Cohort builder, and crafter.


Advice


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Hi all this is a remake of a post yesterday, with more specifics. I am a level 7 wizard and will be taking leadership. I have craft wondrous items, so my cohort will not need that, though i may consider it.

I would like help to build my cohort as i am still very new, i would like him or her to be the party crafter, in all things great and wonderfull.

This doesnt have to be exhausting, just some advice as to how i could best utilize building another charachter. all help no matter how diminutuve is greatly appreciated.

You dont need to know the fabric of time and space to be able to give me some advice, im sure that gnome is a good place for me to start,

As for what i would like my cohort to do in battle, is protect me mainly as i have awful hit points, and mybe cast some buffs on the party, im pretty sure with co-operative crafting and crafters fortune i will be able to get over any spellcraft check so not having the pre-req spells may not be so much of an issue.

Thanks again


This is something you'll need to get your GM involved in, unless you have been given free reign to build what every you want. Realistically, a wizard should take a bodyguard type, second line fighter. Just in case something gets near you. After all, your cohort is loyal to you first, the party second.


Have you checked with your DM what will be allowed? Leadership is always group-dependent. For example we don't allow craft feats and only allow a reduced PBS.

That aside you might want to consider a bard, possibly a magician, archivist or arcane duelist. Take arcane strike, skill focus spellcraft, a reach weapon and combat reflexes and maybe bodyguard or stand still. This way your cohort can protect you quite well. The rest you could invest in crafting, maybe power attack. As a spell I recommend at least to take saving finale.

You could even consider a 3 level dip into phalanx fighter for optimal protection, but then you may want to get the mafical knack trait to improve caster level and only use a light shield to still allow casting, wielding a longspear, glaive or such in the other hand.


A few questions:

Are you going to be providing most of the spells?
Do they absolutely need to be a caster?

& finally @Sangalor What in Shelyn's name is PBS?


I have agreed with my dm that i can make a crafter specifically. we also agreed that he will not be direct combat based, hence the buffing. as for creating him, i have been given complete reign to do so following the npc creation. Please be assured i dont want to slow combat down nor do i want to take anything away from the party in and around combat and roleplaying.

we are playing skull and shackles and none of our group are taking exotic or seige commander or any such thing, so i was thinking about combining these into the char....

make him the ships siege commander>crafter>buffer>some sort of alchemy to discover cannons???? though that part isnt agreed yet.


Then I would say a Universalist Wizard will probably be OK. Or a Straight Bard. Say he is a coward and refuses to make himself a major target.


Azaelas Fayth wrote:

A few questions:

Are you going to be providing most of the spells?
Do they absolutely need to be a caster?

& finally @Sangalor What in Shelyn's name is PBS?

Point buy score. We use 20 for characters, 15 for cohorts.


Sangalor wrote:
Azaelas Fayth wrote:

A few questions:

Are you going to be providing most of the spells?
Do they absolutely need to be a caster?

& finally @Sangalor What in Shelyn's name is PBS?

Point buy score. We use 20 for characters, 15 for cohorts.

... wow I kind of feel stupid now...

Personally for Cohorts I have them apply the NPC Stat array.


yeah universalist sounds very good, i think i will take that, not read much on a bard so ill check that out first. what about race, would a gnome be my best option? i was thinking about getting him a ring of invisibility and pretty much just leave him invisible all the time, and buff whilst in combat.

Az yes he does need to be a caster really as he will be the crafter out of the party


i could do with some advice as to how i can speed up the time taken to craft stuff or reduce the amount of GP it costs to make stuff, anyone got any ideas?


Does he really need to be a caster to be the crafter. Isn't there a feat you can take which allows the non caster classes to use a relevant craft skill in place of spellcraft to make items? You can then just add 5 to the DC if the spell isn;t available.

However, perhaps an Alchemist might be in order? Make sure you buy the right powers so that extracts can be given to other people and that takes care of the buffing, plus you can have them use their mutagen to bulk them up physically to protect you.


Master Craftsman is the feat.

Though it only applies to a single skill. Not sure if you can take it multiple times. Though your GM might allow you to apply it to all Craft Skills based on their individual ranks and use the Feat to apply to all of them.


I would consider an elven ancient loremaster (divine and limited arcane spells) lore oracle (can get +20 to his skill rolls - should never fail a craft check). A dwarven forgemaster cleric would also work really well (crafting time reduced 50%). Of course, you really can't go wrong with a universalist wizard. Have the cohort take the traits hedge magician and / or eldritch smith for a reduction in crafting costs and the cooperative crafting feat to reduce crafting time by 50%.

Scarab Sages

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Okay, so if you are lvl 7... the most your cohort can be is lvl 5.
With you having Craft Wondrous Items then at this level your crafting options are:

Scribe Spell - 1st lvl
Brew Potion - 1st lvl
Craft Wand - 5th lvl
Craft Arms & Armor - 5th lvl

For efficiency you will probably want an Int based caster (skill points + Spellcraft is Int based).

If you are also looking to have alchemical items (including poisons) crafted, then Alchemist is the way to go (with Master Alchemist feat).

If you want both Craft Wand & Craft Arms & Armor at level 5 then you will need to go wizard.

A lot depends on what items you want crafted.
Wand of Cure Light Wounds? You will want a Witch, Alchemist, Druid, Bard, or any other caster that has Cure Light Wounds on its list.
Wand of Fireballs? You will want a Witch or a Wizard or anyone that has access to fireball (Theologian with the Fire Domain)

Additionally, you will want to pick up the feat Additional Traits (unless your GM lets NPCs have traits) to get Hedge Magician (I belive that is what it is called) for a 5% discount on making magic items (every bit saved is more stuff down the road).


djtezlee wrote:

yeah universalist sounds very good, i think i will take that, not read much on a bard so ill check that out first. what about race, would a gnome be my best option? i was thinking about getting him a ring of invisibility and pretty much just leave him invisible all the time, and buff whilst in combat.

Az yes he does need to be a caster really as he will be the crafter out of the party

I really recommend to look at the bard. It will complement and assist you on more occasions here I think. Some links for that:

bard
magician archetype

I recommend the magician archetype since it gets scaling bonuses on spellcraft (great for crafting, especially if you do not know the spell), for protection of you, for the great boosts that it can provide to your casting (dweomercraft performance) and the level 10 ability - getting to set its own DC on wands is a fantastic ability.
Also, no class buffs as well as a bard, plus it gets access to invisibility, so that is pretty much what I understand you want. Also, dimension door-ing you out of a tight spot might not be a bad thing to do, plus using saving finale to grant you a reroll on your saves...

Regarding the process of crafting, you can increase the spellcraft DC by 5 to create an item in half the time; that's one of the reasons why I also recommend taking skill focus (spellcraft). And if you take the hedge magician trait, you can reduce the cost to create them by 5%.

You might want to stay clear of potions: You cannot just increase the DC by 5 if you do not know the spell yourself, it's a special rule and thus potentially limitating.

Theoretically, if you want the ultimate crafter with default access to pretty much everything, you could make a multiclass cleric/wizard (or empyreal sorcerer)/mystic theurge. Buy scrolls if necessary and you can also create potions without problems. But it's a suboptimal choice compared to a bard IMO.

Race-wise, pretty much anything is OK. You just might want to stay away from races that give a penalty on your primary casting stat, but even that's not strictly necessary.

Have fun :-)


W. John Hare wrote:


Scribe Spell - 1st lvl
Brew Potion - 1st lvl
Craft Wand - 5th lvl
Craft Arms & Armor - 5th lvl

You cannot take brew potion at 1st level, you need to be 3rd. Besides that, your list is fine (though you probably mean scribe scroll instead of scribe spell).

Scarab Sages

Sangalor wrote:
W. John Hare wrote:


Scribe Spell - 1st lvl
Brew Potion - 1st lvl
Craft Wand - 5th lvl
Craft Arms & Armor - 5th lvl

You cannot take brew potion at 1st level, you need to be 3rd. Besides that, your list is fine (though you probably mean scribe scroll instead of scribe spell).

Yes, you are correct, I had the Alchemist and Witch on the brain, and the Alchemist gets it at level 1, and if the Witch takes the Cauldron Hex she can also get it at level 1.

But otherwise
Brew Potion - 3rd lvl

[Edit - yes Scribe Scroll... too early... need food & coffee]


W. John Hare wrote:


[Edit - yes Scribe Scroll... too early... need food & coffee]

You and me both...

@OP: I second the Bard(Magician) they are wonderful buffers and craftsman.


That is all really helpfull guys thank you. i was toying with a bard, but the only thing that puts me off is the limited amount of feats he can choose, if you can talk me around this problem i would be greatfull.

I had started building a char, a gnome universalist wizard.i also took the arcanium crafter part too which i was very impressed with. basically another free feat at level 3. which brings the tally up to scribe scroll plus 4 more feats for a level 5 char.

As i am new to the game though i really did want to experiment, please show me a light on the bard else i get a wizard apprentice.

Thanks guys/girls


djtezlee wrote:

That is all really helpfull guys thank you. i was toying with a bard, but the only thing that puts me off is the limited amount of feats he can choose, if you can talk me around this problem i would be greatfull.

I had started building a char, a gnome universalist wizard.i also took the arcanium crafter part too which i was very impressed with. basically another free feat at level 3. which brings the tally up to scribe scroll plus 4 more feats for a level 5 char.

As i am new to the game though i really did want to experiment, please show me a light on the bard else i get a wizard apprentice.

Thanks guys/girls

I am not quite sure I understand what you mean with "limited amount of feats". The bard can actually take more feats due to his class features and higher BAB...

Or do you mean the crafting-only feats?


yeah sorry i mean a wizard at level 5 with arcanarium crafting can select 5 feats, i looked at the bard and he only gets the standard 3. am i correct?

how does BAB effect the amount of feats you can take?

any feats though crafting ones will come first


I see, yes, a gnome gets only those three. But does it really matter? Look at the available feats...
Level 1 - scribe scroll
Level 3 - craft wondrous item, brew potion
Level 5 - craft wand, craft magic arms and armor
Level 7 - forge ring
Level 9 - craft rod
Level 11 - craft staff

Scribe scroll can be taken by a bard, especially a human one, no other feat available anyway.

CWI is the biggie, brew potion is not bad but not very important IMO. On the other hand, if you took it, the bard has different options like healing potions available that a wizard has not.

wand crafting, well, is generally rather frowned upon, at least that is my impression. There are really only a few good spells to put in a wand, and it's questionable if that's worth a feat. I would rather take CMAA here.

The rest: nothing lost.

So IMO it comes down to whether you want all of those feats at level 3 and 5 or if you can wait for some of them.

Personally I still think that the bard would be a larger boon to you and your party than yet another wizard :-)


my wizard has CWI anyway so if the cohort takes that too and cooperative casting then thats 50% less time crafting. not bothered about brew potion wand i was thinking is an ace feat isnt it? cure light wounds is one that would be good, know any others? but yes CMAA would be preferable there.

i suppose with the bard i could take coop craft at 1 then CWI at 3 then CMAA at 5, that might work, i get 2 feats also to choose.

one question would arcane builder stack with cooperative crafting....75% faster production?

i do agree though the extra dimension from a bard would also be invaluable.

as a human bard when getting another spell each level can that come from any arcane spell list?


djtezlee wrote:

my wizard has CWI anyway so if the cohort takes that too and cooperative casting then thats 50% less time crafting. not bothered about brew potion wand i was thinking is an ace feat isnt it? cure light wounds is one that would be good, know any others? but yes CMAA would be preferable there.

i suppose with the bard i could take coop craft at 1 then CWI at 3 then CMAA at 5, that might work, i get 2 feats also to choose.

one question would arcane builder stack with cooperative crafting....75% faster production?

i do agree though the extra dimension from a bard would also be invaluable.

There are many cool bard spells, just check the list. The cure spells are just the most obvious ones.

With cooperative crafting you would get that 75% quicker production (cooperative crafting plus spellcraft dc+5), i.e. create items worth 2000gp a day in 4hours - but you cannot double it again to 4000gp in 8 hours (or more), so that's as high as you get.

I would make a bard non-small and spend some feat like arcane strike or combat reflexes on him, make him an effective backup fighter, backup caster, bodyguard etc. for you. And don't forget the number of skills he would bring to the group... :-)

For pure wizard spell crafting and doing nothing else but hiding that second wizard is probably better. The bard is good if you want to do more than that and simply go for the higher DC but intend to gain from the performances, different spell list etc.


The extra spell is only from the class you gain the Favored Class bonus from. The only way to get other spells added to your Spell List is to be a Samsaren with an alternate racial trait.

Scarab Sages

What do you guys think of an evangelist cleric? He get's bardic buffing abilities (oratory) and all the cool cleric spells. Not as good a crafter as the magicain, but he's as good at the uni-wizard.


It's probably the mosr powerful battle cleric. I played one - it was really great :-)

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