Behold! My very own BBEG for Rise of the Runelords!


Rise of the Runelords

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Hey everyone,

I've been working on this and tweaking things for a while now, but using Class abilities, Monster Creation Rules and Character Creation Rules, I've created my own BBEG to be fought before the final fights in Rise of the Runelords.

The CR by my calculations is 25.

What I'd love to know is how likely you all feel the parties survival rates will be against these two and where you'd most feel comfortable adding them into the story?

I'm thinking somewhere in the latter parts of book 6, but I'd love some feedback on this, which is why I've created this thread in the Advice section of the forums.

Anyway, on with the details:

*The Wandering Swordsman of Legend*
Can be found on the Bounty Board in the Rusty Dragon, reading the following details:

"Many travellers have claimed sightings of an unknown Swordsman, wandering the plains of Varisia.

Some say he's a lost soul, destined to roam the lands for all eternity. Others say he's a friendly guy who loves nature. Most however, claim to have seen him clash blades with legendary fighters, caring little for their lives and collecting their weapons as victory trophies.

I'd like whoever's reading this to find truth behind the matter and hopefully put an end to these stupid rumours!"

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Name: ???
Age: ???
Race: ???

Reward:

To the Adventurers reading this; Report back to me (Ameiko) and if there's any truth behind the tales, I'll spread word of your Heroic actions and reward you for your troubles.

Title Achieved - "The Defenders of Varisia"

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Encounter Challenge Rating: 25

Name: Gilgamesh
Level: 15
Class: Ranger - Infiltrator
Race: Large Human

Initiative: 8

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Defense
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AC: 26, Touch: 14, Flat-Footed: 21
HP: 234
Fort: 17, Ref: 14, Will: 11 (13 vs Charm and Compulsion, 17 due to Devotion from Animal Companion)

With Natural Armour Adaptation:

AC: 28, Touch: 14, Flat-Footed: 23

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Offense
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Speed 30ft
Reach: 10ft

Melee: Punishing Kick +25, 1d4+10 x2, bludgeoning - Uses Per Day: 3
- Knock Prone (DC23 Fortitude Negates)
- Knock Back 5 feet

Buster Sword (+3 Medium Greatsword) = +25, 2d6+13, 17-20x2
Revolver (+1 Medium Flaming Falchion) = +22, 2d4+11+1d6 Fire Damage, 18-20x2
Orihalcum (+1 Large Holy Dagger) = +22, 1d6+11+2d6 Holy Damage, 19-20x2
Brotherhood (+1 Medium Icy Burst Bastard Sword) = +22, 1d10+11+1d6 Frost +1d10 Cold Damage on Crit, 19-20x2
Zantetsuken (+1 Large Shocking Burst Wakizashi) = +22, 1d8+11+1d6 Shock +1d10 Electrical Damage on Crit, 18-20x2
Tournesol (+5 Medium Keen Greatsword) = +27, 2d6+15, 17-20x2

With Power Attack:

Buster Sword (+3 Medium Greatsword) = +21, 2d6+21, 17-20x2
Revolver (+1 Medium Flaming Falchion) = +18, 2d4+19+1d6 Fire Damage, 18-20x2
Orihalcum (+1 Large Holy Dagger) = 18, 1d6+19+2d6 Holy Damage, 19-20x2
Brotherhood (+1 Medium Icy Burst Bastard Sword) = +18, 1d10+19+1d6 Frost +1d10 Cold Damage on Crit, 19-20x2
Zantetsuken (+1 Large Shocking Burst Wakizashi) = +18, 1d8+19+1d6 Shock +1d10 Electrical Damage on Crit, 18-20x2
Tournesol (+5 Medium Keen Greatsword) = +23, 2d6+23, 17-20x2

Note: When attacking vs Favoured Enemy, the attack routine is as follows...

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Favoured Enemy
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Vs Magical Beasts: Buster Sword +33, 2d6+21, 17-20x2
Revolver +30, 2d4+19+1d6 Fire Damage, 18-20x2
Orihalcum +30, 1d6+19+2d6 Holy Damage, 19-20x2
Brotherhood +30, 1d10+19+1d6 Frost +1d10 Cold Damage on Crit, 19-20x2
Zantetsuken +30, 1d8+19+1d6 Shock +1d10 Electrical Damage on Crit, 18-20x2
Tournesol +35, 2d6+23, 17-20x2

Vs Giants: Buster Sword +31, 2d6+19, 17-20x2
Revolver +28, 2d4+17+1d6 Fire Damage, 18-20x2
Orihalcum +28, 1d6+17+2d6 Holy Damage, 19-20x2
Brotherhood +28, 1d10+17+1d6 Frost +1d10 Cold Damage on Crit, 19-20x2
Zantetsuken +28, 1d8+17+1d6 Shock +1d10 Electrical Damage on Crit, 18-20x2
Tournesol +33, 2d6+21, 17-20x2

Vs Humans: Buster Sword +29, 2d6+17, 17-20x2
Revolver +26, 2d4+15+1d6 Fire Damage, 18-20x2
Orihalcum +26, 1d6+15+2d6 Holy Damage, 19-20x2
Brotherhood +26, 1d10+15+1d6 Frost +1d10 Cold Damage on Crit, 19-20x2
Zantetsuken +26, 1d8+15+1d6 Shock +1d10 Electrical Damage on Crit, 18-20x2
Tournesol +31, 2d6+19, 17-20x2

Vs Orcs: Buster Sword +27, 2d6+15, 17-20x2
Revolver +24, 2d4+13+1d6 Fire Damage, 18-20x2
Orihalcum +24, 1d6+13+2d6 Holy Damage, 19-20x2
Brotherhood +24, 1d10+13+1d6 Frost +1d10 Cold Damage on Crit, 19-20x2
Zantetsuken +24, 1d8+13+1d6 Shock +1d10 Electrical Damage on Crit, 18-20x2
Tournesol +29, 2d6+17, 17-20x2

With Power Attack:

Vs Magical Beasts: Buster Sword +29, 2d6+29, 17-20x2
Revolver +26, 2d4+27+1d6 Fire Damage, 18-20x2
Orihalcum +26, 1d6+27+2d6 Holy Damage, 19-20x2
Brotherhood +26, 1d10+27+1d6 Frost +1d10 Cold Damage on Crit, 19-20x2
Zantetsuken +26, 1d8+27+1d6 Shock +1d10 Electrical Damage on Crit, 18-20x2
Tournesol +31, 2d6+31, 17-20x2

Vs Giants: Buster Sword +27, 2d6+27, 17-20x2
Revolver +24, 2d4+25+1d6 Fire Damage, 18-20x2
Orihalcum +24, 1d6+25+2d6 Holy Damage, 19-20x2
Brotherhood +24, 1d10+25+1d6 Frost +1d10 Cold Damage on Crit, 19-20x2
Zantetsuken +24, 1d8+25+1d6 Shock +1d10 Electrical Damage on Crit, 18-20x2
Tournesol +29, 2d6+29, 17-20x2

Vs Humans: Buster Sword +25, 2d6+25, 17-20x2
Revolver +22, 2d4+23+1d6 Fire Damage, 18-20x2
Orihalcum +22, 1d6+23+2d6 Holy Damage, 19-20x2
Brotherhood +22, 1d10+23+1d6 Frost +1d10 Cold Damage on Crit, 19-20x2
Zantetsuken +22, 1d8+23+1d6 Shock +1d10 Electrical Damage on Crit, 18-20x2
Tournesol +27, 2d6+27, 17-20x2

Vs Orcs: Buster Sword +23, 2d6+23, 17-20x2
Revolver +20, 2d4+21+1d6 Fire Damage, 18-20x2
Orihalcum +20, 1d6+21+2d6 Holy Damage, 19-20x2
Brotherhood +20, 1d10+21+1d6 Frost +1d10 Cold Damage on Crit, 19-20x2
Zantetsuken +20, 1d8+21+1d6 Shock +1d10 Electrical Damage on Crit, 18-20x2
Tournesol +25, 2d6+25, 17-20x2

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Spells
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Level 1: Dancing Lantern, Hunter's Howl, Resist Energy, Shield, Lead Blades (increases weapon category by one size, in this case to Large Weapon Damage)

Level 2: Badger's Ferocity, Barkskin, Cure Light Wounds x2.

Level 3: Cure Moderate Wounds, Fickle Winds, Darkvision

Level 4: Animal Growth, Cure Serious Wounds

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Stats
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Str 30, Dex 20, Con 26, Wis 22, Int 13, Cha 10

BAB: 15
CMB: 26 (+1 due to size, 28 on Bull Rush attempt)
CMD: 41 (+1 due to size, 43 resisting Bull Rush attempts)

Feats Multiweapon Fighting, Weapon Focus: Greatsword, Combat feat - Double Slice, Power Attack, Combat Expertise, Combat feat - Two-Weapon Defense, Improved Bull Rush, Furious Focus, Combat feat - Two-Weapon Rend, Defensive Flurry (uses up 3 feat slots), Improved Critical (Great Sword)

Traits Birthmark
Racial Heart of the Wilderness
Skills Acrobatics: 10, Bluff: 10, Handle Animal: 18, Heal: 24, Knowledge Arcana: 16, Knowledge Nature: 19, Perception: 24, Survival: 31
Languages Common, Sylvan

Gear - Potion of Cure Mod Wounds x4, Potion of Cure Critical x1, 3000gp, Ring of Regeneration, Genji Shield, Genji Gloves, Genji Helm, Genji Armour, Brooch of Shielding, +4 Ring of Protection, +3 Amulet of Natural Armour, +5 Padded Armour, Greatsword x3, Wakizashi, Bastard Sword, Dagger, Falchion.

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Class
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Favoured Enemy:

Magical Beast - +8 extra Attack and Damage vs Magical Beasts
Giant - +6 extra Attack and Damage vs Giants
Human - +4 extra Attack and Damage vs Humans
Orc - +2 extra Attack and Damage vs Orcs

Adaptations (Lasts 10 minutes per Ranger level, per day):

3. Magical Beast - Natural Armour +2
8. Giant - Resist Energy 10 (Cold, Electricity or Fire - Use at start), Lunge
13. Human - Iron Will, Skill Focus (Handle Animal)
15. Orc - Ferocity (Use upon dropping to 40% health), Darkvision 60ft

Woodland Stride: Can move through overgrowth, briars and thorns at normal speed without taking damage or suffering penalties.

Evasion: Take no damage on successful Reflex saving throw for half damage.

Quarry (Ex): At 11th level, as a standard action you can denote one target within line of sight as your quarry. Whenever you're following the tracks of your quarry, you can take 10 on your Survival skill checks while moving at normal speed, without penalty. In addition, you receive a +2 insight bonus on attack rolls made against your quarry and all critical threats are automatically confirmed. This creatures type must correspond to one of your favored enemies. You can dismiss this effect at any time as a free action, but cannot select a new quarry for 24 hours. If you see proof of your quarry's demise, you can select a new quarry after 1 hour.

Animal Companion - Enkidu

Companion abilities: Devotion (+4 vs Enchantments), Evasion (take no damage if saved against half damage reflex save), Link (can handle companion as a free action without Handle Animal) and Share Spells (can cast Ranger Spells with a target of "You" on your Companion).

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Copied Class Abilities
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Defensive Flurry (Ex): At 3rd level, when a two-weapon warrior makes a full attack with both weapons, he gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC against melee attacks until the beginning of his next turn. This bonus increases by +1 every four levels after 3rd.

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Item Information
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Weapons: 6 - Buster Sword (+3 Greatsword), Revolver (+1 Flaming Falchion), Orichalcum (+1 Holy Dagger), Brotherhood (+1 Icy Burst Bastard Sword), Zantetsuken (Shocking Burst Wakizashi), Tournesol (+5 Keen Greatsword), Sword of Legend/Wyrmhero Blade (+3 Holy, Vorpal Greatsword) will be a weapon he has but refuses to use as it's his prize posession that he doesn't want damaged, so this will be the ultimate reward for the players.

Genji Shield: Although Gilgamesh doesn't use this, this is one of his valuable collections. Grants +6 Bonus to AC and negates Magic Missiles.

Genji Helm: Grants the ability to Counter Attacks - 10% Chance of a free Attack of Opportunity, due to the helmet's ability that gives the wearer heightened senses when reacting to danger.

Genji Armour: +2 reflex saves and triples the counter chance, given by the Genji Helm.

Genji Gloves: While equipped, you gain haste. If you wield one weapon, this applies to that weapon. If you wield two weapons, this applies to both weapons.

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Abilities
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Sleep: May cast Sleep a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom Modifier.

Slow: May cast Slow a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom Modifier.

Silence: May cast Silence a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom Modifier.

Disable: May cast Hold Person a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom Modifier.

Kick: As the feat Punishing Kick, but provokes an Attack of Opportunity.

When below 40% HP:

Slice Thrice: May charge and hit with three Weapons and deliver a bull rush attempt at the end of this attack as a free action. This does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

Shield: May cast Anti-Magic field at will once per day. This lasts one round per level, or until dismissed.

Paling (Sp): Bolster physical resistance to negate damage. All Physical Damage is negated for 1 round per level. This is a Spell Like Ability and can be dismissed with a successful Dispel Magic Spell.

Fast Healing: Gilgamesh gains Regeneration 5.

When below 20% HP:

Haste: May cast haste at will once per day.
Swift Healing: Gilgamesh gains Regeneration 15.

Enkidu
Barbarian - Invulnerable Rager
N Wolf
Initiative: 6

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Defense
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AC: 22 (+5 Natural, +4 Dex, +3 Amulet of Natural Armour), Flat-Footed: 18, Touch: 14
HP: 147
Fort: 13, Ref: 7, Will: 5 (9 vs Spells, Supernatural Abilities and Spell Like Abilities)

While Raging:

AC: 20, Flat-Footed: 16, Touch: 12
HP: 167
Fort: 13, Ref: 7, Will: 7 (11 vs Spells, Supernatural Abilities and Spell Like Abilities)

Damage Reduction: 8
Extreme Endurance: Immune to Hot Climate Effects and gains Fire Resistance 3.

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Offense
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Speed: 50ft (Fast Movement)
Fly: 60ft

Melee: Bite: +15 (2d6+7 + Trip)
- In Rage (Adrenaline): +17 (2d6+10 + Trip)

Claw Swipe x2: +15 (1d6+7, 1d6+7)
- In Rage (Adrenaline): +17 (1d6+10, 1d6+10)

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Stats
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Str 20 (24 while Raging), Dex 19, Con 22 (26 while Raging), Wis 14, Int 14, Cha 10
BAB: 10, CMB: 15 (17 in rage), CMD: 29 (31 in rage)
Feats: Toughness, Skill Focus: Perception, Combat Reflexes, Extra Rage Power, Extra Rage Power
Traits: Reactionary
Racial Abilities: Scent, Darkvision
Skills: Acrobatics: 17, Fly: 14, Heal: 12, Perception: 18, Survival: 15, Swim: 18
Languages: Common, Sylvan
Gear +3 Amulet of Natural Armour

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Class
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Rage Powers:

1. Increased Damage Reduction
2. Renewed Vigor
3. Unexpected Strike
4. Increased Damage Reduction
5. Increased Damage Reduction
6. Superstition

Damage Reduction: 8
Extreme Endurance: Immune to Hot Climate Effects and gains Fire Resistance 3.

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Special Abilities
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Parry: May 5 foot step as an immediate action.
Last Stand: Works as Ferocity.
Adrenaline: When below 40% health, you gain the effects of Rage.
Fly, Enkidu!: Enkidu can fly by and swipe at his opponent for double his normal attack damage. This lasts for two rounds and has a recharge time of two.
Now, Enkidu!: Flanks opponent on Gilgamesh's Command.
Eerie Soundwave: Grants Enkidu +1 atk and dmg for 1 minute.
Sonic Fangs: As the spell, Shatter.
Crushing Fangs: Bite that deals 1d6 Str or Dex damage (breaks bones - as the Bonebreaker feat).
Growl: Causes fear.
Lunge: Has reach.
Dash: Can double move and full attack, like the Pounce ability.
Petrify: Can bite an opponent for a chance to turn them to stone (DC18 Negates).

They both have weaknesses, just not very many, but I have faith this fight is winnable with a group of 4 pretty well optimised characters.

What do you all think?


Be sure when you assign his gear and buffs, that his statistics are around a cr 25, the besitary 2 has a statistics chart going up to that point.
I also have gilgamesh showing up in the First World, hired by Nyrissa to stop the party and seize the sword Briar for himself. My version of Gilgamesh is a 20th level summoner 1st level fighter, with the synthesyst archetype, his Eidolon is his Genji armor, i have the encounters split in two, one were he is normal with his naginata, the second when he morphs and pulls out his multitudes of artifacts, Enkidu however is entirely differant encounter, mine is more like the FF 5 version, a half-fiend humbaba.


Ah, still, will you be playing the theme tune through the battle? :p

I'm hoping a party of four level 15 or 16's will be able to beat these two. Maybe that's wishful thinking, but you could say that four level 15's equal CR56, where as these two above are only CR25 when together.

Maths would say the PC's should win every time, but they don't have half of these guys abilities, so I think the odds are against the PC's.

Not sure what level you or others would suggest they face him, but both he and his companions AC's are pretty much their weakness. Gil's HP is pretty decent, but Enk's not so much.

I feel that this reflects the way they fight in 12, as Enk has a lot less life than Gil, but it's between a half and a third of Gil's HP, so the stats seem about right when compared. :D

It'll be a fun, if not confusing battle for me to play, but if the PC's get there, I'll be very much looking forward to this.

Earlier stages and stats of this build would have made this a very one sided fight and possibly outright killed any PC, so I had to tweak it, but am pretty happy with how it currently is and most of the homebrew is actually mixing Pathfinder rules together, instead of creating everything myself.

Still, I managed to carry over all of the necessary abilities from FF12 and Pathfinderise them. :p


I wanna pipe up and thank you for giving me inspiration for the 7th part of rise of the runelords I have decided needs to be added on. I decided to amp up the runelord at the end and have him defeat the party to extend things on to the higher levels so my group can really stretch it's legs. I'm not exactly using the bosses but the armor set he's wearing helped me with the idea to flesh out part of what I had and decide where to put it.

Asta
PSY

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

This isn't a CR 25 fight - you don't get the CR of an encounter by adding the CR of the creatures together. This will be barely CR 15 as the Wolf will not add much - it needs to be of a similar level to contribute much in the fight. To be honest, a party of 15-16th level will probably walk all over him. If you want them to really feel challenged by a solo creature, it needs to be a couple of levels higher than them. Even then, it's going to suffer from the action economy. You've given him all these special powers that trigger off his hit points, but several will need him to take vital turns starting them up, and he simply won't have them - even with his regeneration abilities, a half decent party will probably push him through 40% straight under 20% in a round.

A half decent fighter at this level will have 15 bab, 7 from stat, 4 from weapon, and 3 from weapon training. That means he's hit Gil on anything but a 1, even without buffs or feats. This means he can easily make a power attack, with let's say a longsword. This will take 4 off the hit, which means hitting on a 3. If he has a greatsword, that means that you'd have 2d6+12(PA)+10(Str)+3(WT)+4(Magic)+2(WS) so2d6+31. You,ll almost always get the first hit and haste hit in, and probably both the second and third attacks as well, so 8d6+124 a turn, half his hit points.

Silver Crusade

You got a lot of problems here. I could solo this fight with a 15th level Wizard.

Cast Reverse Gravity

Laugh while he floats in the air helpless.

Maze his dog

Enervate the crap out of him until he's dead from the negative levels.

You have no spell resistance, no means of flight, no ranged attacks, and the saves aren't terribly impressive


So, if anything I should ramp him up?

I'll check out how Spell Resistance works and hopefully get him a Spell Resistance of like 25.

The Wolf can fly, but Gilgamesh can't, so between he and his dog, the bases were fairly covered.

Gravity can kill anything really, but the party's likely to be a Magus Rogue (4 levels Rogue, 13 Magus), a Barbarian, a Wizard based on Tony Stark and that's it for now.

Hit Points could be ramped up, as well as his AC. Maybe he could have extra high Natural Armour.

What would you guys do to make him more of a challenge?

So far I have:

Spell Resistance
Extra AC
Extra HP (which doesn't need to be ramped up if the AC is raised. Failing that, keep AC the same and ramp up HP)

If I want his saves to be ramped up, I could add more, but figured his attacks alone were stupidly powerful. Maybe I'm actually wrong and haven't made a broken character. :p

Increase all stats by 10?


Here's what I suggest you do:

If you have the character sheets for the PCs, try to run a playtest combat (perhaps more than once). That will let you see how this encounter will actually stack up against the characters.

***

By the way: I understand there's a flavor reason for this guy not wanting to use his +3 holy vorpal sword (or his +6 AC shield), but remember that your PC's will use them in their future encounters. There's no reason to give an enemy super-powerful items that he won't use.

Also: Why does Defensive Flurry take up 3 feat slots?

One other thing: I would swap his ring of regeneration for a different ring, and give him winged boots. The ring doesn't really do much for him, since he already gets his own regeneration when he's on low hit points. And some maneuverability in the form of flying would be nice.


Spell resistance is good; frustrates casters. This guy is one heightened baleful polymorph away from being a cute little bunny.

Here's the thing... to make a truly challenging encounter you need a variety of abilities that complement one another. That and the action economy together are why multi-opponent encounters are challenging. This guy is basically a melee dude with a couple spell-like abilities and other abilities that just boost his being-a-melee-dude. Well, um, okay.

What does he do about greater invisibility? What does he do when he gets disarmed? What does he do when he fails against a heightened black tentacles (or similar) and can't move?

Making this a challenge that will be remembered - as opposed to a speed-bump - requires more than just more. Yes, his attacks and damage are good. But he's not going to get to make them. More armor and more hit points is just more. More stuff he doesn't need. He needs diversity.

That diversity needs to come in the form of additional defenses. Maybe Greater Iron Will so he can re-roll one failed save a day. Maybe some ability that gives him a blur type of effect. Maybe he's got something that grants him freedom of movement for a couple rounds a day - at a cost. Maybe once a day the wolf can become the target of a harmful spell cast on him.

As it stands this is just a Big Evil Guy, not a Big BAD Evil Guy. And big guys are easy to smush. Think outside of the box and look at existing high-level encounters. You generally don't see "I'm a ranger... fear me" at high level.


I just realized that this guy does have a pretty good melee routine though; assuming the intent is that he attacks with all 6 swords at full BAB during a single full-attack, that's a pretty neat amount of damage if he gets up close and personal with the PCs.

So, melee-wise, he's a vastly powered-up Marilith. His defenses are not as good as the demon's, which likely puts them about on par with eachother CR-wise.


Bandavaar the Brave wrote:

...stuff...

Buster Sword (+3 Medium Greatsword) = +25, 2d6+13, 17-20x2
Tournesol (+5 Medium Keen Greatsword) = +27, 2d6+15, 17-20x2

...more stuff...

Feats Multiweapon Fighting, Weapon Focus: Greatsword, Combat feat - Double Slice, Power Attack, Combat Expertise, Combat feat - Two-Weapon Defense, Improved Bull Rush, Furious Focus, Combat feat - Two-Weapon Rend, Defensive Flurry (uses up 3 feat slots), Improved Critical (Great Sword)

Couple things I noticed, the Tournesol has Keen on it, with the Improved Critical (Greatsword) feat, you don't need to have Keen on it, replace it with something else.

The crit range on the Greatswords are wrong. Increasing from 18-20 it goes to 15-20, not 17-20. The range doubles, since at 18-20 it's 3 (18, 19, or 20), it goes to 6, which would be 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, or 20.

I also don't see anywhere that it states he has more than 2 arms, so Multiweapon Fighting would be Two-Weapon Fighting in your case.


materous wrote:
The crit range on the Greatswords are wrong. Increasing from 18-20 it goes to 15-20, not 17-20. The range doubles, since at 18-20 it's 3 (18, 19, or 20), it goes to 6, which would be 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, or 20.

...Except the normal crit range for greatswords is 19-20, making 17-20 correct.


Are wrote:
materous wrote:
The crit range on the Greatswords are wrong. Increasing from 18-20 it goes to 15-20, not 17-20. The range doubles, since at 18-20 it's 3 (18, 19, or 20), it goes to 6, which would be 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, or 20.

...Except the normal crit range for greatswords is 19-20, making 17-20 correct.

Whoops, that what I get for assuming that it was 18-20 to begin with and not looking it up. It just seemed weird to me, never saw the 17-20 range...

Silver Crusade

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Several Heightened Grease Spells on this guy's swords will RUIN his world.

Every time he attacks he will need to make SIX Reflex saves to avoid tossing his weapons everywhere.


Yea, I didn't type up that he had six arms as I assumed people would know, with the focus being so much on him having 6 attacks.

What I could do is swap the Keen ability from the +5 Greatsword (Tournesol) onto the Icy Burst Bastard Sword (Brotherhood) and make the Tournesol a +5 Brilliant Energy Greatsword.

I basically made it a +5 Keen Greatsword as a prize for the players, but yea, Brilliant Energy +5 Greatsword sounds awesome. :p

I made it so Defensive Flurry takes up three feat slots because using other Class Abilities as I see fit is probably cheating, even for a GM (haha).

He also had Improved Balance and Perfect Balance in my earlier build, but I removed them. However, if you think I should allow him to have Defensive Flurry as an ability and not taking up a feat slot, I could give him three more abilities.

Also, all of his at will spells are free actions. I don't think I stated that, but that's what I intended.

As for the gear he has on him, it is incredibly powerful equipment, but I've made sure he has all of the same equipment as he does in FF12. This is for flavour, but if someone goes around collecting awesome items and weapons, he's going to have some of those weapons and armours still on him, so I kept them on him.

Spell Resistance seems like a very good idea. Maybe instead of Favoured Class HP, I could give him the Sorcerer's Spell Resistance 1 for every Favoured Class level he attains.

I could also give him Uncanny Dodge (the Ranger Archetype disallows that, but hey, this guy is a monster afterall), see invisibility and some kind of miss chance, like a 30% miss chance, due to his ability to freely move around the battlefield with ease.

I'm not sure I want him to be immune to entanglement though, as I want this guy to be memorable and awesomely powerful (but not overwhelmingly so), but winnable to a party of 3-4 level 12's and above.

His offense is good and with no real PC capable of casting Grease effectively (the Magus hasn't once prepared it), it shouldn't be too much of a problem for him to keep hold of his weapons.

Boots of flying I don't want though, as he doesn't fly and I'm not entirely sure why I gave him Ring of Regeneration, so I must have forgotten about that when I gave him Natural Regeneration.

Loving the suggestions though, so please keep them coming! :D


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This doesn't resemble Gilgamesh at all... why would he have six arms?


Play Final Fantasy 12. :)

Gilly

There are thousands of Gilgamesh's. This is just one of them and nothing like the one you're familiar with by the sounds of it.


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Bandavaar the Brave wrote:
Also, all of his at will spells are free actions. I don't think I stated that, but that's what I intended.

Mmmm. Careful. The game is built on action-economy. As soon as you start throwing out creatures that ignore that economy experienced players are going to be... displeased. I know I'd be upset.

It's one thing for quickened spells (swift actions) for instance, but free? Not cool.

Quote:
I'm not sure I want him to be immune to entanglement though, as I want this guy to be memorable and awesomely powerful (but not overwhelmingly so), but winnable to a party of 3-4 level 12's and above.

Remind me again...

Roughly 15th level PCs, yeah? So access to 8th level spell slots. Three ability points, +6 ability magic items. Say starting ability score of 18. You're at 27. One feat that I keep harping on: Heighten Spell.

Put it all together and what do you have?

A DC 26 Will save against slow. So... he's got a 55% chance of having his butt handed to him on a silver platter after one spell.

But wait... there's more. A self-respecting mage should have got their hands on a metamagic wand of persist for just this sort of moment.

Know that 55% chance of being hosed? Yeah, well, as I love to say when using persist, "do it again". How do you feel about a 20.25% chance of success?

Your wizard stands a great chance of making this "boss" encounter a one-round wonder. 'Cuz even if he doesn't get slowed, there are literally dozens of spells that can shut him down by 15th level.


How about if I have it closer to the video game, where every time he presents one of his swords, all of his buffs bounce back up?

It definitely keeps him challenging and rules lawyers can't lawyer homebrew material.

He's also immune to things like Paralysis, Charm, all Charm and Compulsion Spells, takes half damage from ALL elemental attacks (including both Holy and Unholy). Things like that.

The complete list of his Final Fantasy Innate Abilities and Immunities are here:
Innate abilities Safety, Null Knockback, Null Evade, Last Stand, Counter Plus, Spellbound, Item Plus, Focus (a), Attack Plus (d), Shield Block (d)

If Perfect Defense - Paling & Magick Shield

Immune to Death, Petrify, Stop, Doom, Confuse, Sleep, Disease, Reverse, Disable, Immobilize, Silence, Blind, Poison, Oil, Sap, Lure, Berserk, Warp, Poach, Fractional Damage, Sight Unseeing, Syphon, Numerology, Charm, Achilles, Wither, Addle.

I'm also somewhat tempted to put haste on him, but gaining 12 attacks instead of 6.....well, is probably way too mean and FAR too challenging.

What do you all think?


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Bandavaar the Brave wrote:

How about if I have it closer to the video game, where every time he presents one of his swords, all of his buffs bounce back up?

It definitely keeps him challenging and rules lawyers can't lawyer homebrew material.

And that's where I'd leave the table. Well, honestly I'd take you aside and have a private GM-to-GM discussion. Here's the thing... one of the big deals with the PF system is that monsters play by the same rules that players do. Yes, there are monster abilities that are different from ours, but they work the same way. A standard action has the same "weight" to it for everyone.

There just isn't precedent in the system for "all my stuff just comes back".

Actually, what there is, is precedent that one thing can come back. There's a spell, contingency. The caster decides in advance what the condition is for the contingency, and what spell it will enact. This is a 6th-level spell. It isn't reasonable balance-wise to envision even an 9th-level spell that pops all a monsters buffs into being. And even if it was reasonable, it'd happen once.

When monsters start playing by rules that violate the standards of the system, it breaks my belief. I know I'm playing a different game than the GM is playing. My efforts work if - and only if - the GM wants them to.

Homebrew is fine. Absolutely fine. But it should be mechanically and systematically similar to existing material.

Quote:
He's also immune to things like Paralysis, Charm, all Charm and Compulsion Spells, takes half damage from ALL elemental attacks (including both Holy and Unholy). Things like that.

Not being familiar with the character you're trying to build, here's my only input on this. Immunities... fine, as long as there's a good reason for it.

Half-damage is unusual... creatures have energy resistance in Pathfinder. Something like "resist fire 20, cold 20, acid 20, electricity 20, sonic 20" would be reasonable and mechanically consistent. Someone manages to slam a 100-point fireball on him, okay... well, he takes 80 damage, and gets a Reflex save to reduce it down to 40. Considering a normal fireball caps out at 60 damage, getting 100 means a lot of effort involved.

What I do find... jarring... is the resistance to holy and unholy. I suspect you mean positive energy and negative energy. Here's the thing. If I were playing a pious character and found this out, I'd probably be upset. Let me get this straight... this guy - and he's JUST a guy as a 15th-level ranger - ignores the channeled wrath of both Good gods and Evil gods? Seriously? Not cool. One or the other is fine... he's got a patron deity who protects him or something. Reasonable. But both is thematically weird and jars my sense of justice.

Quote:

I'm also somewhat tempted to put haste on him, but gaining 12 attacks instead of 6.....well, is probably way too mean and FAR too challenging.

What do you all think?

Please, please don't take this the wrong way but... are you really new to Pathfinder / 3.5e? I'm asking because... haste doesn't work that way. Not even a little bit. Haste grants a creature one extra attack at their full Base Attack Bonus. So a creature with 6 attacks gets a total of 7. It absolutely does not double the number of attacks a creature gets. Ever. Well, unless that creature only gets one attack. And... they only get that extra attack during a full attack, which frankly if I saw a six-armed doofus coming my way, you know darned well I wouldn't let happen.

Between that misunderstanding (about a 3rd-level, very, very common spell) and some of the terminology issues elsewhere, I'm lead to suspect you might be new to the game. That is NOT a bad thing, and I'm not being critical.

What it does lead me to offer as advice is... wait. You have the makings of a great DM. You're enthusiastic and creative. HUGE. That's hugely important. But what you need is some more system familiarity before what you create will... mesh.

I would advise laying the story elements as you go through RotRL but leave the mechanics unspecified. Wait until you've actually run through the AP (which could easily be a year or more) and have become more familiar with how things work. Then... then take the Lego box of PFRPG rules and craft yourself a nice evil bad guy.

So again, not critical. Supportive. But trying to gently guide towards great success.

Sczarni

Friendly recommendation. Build regular monsters before you start building something like this and also, playing this complex monster would be highly difficult and slow.


Well, I meant using existing rules from Pathfinder, which is why I was basically asking for advice on how to convert them.

I'm good at making PC's. Very good at making effective PC's, but having not made my own monsters before, am not really sure on what I can or can't blend together, but as some of you above seem to think it's okay to add two-weapon fighter Class abilities to this build, that's ok.

Gilgamesh has 10 elemental spell reduction already from one of his Ranger Adaptations, but I can easily make that 20 and as for holy and unholy; No. It halves them like all other elemental attacks. It doesn't prevent it. It just halves the damage if I were to blend FF rules with PF rules on that front.

As for Haste, the simple answer is I'm not new.

The more complex answer however is that the highest level our parties have ever reached before other players or the GM got bored and decided to stop (majorly off putting, forcing me to now search for new people to play with) has been level 6.

I have NEVER used Haste. I haven't ever found an item that grants Haste either.

The build in my original post adhere's to the Pathfinder rules and I like that. I'm not trying to throw in my own rules, but where homebrew is concerned, I mentioned they can't rules lawyer that because this guy has abilities from multiple classes, as well as his own abilities which I have converted to Pathfinder.

As far as his immunities and abilities go, I have a lot more to add, but I don't want to go overboard, which is also why I'm asking for advice.

See, I thought he was a pretty strong enemy with how insane his attacks are, but now that I plan to read the rules and add in Spell Resistance, he'll have that on his side and with a few immunities (not all!), he'll be far more challenging.

I have three feats to add to him and have been using all of Pathfinders rules so far for him, so plan on continuing to do so and where that proves impossible, I'll improvise and keep them as close to Pathfinder rules as possible.

The point isn't veering away from PF rules. It's to stay glued to them!

Just needed to clear that up, but yes I'm ambitious and as I've done a good job so far for my very first created monster with no help, I'll add in some of the greater suggestions (defo on the SR) and see what else I can add, but yea, I'd just like more advice, that's all.

I like to stick to the rules as much as I can, even if monster creation counts as homebrew and you have a little more leeway to play about with things. I still need people to recognise the rules, but just want some of the abilities to be a surprise to them and I really want them to enjoy this fight!

@Malag - Yea, which is why I may change some into innate or natural abilities. My goal is not only to complete the build, but make him very viable and easy to use in combat.

A lot of his abilities come from how much HP he has left, becoming more defensive and powerful, the lower his HP gets. :)

Scarab Sages

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I suggest that you see if you can get access to some BBEG's in higher level modules and see how they stack up against what you are envisioning. For instance, Rhoswen at the end of a 7th lvl adventure is a 11th sorceress with a kickass staff.

To give you an idea:

The BBEG for a 14th lvl group has stats like these:

CR17 Half fiend + monster race Cleric 11

AC33 HP 256 Fort-16 Ref-15 Will-19 DR/10 immune to poison, resists are all 10 SR 28

This BBEG is at the end of a fairly rough, trap laden dungeon crawl where the PCs are assumed to be exhausting their spells, etc. The BBEG has several rounds to prepare (this can changes the CR, especially with higher level buffing).

The BBEG for a 16th lvl group:

CR 20 Sorcerer 6/Mystic Theurge 10
AC 51 HP: 378 Fort-32 Ref-34 Will-41 DR/10 SR 20

Has 9th lvl sorcerer spells and 8th lvl divine spells and is completely prepared for the party waiting for them when they get there, knows their tactics, etc.

One tiny observation, you seem to be focused on damage output and attacks. BBEGs at this level are about surviving and counterpunching. Any GM can build a BBEG that is guaranteed to take out 1 character, but you have to survive the party's ecomony of action vs your BBEG to make it to round 2 or hopefully 3. It is important to remember what resources they will have available to them though, to see through, neutralize, and counter most of your tactics as GM. Knowing the likely DC of attack spells aimed at him is important, so you can apply appropriate defensive levels.

I have to be honest, I have not played very much at this higher level, so I have been doing as much research on it as possible to prepare for my group's eventual arrival to this stage of the game. That is why I have been studying Paizo's BBEG's for comparison. Also, in listening to the Chronicle's podcast, I heard Neil Spicer talking during a seminar, and he mentioned the CR chart in the back of the Bestiary as a good benchmark for where your BBEGs stats, saves, etc should be. From what I am gathering, BBEGs should be about 3-4 CR higher than the party median, for a group of 4-5 players if that helps cross reference the table.


Hey Red!

Thanks for the advice. I've seen that the HP and AC are ok for my guy (in comparison to a Nalfeshnee Demon), but it's the SR and saves that are slacking.

I think Awesome Blow would be a good one. I mean, instead of a free Bull Rush at the end of his Slice Thrice attack, I could give him a free Awesome Blow that does not provoke an Attack of Opportunity. Seems to work better thematically than just a simple Bull Rush as he's bigger.

I know I've already selected Iron Will as one of my Adaptations, but that can be changed, so the remaining three feats I have could be Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes and Awesome Blow.

With Devotion and Iron Will my Will Saves would be 17, factor in +2 vs Enchantments from the trait and that's 1d20+19. Not bad.

Also, so I don't have to change too much, I plan on making the encounter available to the party at around level 12.

Gil and Enkidu focus on the same enemy together which could be nasty, but going from the CR table, the encounter will be CR16 (15 from Gil, 1 from Enk), so I guess it's doable.

I'd quite like to give him True Seeing, too.

As for Spell Resistance, I'll be giving him Spell Resistance 26 as I feel that's a fairly nice number, along with Elemental, Holy and Unholy Resistance 15.

If I wanted to be really mean, I could take the second Class Ability of Two-Weapon Fighter and make it so whenever Gilly Full Attacks, he gains the +5 Attack and Damage on each hit, but I feel he'd murder the PC's if I went ahead with that.

Note: THERE'S NO CLERIC IN THE PARTY. Well, there is, but he's not permanent and he's GM controlled by me, so probably won't be around in this encounter as I have him around as a temp support character when I feel things might get rough for the players.

I'll ramp his base speed up from 30ft to 40ft due to being Large and all, possibly giving him Boots of Springing and Striding. The Step Up Feat would be nice as well.

Taking the above into account, do you all feel happier with his abilities in Combat?

The idea is to have him Full Attack at all times possible, whilst flanking his opponents with his Animal Companion, taking them on one at a time. :)


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I still think the best thing you could do is to perform a playtest encounter. If you don't keep the PC's character sheets with you, try to get hold of them (or copy them) during your next session.

Playtesting the encounter will show you how Gilgamesh works (or doesn't work) against the characters he'll actually be facing. Some of the people giving advice here are doing so based on the PC's being optimized to some degree, but if your PC's aren't equally optimized, then enhancing Gilgamesh's abilities could wreak havoc on the encounter balance.

Any time you create something with homebrew material, playtesting is really the only thing that will show how it works in play (unless you have experience with creating such material, and even then playtesting will be useful).


Yea, I mean the PC's have only just gone up to level 3 and are still in book 1, but I've made two of the characters for two of the people playing, so they're fairly optimised. Not fully, but fairly optimised.

Currently in the party there's a Barbarian, Magus/Rogue and Ironman Blaster Wizard (he's about to come in next session). Brik's still with them (he's the Cleric with an AC that's practically untouchable, purposely made that way so he can remain alive to heal where necessary).

I'd have to level everyone up to about level 12 to see the outcome of this fight, so maybe it'll just be best to put him in at APL12 once I've finished with this thread and then he'll be a surprise to myself and the players.

Still, if there are only three people in the party then, it'll be a bit tight I'm thinking. The fight could go either way.

I was toying with the idea of having Gil appear multiple times as a recurring villain, but working every encounter out with his varying levels put me off that idea, because simply put, I have no idea what abilities he should keep at say level 5, 10 and 15.

Still, I think he should fight to the death and coup de grace his grounded and unconscious enemies, even if he has honour.


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Bandavaar the Brave wrote:

I plan on making the encounter available to the party at around level 12.

As for Spell Resistance, I'll be giving him Spell Resistance 26 as I feel that's a fairly nice number

Real quick math for you... a 12th-level PC is going to have to roll a 14 for his caster-level check to get a spell to work. That's a 65% chance of failure. Your wizard may or may not have invested in Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration by 12th level, in which case at best he's got a 45% chance of failure.

Basically 50/50 for every spell cast, with an optimized character. And 2/3rds failure for a vanilla caster.

When custom-building SR for my bad-guys, I generally anticipate a 50/50 at worst, and let the feats increase the odds in favor of the players. Simple reason is that you don't want to frustrate your casters.

Fighter types who contend with AC get a LOT of rolls. They have a lot of chances in a fight to matter. Even with a high-AC bad guy, some hits are going to register, leaving the sense of accomplishment.

A typical fight lasts four rounds. If your wizard player fails to penetrate SR three of those four rounds, and on the fourth round discovers his spell is partially resisted so barely did anything anyway, or worse... Gilgamesh is immune to whatever it is, that player wasted their time playing.

Hence my 50/50 recommendation. I'd aim the SR at 23 so a roll of 11 succeeds. Then if the wizard happened to invest in the caster-level boosting feats, he can get it down to success on rolling a 7; 30% chance of failure.

One in three is really reasonable for a bad guy to shrug off you caster's best-efforts.

Hope this helps.


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Bandavaar the Brave wrote:
I was toying with the idea of having Gil appear multiple times as a recurring villain, but working every encounter out with his varying levels put me off that idea, because simply put, I have no idea what abilities he should keep at say level 5, 10 and 15.

One way to handle this is... not to. What I mean is don't dumb down the recurring villain. If he wins at first, it'll just make your players that much more annoyed and invested. If he defeats them handily then lets them go, laughing at them... that's insult on top of injury. It also gives them a heads-up, so then can potentially plan strategies to cope with him when they try for revenge some day.

Basically "you are not worth my time. Go away in shame, worms."


Ah, thanks. :)

I think I can leave Enkidu the same as I've purposely made him weaker in comparison to Gilly.

Nobody I game with has ever gone for Penetrating Spell or the increased CL boost trait from what I'm aware of. The players are relatively new, too, so I help them build their characters, building them to 17th level so all they have to do is update their character sheet with each level.

Sounds reasonable though and as a Spell Caster, there's nothing worse than losing your spells. :/

As for recurring encounters, currently they won't have enough life to survive more than one of his attacks (only one if able to Crit), so maybe I should just get him to toy with them, using his swords to deal non lethal damage, taking the penalty in doing so for hitting them with the flat side of his blades.

Alternatively, kicking them until they're unconscious works, but it'd be a TPK off the bat when they hit level 5. I'm sure of it.


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A couple of other things I noticed:

First, the items of this duo have a combined value of nearly 550,000 gp (plus the genji helm, genji armor, and genji gloves, which I didn't try to figure out the value of). That is a vast amount of wealth (nearly 3 times the wealth of a 20th-level NPC, and equal to the expected wealth of an 18th-level PC).

If your three PC's are 14th-level when they face them, then each will double their individual wealth by defeating this single encounter. That's a massive increase.

***

The second thing was Encounter CR calculation. I saw you suggested that four 15th-level characters would be CR 56, but that's not the case. While one such character would be CR 14, you don't get the encounter CR by adding each CR together. Instead, each doubling of the number of CR 14 characters add +2 to the encounter's CR.

So, if you have an encounter featuring two CR 14 NPCs, the encounter CR will be 16. Similarly, four CR 14 NPCs provide an encounter CR of 18.

Perhaps the easiest way to determine encounter CR is by adding together the XP values of each creature involved, then comparing the total to the Experience Point Awards Table in the Gamemastering section of the Core Rulebook.

As you can see there, one CR 14 creature provides 38,400 XP. By adding another three instances of 38,400 XP, we get 153,600 XP, which is exactly equal to the XP value for one CR 18 creature.


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Sorry Redcelt... the imagined value is one of the focus group. If you poll a forum and a certain number of people not only disapprove, but are horrified, as a GM you could take that as a signal. It was put far more gracefully before me, but I am putting my oar in with that demographic. He's playing a different game than pathfinder when a GM pulls crap like this... and a GM's word and authority should be respected at his table, but this is not an invitation to abuse that authority simply because he loves his final fantasy tropes or lacks the style or dedication to make a fair challenge to his players. "He presents his sword and 12 spells go up" is downright silly... and his justification for why he should be able to is doubly so.

The best GMs can get away with anything because they know how to make sure their players have fun and they create a great story. How would YOU feel if your beloved character, an investment of hours of planning and cumulative days of playing (with your valuable leisure time) was destroyed simply because your GM is more in love with Final Fantasy's "Gilgamesh" than the actual game he's playing, his players, and the investment of care and effort placed by them in their characters?

That's the value of the post. I wouldn't give the OP the time of day at my table if he thought it was fair to pull crap like this. And while I'll fully concede I could have couched my point better -- it's enough to convey that players worth their salt say that this idea is awful and should be reworked in the context of the rules of THIS game, not final fantasy. Scenarios like the one described are best reserved as mental exercises. The rules are there for balance, AND to prevent some romantic notion of certain GMs (i.e.: "wouldn't it be great if I killed all the players with a homebrew version of my favorite final fantasy monster?!!")

The answer: "No, it would not."

When you also know you're practically wasting your time even voicing your objection (this guy is going to do it anyway) ... I'll spare the prolonged explanation and leave the more important point there -- Many players would see this as corrupt and uncreative abuse of a GM's powers.


Actually, if you bothered to read this thread properly, you would see that I care a great deal about the players and like the characters they're playing as, so want as much feedback possible to make a decent and challenging, but memorable fight for them....which they can win.

I stated this above and if I didn't care, I would have just thrown any rubbish out there for them to fight, but if you read the first post which has the build in, you'd be very familiar with almost all of the build, because I'm making this for Pathfinder, NOT FINAL FANTASY.

If you're a rules lawyer yourself (which would explain why you're so defensive about my single comment on combating rules lawyering), then yes you'd find my post irritating because you'd feel I'm taking your right away to pull up the rules every second, but it interrupts my game every time when one player who's usually the GM does it. The players find it annoying and so creating something the GM rules lawyer is unfamiliar with will prevent that and ensure the enjoyment of others...

I find your post annoying and offensive because no I'm not going to just put my own rules into the game. I stated above that I WANT PATHFINDER RULES ONLY, but SUGGESTED AS A QUICK FIX that I could make a FEW SPELLS (two at most - Shield and Lead Blades or whatever) go up when he presents one of his six Swords and even then he'd only do it when he loses a certain percentage of life.

I find it so hugely annoying when someone comes in and insults you because they didn't take the time out to read things properly or consider the feelings of others, before stereotyping you as somebody who ruins a game for others, when you couldn't be further away from the truth.

There was no need for an argument and this whole thing is childish, so to prevent it, in future can you have a little more common decency please?

Everyone else above you have been incredibly helpful, informing me of Gilgamesh's weaknesses and advising me on where to bolster his defenses. I'm working on doing that and using this thread as a way to get POSITIVE and HELPFUL feedback from level headed, intelligent and down to earth people. With how you spoke to me, I'd have preferred it if you said nothing at all, because to me it just looked as though you were looking to cause an argument. Trolling, if you will.

I'm making a fair but challenging fight for the players to enjoy and hopefully have their characters survive.

I also like Pathfinder a lot and have had my number one favourite character killed because of a random encounter roll, that the GM decided to bolster up past the recommended limit (12 Worgs vs a Fighter, Charm Cleric, full Cleric that has no Selective Channeling, a Druid and his Wolf). We were level 4 and I think they were all level 2 or 3 each, but yes, that resulted very nearly in a TPK, with both my guy and the Fighter dying, with the GM making sure the creatures coup de graced me on the floor IN THE LAST ROUND OF THE FIGHT, but choosing to ignore the other Cleric unconscious on the floor, then promising to run the game to the end, making me wait two months before I could bring in my "beloved character, an investment of hours of planning" in your words, fully, before having three of the party members die again, deciding he was bored and quitting in the week I was meant to come in.

That's a time waster and I'm not one of them.

As I have stressed throughout the entirety of this post, I'm creating a formidable opponent who can hold his own against an entire party, but will be a winnable fight, using Pathfinder's ruleset, which is also why I asked if it was fine above to give him some of the Two-Weapon Fighter abilities and only gave him the first one anyway. He dishes out enough damage...

I'm very considerate of those around me, so am insulted by what you've insinuated. Hence the long post above and if you don't like it, just don't reply or talk to me again. There's nothing forcing you to.

@Are - Ah yes.

I didn't state that four PC's would amount to a CR of 56 (adding them all together would be 60 anyway), but I've always been a bit unsure of the CR side of things.

A custom created character/monster with class levels is equal to its level, minus 1, which in this case would mean Gil is CR 14 and Enk is CR 9. That would add up to CR 23, but because you don't do it like that, when I compare the two on the CR Encounter table, it puts the encounter closer to CR 15 than anything else, so the encounter would be CR 15.

The only thing I'm concerned about is although a fair few people said they could solo him with a Wizard, with his Spell Reduction and other new defenses, would he not actually be considered a higher CR.

Like, would it not be fairer for the players to get more exp if they manage to fight him and win?

It's likely that a party of three or four level 12's would face him, unless they wait a little longer til they feel better prepared?

I've been playing for about two years now, but don't normally like GM'ing. It's just everyone's enjoying it and how I've been doing things, so I'd like to continue and just add a few things to make my game unique. Gilgamesh, being from famous folklore seemed like a perfect fit and I liked Final Fantasy 12's version the best, so figured I'd make a 6 armed fighting Ranger with favoured enemy bonuses, his Animal Companion and adding in some decent spells from the Ranger list, along with a few Two-Weapon Fighter abilities, mixed with a few special abilities and a few At Will spells/supernatural/natural abilities.

Maybe I should halve his at will spells per day, but from what I've seen, abilities like that go on your modifier, not half your modifier, so to me right now, it seems legit.

Then there's Spell Resistance. :)

@Redcelt32 - Yea, thanks for that. I discovered templates a while back now and ended up adding one to a Boar that was corrupted by evil.

I added the infernal template (if memory serves correct) and that threw everyone. Would have been nasty if I added that to a Dire Board for a group of 4 level 1-2 characters, so I just put it on a normal Boar. Worked a treat though.


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Bandavaar the Brave wrote:

A custom created character/monster with class levels is equal to its level, minus 1, which in this case would mean Gil is CR 14 and Enk is CR 9. That would add up to CR 23, but because you don't do it like that, when I compare the two on the CR Encounter table, it puts the encounter closer to CR 15 than anything else, so the encounter would be CR 15.

The only thing I'm concerned about is although a fair few people said they could solo him with a Wizard, with his Spell Reduction and other new defenses, would he not actually be considered a higher CR.

A regular 15th level human ranger would be CR 14.

Your Gilgamesh has a vast amount of special abilities that a regular human ranger doesn't have, plus a much vaster amount of wealth than a regular human ranger. So yes, he would definitely be considered a higher CR than a normal human ranger.

But it's very difficult to correctly estimate what that CR would be by just looking at numbers.

If you have some old character sheets of 12th-15th level characters lying around, try playtesting Gilgamesh as he is now against them. Playtesting is really the only way to correctly (or as correctly as possible) determine the CR of a nonstandard character.

Even the creators of Paizo's APs and Modules playtest their unusual encounters before submitting their work to Paizo, and they all have a great deal of experience with creating balanced encounters.


Ah, none of us have ever gotten past level 6 while playing a campaign, because if we've had a party from the start who all die, the other players all decide they want to stop playing.

I could however use the builds of my backup characters for future campaigns, as they go all the way up to level 17.

It just means levelling them down, but I have so many of them to choose from, each encounter tested would be different. Plus, I could easily throw up a Cleric and have him join in, testing how well a party does with and without one and to make things easier I could get my gf and brother (who will be playing this fight) to control two of my characters each.

At a guess, I'd say Gil with his Animal Companion helping him, may actually be CR 17 with his other abilities, but it may only be 16 really. As you say though, I won't know until I test them out on the battlefield.

In fact, at first I could throw level 17's at him, just to see how they fare!

Updates:

* Spell Resistance: 23
* Speed: 40ft Movement
* Swap Keen from +5 Greatsword onto +1 Icy Burst Bastard Sword
* Add in Awesome Blow with "Slice Thrice", instead of Bull Rush
* Make the Two-Weapon Fighters Defensive Flurry an ability, instead of costing 3 feats
* Give him three more Feats

Edit: Scrapped Keen altogether for a Brilliant Energy +5 Greatsword. Unsure of whether or not I should just keep it as a raw +5 Greatsword. He has no problem hitting, so Brilliant Energy is insult to injury for the PC's. Not cool.


Final build before playtest:
Estimated Encounter Challenge Rating: 16

Name: Gilgamesh
Level: 15
Class: Ranger - Infiltrator
Race: Large Human

Initiative: 7

True Sight

------------
Defense
------------

AC: 26, Touch: 14, Flat-Footed: 21
HP: 234
Fort: 17, Ref: 14, Will: 11 (15 vs Enchantments from Devotion)

With Natural Armour Adaptation:

AC: 28, Touch: 14, Flat-Footed: 23

Spell Resistance: 23

------------
Offense
------------

Speed 40ft
Reach: 10ft

Melee: Punishing Kick +25, 1d4+10 x2, bludgeoning - Uses Per Day: 3
- Knock Prone (DC23 Fortitude Negates)
- Knock Back 5 feet

Buster Sword (+3 Medium Greatsword) = +25, 2d6+13, 17-20x2
Revolver (+1 Medium Flaming Falchion) = +22, 2d4+11+1d6 Fire Damage, 18-20x2
Orihalcum (+1 Large Holy Dagger) = +22, 1d6+11+2d6 Holy Damage, 19-20x2
Brotherhood (+1 Medium Icy Burst Bastard Sword) = +22, 1d10+11+1d6 Frost +1d10 Cold Damage on Crit, 19-20x2
Zantetsuken (+1 Large Shocking Burst Wakizashi) = +22, 1d8+11+1d6 Shock +1d10 Electrical Damage on Crit, 18-20x2
Tournesol (+5 Medium Greatsword) = +27, 2d6+15, 17-20x2

With Power Attack:

Buster Sword (+3 Medium Greatsword) = +21, 2d6+21, 17-20x2
Revolver (+1 Medium Flaming Falchion) = +18, 2d4+19+1d6 Fire Damage, 18-20x2
Orihalcum (+1 Large Holy Dagger) = 18, 1d6+19+2d6 Holy Damage, 19-20x2
Brotherhood (+1 Medium Icy Burst Bastard Sword) = +18, 1d10+19+1d6 Frost +1d10 Cold Damage on Crit, 19-20x2
Zantetsuken (+1 Large Shocking Burst Wakizashi) = +18, 1d8+19+1d6 Shock +1d10 Electrical Damage on Crit, 18-20x2
Tournesol (+5 Medium Greatsword) = +23, 2d6+23, 17-20x2

Note: When attacking vs Favoured Enemy, the attack routine is as follows...

--------------
Favoured Enemy
--------------

Vs Magical Beasts: Buster Sword +33, 2d6+21, 17-20x2
Revolver +30, 2d4+19+1d6 Fire Damage, 18-20x2
Orihalcum +30, 1d6+19+2d6 Holy Damage, 19-20x2
Brotherhood +30, 1d10+19+1d6 Frost +1d10 Cold Damage on Crit, 19-20x2
Zantetsuken +30, 1d8+19+1d6 Shock +1d10 Electrical Damage on Crit, 18-20x2
Tournesol +35, 2d6+23, 17-20x2

Vs Giants: Buster Sword +31, 2d6+19, 17-20x2
Revolver +28, 2d4+17+1d6 Fire Damage, 18-20x2
Orihalcum +28, 1d6+17+2d6 Holy Damage, 19-20x2
Brotherhood +28, 1d10+17+1d6 Frost +1d10 Cold Damage on Crit, 19-20x2
Zantetsuken +28, 1d8+17+1d6 Shock +1d10 Electrical Damage on Crit, 18-20x2
Tournesol +33, 2d6+21, 17-20x2

Vs Humans: Buster Sword +29, 2d6+17, 17-20x2
Revolver +26, 2d4+15+1d6 Fire Damage, 18-20x2
Orihalcum +26, 1d6+15+2d6 Holy Damage, 19-20x2
Brotherhood +26, 1d10+15+1d6 Frost +1d10 Cold Damage on Crit, 19-20x2
Zantetsuken +26, 1d8+15+1d6 Shock +1d10 Electrical Damage on Crit, 18-20x2
Tournesol +31, 2d6+19, 17-20x2

Vs Orcs: Buster Sword +27, 2d6+15, 17-20x2
Revolver +24, 2d4+13+1d6 Fire Damage, 18-20x2
Orihalcum +24, 1d6+13+2d6 Holy Damage, 19-20x2
Brotherhood +24, 1d10+13+1d6 Frost +1d10 Cold Damage on Crit, 19-20x2
Zantetsuken +24, 1d8+13+1d6 Shock +1d10 Electrical Damage on Crit, 18-20x2
Tournesol +29, 2d6+17, 17-20x2

With Power Attack:

Vs Magical Beasts: Buster Sword +29, 2d6+29, 17-20x2
Revolver +26, 2d4+27+1d6 Fire Damage, 18-20x2
Orihalcum +26, 1d6+27+2d6 Holy Damage, 19-20x2
Brotherhood +26, 1d10+27+1d6 Frost +1d10 Cold Damage on Crit, 19-20x2
Zantetsuken +26, 1d8+27+1d6 Shock +1d10 Electrical Damage on Crit, 18-20x2
Tournesol +31, 2d6+31, 17-20x2

Vs Giants: Buster Sword +27, 2d6+27, 17-20x2
Revolver +24, 2d4+25+1d6 Fire Damage, 18-20x2
Orihalcum +24, 1d6+25+2d6 Holy Damage, 19-20x2
Brotherhood +24, 1d10+25+1d6 Frost +1d10 Cold Damage on Crit, 19-20x2
Zantetsuken +24, 1d8+25+1d6 Shock +1d10 Electrical Damage on Crit, 18-20x2
Tournesol +29, 2d6+29, 17-20x2

Vs Humans: Buster Sword +25, 2d6+25, 17-20x2
Revolver +22, 2d4+23+1d6 Fire Damage, 18-20x2
Orihalcum +22, 1d6+23+2d6 Holy Damage, 19-20x2
Brotherhood +22, 1d10+23+1d6 Frost +1d10 Cold Damage on Crit, 19-20x2
Zantetsuken +22, 1d8+23+1d6 Shock +1d10 Electrical Damage on Crit, 18-20x2
Tournesol +27, 2d6+27, 17-20x2

Vs Orcs: Buster Sword +23, 2d6+23, 17-20x2
Revolver +20, 2d4+21+1d6 Fire Damage, 18-20x2
Orihalcum +20, 1d6+21+2d6 Holy Damage, 19-20x2
Brotherhood +20, 1d10+21+1d6 Frost +1d10 Cold Damage on Crit, 19-20x2
Zantetsuken +20, 1d8+21+1d6 Shock +1d10 Electrical Damage on Crit, 18-20x2
Tournesol +25, 2d6+25, 17-20x2

------------
Spells
------------

Level 1: Dancing Lantern, Hunter's Howl, Resist Energy, Shield, Lead Blades - 3d6 for Large Weapon Damage

Level 2: Badger's Ferocity, Barkskin, Cure Light Wounds x2.

Level 3: Cure Moderate Wounds, Fickle Winds, Darkvision

Level 4: Animal Growth, Cure Serious Wounds

------------
Stats
------------

Str 30, Dex 20, Con 26, Wis 22, Int 13, Cha 10

BAB: 15
CMB: 26 (+1 due to size, 28 on Bull Rush attempt)
CMD: 41 (+1 due to size, 43 resisting Bull Rush attempts)

Feats Multiweapon Fighting, Weapon Focus: Greatsword, Combat feat - Double Slice, Power Attack, Combat Expertise, Combat feat - Two-Weapon Defense, Awesome Blow, Improved Bull Rush, Furious Focus, Combat feat - Two-Weapon Rend, Improved Critical (Great Sword), Combat Distraction.

Traits Reactionary
Racial Heart of the Wilderness
Skills Acrobatics: 10, Bluff: 10, Handle Animal: 18, Heal: 24, Knowledge Arcana: 16, Knowledge Nature: 19, Perception: 24, Survival: 31
Languages Common, Sylvan

Gear - Potion of Cure Mod Wounds x4, Potion of Cure Critical x1, 3000gp, Genji Shield, Genji Gloves, Genji Helm, Genji Armour, Brooch of Shielding, +4 Ring of Protection, +3 Amulet of Natural Armour, +5 Padded Armour, Greatsword x3, Wakizashi, Bastard Sword, Dagger, Falchion.

------------
Class
------------

Favoured Enemy:

Magical Beast - +8 extra Attack and Damage vs Magical Beasts
Giant - +6 extra Attack and Damage vs Giants
Human - +4 extra Attack and Damage vs Humans
Orc - +2 extra Attack and Damage vs Orcs

Adaptations (Lasts 10 minutes per Ranger level, per day):

3. Magical Beast - Natural Armour +2
8. Giant - Resist Energy 10 (Cold, Electricity or Fire - Use at start), Lunge
13. Human - Iron Will, Skill Focus (Handle Animal)
15. Orc - Ferocity (Use upon dropping to 40% health), Darkvision 60ft

Woodland Stride: Can move through overgrowth, briars and thorns at normal speed without taking

damage or suffering penalties.

Evasion: Take no damage on successful Reflex saving throw for half damage.

Quarry (Ex): At 11th level, as a standard action you can denote one target within line of sight as your quarry. Whenever you're following the tracks of your quarry, you can take 10 on your Survival skill checks while moving at normal speed, without penalty. In addition, you receive a +2 insight bonus on attack rolls made against your quarry and all critical threats are automatically confirmed. This creatures type must correspond to one of your favored enemies. You can dismiss this effect at any time as a free action, but cannot select a new quarry for 24 hours. If you see proof of your quarry's demise, you can select a new quarry after 1 hour.

Animal Companion - Enkidu

Companion abilities: Devotion (+4 vs Enchantments), Evasion (take no damage if saved against half damage reflex save), Link (can handle companion as a free action without Handle Animal) and Share Spells (can cast Ranger Spells with a target of "You" on your Companion).

----------------------
Copied Class Abilities
----------------------

Defensive Flurry (Ex): At 3rd level, when a two-weapon warrior makes a full attack with both weapons, he gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC against melee attacks until the beginning of his next turn. This bonus increases by +1 every four levels after 3rd.

----------------
Item Information
----------------

Weapons: 6 - Buster Sword (+3 Greatsword), Revolver (+1 Flaming Falchion), Orichalcum (+1 Holy Dagger), Brotherhood (+1 Icy Burst Bastard Sword), Zantetsuken (Shocking Burst Wakizashi), Tournesol (+5 Greatsword), Sword of Legend/Wyrmhero Blade (+3 Holy, Vorpal Greatsword) will be a weapon he has but refuses to use as it's his prize posession that he doesn't want damaged, so this will be the ultimate reward for the players.

Genji Shield: Although Gilgamesh doesn't use this, this is one of his valuable collections. Grants +6 Bonus to AC and negates Magic Missiles.

Genji Helm: Grants the ability to Counter Attacks - 10% Chance of a free Attack of Opportunity, due to the helmet's ability that gives the wearer heightened senses when reacting to danger.

Genji Armour: +2 reflex saves and triples the counter chance, given by the Genji Helm.

Genji Gloves: While equipped, you gain haste. If you wield one weapon, this applies to that weapon. If you wield two weapons, this applies to both weapons.

---------
Abilities
---------

Sleep: May cast Sleep a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom Modifier.

Slow: May cast Slow a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom Modifier.

Silence: May cast Silence a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom Modifier.

Disable: May cast Hold Person a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom Modifier.

Kick: As the feat Punishing Kick, but provokes an Attack of Opportunity.

When below 40% HP:

Slice Thrice: May charge and hit with three Weapons and perform Awesome Blow at the end of this

attack as a free action. This does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

Shield: May cast Anti-Magic field at will once per day. This lasts one round per level, or until dismissed.

Paling (Sp): Bolster physical resistance to negate damage. All Physical Damage is negated for 1 round per level. This is a Spell Like Ability and can be dismissed with a successful Dispel Magic Spell.

Fast Healing: Gilgamesh gains Regeneration 5.

When below 20% HP:

Haste: May cast haste at will once per day.
Swift Healing: Gilgamesh gains Regeneration 15.

Enkidu
Barbarian - Invulnerable Rager
N Wolf
Initiative: 6

------------
Defense
------------

AC: 22 (+5 Natural, +4 Dex, +3 Amulet of Natural Armour), Flat-Footed: 18, Touch: 14
HP: 147
Fort: 13, Ref: 7, Will: 5 (9 vs Spells, Supernatural Abilities and Spell Like Abilities)

While Raging:

AC: 20, Flat-Footed: 16, Touch: 12
HP: 167
Fort: 13, Ref: 7, Will: 7 (11 vs Spells, Supernatural Abilities and Spell Like Abilities)

Damage Reduction: 8
Extreme Endurance: Immune to Hot Climate Effects and gains Fire Resistance 3.

------------
Offense
------------

Speed: 50ft (Fast Movement)
Fly: 60ft

Melee: Bite: +15 (2d6+7 + Trip)
- In Rage (Adrenaline): +17 (2d6+10 + Trip)

Claw Swipe x2: +15 (1d6+7, 1d6+7)
- In Rage (Adrenaline): +17 (1d6+10, 1d6+10)

------------
Stats
------------

Str 20 (24 while Raging), Dex 19, Con 22 (26 while Raging), Wis 14, Int 14, Cha 10
BAB: 10, CMB: 15 (17 in rage), CMD: 29 (31 in rage)
Feats: Toughness, Skill Focus: Perception, Combat Reflexes, Extra Rage Power, Extra Rage Power
Traits: Reactionary
Racial Abilities: Scent, Darkvision
Skills: Acrobatics: 17, Fly: 14, Heal: 12, Perception: 18, Survival: 15, Swim: 18
Languages: Common, Sylvan
Gear +3 Amulet of Natural Armour

------------
Class
------------

Rage Powers:

1. Increased Damage Reduction
2. Renewed Vigor
3. Unexpected Strike
4. Increased Damage Reduction
5. Increased Damage Reduction
6. Superstition

Damage Reduction: 8
Extreme Endurance: Immune to Hot Climate Effects and gains Fire Resistance 3.

-----------------
Special Abilities
-----------------

Parry: May 5 foot step as an immediate action.
Last Stand: Works as Ferocity.
Adrenaline: When below 40% health, you gain the effects of Rage.
Fly, Enkidu!: Enkidu can fly by and swipe at his opponent for double his normal attack damage.

This lasts for two rounds and has a recharge time of two.
Now, Enkidu!: Flanks opponent on Gilgamesh's Command.
Eerie Soundwave: Grants Enkidu +1 atk and dmg for 1 minute.
Sonic Fangs: As the spell, Shatter.
Crushing Fangs: Bite that deals 1d6 Str or Dex damage (breaks bones - as the Bonebreaker feat).
Growl: Causes fear.
Lunge: Has reach.
Dash: Can double move and full attack, like the Pounce ability.
Petrify: Can bite an opponent for a chance to turn them to stone.

Wingover: As the Monster Feat.

Enk has Wingover now and Gil has Combat Distraction (will spend a round mocking or laughing at the PC's).

Silver Crusade

What stops the Regeneration 15?


Damage Output. :)

At that level, the group should be dealing around 15-20 minimum damage each and if they're all hitting him, whether there are three or four players, that'd be 60-80 damage per round.

After Regen, he'd still take 45-65 damage in that round. :)

Also, with his Paling ability, I'm going to make it so he can only use it up to a maximum of three rounds at any given time, with the charge rate also being three rounds. So, if the fights ends after a couple of rounds, he'd only have been able to successfully use it once.

Besides, it can be dispelled, so as long as the players are thinking, they should be fine. The only thing is, they need to get past his Spell Resistance of 23. :)


If something has Regeneration - as opposed to Fast Healing - they can't die while it's active. They need to take damage from something that turns it off, then be reduced to -CON in the same round before it turns back on at its next round.


Dispel as well then?

One Dispel could Dispel all of his active abilities, then he'd have to spend time throwing them all back up again, at which point he'd be pretty open to attack from the party.

I guess that's his weakness. :)

Other than that, Fast Healing 15 would be fine and less powerful than Regen, because I intend to have him drop when he hits 0, instead of having to worry about the minus hit points.


If it's a personal ability, I'm not sure how Dispel removes it. Dispel would only disable it if it's the effect of a spell on him.


Hmm, could Spell Like Abilities not be removed in the same manner?


Okay, so it's from an SLA, then yes it's a spell effect. I thought it was something innate to him, or granted by a piece of equipment. My mistake.


Yea, I think if he has Regen then I'd make it an SLA, otherwise it'll be too powerful.

Otherwise he'll just have Fast Healing 5 and when he drops to the lowest percentage I've stated, it'll bump up to 15 as an innate ability, as you've pointed out that Fast Healing is much easier to deal with and the way I envisioned it fits Fast Healing better anyway.

I always like that when you drop a creature down to -1 it dies.

Sczarni

Fast Healing continues even if creature is at -1 and can potentially get him back on his feat.


I didn't know that. I thought unless the creature has Die Hard or something alike, it loses all of its abilities once it hits 0 as it's considered dead.

That's the way I think my usual GM plays at least.

I guess it means he doesn't have to worry about keeping things up. What would you guys do personally?

Sczarni

What level are your players now?

Silver Crusade

Fast Healing heals a creature a set amount of hit points each round, but does not prevent it from dying if it goes into Negative Con.

Regeneration is like fast healing, however unless the regeneration is suppressed, the monster is unkillable. It can go to -100000 hit points and it will not die, and the regeneration will eventually bring it back up. Regeneration is usually suppressed by some effect. Trolls for example have their regeneration suppressed by Fire or Acid damage. If they take acid or fire damage for one round, their regeneration stops working for one round, and in that round they can be killed.

Very high level monsters have things like Regeneration (epic) which means that only an epic weapon (A +6 weapon) can kill them. Since epic weapons are always artifacts, they are very hard to kill.

The Tarrasque has regeneration that cannot be suppressed, meaning that it is unkillable.

My suggestion would be to give him something like Regeneration (holy) or Regeneration (vorpal) or something like that, so the players have a way to suppress it.

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