|
Been going over this for almost six months now, and is still a bur in my craw. See, I wanted to use Adopted to get Etymology from the Gnome race book for my Tengu when I created him. Seems this can not be done, even as it says it can in the book itself.
The reason? Both Adopted and Etymology are social traits as well as Etymology being a Racial/Race trait.
So, the traits that make the most sense to get with the Adopted Trait can not be taken because of the particulars of those traits. (It conflicts with the Social choice of Adopted)
Broken?
Be careful with the racial/race trait. Race traits refer to traits that you can choose for your character, while Racial Traits are abilities specific to that race.
You can find almost all the racial traits in the race section of the CRB. You can find race traits at the back of the APG.
With that, if this was a home game, I'd still allow it.
|
|
Been going over this for almost six months now, and is still a bur in my craw. See, I wanted to use Adopted to get Etymology from the Gnome race book for my Tengu when I created him. Seems this can not be done, even as it says it can in the book itself.
The reason? Both Adopted and Etymology are social traits as well as Etymology being a Racial/Race trait.
So, the traits that make the most sense to get with the Adopted Trait can not be taken because of the particulars of those traits. (It conflicts with the Social choice of Adopted)
Broken?
Here is the thing. Etymology is not a Race trait, it is a Social trait that requires you to be a Gnome. There is a difference. Therefore even if you were allowed more than one Trait per category you still could not use the Adopted Trait to get Etymology. That is RAW. Is it Broken? No.
All that said as a GM would I allow it? Yes, absolutely, it makes sense and works. It would not be overpowering at all. As a secondary option, take the Cosmopolitan Regional trait from Absalom, it grants the same benefits except no bonus language.
|
|
Be careful with the racial/race trait. Race traits refer to traits that you can choose for your character, while Racial Traits are abilities specific to that race.
You can find almost all the racial traits in the race section of the CRB. You can find race traits at the back of the APG.
With that, if this was a home game, I'd still allow it.
I am talking traits, the background component to a character, commonly called "1/2 feats" by some, not Racial physical/learned as a kid particulars that make up a Race write up, unfortunately called "race traits" at some point.
The traits I refer to are, at least in the Gnome book, are "...considered racial traits..." and Adopted is actually mentioned as a way for a character to take them as such. It is this that the delvs have backtracked on and excluded the Social "racial" traits.
More confusion is sewn when the original trait web give out has some of the triats that has been re-organized, having Raspcallion, for example, become a combat racial trait, making some character which have that and a combat trait to have to eliminate one of the traits taken before the gnome book was out.
Some may confuse the two if they are trying to min/max, but I have common sense.
|
|
Been going over this for almost six months now, and is still a bur in my craw. See, I wanted to use Adopted to get Etymology from the Gnome race book for my Tengu when I created him. Seems this can not be done, even as it says it can in the book itself.
The reason? Both Adopted and Etymology are social traits as well as Etymology being a Racial/Race trait.
So, the traits that make the most sense to get with the Adopted Trait can not be taken because of the particulars of those traits. (It conflicts with the Social choice of Adopted)
Broken?
Here is the thing. Etymology is not a Race trait, it is a Social trait that requires you to be a Gnome. There is a difference. Therefore even if you were allowed more than one Trait per category you still could not use the Adopted Trait to get Etymology. That is RAW. Is it Broken? No.
All that said as a GM would I allow it? Yes, absolutely, it makes sense and works. It would not be overpowering at all. As a secondary option, take the Cosmopolitan Regional trait from Absalom, it grants the same benefits except no bonus language.
From above, the gnome book, and I assume the others out there, makes the point of saying that the traits are considered racial traits before they are split into the four categories of the Basic Traits. (Combat, Faith, Magic and Social)
|
|
Been going over this for almost six months now, and is still a bur in my craw. See, I wanted to use Adopted to get Etymology from the Gnome race book for my Tengu when I created him. Seems this can not be done, even as it says it can in the book itself.
The reason? Both Adopted and Etymology are social traits as well as Etymology being a Racial/Race trait.
So, the traits that make the most sense to get with the Adopted Trait can not be taken because of the particulars of those traits. (It conflicts with the Social choice of Adopted)
Broken?
Here is the thing. Etymology is not a Race trait, it is a Social trait that requires you to be a Gnome. There is a difference. Therefore even if you were allowed more than one Trait per category you still could not use the Adopted Trait to get Etymology. That is RAW. Is it Broken? No.
All that said as a GM would I allow it? Yes, absolutely, it makes sense and works. It would not be overpowering at all. As a secondary option, take the Cosmopolitan Regional trait from Absalom, it grants the same benefits except no bonus language.
From above, the gnome book, and I assume the others out there, makes the point of saying that the traits are considered racial traits before they are split into the four categories of the Basic Traits. (Combat, Faith, Magic and Social)
Well the Gnome book, which I am looking at as I type this, does indeed call them racial traits. There is a problem there in that they are explicitly not Racial traits. Racial traits are the traits that are common to every member of a given species. They might be Race traits. That however is an issue for the editors.
They may be Race traits, but I would argue that it is a bad idea to have Traits that are in multiple categories.
|
|
I believe I would want to call the Racial Traits in the particular race write up something other than "traits" to avoid that particular confusion. Something that is more innate and inclusive that might separate them from the Traits altogether. Racial Makeups or Origins perhaps.
I think that the "traits" that a race gets, including the stat changes and type of vision, really shouldn't be an issue at this particular discussion. Common sense would make it seem that the Traits in question would be those within the Trait section of the books, not the innate traits (or those innate traits that can be exchanged in the ARG) from a race entry.
Never accured to me to confuse the two until someone mentioned it in the other thread.
|
Gnomes of Golarion says you can take "gnome racial traits" (that is, the traits presented in the sourcebook) using the Adopted trait, edit: so we should read the book in one of two ways that allow that to happen:
- You can take any of the traits in the sourcebook either as a gnome race trait or (if you are a gnome) as a trait from the stated list, or
- Each of the traits in the book is both a gnome race trait and a trait from the stated list, meaning that a gnome who takes Etymologist cannot take another race trait or social trait and a character with the Adopted trait can select a trait from the book, other than the ones listed as social traits.
The second reading is less likely to be right because it would introduce a restriction on gnomes that isn't mentioned in the sourcebook.
|
|
As it was related to me, one can not have two social traits, so Adopted can not be used to get the traits that make the most sense to get with it. (that is, the Social Racial Traits)
Why the writers of the book (or of the first (races) of book that began the format) decided to split the Race Traits into the Basic Traits categories is beyond my understanding.
|
|
Anyone know if there has been any changes to this ridiculous conundrum?
I would hope that after the last GenCon and the constant questions about this would have at least prompted another look at Adopted and how it is implemented. I should have been able to get Etymology Gnome trait with Adopted and it still hurts me when I see that I had to use a feat instead (cosmopolitan) to get Linguists as a class skill.
Flailing at windmills...
|
|
| 4 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Hi Folks!
I've been running these same issues through my head and am hoping I can get an answer . . .
Gnomes of Golarion (GoG), page 14 of the Gnome Traits chapter, includes a statement that all the included traits are considered gnome racial traits and continues to state that only gnomes can take them.
Now, the Adopted trait clearly states that Race Traits can be taken and we have seen in numerous threads here on the Paizo messageboard that there is a difference between Race Traits and racial traits.
GoG then makes the following statement: (Of course, a character of a different race could still select a gnome racial trait if she has the Adopted trait presented in the Pathfinder RPG Character Traits Web Enhancement.).
Each Trait included in GoG is listed as either a Social, Combat, Faith, or Magic Traits, which are normally not allowed to be taken through the Adopted Trait.
So was it the intention of the authors to allow all of the Traits in Gnomes of Golarion to be taken as part of the adopted trait? Or do these Traits, as suggested in a previous message, both Race Traits as well as the trait type specified in the book? Or did the authors make a mistake in the book?
Thanks for any help here.
---
Eric C Smith
PCGen Doc 2nd
PR/PL Chimp, Data Chimp
Tracker Gibbon, Web Lemur
Tenacious Monkey
P.S. I'm working on this book for PCGen and it makes a big difference which is the case.
P.P.S. This message was originally posted on Gnomes of Golarion product message board. Feel free to ignore it over there.