead of Heal. I just changed that. Skill Focus now in Heal, and now the numbers make sense (this will have almost no playable effect; it simply makes the character stats match what the module text suggests).
- There are so many ghouls in part 2 onward that I desperately needed to change up some of the later ghouls, somehow. I found a ghoul-only feat called Warren Digger. It confers a burrow speed. Swapping out Weapon Finesse for Warren Digger means that their attack bonus lowers by one. However, they can now emerge from the ground in a flank, gaining a +2 to attacks. Maybe it's a little less boring with the alteration?
- I also made these other 2 changes.
A smaller version of my post in another thread...
I have a habit of creating complex outlines of any AP I plan/want to run. Prepping RotR nearly stopped me cold on Runelords after the Arkhryst part. I love dungeons, but these particular mini-dungeons weren't too inspiring (YMMV) and felt too video-gamey needing to go through a portal each time. As others have stated, some groups would have gotten what they needed for Dominant weapons and skipped the rest, etc. A bigger normal dungeon would have probably been better for my particular group if we had played this.
That said, I replaced everything after Arkhryst with chapter 5 of the Shattered Star AP "Into the Nightmare Rift" up until the Leng portal which I left sealed.
My Sins of the Saviors/Into the Nightmare Rift mashup...
1) Lamashtu’s Shrine- The catacombs and/or Scribbler will point to the statues/map room at Rimeskull as the place where the PCs can discover the location of Runeforge. Rimeskull is basically the map room from Raiders of the Lost Ark.
2) Rimeskull- Arkrhyst as a Dragon, makes for a perfect servant of Greed. He serves as the guardian of Rimeskull. The statues there (when pointed in the proper directions) reveal the location of Runeforge, instead of the separate dungeons of sin. At the GMs discretion, Arkrhyst can flee to Xin-Shalast if things go poorly for him.
3) Guiltspur- This is the new location of Runeforge. The two items (of Enchantment and Illusion from Karzoug’s opposition schools) needed to forge Dominant weapons will be located here. The gate to Leng will be non-functional, and the Whisperstone could be replaced by the Runeforge.
4) Runeforge is now just a huge library chamber (see area D just seal off the tunnels leading to the separate wings). The room is guarded by Mesmalatu, the awakened demilich cleric of Nyarlathotep (E9). The walls are filled with books and tomes of various nature but most deal with magic. Mesmalatu is one of the only surviving disciples in Runeforge, the other servants of the Runelords are long dead, either to Karzoug's plan or having destroyed themselves over thousands of years after their masters left to go into their hibernation. Being that the portals to each dungeon are gone, all the information the party needs pertaining to Karzoug, his method of returning, the process of making Runeforged weapons, etc can be researched here, or by somehow getting Mesmalatu to talk.
5) Delvahine the Succubus (H7) is a surviving disciple somewhere in Guiltspur (she was another spy for Karzoug), her locks of hair can be the lust components needed for Runeforging. Add a corridor to The Silent Halls (Level C) leading to Delvahine’s lair (use the map from Sins of the Saviors, area H). If not, hair from Xaivanshee Rasivrein could work just as well.
6) Dust from Mesmalatu can be used for the Pride components in Runeforging. Mesmalatu considers herself Lord of Guiltspur and does not want Karzoug to return.
I've been doing minor changes for the most part, my big changes are ones that involve events far later into the game. For now, however;
I made sure to reduce the number of able bodied guards in the town after the goblin attack, having only six or so men and woman that weren't injured. Also made sure to make them relatively distinct so they don't become faceless NPC's for the party to avoid or what have you. This gave higher emphasis on Hemlock justifying the trip to Magnimar, as written correspondence would take far longer and his presence wouldn't change the fact that the town was woefully understaffed.
I hade the groundskeeper for the cemetery look for the party instead of Belor Hemlock, as he would be more likely to find the disturbance of the gravesite. I also had the party roll perception when passing some of the houses to find the dog barking at the goblin before it went mad and murdered the father in the house.
The glassworks had the most changes. Lonjiku was encased from the waist down, and while he would most likely pass on to the next world, he nevertheless wouldn't die so that he can pass information onto the party if they don't get it in time from other sources. Since the party didn't chase after the goblins right away, Tsuto strategized and set-up an ambush downstairs. This was to also demonstrate some combat actions for the players to be aware of before I utilized it later in the campaign, and also for them to think about different strategies. Tsuto was not captured, but instead escaped. Ameiko was not taken with him as most of the goblins were dead and he couldn't carry her and retreat.
Most everything else is pretty minor, and all centered around making the game enjoyable.
One thing I changed was the level of the party. It may only be tangentially relevant, though. My players were largely new to rpgs, so they began the AP at 2nd level, and they are on track to finish it at 19th level. They've become better players, but they don't focus on optimal fighting- either in tactics or in character optimization- so it only occasionally has presented unforeseen problems, like the Occluding Field being less of a barrier than I anticipated. Instead of being a full-stop barrier to be dealt with, it's taken a step down to a very-worrisome ongoing effect that they deal with. Other than that, we've still had three deaths and two narrowly-averted TPKs, so they haven't cake-walked through the AP.
One thing I changed was the level of the party. It may only be tangentially relevant, though. My players were largely new to rpgs, so they began the AP at 2nd level,
This kind of happened by default for my new group. Three were returning to tabletop, and the fourth is new. I ran a one shot Crypt of the Everflame as a prelude to RotR with minor changes to keep them from leveling more than once, along with lore adjustments to fit RotR and one of the PC's background (he's playing a forcibly retired Korvosan guard).
I'm still deciding if I'm heading to RotR or KM at this point. We meet once or twice a year for a "guys weekend" (marathon 3-5 day session each).
Wives/GFs gave us clearance :), we all met playing WoW 14+ years ago. We've met in RL a bazillion times and range the gamut from Texas to Canada.