Skills of a Black Blade

[Zimheaho]

What skills - other than Knowledge Arcana - could you legitimately claim a Black Blade has without skill points to invest?

It can see and hear so Perception looks reasonable.

Any thoughts?

[blackbloodtroll]

What do you mean?

[Banatine]

I assume you mean what skills could it use untrained?

In which case, it can use any skill based on Int, Wis, or Cha that is not 'Trained only'. As it does not possess Str, Dex, or Con, it cannot use any skills based on those abilities.

[STR Ranger]

Don't forget as a familiar it can use the magus skill ranks to make checks.

[Zimheaho]

Yes untrained, black blades only get ranks in Knowledge Arcana.

Looking at the Int,Wis,Cha skills untrained is what I did though some may not make sense. So could black blade Disguise itself?

As it can't speak it can't Intimidate or Bluff unless telepathically against the wielder?

I am trying to get an idea of which skills are useful in practical terms.

[Zimheaho]

@STR Ranger - does it really qualify as a familiar? I was working from the premise that only Knowledge Arcana will have skill ranks that can be used and never ranks from the magus.

[Kazaan]

Zimheaho wrote:

Yes untrained, black blades only get ranks in Knowledge Arcana.

Looking at the Int,Wis,Cha skills untrained is what I did though some may not make sense. So could black blade Disguise itself?

As it can't speak it can't Intimidate or Bluff unless telepathically against the wielder?

I am trying to get an idea of which skills are useful in practical terms.

Disguise: I'm not a sword... just a really big knife.

Bluff: I'm gonna stab you in yo' left eye *stabs in right arm*
Intimidate: I'm not gonna kill you in one cut... I'll take thousands.
Diplomacy: Lets work together... I stab you in the face and you die.
Sense Motive: HE'S COMIN' RIGHT FOR US!

On a more serious note; you don't necessarily have to speak to intimidate (or bluff, for that matter). The blade could look unnaturally sharp, maybe have some audible sharpness at just the right moment to unnerve an opponent.

[STR Ranger]

Quote:

A black blade is bonded to a particular magus, much like a familiar, but in more of a partnership than a master-servant relationship.

While a magus is wielding his black blade, he gains the Alertness feat.

A black blade is Bonded and Sentient
Grants Alertness when wielded.

A magus with a black blade CANNOT gain a familiar, even from other classes
Why?

Cause the blade is his familiar

[LazarX]

STR Ranger wrote:

Quote:

A black blade is bonded to a particular magus, much like a familiar, but in more of a partnership than a master-servant relationship.

While a magus is wielding his black blade, he gains the Alertness feat.

A black blade is Bonded and Sentient
Grants Alertness when wielded.

A magus with a black blade CANNOT gain a familiar, even from other classes
Why?

Cause the blade is his familiar

Don't use that verbiage. The Black blade is a companion that precludes all other types including familliars, animal companions, eidolons, etc.

The following is the totality of what it gets in skills.

Languages and Skills: A black blade starts with Common as a language. As the black blade increases in Intelligence, it manifests knowledge of languages and arcane lore. Upon reaching an Intelligence of 12, it gains a bonus language of the GM’s choice, and gains 1 rank in Knowledge (arcana). Each time the sword gains a bonus to Intelligence, it gains another language and another rank in Knowledge (arcana).

[Zimheaho]

This was my dilemma, the entry indiactes only Knowledge Arcana.

And yet the blade can see and hear, so you would presume at least Perception as another skill even though ranks can't be assigned.

I think I'll need to make a case to the GM.

[LazarX]

Zimheaho wrote:

This was my dilemma, the entry indiactes only Knowledge Arcana.

And yet the blade can see and hear, so you would presume at least Perception as another skill even though ranks can't be assigned.

I think I'll need to make a case to the GM.

You could presume all you want. But you'll have to acknowledge that what you're asking for is not supported by text. The blade is not meant to be a separate character, nor an independent one like a familliar. What's meant to be is a weapon and the language and skills are given are flavor additions, not central to it's mechanic.

The black blade's consciousness is not that of a typical living being. It's a weapon of a particular nature so it's skills are pretty much focused on that. You might have the magus player who doesn't bother with knowledge arcana (kind of like that Living Greyhawk cleric who wouldn't take Knowledge, Religion) so that's about the only instance where the blade's skill set assumes any importance. That and it's languages. But it does not get the skill pts that a regular character of it's intelligence would get and that's a deliberate design choice.

[Zimheaho]

Sure I understand, though rules in one place can be contradicted or at least made uncertain.

I am inclined to go with the pure text, RAW.

Was just testing the water is all...

[threemilechild]

They're clear about the Black Blade being an intelligent item, and intelligent items are meant to be treated as NPCs. Intelligent items can only use skills based on mental stats unless they can move -- as people have said.

To go down the list:
Appraise, Bluff, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Heal, Intimidate, Perception, Perform, Sense Motive, Survival

...are the mental stat based skills that can be used untrained.

Appraise, Bluff, Diplomacy, Perception, and Sense Motive are all obvious, assuming that the Black Blade has the ability to communicate. Perform seems reasonable for Singing, Comedy, and the like, not so much with Dancing. (There's an Arcana for that, isn't there?) Survival checks to keep from being lost make sense. Lastly, I think that even Craft or Disguise checks could be made to Aid Another -- it's perfectly reasonable that the sword could supervise work or point out where a pointy ear is showing through a wig.

[Azaelas Fayth]

OK if it is an intelligent item I would say treat it as such. If it is an artifact doubly so. The Knowledge: Arcana and Languages is a flavor ability.

That being said where is this item?

[Anetra]

Azaelas Fayth wrote:

That being said where is this item?

Black Blades are a feature of the Bladebound Magus archetype.

[Azaelas Fayth]

Hmm I never noticed that archetype before...

What has been stated is correct from my interpretation of the archetype.

[Gjorbjond]

The Black Blade can only communicate telepathically with its wielder. The social skills are pretty useless unless it's trying to convince its wielder to do something.

As a GM, it would make a lot of sense to replace the Knowledge (Arcana) with another knowledge skill more suited to the sword's special purpose. I.e. if it's out to destroy aberrations, give it Knowledge (Dungeoneering) instead.

[LazarX]

threemilechild wrote:

They're clear about the Black Blade being an intelligent item, and intelligent items are meant to be treated as NPCs. Intelligent items can only use skills based on mental stats unless they can move -- as people have said.

To go down the list:
Appraise, Bluff, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Heal, Intimidate, Perception, Perform, Sense Motive, Survival

...are the mental stat based skills that can be used untrained.

Appraise, Bluff, Diplomacy, Perception, and Sense Motive are all obvious, assuming that the Black Blade has the ability to communicate. Perform seems reasonable for Singing, Comedy, and the like, not so much with Dancing. (There's an Arcana for that, isn't there?) Survival checks to keep from being lost make sense. Lastly, I think that even Craft or Disguise checks could be made to Aid Another -- it's perfectly reasonable that the sword could supervise work or point out where a pointy ear is showing through a wig.

Remember that the Black Blade is an exception to the general rules of intelligent item design. It does not even follow the rules for intelligent weapons. the blade gets two skill points, and only when it gets an intelligent plus modifier, which is essentially every time it's enhancement bonus goes up by one. Those skill points are hardwired into improving Knowledge Arcana and Linguistics. All other skills that you'd want to use from it are limited to default attribute rolls and given that the blade does not have an effective Strength or Dex score, there's really not much you're going to do with it as a skill monkey.

So in some areas it may give you an aid another roll, but that's about it.