Can a Skeletal Champion CDG?


Rules Questions


There are two questions here really.

First of all, can you take a free action outside of your initiative count.

Second of all, can a Skeletal Champion use the Coup De Grace action to kill a helpless (paralyzed) creature?

I had an issue where a druid was wild shaped into a rhino and paralyzed in a previous round, blocking the corridor that they were in. Skeletal champion was trying to get past the rhino to get to its (the champions) master. I figured that as it had been told to protect the master, and the rhino was an enemy then a CDG action seemed to be in order.

Have looked into it, and it looks like Wild Shape needs a standard action to dismiss, which might not have been allowed.

On the CDG action though I can't find anything.

The reason for asking is that the druid was saying that if he dismissed the wildshape (allegedly as a free action) then he was no longer impeding the champion, therefore CDG wouldn't be needed.

Just wondering what others think about this.

Dark Archive

You can take an immediate action outside of your initiative count.

Coup de Grace can be used by a Skeletal Champion. (who is intelligent, unlike regular skeletons) It takes a full round action.

Wether or not the Skeletal Champion would know that the druid would revert to it's normal form when killed, I don't know. It might come dangerously close to metagaming.


1) No, you cannot unless it explicitly says you can. Talking does that.

2) Can beings of undying hatred for almost all things living coup de grace their enemies? I'd say yes.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

The only free action that can be used when it is not your turn is speaking, because it is specifically called out that you can do so.

Otherwise, only immediate actions and certain non-actions (AoOs, for example) can be taken when it is not your turn.

edit:(blasted ninjas)

Dark Archive

Today, I've earned my shurikens!


I would certainly think that the Skeletal Champion, being an intelligent undead, should be able to perform the Coup De Grace on a helpless opponent. Assuming no one else was fighting it at the time and all that was standing in it's way was a lone druid (wild shaped or not), I would even go as far as to say it would definitely take the opportunity to do so, possibly even saying something terrifying to the paralyzed tree hugger before performing the action.

As to the druid dismissing the wild shape: are they even allowed to do that when paralyzed?


@theporkchopxpress

Your question about dismissing the wildshape is the one I am most desperate to answer.

There was a halfling next to the druid, but the halfling was unable to beat the DR etc, therefore wasn't a credible threat (barring a crit)


Looking at whether you could change back while paralyzed, I'm not sure. While paralyzed you can take purely mental actions, but looking at how you can dismiss a spell you need to say a command word or a gesture. It is also a standard action, which makes me think that he couldn't.

As for CDG, I don't think it's something that's really tied to a creature's intelligence; I'm sure a hungry animal would go for the throat and start it's meal if it was desperate enough or didn't quite feel threatened.


-Jestem
I don't know if there is an official ruling on this or not. Personally as a DM/GM my answer would be that they can not dismiss the shapechange while they are paralyzed.


seams like a purely mental action to me though it is a standard action rather than free

prd wrote:
Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity.


I would probably allow dismissing wildshape while paralyzed. But standard action on it's turn.

Yes a skeletal champion can CDG.

{{ What was the skeletal champion armed with? Just his claws or a mace?
Do you realize how hard it would be to get to any actual vital organs for an instant kill on something like a rhino? Their skull is better than some old armor plate. The spine and major arteries are buried under inches of really tough hide, muscle, and fat. The heart is even further protected inside or tough layers. I probably wouldn't do anything because it is a game, but I would be tempted to not allow it unless armed with some large heavy weapon like a great axe or great sword.
There are documented cased of rhino's attacking trains, derailing the train, the boiler explodes, and the rhino walks away with large pieces of shrapnel imbedded in it's hide. Seemingly no worse for the esperience.
Of course in PF a medium level fighter can beat it to death with a club or a monk with his bare hands.
This is one of those things about any gaming system that sometimes really bugs me. But I understand that is what happens when simplifying. }}


Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:

I would probably allow dismissing wildshape while paralyzed. But standard action on it's turn.

Yes a skeletal champion can CDG.

{{ What was the skeletal champion armed with? Just his claws or a mace?
Do you realize how hard it would be to get to any actual vital organs for an instant kill on something like a rhino? Their skull is better than some old armor plate. The spine and major arteries are buried under inches of really tough hide, muscle, and fat. The heart is even further protected inside or tough layers. I probably wouldn't do anything because it is a game, but I would be tempted to not allow it unless armed with some large heavy weapon like a great axe or great sword.
There are documented cased of rhino's attacking trains, derailing the train, the boiler explodes, and the rhino walks away with large pieces of shrapnel imbedded in it's hide. Seemingly no worse for the esperience.
Of course in PF a medium level fighter can beat it to death with a club or a monk with his bare hands.
This is one of those things about any gaming system that sometimes really bugs me. But I understand that is what happens when simplifying. }}

Plus, it isn't a rhino, it's a druid. It's nothing like a rhino except in appearance.


Talynonyx wrote:
... Plus, it isn't a rhino, it's a druid. It's nothing like a rhino except in appearance.

Well, I guess that's true. I haven't seen many shape changing druids in PF. I still tend to think of them more like in 3.x

Grand Lodge

Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:
Talynonyx wrote:
... Plus, it isn't a rhino, it's a druid. It's nothing like a rhino except in appearance.
Well, I guess that's true. I haven't seen many shape changing druids in PF. I still tend to think of them more like in 3.x

Back when it was horribly broken?


blackbloodtroll wrote:
... Back when it was horribly broken?

Yup, back when it was broken (and I still couldn't seem to get it working well). ;)

Grand Lodge

I am glad that someone can say "I am playing a druid" without me groaning.

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