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This thread can only end in tragedy.
Rapping is evil? :P
It's far more evil than Rock n Roll.
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This thread is bad and the OP should feel bad.
Evil: Charles Manson
Vile: 2 Girls 1 Cup
Both: Human Trafficking
The difference should be obvious.
This thread is bad and the OP should feel bad.Why should I feel bad and why is it bad?
I thought I could get some replies from mature people on here.
Should I search for another forum for mature replies?
[inigo]
That word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
[/inigo}
This thread is bad and the OP should feel bad.Why should I feel bad and why is it bad?
I thought I could get some replies from mature people on here.
Should I search for another forum for mature replies?
The bolded part is the problem; you're looking for the wrong place for maturity. Even on forums like these, there will be those immature tidbits (and 5 dollars says people will label me as one of those) that can ruin the entire purpose of the thread topic. The guy is a troll, though, so get used to it.
This does not mean that there aren't such things as mature posters or mature posts in general, but even on a forum such as this, there will be those "bad apples", if you will.
As for my input, I personally think that the whole "Vile VS Evil" concept can be touchy in that there is much interpretation and gray area, since one person can consider one action vile, while another can just say it's merely evil. If you have guidelines (which you more-or-less put as to what you considered Vile/Evil), then it isn't such a bad idea.
Honestly, I wouldn't find it important to bind a soul to an evil object, that isn't a great level of torture or vileness. It's just a way to remove an obstacle. To be truly vile about something, you just add on and add on to a point where it cannot be topped.
It would be better to take that soul, tear it into as pieces as possible, and store each part of that specific soul into a shard of a plane, where they feel every sense of negativity imaginable. It'll drive them insane, and they'll want to end their suffering, but how can they stop such a strong force when they are more or less separated and weakened? Divide and Conquer at its finest.
I can also go ahead and put in a factor of deception, putting on a guise and befriending a figurehead subject to the point of exaltation and dauntless faith in you, assisting in their glorious ascent to power and rule; while at the last moment of victory, they are backstabbed in the most brutal sense possible. If I was a creature with claws, I'd make sure to rend my claws into the stomach, spilling all of their insides out. While they bleed, you mock their very being of putting trust in you, showing that their weakness is absolutely pathetic and that you are only letting them live now just to watch them bleed to death, whereas toward the end of the speech, you pull out their bones, all connected to a humanoid skeletal shape. Talk about defacing and slaughtering in the same context! (It is also a Mortal Kombat-esque sort of thing, so it adds that kind of flavor as well.)
Another is to take a large quantity of a race and bend them to become less than slaves; think along the lines of guinea pigs, torturing them, drugging them into mindless thralls, slaughtering each other (including the handlers), and having such a thing exposed to the other, less inferior races/nations.
These were off the top of my head (and with a slight bit of thinking through); if they fit the kind of criteria you're looking for, then cool. If not, well then I tried, and I guess I'm not evil enough. I'm just a Painbringer wanting to reclaim his humanity back, not some Vile Lord.
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I think there is a severe break in the idea of wanting maturity among contributors, and asking them to dream up ways of pushing the bounds of depravity in ways that make the Book of Icky Badness look tame.
Mature people can roleplay evil as an interesting idea, but the focus is on the character and his interactions, not on exploring the depths of evil. People who are going for shock value and think up ways to push the boundaries just for the sake of pushing boundaries are not mature.
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I think there is a severe break in the idea of wanting maturity among contributors, and asking them to dream up ways of pushing the bounds of depravity in ways that make the Book of Icky Badness look tame.
Mature people can roleplay evil as an interesting idea, but the focus is on the character and his interactions, not on exploring the depths of evil. People who are going for shock value and think up ways to push the boundaries just for the sake of pushing boundaries are not mature.
Personally, this is one of the major reasons why BoVD fell short of the mark.
You can also see this in action in our horror movie industry, which has for quite some time devolved into torture/gore porn.
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A couple of suggestions for "viler than just plain evil":
- cutting off a prisoner's arms or legs, cooking them, and using them to feed both that prisoner and other prisoners.
- skinning a man/woman/child alive, then parading in front of the remaining family members while wearing the skin.
- torturing a child in front of its parents for no other reason than to watch their suffering.
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If you really want to know the difference, it's fairly simple.
Evil is an action (or, depending on strictness, thought of action) that debases, destroys, deliberately causes misery.
Vile is an action motivated by a desire to spread debasement, destruction, or misery.
It is the motivation that determines vileness, not the extremity of the action. A simple theft can be vile if done with motivations to spread sorrow.
An orc rapes a woman because he's horny - that's evil. His antipaladin boss rapes her because he wants her to suffer - that's vile.
Best thing the BoVD introduced was Vile damage, which is an awesome concept. "Some wounds are too terrible to heal". Feels very LotR to me.
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If you really want to know the difference, it's fairly simple.
Evil is an action (or, depending on strictness, thought of action) that debases, destroys, deliberately causes misery.
Vile is an action motivated by a desire to spread debasement, destruction, or misery.
It is the motivation that determines vileness, not the extremity of the action. A simple theft can be vile if done with motivations to spread sorrow.
An orc rapes a woman because he's horny - that's evil. His antipaladin boss rapes her because he wants her to suffer - that's vile.
Alright, so taking your example, doing something because it is in your nature (because he's horny, orcs can be horny right lol) is only evil. But doing something just because you want to (because he wants her to suffer), that would be vile.
Am I taking this right or wrong lol (Lion hunts to eat, still evil since he kills but he needs to eat to survive thus the law of nature, but if he hunts for fun, now thats vile)?
No, it isn't about nature, it's about choice and goal.
The lion isn't capable of moral action. He hunts and kills because he is hungry and can't distinguish between "meat that is remorseless killer" and "meat that is innocent child" - to him, they are both just meat.
The orc is capable of moral action. An orc that gets horny can choose to deal with it in several ways. He could choose to simply ignore it; he could find a prostitute; he could take matters into his own hands, so to speak. Presumably he chooses an unwilling person because it is more convenient, or cheaper, or whatever. He is capable of making a moral choice between options and has chosen one that is evil, but his motivations are still self-focused - he wants pleasure for himself. The victim is irrelevant. In fact, if there was someone willing that was more convenient, he wouldn't rape at all.
The antipaladin, though, is not thinking directly of his own pleasure. He'd take the unwilling victim even if someone willing was more convenient, because in his case it is important that there *be* a victim. Where the orc's pleasure comes from the rape itself, the antipaladin's pleasure comes from the effect the rape has on the victim - the terror and helplessness are integral to the experience.
Human centipede.
Or for truly vile watch Old Boy
Well I always said that vile is making someone suffer and too do that take away what they care for most and they will fall into despair for example kidnapping a groom on his wedding day and sending a finger a day too the groom
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Swap the mind and soul of the goodly king's only heir (preferably eight or so years old--or less) with some local irredeemable villain languishing in prison. Let the prisoner know what you're planning so that he'll act out his role well enough to avoid suspicion for at least a year or two. As the blackguard grows more and more bold, the king and queen begin to wonder how to address the problem and slowly sink into despair. Eventually, the false-heir's crimes will become so heinous that the city will demand justice. The monarch will either be forced to quell an uprising or execute his own flesh and blood--or so he thinks.
When judgment finally comes, reveal the deception and discreetly switch them back. Between the realization that their child effectively grew up in prison, a monster lived his life and laid waste to their health and sanity, and that the peasantry now hate their king and queen, madness is certain to set in.
Rapping is evil? :P
Well, it's not necessarily evil, but it is vile.
This reminds me of an old reaping mauler char I had, evil, raped an assassin once (who was also evil, but working for scared city elites, so there you go). Teamed up with other adventurers and fought plenty of demons. That was vile versus evil. Vile won (us), and then one of the adventurers killed off the vile char with holy arrows to the back. Glad they could make sure only goody goodies lasted, and on the heroes went.
Swap the mind and soul of the goodly king's only heir (preferably eight or so years old--or less) with some local irredeemable villain languishing in prison. Let the prisoner know what you're planning so that he'll act out his role well enough to avoid suspicion for at least a year or two. As the blackguard grows more and more bold, the king and queen begin to wonder how to address the problem and slowly sink into despair. Eventually, the false-heir's crimes will become so heinous that the city will demand justice. The monarch will either be forced to quell an uprising or execute his own flesh and blood--or so he thinks.
When judgment finally comes, reveal the deception and discreetly switch them back. Between the realization that their child effectively grew up in prison, a monster lived his life and laid waste to their health and sanity, and that the peasantry now hate their king and queen, madness is certain to set in.
Sold. Done. Great idea. Write a book/adventure.
Human centipede.
Or for truly vile watch Old Boy
Old Boy, such a great find. I Saw the Devil, also fantastic.
The absurdity of this thread amuses me to no end.
Also, I think some people need to recheck what is vile and what isn't.
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Having your game degenerate into an atrocity contest is usually both disgusting and tedious.
I'll just leave this here:
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I'll just leave this here:
Not only have my players been responsible for re-animated infant corpse-mail armor, but they also found out that the living variants make excellent giant flails.
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I've generally had a pretty poor reception of any notion of evil versus "vile" in a campaign. When I've seen the distinction made, it very shows that "vile" is over the top, gratuitous, and icky nasty and oftentimes confuses gross or socially frowned upon with evil - see being super skinny or super fat as "vile", gross stuff as "vile", consensual bdsm as "vile", etc.
When something crosses over certain lines to a more virulent evil that pushes players buttons in a bad way it can be effective, but it can also present something that people don't want to experience in a fantasy game. I've made my players cry over in-game events, but it took certain things that I truly don't care to repeat in game or even to a certain extent reading the fictionalized writeup again because it's just depressing.
You can have a serious exploration of evil in a campaign and its psychological effects and roots even, but stuff presented as "vile" becomes an immature carnival side-show far too often in my experience.
Leper the RPG?
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Evil = tearing somebody's guts out
Vile = exposing nipples
Yes, tearing guts out is probably evil. However, chopping off heads, hacking off limbs, impaling people with swords, drenching people in automatic fire, exploding them through hand grenades or various forms of rockets/missiles etc, frying them with lasers, slashing them with their own monofilament thumb whips... all these things are Good, not evil, as long as you do it to Evil people. You doubt me, take a look at any action movie.
The utter, monstrous depravity that is someone's nipple being visible in freeze-frame searches... the sheer horror that this means, that is truly an example of Vileness. If not more.
I've generally had a pretty poor reception of any notion of evil versus "vile" in a campaign. When I've seen the distinction made, it very shows that "vile" is over the top, gratuitous, and icky nasty and oftentimes confuses gross or socially frowned upon with evil - see being super skinny or super fat as "vile", gross stuff as "vile", consensual bdsm as "vile", etc.
When something crosses over certain lines to a more virulent evil that pushes players buttons in a bad way it can be effective, but it can also present something that people don't want to experience in a fantasy game. I've made my players cry over in-game events, but it took certain things that I truly don't care to repeat in game or even to a certain extent reading the fictionalized writeup again because it's just depressing.
You can have a serious exploration of evil in a campaign and its psychological effects and roots even, but stuff presented as "vile" becomes an immature carnival side-show far too often in my experience.
+1
Seriously, while having said it in an admittedly trollish manner, this is what I meant from my statement. That such a thread will quickly become--as we have already seen--the equivalent to "What's your favorite 'dead baby' joke."
And I'm the one who needs to grow up.
Leper the RPG?
Reminds of me BoVD's Cancer Mage...that was an odd class. I picked up 4e's version (for giggles) of BoVD and found it very lacking in substance.
Regarding the original BoVD, I liked the idea of using something like pain or sadness to create something (i.e. agony distilled from tortured characters) that might have a use later in the campaign. My mind immediately went to a scenario where the PCs are following some "strange plumbing without an apparent purpose" to its source only to discover that it is used to supply some resource gathered through a certain act of evil (torture, soul consumption, etc.). rather than just blood to feed some vampires. There were some real gems in that book.