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Dwarf Fighter with 5 Charisma... asking for trouble?


Advice

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Lantern Lodge

So I planned out a Dwarf Archer/Fighter, with Cha as my dump stat.
But seeing it at just 5 Cha is seriously making me worried.

I pushing a stat so low a bad ideal?

Ability scores:
14 Str, 16 Dex, 14 Con, 14 Int, 14 Wis, 5 Cha

(Character is for a PFS-rules game.)


Secane wrote:


I pushing a stat so low a bad ideal?

If it fits what you want then go for it.

Personally I'd go for an even higher WIS score as Archers tend to ask for WILL save spells, even if they are short with beards.

-James

Sczarni

Not really...I have a 7 Cha Alchemist and he just has learned to suck when it comes to social encounters. There are LOTS of different ways to play the 5 Cha so pick one that sounds fun but isn't disruptive to the game and go with it. I personally play my low Cha as a cocky "I got this" type social awkwardness...it leads to a few funny anecdotes later.

The only thing you have to worry about is ability drain, but Cha isn't as popular as the other stats so it may not come up too often.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I am currently playing a Dwarf fighter with 5 Cha in a home-brew, and haven't run into any issues yet (except when he tries to be diplomatic, which is expected).

Generally I would say pushing a stat that low is a bad idea, but with Charisma, it is probably fine. You might get hit with Cha drain that knocks you comatose in one or two hits, but as ossian said, targeting Cha is not a common as the other stats.

Grand Lodge

You can invest in skill ranks later if you want - your Int does allow you to buffer out those penalties a bit if you feel its best to do so.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Be sure to RP that 5 charisma.

Do that, and no one will should give you a hard time.

The Exchange Marathon Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014, Marathon Voter 2015

Put points into diplomacy if you can. Get the class skill through a trait. Same for perception. That's my advice, both are over emphasized alot.

Star Voter 2013

Maybe a dip into inquisitor or cleric for

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor/archetypes/paizo--- inquisitor-archetypes/inquisitions/conversion-inquisition

Deities: Any deity.

Granted Powers:

Charm of Wisdom (Ex): You use your Wisdom modifier instead of your Charisma modifier when making Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks.

Shadow Lodge

Being a dwarven fighter is asking for trouble by itself.


Pugilist archetype! You've started many a bar brawl....

Grand Lodge

Just thinking your stats are great but not specialised... this could be a good or bad thing depending on who you talk to... personally for an archer, a 17 dex (to go to 18 at 4th) is probably the minimum you want.

Lantern Lodge

@ossian666 & Scaevola77,

That's good to know. Ability drain is my greatest worry.

@blackbloodtroll,

Give me IDEALS!!! Drunk? Always angry? Always SAD/Cries?

Nicos wrote:

Maybe a dip into inquisitor or cleric for

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor/archetypes/paizo--- inquisitor-archetypes/inquisitions/conversion-inquisition

Deities: Any deity.

Granted Powers:

Charm of Wisdom (Ex): You use your Wisdom modifier instead of your Charisma modifier when making Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks.

Sigh... its PFS... no inquisitions allowed. :(

@ Anyone

Does anyone knows if PFS games have a lot of ability score damages to Cha? In fact is there a lot of ability score damages being thrown around in PFS at all?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Secane wrote:


Nicos wrote:

Maybe a dip into inquisitor or cleric for

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor/archetypes/paizo--- inquisitor-archetypes/inquisitions/conversion-inquisition

Deities: Any deity.

Granted Powers:

Charm of Wisdom (Ex): You use your Wisdom modifier instead of your Charisma modifier when making Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks.

Sigh... its PFS... no inquisitions allowed. :(

@ Anyone

Does anyone knows if PFS games have a lot of ability score damages to Cha? In fact is there a lot of ability score damages being thrown around in PFS at all?

Inquisitions from UC are disallowed, but not UM. The inquisition in question is from UM.

First Steps has at least one ability damage poison, if that's an indication. Where there's poison, there's ability damage.

Liberty's Edge

Serisan wrote:
Secane wrote:


Nicos wrote:

Maybe a dip into inquisitor or cleric for

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor/archetypes/paizo--- inquisitor-archetypes/inquisitions/conversion-inquisition

Deities: Any deity.

Granted Powers:

Charm of Wisdom (Ex): You use your Wisdom modifier instead of your Charisma modifier when making Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks.

Sigh... its PFS... no inquisitions allowed. :(

@ Anyone

Does anyone knows if PFS games have a lot of ability score damages to Cha? In fact is there a lot of ability score damages being thrown around in PFS at all?

Inquisitions from UC are disallowed, but not UM. The inquisition in question is from UM.

First Steps has at least one ability damage poison, if that's an indication. Where there's poison, there's ability damage.

^^ This.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
blackbloodtroll wrote:

Be sure to RP that 5 charisma.

Do that, and no one will should give you a hard time.

Some examples from my dwarf:

Looks-wise (because Cha does influence appearance):
- has a lazy eye
- has a magical tattoo on his forehead that he thinks means "Brave one" in draconic, but actually means "waffle"
- in a bar fight a wizard cursed him so he only has half a beard, dwarves lacking beards are generally considered untrustworthy
- a drunken prank left his hair styled in double-mohawks, which he thinks is quite dashing

Personality-wise:
- is a dwarf who can't hold his liquor (one beer gets him acting like a roaring drunk, even though rules-wise he is not drunk yet)
- Has absolutely no concept of appropriate gestures of friendship (he comforted the traumatized cleric by sneaking up on her and wrapping her in an aggressive bear-hug and offered her beer)
- Makes a lot of perform checks (untrained) to sing drinking songs and/or dance, doesn't understand why people don't like his singing

He basically is completely oblivious on how to interact socially with anyone. Since my character is chaotic good, he ends up doing a lot of strange, well-intentioned things, and sometimes lucks out by saying the right thing.

Sczarni

Secane wrote:

@ossian666 & Scaevola77,

That's good to know. Ability drain is my greatest worry.

@blackbloodtroll,

Give me IDEALS!!! Drunk? Always angry? Always SAD/Cries?

Nicos wrote:

Maybe a dip into inquisitor or cleric for

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor/archetypes/paizo--- inquisitor-archetypes/inquisitions/conversion-inquisition

Deities: Any deity.

Granted Powers:

Charm of Wisdom (Ex): You use your Wisdom modifier instead of your Charisma modifier when making Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks.

Sigh... its PFS... no inquisitions allowed. :(

@ Anyone

Does anyone knows if PFS games have a lot of ability score damages to Cha? In fact is there a lot of ability score damages being thrown around in PFS at all?

I did play a Ranger that was always drunk for his Cha dump and I also played a guy with a Pharasma tattoo covering his face. Just carry alcohol around and blurt things out...just don't be disruptive about it.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

What generally happens seems to be this:

Your GM will try to have additional bother come your way for having such a hideous charisma, but will soon grow tired of doing so and eventually ignore it.

Congratulations. You are playing a 5 stat character with no downside.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Nah, you are fine. You are definitely not the life of the party.

Low CHA can mean a lot of things and can be fun to role play!

A few ideas:
You are ugly (which is what most people think about low CHA)
You smell bad - Never bathe, brush your teeth, or change your clothes
You have bad social graces (no table manners)
You have a speech impediment which makes it difficult to talk to others (perhaps a stutter or lisp)
You cuss a lot which offends everyone
You are afraid to talk to people
You are anti-social
You have MPD (multiple personality disorder)
You are bi-polar (nice one minute then crying or cussing the next)
Your manners in general are offensive or rude; farting, burping, having to talk to someone within their personal space like nose to nose, can't take a joke so you start fights easily (angry), or yes you are a drunkard.

There are numerous ways to do it which would be believable or

The other thing is that you are a DWARF, you get bonuses to saves verses spells/spell like abilities/poisons so don't worry about a low WILL save. If you are worried take the feats Steel Soul, Iron Will and Improved Iron Will to shore up that lower saving throw.

Lantern Lodge

I feel like playing a foul mouthed Dwarf... just worried that other players may find the RPing to be too much and get upset with me.

Balrick Granitefist wrote:


You have bad social graces (no table manners)
You cuss a lot which offends everyone
You are bi-polar (nice one minute then crying or cussing the next)
Your manners in general are offensive or rude; farting, burping, having to talk to someone within their personal space like nose to nose, can't take a joke so you start fights easily (angry), or yes you are a drunkard.

I SO want to be like that, just worried as above...


Secane wrote:

I feel like playing a foul mouthed Dwarf... just worried that other players may find the RPing to be too much and get upset with me.

Balrick Granitefist wrote:


You have bad social graces (no table manners)
You cuss a lot which offends everyone
You are bi-polar (nice one minute then crying or cussing the next)
Your manners in general are offensive or rude; farting, burping, having to talk to someone within their personal space like nose to nose, can't take a joke so you start fights easily (angry), or yes you are a drunkard.
I SO want to be like that, just worried as above...

Just let them know that you are IN CHARACTER and ask them to not take offense OUT OF CHARACTER, it's fine if their PC's take offense as that is what you'd expect with the role playing. Be adults about it and keep the communication open. It's that simple, they will thank you for being honest and let you know if you go too far.

Sczarni

Secane wrote:

I feel like playing a foul mouthed Dwarf... just worried that other players may find the RPing to be too much and get upset with me.

Balrick Granitefist wrote:


You have bad social graces (no table manners)
You cuss a lot which offends everyone
You are bi-polar (nice one minute then crying or cussing the next)
Your manners in general are offensive or rude; farting, burping, having to talk to someone within their personal space like nose to nose, can't take a joke so you start fights easily (angry), or yes you are a drunkard.
I SO want to be like that, just worried as above...

Just make sure when you do it that it isn't directly impacting how the story will move forward...don't be so foul mouthed and mean that the king kicks you out without the sword you came for kind of stuff.


I have a dwarf Bear Shaman Druid with a 5 Charisma. One of my most favourite characters ever. His bear has more Charisma than he does, and it's the bear who gets drunk all the time. The dwarf is just shy, soft spoken, is the straight man in their comedy duo, lets his animal companion boss him around in social situations (the bear knows he has to listen in life or death scenarios), and mostly spends his down time tending his grapes and fruit wines.

Best moment with him was when he tried to use Wild Empathy against some starving dogs, and ended up blowing the roll so badly he worsened their attitudes to the point where they both attacked him. The party ended up ribbing him quite a bit about the Druid nearly getting mauled to death by wild animals, to which he responded, "I'm more of a plant guy."

I dumped his Charisma for the RP factor more than the min-maxing, and never regretted it. He's not the ugly or unlike able low Charisma sort. He just has no presence in the room, no self-confidence to assert himself or his ideas, and is the ultimate follower.


Remember that at a 5 charisma you are only at a -3 to social rolls that is 15% less social than the norm, and taking any rank is a social skill that is a class skill makes up for it all.

So yeah roleplay the 5 charisma but don't go overboard it is not a huge deal. I've seen people play low int characters like monosyllabic thugs or like Lenny from Mice and Men, people over act a rather small penalty.

Beware charisma draining monsters, a party I was running through Slumbering Tzar got real messed up by flyby attacking charisma draining undead.

Sovereign Court

I have a PFS dwarf barbarian with a charisma of 5. He's a blast to play, basically I just act as though he has no brain/mouth filter.


I play my 8 Chr Dwarf as having no tact. He tells family members of dead NPCs flat out, has no empathy at all.
He also was attacked by a horse so now, he hates horses. Curses them and has punched a few. Sometimes they had riders...

Points out horrible plans in a no nonsense "are you daft man" manner...


The Human Diversion wrote:
...I just act as though he has no brain/mouth filter.

Just like me in real life.

Sovereign Court

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
The Human Diversion wrote:
...I just act as though he has no brain/mouth filter.
Just like me in real life.

Yes, but can you RP a very tactful, socially graceful bard?


The Human Diversion wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
The Human Diversion wrote:
...I just act as though he has no brain/mouth filter.
Just like me in real life.
Yes, but can you RP a very tactful, socially graceful bard?

Nothing smartass is coming to mind. I must be having an off day.

Lantern Lodge

Thanks for all the ideals! Now as long as my GM don't give me the evil eye for playing a char with so low a stat... This should be fun. :)


Would you run a Elf wizard with a 5 Con?

Liberty's Edge

DrDeth wrote:
Would you run a Elf wizard with a 5 Con?

If I was curious about what it would be like to have 5 hp at 5th level, I certainly would.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
DrDeth wrote:
Would you run a Elf wizard with a 5 Con?

Been there. Done that.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
DrDeth wrote:
Would you run a Elf wizard with a 5 Con?
Been there. Done that.

Go on...

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Sadly, the game did not last. :(


Umbral Reaver wrote:
Congratulations. You are playing a 5 stat character with no downside.

This.

Star Voter 2013

Hudax wrote:
Umbral Reaver wrote:
Congratulations. You are playing a 5 stat character with no downside.
This.

Penalty to UMD?


blackbloodtroll wrote:

Be sure to RP that 5 charisma.

Do that, and no one will should give you a hard time.

Yup yup. Try to be clever about it though. Interpret the deficiency in a new way. Adopting a persona is half of the fun of RPGs.

One of my low charisma characters loved talking to people, he just had a way of grating on them, and naively said awkward things. I've always wanted to pull off playing a withdrawn character, but i expect it t be without reward: unless you have the support of the other players, you'll just be ignored


PRD wrote:
Charisma measures a character's personality, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and appearance.

A character with low charisma has almost no personality, no magnetism, can’t lead and has a bad appearance.

Even if one of those point is not that bad for the character, the rest should be even worse.

It seems to me that an exuberant character is a character with more than average Charisma. That’s why gnomes have a bonus to charisma, they are exuberant.
A low charisma character should lack personality.

Dwarves −2 racial penalty to Cha is linked to them being a bit gruff. Low charisma dwarves probably have this trait exacerbated, making him impatient and unfriendly. He is probably easily influenced (Cha mod is used as a defense vs Diplomacy in NPC), but not necessarily easily bluffed (Bluff is resisted by Sense Motive (Wis)), nor easily intimidated (resisted by HD+Wis mod).
Without any rank in social skills, he’s bad at them. With good Wisdom (willpower, common sense, awareness, and intuition) and Intelligence (learning and reasoning), he’s aware of his lack of social grace.
Knowing proper etiquette is Knowledge (nobility). Knowing local traditions is Knowledge (local). Both are Intelligence skills, so bad charisma is not related to them. Of course knowing and following them is too different things.

Hope I helped a bit.

Lantern Lodge

So which do you all think is a better way to RP a 5 Cha Dwarf?

A bad-mouthing, speak his mind, heck care the consequences Dwarf?

Or

A break-into-tears, whines and cries, every time someone speaks to him kind of Dwarf?

And as for appearance...

I wonder, if being OVERLY CONCERN about cleanness and speaking his mind about it would be considered a reason for low Cha?

Example, "Oh hell! Look at that tunnel! Its FILTHY! I am NOT going in there! Why! We could get sick breathing in all that Dust!...."


I ran a dwarf cleric of Calistria as my first PFS character. 6 CHA as a cleric of a Lust goddess... Yeah, I played him as a major perv who didn't care for "personal space" His heals were gropes, his luck buff (the one that gives 2 rolls for every d20) where inappropriate pinches. He would always kill steal the big boss (first time was an accident, but it became a recurring theme with his big crits on his heavy pick), and always make ridiculous boasts that other would find irritating. Since his other domain was trickery, he would always have small pranks that he would pull that only he thought was funny.


I have an alchemist in PFS that I dumped Charisma. My first time to do that and it is because I figured that he would have a hard time convincing anyone he was worth talking to because of his stench from the chemicals he is always mixing and carrying around with him.

Might be easiest stat to dump but unless there is a reason then I don't dump. I might not raise a stat to 10 from picking something other than human (not something I am likely to do) as that is part of the class. Playing less than 10 Int is hardest thing when you don't get any skill points.


I'd say you could play him as a paragon of dwarfness.

Butt in at every opportunity. Refer to others as 'lesser races.' Invite yourself by insisting nobody does X better than a dwarf! Grumble a lot. A whole lot.

Also greed. Make sure you get your fair share. Make sure you don't help anyone free. Spend your free time with your nose buried in ledgers of party accounting.

Also you could be severely agoraphobic, since you've spent most of your life indoors/underground.

A lot of dwarfish traits that are not that endearing to others that help explain a low charisma.

Lantern Lodge

Rathorn wrote:

I'd say you could play him as a paragon of dwarfness.

Butt in at every opportunity. Refer to others as 'lesser races.' Invite yourself by insisting nobody does X better than a dwarf! Grumble a lot. A whole lot.

Also greed. Make sure you get your fair share. Make sure you don't help anyone free. Spend your free time with your nose buried in ledgers of party accounting.

Also you could be severely agoraphobic, since you've spent most of your life indoors/underground.

A lot of dwarfish traits that are not that endearing to others that help explain a low charisma.

I thought about going the all Dwarf route, but I was like... I use a BOW... I an ARCHER... that already smacks of non-dwarfness.

My character is like... Legolas and Gimli's Love Child....

Humm... racial confusion?!?! I'm going to play him as the confused child of 2 Dads! :D


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

My 5 charisma Tiefling Alchemist spoke in a matter that included needless heavy breathing, inappropriate emphasis on random words, intermittent pauses and groans, and peculiar gestures.
He/She would often, try to be diplomatic, but would be so abrupt and intense in the attempt, that he/she would offend or frighten those whom he/she was trying to befriend.

Luckily, we had a very sociable cleric to fix any problems.


Secane wrote:

So which do you all think is a better way to RP a 5 Cha Dwarf?

A bad-mouthing, speak his mind, heck care the consequences Dwarf?

Or

A break-into-tears, whines and cries, every time someone speaks to him kind of Dwarf?

To me, both could somehow also apply to an high charisma dwarf. It’s more how the others would react to those characters that would be impacted by Charisma.

In the first case, people would react negatively to low Charisma, maybe thinking “this dwarf should shut up, he’s tiresome.” In the case of high Charisma, it might become “this dwarf is funny” or “this dwarf always speak its heart.”
In the second case, it might be, for low Cha, “what a cry baby, he’s impossible”. High Charisma: another character approach and say: “I’m sorry to have offended you, what can I do for you?”

I don’t say they react differently to the exact same words, in fact the comportment, while similar would have differences, like choice of word, intonation, non-verbal cues, etc. This is indeed rather hard to role play I think.
After thinking about the question, I believe Charisma is more a react to ability than one that change the comportment of someone. It means players should inform others of their Charisma (either by telling their score, or indicating clearly that they are not convincing etc.) The other players (GM included) should react to it, especially if the player does not manage to roleplay his character’s Charisma (which is difficult in my opinion).

The war plan

Imagine your dwarf character in a group with a very Charismatic half-orc, who is lacking in Int and Wis. The party is planning to attack their main enemy in his manor. Your character think she will be waiting for you, with battle plan ready, a ton of trap etc. He start explaining to his companion, searching for the right words, his voice low, looking at his feet, his hand in front of his mouth: “We… well… probably should scout the area to know the size of the enemy’s forces. And maybe… *pause thinking*”. The half-orc starts talking with a strong voice, looking each member of the group in the eyes one after another, standing in a dramatic pause ”We should storm his fortress while she’s not yet ready. Too many times, she escaped us. Too many times, she killed our friends and family. Remember our dear fallen companions. We will march upon her with all our might and magic and will defeat her.” He brandishes the medallion of a fallen companion in the air and cries “Veangeance!”. He does it again and the whole group cry “VENGEANCE!” and march on the manor.

This might be a bit extreme, but it shows Charisma in action well in my opinion. On a table, the players might have trouble getting it all out like I wrote, because I had a bit of time to think about it. Even if the charismatic character plan is dumb and lacks common sense, and your dwarf is vaguely aware of it, he will probably roll with it. He will lack the word to convince the rest of the party, and he will also be a bit convince by the half-orc speech (because low Charisma is lack of personality).


Secane wrote:

So which do you all think is a better way to RP a 5 Cha Dwarf?

A bad-mouthing, speak his mind, heck care the consequences Dwarf?

Thd other is too over the top. But this one is still not good enough. Perhaps, when he speaks his mind, his mind is not clearly made known to the listeners, as he has difficulty communicating his thoughts.

Scarab Sages Dedicated Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014

Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Don't worry too much, but you might consider carrying a declaration confirming' (f)ollowing affidavits from the midwife and a doctor, I confirm that the bearer is, in all probability, dwarven'.

Seriously, he will not be very diplomatic, but it is as likely that he is too bland for most people to even notice him as it is that he is a repulsive bastard.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

For ways to incorporate the low Charisma score, see Ryan Costello's article Here.

However, since you're actually playing this character in PFS, I would warn that the low charisma is probably going to have a bigger impact than in a standard game, due to faction missions, etc.

Lantern Lodge

Majuba wrote:

For ways to incorporate the low Charisma score, see Ryan Costello's article Here.

However, since you're actually playing this character in PFS, I would warn that the low charisma is probably going to have a bigger impact than in a standard game, due to faction missions, etc.

Ok you got my attention! How does low Charisma affects faction missions? What is faction missions btw?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

This is, more or less, my 5 Charisma Tiefling Alchemist.

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