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I think that having a non-voiced character has always felt like a means of immersion for me. It allowed me to project as I wanted onto the character. I Hope they don't change that. Won't be a deal breaker though.
I'm the opposite. I always find it annoying when everyone in the game is talking except the main character.
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More music or remove music. I know music is a part of it but having to listen to 'Big Iron' for the nth time wandering the wastes drives one insane.
More music or remove music. I know music is a part of it but having to listen to 'Big Iron' for the nth time wandering the wastes drives one insane.
I know you're mentioning a song from FNV, but at least with DLC that game had a few different radio stations, with some slightly different song rotations. I hope they continue in that vein.
I like the in-game music radio though, and when I get sick of it (or need to stealth) I just shut it off. I think the ambient music itself could be a little more dynamic though, and that effectively might fix the issue if they can't afford more copyrights for more songs.
wasn't modifying the sound tracks one of the easiest mods for the game?
I know you're mentioning a song from FNV, but at least with DLC that game had a few different radio stations, with some slightly different song rotations. I hope they continue in that vein.
The in-game radio concept was interesting and certainly enjoyable (if repetitive in both). I think what I enjoyed was the announcer updates indicating what you had done - it got useless near the end-game, but there's a sweet spot of resolution to your actions that is kind of neat besides listening to the music.
And as someone has pointed out, in the trailer (at this point) you can spot a GNN radio sign in the bottom left. Wondering if 3Dog back again to tell us what is going around post-apocalyptica.
I hope so. I loved listening to Three-Dog's broadcasts.
He was a lot more opinionated and passionate in them than Mr. New Vegas.
While something along the lines of NPR might be interesting IRL, it' much less so in a video game.
Honestly, I feel like they just need more radio stations, like Saints Row or GTA, but then you have issues with it not meshing with the setting.
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If I'm not mistaken - 3 dog makes his return in this game (the actor was doing some secret voice work last year)
The other thing is- I do believe the vault dweller/character starts off waking from a stasis chamber. There was mention of that also (somewhere) - it could be that he was a baby or a young man at the start of the apocalypse, then his family all went into freeze sleep.
Again, this is mostly rumor management - but I do think 3 dog will return -possibly an older 3 dog.
While something along the lines of NPR might be interesting IRL, it' much less so in a video game.
Some sort of current events call-in show would be cool.
Even better: Coast to Coast AM
I hope so. I loved listening to Three-Dog's broadcasts.
I did too, though I'm wondering how/why he got up to Boston.
He was a lot more opinionated and passionate in them than Mr. New Vegas.
Well, he's an actual human being and Mr. New Vegas was an AI so that's appropriate.
(Though I liked Mr. New Vegas too, just for different reasons. I loved that they got the real "Mr. Las Vegas" to voice him.)
Some sort of current events call-in show would be cool.
That would be awesome--more interviews with other characters in the game, that sort of thing.
Three Dog can't be on the radio, because I killed him. Multiple times, even!
Mr. New Vegas was an AI? That's news to me. Was that discoverable in the game, or written elsewhere?
How about they get Ira Glass to do some This Commonwealth Life profiles of minor NPCs? Especially if the backstory given on the radio conflicts with what we learn when we actually meet the characters...
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Three Dog can't be on the radio, because I killed him. Multiple times, even!
Mr. New Vegas was an AI? That's news to me. Was that discoverable in the game, or written elsewhere?
How about they get Ira Glass to do some This Commonwealth Life profiles of minor NPCs? Especially if the backstory given on the radio conflicts with what we learn when we actually meet the characters...
I've heard the AI thing, but never seen the confirmation. Might be a throw away line you get from the NCR, or a surmise (if he said he was transmitting from the Lucky 13 or something).
Also, Three Dog is a sore spot with me. For my playthrough of Fallout 3, he'd constantly report on my resolution to the Ten Penny Towers quest (I plugged that a***** Roy), but 3 Dog kept harping on me like I gunned down a bunch of innocent puppies.
That quest kind of left me with a sour taste in my mouth, not the least reason being its the kind of false choice that the Fallout and Elder scrolls games like to give us.
Like, I can't argue that everyone but Roy gets in, or make a point that ferals aren't allowed.
Also, the way that Fallout 3 pouted like a petulant child around the time Broken Steel came out, if you didn't pointlessly sacrifice your life in the reactor room.
I've heard the AI thing, but never seen the confirmation. Might be a throw away line you get from the NCR, or a surmise (if he said he was transmitting from the Lucky 13 or something).Three Dog can't be on the radio, because I killed him. Multiple times, even!
Mr. New Vegas was an AI? That's news to me. Was that discoverable in the game, or written elsewhere?
How about they get Ira Glass to do some This Commonwealth Life profiles of minor NPCs? Especially if the backstory given on the radio conflicts with what we learn when we actually meet the characters...
I think there might be some dialogue, indeed as you say, from a passing soldier. The other confirmations are outside this game, such as this article about Wayne Newton doing the voice. The idea, per that article and the Fallout wiki is that he was a DJ AI programmed pre-War and still exists.
It makes sense anyway. He broadcasts 24/7 with no breaks, which a human wouldn't be capable of doing.
Also, Three Dog is a sore spot with me. For my playthrough of Fallout 3, he'd constantly report on my resolution to the Ten Penny Towers quest (I plugged that a***** Roy), but 3 Dog kept harping on me like I gunned down a bunch of innocent puppies.That quest kind of left me with a sour taste in my mouth, not the least reason being its the kind of false choice that the Fallout and Elder scrolls games like to give us.
Like, I can't argue that everyone but Roy gets in, or make a point that ferals aren't allowed.
That plot is horribly written, especially as it's obvious there's fishy stuff on both sides but you're given no option to deal with it. It's bad writers trying to make players feel bad by forcing them into a situation with no happy solution---but only by making them have choices that make no sense, and then effectively punishing you (by stuff like Three Dog's guilt-trip broadcast) for the lack of choice you didn't have.
To be clear, yes, it's life, and bad things happen in life, especially in post-apocalyptic life. But in life, I have a lot of choices--including let the status quo remain and walk away, or negotiate for halfway between (as in real life, few things are black and white, with one side being "wrong" or "right", much as we would often wish opposite). It's not "realistic" to have a killjoy plot when what happens is obviously forced and lacks any realism or verisimilitude or even just plain logic.
Also, the way that Fallout 3 pouted like a petulant child around the time Broken Steel came out, if you didn't pointlessly sacrifice your life in the reactor room.
What I don't get about Bethesda is that in Fallout 3 they built a game that in many ways was very obviously a sandbox, and then got upset when people who bought the game so they could play in the sandbox complained about being unnecessarily railroaded with a nonsensical, illogical plot. What did they expect?
This is why I worry about the voiced protagonists, if it means a much more plot-driven main character. Bethesda can't do plot. They're terrible at it. They're terrible at the idea of "choices with real consequences"--they think it means "let's badly railroad people into something that makes no sense."
(Tangentially, parts of Wasteland 2 had the same problem, oddly enough, like the Prison area. You'd think the original Fallout publisher could have done better).
I wish they would stick to their strengths--broad but not deep world building with lots of fun exploration and colorful background characters--and leave the plot-driven and character-stuff to other developers like Obsidian.
I mean, the world I see them showing in Fallout 4 looks like one I really want to see. I really want to explore the hell out of that world (and explore the hell that is that world). I don't want to have to fight cornball narrative all the way through just to get there.
But I recognize I may well be borrowing trouble. We'll have to see what happens.
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While I'd like (and to a degree, expect) better graphics and gameplay, etc., what I want is more Fallout 3 (and the super-expansion-pack Fallout: New Vegas, in bits and pieces at least).
If the game looks exactly like the Capitol Wasteland (only set in Boston), then I'll be perfectly fine with that.
That said, there are things I hope they improve on or steer away from--
-I prefer the 3rd person perspective of FO3 over the too-close TPOV of FONV, but I’ll be happy so long as it’s not the damnable always-in-the-way TPOV of The Evil Within
-I prefer the leveling system of FO3 over FONV, specifically the dual system over the binary system; only getting a new trait every other level was ultimately disappointing in FONV
-I’d also like to see a much higher level cap (like 50 or 60)—once I maxed out my level in FO3, I discovered just how rewarding the level up had been; I no longer enjoyed the game quite as much once there was no reward at the end
-I’d also like to see a truly open sandbox—both FO3 and FONV had multiple areas that were inaccessible without a hack or discovering an accidental glitch
-Why can’t I sleep in an owned bed? Especially if the ‘owner’ has died?
-Rather than simply disallow actions against certain NPCs, introduce weapons malfunctions, including misfires, hang-fires, duds and squib-loads
-weather effects—let it rain, snow, sleet, gust, etc. let’s have seasonal change and introduce weather effects against PC abilities
-Why can’t I sleep in an owned bed? Especially if the ‘owner’ has died?
That one has always puzzled me. Since they have "radiant" NPC scripting now (where NPCs have their own "day cycle" of walking around, walking, eating sleeping, etc.), I'd rather a function where you can sleep in any bed, but if an NPC comes home to find you in their bed on their sleep time, they will wake you up and boot you out (or attack you if they're jerks). If you sleep in their bed while no one's home and sneak out no one should be the wiser.
-weather effects—let it rain, snow, sleet, gust, etc. let’s have seasonal change and introduce weather effects against PC abilities
Hopefully since they had some weather effects in Skyrim, we will see similar in Fallout 4. Especially since while you can kind of handwave it always being sunny in the desert (even though that is also not true), I can't handwave the same for Boston. :)
Three Dog can't be on the radio, because I killed him. Multiple times, even!
They could either simply say that it's pre-recorded stuff from before his death, or canonically rule that he's still alive. Or was rebuilt as an android. Or had a twin brother.
There is a precedent for this, as the previous games all had to rule on what actually happened in FO1 and 2 (which both had many multiple endings), and it'll be hard for them not to confirm whether the water purifier was used or not in FO3 in FO4. The location means that what happened in NV shouldn't be too much of an issue.
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Yeah, Fallout 3's writing is awfully railroady
Like, why the f%+# Bethesda thought that ending were mutant immune friend to radioactivity wants you to go to chamber to die because its your destiny? And on dlc were you can send him there, ending chastises you for being a coward?(at least they realized you had suit immune to radioactivity :P)
Anyway, on the ACTUALLY awesome news, or at least rumors, there is rumor going around that Avellone left Obsidian to work with Inxile on Van Buren since they apparently obtained rights on that :o Dunno if that means they are going to make it standalone thing or got rights from Bethesda to do another Fallout sidegame, but whatever the case is, that would be awesome since New Vegas didn't even use most of original Fallout 3's material...
More music or remove music. I know music is a part of it but having to listen to 'Big Iron' for the nth time wandering the wastes drives one insane.I know you're mentioning a song from FNV, but at least with DLC that game had a few different radio stations, with some slightly different song rotations. I hope they continue in that vein.
I like the in-game music radio though, and when I get sick of it (or need to stealth) I just shut it off. I think the ambient music itself could be a little more dynamic though, and that effectively might fix the issue if they can't afford more copyrights for more songs.
I turned the radio volume to zero in New Vegas after the first day. The music really got on my nerves.
I left in on in 3, but only because of Malcolm McDowell. :3
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*Gasp*
Really? Shuuuunn.
How can you not sit with bated breath, wondering what will happen to the ranger with the big iron on his hip?
*Eye twitches and reaches for club*
Fortunately, mods for PC make expanding the music played easy.
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*Eye twitches and reaches for club*
Fortunately, mods for PC make expanding the music played easy.
..and he's thwacking and whacking and smacking and shellacking that meat...
I found the music in 3 far more irritating then the stuff in NV. I attribute it to differences in taste though.
Admittedly, Mr. Vegas was far less irritating then Three Dog as well, but that might just because Mr. Vegas didn't have the 'College Student with Fist Raised telling you to fight the power, man!' feel that Three Dog did.
I stated my hopes higher in the thread. From a thematic standpoint, I'd like to see less of the class warfare subtext that for some reason floated heavy over Fallout 3 and parts of Vegas. I'd rather we explored something else for a while.
Anyway, on the ACTUALLY awesome news, or at least rumors, there is rumor going around that Avellone left Obsidian to work with Inxile on Van Buren since they apparently obtained rights on that :o Dunno if that means they are going to make it standalone thing or got rights from Bethesda to do another Fallout sidegame, but whatever the case is, that would be awesome since New Vegas didn't even use most of original Fallout 3's material...
They have kept the "Van Buren" trademark.
but it could not be a Fallout game. Bethesda's fully got the rights to that. So all this means is they can make a game called "Van Buren." Per the article, Chris Avellone might work with inXile on whatever it is they want to do with it.
He has also, sadly, left Obsidian but I'm not sure, other than him saying he might help with this, if this is necessarily directly related. There's no news I could find that said he left BECAUSE of this, and he had already helped out on other inXile games while still working for Obsidian. (That indeed is really sad news for Obsidian, however.) He could have left for inXile, certainly, but I can't imagine it would have been a better deal given it's a smaller company.
As for Van Buren, I am not sure what they would use the trademark FOR, given they do not have rights to Fallout, and Bethesda has not historically been inclined to share. Wasteland 3, maybe? That would be a weird turn of events/going full circle, given of course the whole reason Fallout exists is because back in the 90s, Interplay didn't have the rights to Wasteland anymore so when they wanted to make a sequel they ended up with Fallout instead.
New Vegas borrowed a fair amount Van Buren's material (although what you define as "most" is in the eye of the beholder) including Caesar's Legion, the character Joshua Graham (although a different version), the Hoover Dam and other locations, the NCR-BoS war, and an early version of the lobotomites, to name a few things. It did have a different big bad (Presper).
That given, I'd fear anything they'd do with that would feel derivative even if it wasn't, technically.
Honestly, I guess it's what inXile is becoming known for, but I'm kind of losing interest in them in that all they seem interested in doing is rehashing old stuff and coming up with nothing new. I was excited by and backed Wasteland 2, but was disappointed by the result. We'll see how Torment is, I guess.
ETA: On topic, Chris Avellone seems excited about Fallout 4 at least. :) (Now if Bethesda hired HIM to write, my concerns about plotting would largely go out the window....)
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Eh, in case of Wasteland 2, people payed for rehashing the old (Fallout though since Wasteland 1 isn't really much like Fallouts gameplay wise), on torment they seem to be including mechanics from tabletop so that should be interesting if it works.
I'm not really sure how Numenera's gm intrusions and stat pools and effort/edge and other mechanics would work as video game mechanics :P The idea of spending points from your stat pool to do special stuff that is also your health sounds weird in video games xD
Huh. I liked the music. I even bought some of the music from ITunes
Yeah, the only New Vegas music that got on my nerves was "Johnny Guitar," just because it was so slooooow.
I kind of hope they decouple skill points from Intelligence in the leveling system, because it got kind of old having to invest 8-10 points in Int no matter what my character concept was. I'd like to be able to make a dumb character without ALL my skills being crippled.
I kind of hope they decouple skill points from Intelligence in the leveling system, because it got kind of old having to invest 8-10 points in Int no matter what my character concept was. I'd like to be able to make a dumb character without ALL my skills being crippled.
I was recently doing an Int 1 playthrough in Fallout: New Vegas (before Pillars of Eternity hit and then I got busy with other stuff). I took the "Skilled" perk which gives you extra skill points at the expense of experience points. This helps mitigate the skill point loss a bit. As in the game you can pretty easily level up and hit the level cap regardless (which is like level 50 or so) I haven't felt limited or depowered by the XP penalty... still actually been leveling pretty quickly in fact. Although I generally prefer playing a skill monkey/jack of all trades, I did find it a refreshing challenge to think about where I really did want to put my skill points.
If they use that or a similar perk that might help.
But I agree if it feels like you need Int to play it limits options (same goes for any given ability score).
If there are different factions, I hope they flesh them out better. The Legion in NV just did not have enough to get it past cartoonish evil.
Yeah, seriously. Even my evil characters say "F#!% the Legion" and I generally end up murdering Caesar when he invites me over and then toss a Holy Frag Grenade at the mob of people running after me and run like hell.
Though to be fair, FO3's Enclave weren't much better. Not a lot of good villain writers on either team.
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Yeah, seriously. Even my evil characters say "F$+! the Legion" and I generally end up murdering Caesar when he invites me over and then toss a Holy Frag Grenade at the mob of people running after me and run like hell.
Though to be fair, FO3's Enclave weren't much better. Not a lot of good villain writers on either team.
Enclave in 2 wasn't much better. The problem with the Enclave (and the BoS to a smaller extent) for the devs is that these factions if they weren't maliciously evil or hidebound could actually fix things relatively effectively and thematically I think they dont' want the 'old world' to be the solution to the problems of the post-war one.
The Enclave in 3's portrayal kind of bugged me. The Capitol wasteland is given the impression of a non-raider population somewhere in the low double digits (Talon Company seems to outnumber the entire population of the two non-slaver city centers alone). Frying everything that moves there isn't really that much of an unreasonable response.
Also their plan was...to activate the water purifier.
But damn it, we can't let the bad guys activate the water purifier, for some reason. They might purify the water before we can.
Also their plan was...to activate the water purifier.
But damn it, we can't let the bad guys activate the water purifier, for some reason. They might purify the water before we can.
Well their plan did include adding a chemical agent to the water that would kill any "non pure" human. Which was basically anyone who hadn't come from a vault or Enclave outpost.
I agree that the factions in 4 need to have more focus on their story writing that 3 did. I honestly would like to see multiple fleshed out factions in this game, as much as I like wandering around the wasteland discovering neat things I'd like to see some meat on the story if possible.
Its odd how Bethesda can make the Elder Scrolls games which are, for the most part, extremely heavy on faction based stories at least from Morrowind on, not have story heavy factions in Fallout.
Heck the Dark Brotherhood storyline in Oblivion was far better than the main story of the game. Get the person who wrote that quest chain working on the "Evil" side of Fallout 4 and it may turn out pretty good.
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Also their plan was...to activate the water purifier.
But damn it, we can't let the bad guys activate the water purifier, for some reason. They might purify the water before we can.
Well their plan did include adding a chemical agent to the water that would kill any "non pure" human. Which was basically anyone who hadn't come from a vault or Enclave outpost.
Autumn kind of flipped when he found out that this was the ZAX's plan though (I think he stole power from President Eden). I don't think he, nor most of the Enclave, was really behind this plan. Probably because putting FEV into the water is the kind of plan that only a crazed AI would think is a good one.
On my fourth playthrough of 3 back in the day I actually tried to think of what the Enclave's thought process were..
And basically it boiled down to.
"Man, this place is worse then back west!"
"Hey, someone reported that they're getting the water purifier back up, we should take advantage of that and make it a power base."
"The guy irradiated the control room?! Wtf!"
"Man, orange super mutants? This place has problems. We've gotta kill a lot of stuff."
"Oh crap, giant robot!"
Yeah, seriously. Even my evil characters say "F#+! the Legion" and I generally end up murdering Caesar when he invites me over and then toss a Holy Frag Grenade at the mob of people running after me and run like hell.
Though to be fair, FO3's Enclave weren't much better. Not a lot of good villain writers on either team.
I could never side with the Legion because of Nipton. In the long run, the utter contempt they held women in probably would have bothered me, but that first impression always results in me being vilified by the Legion, and using the assassins as a gear/caps delivery service.
I could never side with the Legion because of Nipton. In the long run, the utter contempt they held women in probably would have bothered me, but that first impression always results in me being vilified by the Legion, and using the assassins as a gear/caps delivery service.Yeah, seriously. Even my evil characters say "F#+! the Legion" and I generally end up murdering Caesar when he invites me over and then toss a Holy Frag Grenade at the mob of people running after me and run like hell.
Though to be fair, FO3's Enclave weren't much better. Not a lot of good villain writers on either team.
Yeah, they make being evil in Fallout so bad you have to be insane to join it. Its generally disappointing.
Yeah, they make being evil in Fallout so bad you have to be insane to join it. Its generally disappointing.I could never side with the Legion because of Nipton. In the long run, the utter contempt they held women in probably would have bothered me, but that first impression always results in me being vilified by the Legion, and using the assassins as a gear/caps delivery service.Yeah, seriously. Even my evil characters say "F#+! the Legion" and I generally end up murdering Caesar when he invites me over and then toss a Holy Frag Grenade at the mob of people running after me and run like hell.
Though to be fair, FO3's Enclave weren't much better. Not a lot of good villain writers on either team.
It has made me revise my approach to evil alignments in home games.
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It has made me revise my approach to evil alignments in home games.Yeah, they make being evil in Fallout so bad you have to be insane to join it. Its generally disappointing.I could never side with the Legion because of Nipton. In the long run, the utter contempt they held women in probably would have bothered me, but that first impression always results in me being vilified by the Legion, and using the assassins as a gear/caps delivery service.Yeah, seriously. Even my evil characters say "F#+! the Legion" and I generally end up murdering Caesar when he invites me over and then toss a Holy Frag Grenade at the mob of people running after me and run like hell.
Though to be fair, FO3's Enclave weren't much better. Not a lot of good villain writers on either team.
I think Yahtzee from Zero Punctuation summed this up as...
In the good ending, you're a virtuous flower child with love and a smile for all the shiny-coated beasts of God's kingdom, and in the bad ending you're some kind of hybrid of Hitler and Skeletor whose very piss is pure liquid malevolence. I'm sick of games that claim to have choice but that only really come down to either Mother Teresa or baby-eating.
They have kept the "Van Buren" trademark.
but it could not be a Fallout game. Bethesda's fully got the rights to that. So all this means is they can make a game called "Van Buren." Per the article, Chris Avellone might work with inXile on whatever it is they want to do with it.
He has also, sadly, left Obsidian but I'm not sure, other than him saying he might help with this, if this is necessarily directly related. There's no news I could find that said he left BECAUSE of this, and he had already helped out on other inXile games while still working for Obsidian. (That indeed is really sad news for Obsidian, however.) He could have left for inXile, certainly, but I can't imagine it would have been a better deal given it's a smaller company.
As for Van Buren, I am not sure what they would use the trademark FOR, given they do not have rights to Fallout, and Bethesda has not historically been inclined to share. Wasteland 3, maybe? That would be a weird turn of events/going full circle, given of course the whole reason Fallout exists is because back in the 90s, Interplay didn't have the rights to Wasteland anymore so when they wanted to make a sequel they ended up with Fallout instead.
Chris Avellone leaving for inXile does make some sense. Avellone is one of the best-regarded CRPG writers in the world, but Obsidian's development slate right now includes games where he is doing nothing (such as the new tank MMO) or playing second-fiddle to Josh Sawyer (on PILLARS OF ETERNITY and the forthcoming DLCs and sequel). I get the impression that Avellone and Sawyer get on and work well together, but Avellone would like to head a project for a change. And given that his solo-led projects (FALLOUT 2, PLANESCAPE: TORMENT and MASK OF THE BETRAYER) have gotten way more acclaim than the Sawyer-led ones (ICEWIND DALE 2 and NEVERWINTER NIGHTS 2 basic) or their collaborative ones (ALPHA PROTOCOL, NEW VEGAS and PoE), I can see his frustration.
inXile, on the other hand, are finishing off TORMENT: TIDES OF NUMENERA, are planning WASTELAND 3, are making BARD'S TALE IV and now have VAN BUREN in the planning stage, although I'm of the opinion they are more likely to fold VB into WASTELAND 3. Getting the VB licence I think was only important because of the core idea Avellone developed which he never got a chance to use, the idea of there being "other PC parties", controlled by the AI, going about their business in the world and you run into them and either collaborate or become enemies or rivals. No other game has really done that. With inXile I think Avellone might see more opportunities to do interesting stuff.
Either that or he's finally going to write some novels, as some people have wanted him to do for years. Avellone go-founded Obsidian and funded most of the start-up costs, so if the others have bought him out, he's likely set up for life.
It has made me revise my approach to evil alignments in home games.Yeah, they make being evil in Fallout so bad you have to be insane to join it. Its generally disappointing.I could never side with the Legion because of Nipton. In the long run, the utter contempt they held women in probably would have bothered me, but that first impression always results in me being vilified by the Legion, and using the assassins as a gear/caps delivery service.Yeah, seriously. Even my evil characters say "F#+! the Legion" and I generally end up murdering Caesar when he invites me over and then toss a Holy Frag Grenade at the mob of people running after me and run like hell.
Though to be fair, FO3's Enclave weren't much better. Not a lot of good villain writers on either team.
I think Yahtzee from Zero Punctuation summed this up as...
In the good ending, you're a virtuous flower child with love and a smile for all the shiny-coated beasts of God's kingdom, and in the bad ending you're some kind of hybrid of Hitler and Skeletor whose very piss is pure liquid malevolence. I'm sick of games that claim to have choice but that only really come down to either Mother Teresa or baby-eating.
This isn't really accurate though.
The second thing is a possibility, sure, but there isn't really a "good" ending in New Vegas. Helping the NCR is an iffy prospect at best, likewise the Independent New Vegas ending (which has the potential to be both incredibly good or incredibly bad based on both your character's morality and outside circumstances). The Legion ending is certainly bad for everyone involved though.
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Just watched the Bethesda showcase....one word sums up this game for me.
WANT!!!
And only about 5 months to wait.
Hah, holy crap. Fallout 4 looks great. I was wearing my skepticals when this game was first announced, but man. This game looks rad.
There is so much mechanical and stylistic goodness that I kinda don't care if it has the same level of FO3's black and white morality. I just can't bring myself to care. Too cool.
Oh, and since we're talking about New Vegas' morality (in my top five for games, you know), I'll chime in.
The way I see it, you have your factions and then your morality. Bad dudes can complete each of the four paths. Good dudes can complete 3 of the four paths (Legion excluded, obviously). I think they greatest thing is that, when you are evil, Independent Vegas turns you into an evil tyrant. If you are good, you are benevolent protector of freedom.
Also, the legion can go eat my nukes every which way.
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New Vegas' morality is terrible.
Murder someone? No problem.
Steal a bent tin can or god forbid TOUCH A MAN'S KEYBOARD? HOLY SHIT EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!
It's almost as bad as Pathfinder's.
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New Vegas' morality is terrible.
Murder someone? No problem.
Steal a bent tin can or god forbid TOUCH A MAN'S KEYBOARD? HOLY S!&* EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!
It's almost as bad as Pathfinder's.
Even worse, fiend and feral ghoul kills give good karma. I have a cannibal with almost 700 people eaten. Karma: good.
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I really hate the good karma granted from killing certain characters and creatures in FNV. Especially since nearly all of them you are pretty much forced to kill them out of survival should you encounter them, especially if they corner you--so it's not like you're killing them to do a good deed, you're doing it for the same reason you'd kill a cazadore trying to sting you to death or a Legion assassin out for your blood. The only karma gain that really makes sense in the whole game is the gain for killing Cook Cook. But even then you can do that simply for either self defense or to earn a bounty. I do hope the idea of good karma for kills is eliminated (it also personally denies my philosophy of what good karma is anyway, but that's just me). If nothing else it makes playing a neutral karma character impossible and you have to play a total monster to have consistently bad karma.
IIRC the JE Sawyer mod removes a lot of that karma gain and increases karma loss for certain characters' murder. Other mods do too, it's just notable that the lead designer on the game ultimately felt the same way.
The unreasonable hostility provoked by ANY form of theft is a universal feature of most games in those engines though... Elder Scrolls games don't have the karma system but an NPC will still try to stab you to death for accidentally picking up a bent fork in front of them (I recall a few times in Skyrim literally having an entire town go after me for a similar offense). The actual karma loss in Fallout 3 and NV for doing such isn't that bad, it's the people attacking you for it that, in certain cases, makes no sense. Likewise yes, it's the fact that certain kills or levels of kills don't affect your reputation (although IIRC if you have a lot of human kills in your kill count in NV, it does trigger some different dialogues in certain places, people remarking you're a known killer).
I think it is fair to point out that there's not really a good ending.... it's just varying shades of gray to monstrously black. And your karma can further influence the ending, as well as the factions you ally with (IIRC, the "best ending" in terms of things ending most favorably for the most people is good rep with Brotherhood, Followers, Goodsprings, Great Khans, and all the Vegas factions, good karma, and NCR victory, or Independent Vegas with upgraded securitrons--the only problem with the latter is if you let the BOS live, they harrass travelers, so with that one for an otherwise better future you have to destroy them). Although you can be a good karma courier who supports the Legion (trying to internally convince yourself of the logic of why is an issue, but it's possible in the game -- I think the idea is you accept the inevitable strength of the Legion and, understanding that Caesar's and Joshua Graham's original intent were good, in trying to unite and strengthen the tribals, you hope to change it from within, however vain that hope might be). There's also "worse" and "worst" options for the Legion victory, depending if you ensure Caesar's survival to the end.
Also, the most "evil" ending is siding with the big bad in Dead Money. :)
What I really DID like in FNV were the faction reps and general reputation and I hope they do something like that in F4.
I've played over 400 hours in New Vegas, finished all of the DLC multiple times (even Dead Money, which I despised), but I've never finished the game. I just don't like the groups enough to care.
I've played over 400 hours in New Vegas, finished all of the DLC multiple times (even Dead Money, which I despised), but I've never finished the game. I just don't like the groups enough to care.
It's worth seeing the ending slides to see all the ways your choices affect the ending of the game (which are very very many). If you've forced yourself multiple times through Dead Money you should be able to muster the patience to get to the endgame. Of course YMMV but if you've played it that much I'd suggest doing it at least once. *shrug*
I really liked many of the factions, personally -- less the NCR and Legion but more a lot of the townships and tribes I found interesting. I love the Boomers and the Followers, and I find the New Vegas factions entertaining. You don't have to like them, but I hope that my enjoyment of it doesn't have to provoke hostility toward me for having a different opinion.
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Elder Scrolls games don't have the karma system but an NPC will still try to stab you to death for accidentally picking up a bent fork in front of them (I recall a few times in Skyrim literally having an entire town go after me for a similar offense).
It gives a whole new meaning to the term "Fork you!'
I've played over 400 hours in New Vegas, finished all of the DLC multiple times (even Dead Money, which I despised), but I've never finished the game. I just don't like the groups enough to care.It's worth seeing the ending slides to see all the ways your choices affect the ending of the game (which are very very many). If you've forced yourself multiple times through Dead Money you should be able to muster the patience to get to the endgame. Of course YMMV but if you've played it that much I'd suggest doing it at least once. *shrug*
I really liked many of the factions, personally -- less the NCR and Legion but more a lot of the townships and tribes I found interesting. I love the Boomers and the Followers, and I find the New Vegas factions entertaining. You don't have to like them, but I hope that my enjoyment of it doesn't have to provoke hostility toward me for having a different opinion.
Certainly not from me.
I liked the Zion valley tribes, and the Think Tank more than any of the base game groups. Although the Boomers and Followers I like for nearly opposite reasons.
Probably my favourite faction in the base game was the Great Khans, but also the most frustrating. Both because you have to jump through so many hoops to get them to turn against the Legion, and also because I like their armour, but get shot by nearly anyone else if I wear it. :P
I'm sure I will finish it eventually, I just don't feel any rush.