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I played round 1 of the special. Some thoughts ...
I liked the special and the variety of activities. As has been previously stated, the sandbox and role-playing aspects of the adventure were thrown out the window with the competitive structure and time constraints. That significantly diminished the fun of the adventure and removes a lot of the effort the writers put into it.
Mustering at 10-11 I thought went as well as could be expected. We self mustered as many tables as possible, keeping real and generic tickets separate. It still took a long time to get seated.
When we got to the chase, one of the players said he wasn't feeling well and didn't do chases. He left shortly after that. GenCon was the first time that I have seen/played the chase card mechanics. In was in three of the scenarios I played at the con and it was run three completely different ways each time. I understand why the player doesn't like them.
I had a good conversation with Dan L. and our original GM later. HQ took extra time to check our score to make sure that we would get into the second part if we earned it. It turns out we had an average score and didn't move on.
Overall I liked the special but not the time constraint factor. It basically wasted a lot of hard work the authors put into writing the scenario.
-Swiftbrook
Just My Thoughts
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...letting GMs run it cold I think wasn't a good idea...
As one of the judges who ran the event cold (in fact, the DM of the OP), I somewhat agree with you. It was a complex event, and DMs should have been fully prepared for the module. However, given the circumstances, with the players not getting to play otherwise, and with them fully understanding that I had not previously read the module, it seemed the best option at the time. Otherwise, not getting to play at all would have been worse - since by that time, most 7pm slots were WELL under way.
I'll throw my two cents in on how my special slot went, as well as some suggestions further down.
Event Experience:
The special was the only Pathfinder event I was preregistered to play this year. I had two friends who were preregistered with me. I had two OTHER friends who were volunteers for Pathfinder Society events - one was a 'door guard', while the other was due to have his shift end at 7pm (but ended up working through the entire slot because they needed the help, and he was unable to join me).
Our initial group of three (which became four when we picked up a generic ticket holder) held off joining the call for real tickets, realizing that doing so might mean that we wouldn't necessarily get to sit at a table. Still, we wanted to sit with our two other volunteer friends. I manned one of the doors to the main room as a fill-in 'door guard' while we waited. I've run gaming conventions in the past, and I know how chaotic things can turn, so I figured I would help out as I could. I told one of the wandering marshals in the hallway that we had a full table of partial generics and partial reals, and whenever a spot opened up in the overflow hall, we would be ready. That marshal never came back to me, and before I knew it, there were a handful of other players with generic tickets around me, and one organizer stating he had room for two more real tickets at a table in the main hall, but that would be it - there were just no more DMs left. My two friends with real tickets went to that table, and the rest of the group of people around me (myself included) were out of luck. Of course, I ended up volunteering to run, explaining I hadn't read the module yet. The coordinator beside me knew me, and vouched for my DMing skills, and the group jumped at the chance to play - even if it was cold.
I won't give much away on the event itself. It read like it would have been a really fun module, if I was better prepared for it. There was a lot of detail on NPC backgrounds - a lot of meat for a DM to sink his teeth into. Bottom line, I did the best I could, and the players seemed to enjoy the game. They were creative in solving problems, and got into the role-playing. At the end, they all thanked me for DMing, and one player (intentionally or accidentally, I'm not sure which) left an extra wooden coin for me, so I was able to role for a 'special cert'. I didn't get to play (and therefore, didn't go on to the second round), but the slot itself went OK, and I made the best of things.
Module Thoughts:
As I mentioned earlier, it looked like it was a pretty good module, for the amount of time I had to look over it <grimace>. I am not sure if there was really enough time to get into the amount of role-playing that the module writer had in the event itself. This kind of event, with a hard time cut-off doesn't really suit itself well to getting into too many RPing angles. I might suggest trimming down the number of NPCs and their detailed backgrounds in the future, at least in each section - or give more time for RPing. Take that suggestion with a grain of salt - I might change my opinion if I had been better prepared.
I have no feedback on the second part to things, since I didn't participate in it.
Event Thoughts:
Pathfinder Society has always run a great special event at Gen Con. The organizers are always focused on players having a good time, and they listen to their player base.
For those of you who are mainly players, please be mindful of both good and bad DMs. If you have a complaint about someone, bring it up to the organizers - preferably at the event (although try to do it in a way to not interfere with other players). Dropping off a name of the DM, and what they did exceptionally well or poorly will help THEM know who is doing a good job, or not-so-good job for later conventions. If you don't tell them those stand-out issues, they won't know that the issues need to be addressed. If you don't feel comfortable with talking to someone about it, leave them a note. Last resort, send an Email after the fact to the organizers (complaints about specific DMs, I would suggest keeping to private Email).
Marshal Thoughts:
A couple of suggestions in this arena...
- Instruction Board - Have a board (preferably a few spread out over an area, so multiple players can read them at once) with some simple marshaling instructions. Perhaps an easel on a tripod (or three). It should have things like, "1. Please organize into groups of six players. We will be taking full tables of all real tickets first, then grabbing partial and full generic tables, if extra DMs are available. 2. Select one player from your group as a representative. Send the representative to speak with a marshal in the hall area in front of the main PS gaming room (marshals are the people in the purple shirts with the pathfinder goblins on the front). Please give them your average party level, and tell them whether you are a group of full real tickets, partial real tickets, or all generic tickets. 3. If you are unable to find a table of players to form up with, please go to..." etc. The board will help to spread the word about what players can expect, and what they should be doing.
- APL Zones - Post a sign or board at a spot in the hall where groups of players of certain levels can gather, such as 'Levels 1-2' and 'Levels 9-10'. This will help the players find each other more easily, making full tables of six players easier to accomplish. Be sure to include a note about this in the Instruction Board.
Conclusion:
Aside from the hiccups with marshaling and having enough DM, I think the event went well from my perspective. This is always an event that many people put a lot of man-hours to pull off, and even if you had a bad experience this year, please don't let that one bad apple spoil the entire idea of the thing. They are always tweaking things to make it better for all - be sure to give it a try next year. I hope to see everyone then (and perhaps I can play a few Pathfinder events as well <grin>)!
Tom Thowe
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First, a thank you to everyone who played. It was an unbelievable honor to be a part of the biggest PFS event EVER.
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I hope all of you enjoyed yourselves. Personally, I had an amazing experience, with two fantastically outstanding groups of players. And, if you did not, I truly hope that you are not disheartened. I hope you will continue to give your constructive remarks, and know that we will take what you say into consideration. And that Mike, Mark, the writers, and the rest of PFS will rigorously work to make the next special even better.
Of course you had a great time, you TPKed our entire group *cries*.
I was at the same table as Thefurmonger, so had about the same experience with the PFS Special...
First, I want to thank the many, many volunteers and Paizo staff who put in tons of hard work to pull off a huge slate of PFS events over the weekend. Round 1 of the Special was a great gaming experience. Intense, challenging, and fun. Thanks for running a great table Carlos and it was great to meet "Sebastian" and "Zennifer" - a real pleasure overall!
Round 2, as previously discussed, was not. I went in expecting something truly "special" but my experience was three hours of tedious puzzles, followed by a thrilling final battle, followed by a TPK via boxed-text ten minutes after the slot had ended. The puzzles were tedious because no one in the party had the requisite Knowledge skills, so it was a series of random guesses followed by annoying penalties for failure. Nothing lethal, but nothing fun. The final fight, on the other hand, was truly epic (even for our Tier 5-6 party). Before starting the fight, we debated turning tail and running, but ultimately decided to take on the challenge, fully open to the possibility of a TPK. Ultimately, we triumphed over the monsters in a deadly environment. Our GM hand-waved us through the steps to acquire the maguffin and then we started our way out only to be slowed by new obstacles. We were holding our own in this fight when time was called. Yay, we had survived!
A bit later, our DM comes back after turning in our score sheet and sheepishly tells us that we are all dead since we failed to exit the dungeon. The previously quoted text about a 15 minute warning was never provided to us and quite frankly I think our GM was as surprised as we were that we were dead.
Ugh. Pretty crappy feeling. I've been playing some form of the world's oldest fantasy roleplaying game at GenCon since 1998 and I don't think I've left the table more disappointed in the play experience. I trust Paizo will learn some lessons from this. I know I did...
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For those of you who are mainly players, please be mindful of both good and bad DMs. If you have a complaint about someone, bring it up to the organizers - preferably at the event (although try to do it in a way to not interfere with other players). Dropping off a name of the DM, and what they did exceptionally well or poorly will help THEM know who is doing a good job, or not-so-good job for later conventions. If you don't tell them those stand-out issues, they won't know that the issues need to be addressed. If you don't feel comfortable with talking to someone about it, leave them a note. Last resort, send an Email after the fact to the organizers (complaints about specific DMs, I would suggest keeping to private Email).
Actually, we don't have a good way to track that. The best way to address problems with GMs at Gen Con is to email Mike Brock. As the primary organizer for PFS at Gen Con he handles volunteer and GM signups for all the events. We're all very busy at the event itself, but if you drop Mike an email with your complaints about a specific GM I'm sure he'll keep it in mind when scheduling GMs for next year.
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We're all very busy at the event itself, but if you drop Mike an email with your complaints about a specific GM I'm sure he'll keep it in mind when scheduling GMs for next year.ooooh, can I send Mike complaints about myself? ;)
Dear Mike,
Dragnmoon was not nearly as big of a pain as I had been led to believe. I am extremely disappointed that I did not have this essential experience to Pathfinder Society. In fact, I believe that it is quite elitist that some people get this experience, while I, a happy-go-lucky optimist, do not.
Sincerely, Nani O. Pratt
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Dear Mike,
Jonathan Cary does not have enough complaints against him. I feel like this is an unfair advantage that he holds over other Venture-Captains. He is clearly bullying people on the message boards. I motion for him to be removed from his post immediately, and be made full-time HQ monkey.
Sincerely, Nani O. Pratt
Regarding the absence of a "15-minute warning": I was GMing way in the corner, at Table 1. The 75-minute warning and the 15-minute warning were both loud enough for us to hear them clearly.
Not so at our table...just the usual unintelligible murmur resembling Charlie Brown's teacher. And did these warnings say anything about "finish or die" or just that the slot was about to end? Very different messages.
To be super-clear, the "finish or die" aspect was a complete surprise to our table. I (foolishly) interpreted Sheila's warning at the beginning as an admonition against camping to regain spells, not the out of game time limit of midnight, or possibly some flavor-text to emphasize the one-time nature of this PFS scenario.
And since we spent the first hour or so waiting for a DM, how could I expect otherwise?
Venture-Agent, Ohio—Dayton
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As some background, I GMed the event at Origins cold and helped muster folks for the con. I know their pain as difficult it can be to wrangle all of you folks into one place, especially when people decide not to go to the table you tell them to go to or come up complaining about their table. It's a difficult job, and while I knew to enter with a premustered group based on my experiences, I think having a heads up for the players waiting outside and letting them know that actual tickets would get seated before generics would have been a help.
Aside: for the folks who didn't think to premuster their party, there were several folks yelling LFG outside, especially in the higher level tiers.
The module itself seemed like lots of fun, and I think I would have enjoyed it had I not had an absolutely terrible GM. I believe he was prepared to run our tier. I think. He seemed to know the mechanics well enough that he didn't come off as cold. I could be mistaken, but for posts sake, I'm gonna believe I am right because he reminded us repeatedly how much he disliked timed events, chase scenes, and the mechanics in the module.
Therein lies my first complaint. GMs, if you don't like timed events or special scenario specific rules, or organized play, DON'T VOLUNTEER TO RUN THE MODULE. Find some other way to get into the con for free and get your hotel paid for. For those of us who paid for a hotel, parking, con admission, and event admission, we had a lot invested into having fun. GMing is a hard and thankless job, but you're also technically being paid to be there to represent the organization, the con, and the product by providing a service to ensure the customer enjoys their experience and encourage them to spend more money on the product and events. If you don't like the scenario or event, it will bleed through to the players, as it did.
Aside: GMing was a complaint I heard from several participants not just in the event, but in general. Also from new players who were looking to get away from D&D4E. A Separate thread will have me critiquing rules lawyers who quote every rule except the first one in PFS; "Have fun!"
The event starts, and some of the scenario mechanics were not explained. Our GM spent a lot of time doing math, took long pauses between scenes, didn't do the correct math for our group. Despite appearing organized, he seemed very disorganized. We knew we weren't going to win because we entered with a competitive group who wanted to be goal oriented and win, and our GM's style wanted to not only encourage more roleplay in the scenario that may likely have not called for it (especially given the time limit), but also had several rulings and interactions that gave a distinct impression that he did not want us to win.
In much the same way people are complaining on here that they were killed by box text, our group felt that our GM wanted to do everything within his power to make us lose. There is a difference between not pulling any punches, and going out of your way to be as incredibly difficult as possible. There were moments where members of my party did the wrong thing. I accept that. What I don't accept is the one track mindedness of GMs to where we have to be psychic, find out what the GM wants us to do exactly, and try to accomplish that. From what I am understanding, the module presented a ton of details for the GMs to run with. We never really caught any of that. We struggled trying to piece together minute details and random guesses, only to have every plan we came up with blocked, and blocked without dice rolls.
Are there any papers around here that I can attempt to steal while invisible? "Yes." Ok, I'll move up and try to sleight of hand them. "They are in her arms." Oh, well why didn't you say she was holding them instead of wasting my time. If you're going to force the players to come up with all the details, blocking everything they do is going to send a message that they are clearly not in control of the game in any aspect, so don't be surprised when they shut down in the middle of the game and nothing happens because you don't give them anything to advance the story, and they stop trying because you are creating unnecessarily tedious challenges.
He would often times take a single action we would do and expand on it to put us in a difficult situation.
I walk into the caravan.
"You walk into the caravan, see an animal in a cage, you open it, and it attacks you."
No, I said I walked into the caravan. If I see a dangerous looking creature in a cage, I'm not going to try to hug it.
The part where I tuned out as a player...
When a friend was trying to tell him Imp to interact with the chief wererat, he asked if she had any distinguishing characteristics. "She's a wererat." We know, there are 7 of them, so is she wearing anything or carrying anything I can identify her by? "She's a wererat." By not giving us details, if the command was to charm a wererat, we knew he'd send it to another one since we didn't specify and the intended target, but we couldn't specify the intended target because our GM either loathed the thought of us possibly completing the scenario or didn't understand the meaning of the word distinguishing.
I am fully aware of the bitter tone of this post, but my experience in the event was not only one of the worst games I've ever played in all my gaming, but it's a shining example of the complaints I heard from the tables of new players I ran First Steps for, and from other players in passing. It's a problem within the community we're dealing with at the local level, and it was prevalent at GenCon; GMs who seem to be thrilled at the number of character deaths they rack up. They know every rule except for the first rule of Pathfinder Society; "Have fun!"
If we felt like we had tried our darnedest and fell short, none of us would have had a problem. We'd have been disappointed, of course. No one likes to lose. When it became apparent after 2 hours of the session that we didn't stand a chance, the majority of us checked out mentally of the game. Regardless of win or lose, when your players walk away from the table upset, feeling cheated, or regret playing the game, you failed as a GM.
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Dear Mike,
Jonathan Cary does not have enough complaints against him. I feel like this is an unfair advantage that he holds over other Venture-Captains. He is clearly bullying people on the message boards. I motion for him to be removed from his post immediately, and be made full-time HQ monkey.
Sincerely, Nani O. Pratt
I'm already full-time HQ monkey.
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I got to play Part 1, not Part 2. Our group did awesome, our GM was awesome. We all had a great time, and I was surprised we didn't score high enough to play Part 2. Mustering took awhile, but our mixed table of real tickets and generics got seated when we could, in overflow.
In my opinion, there were too many objectives in the 2 hour free-pl
ay, so we rushed through a lot of gaming that could have been more fun. If we had less objectives to thwart, we could have planned to spend more time on each, and play through them at an enjoyable pace. I'm not a huge fan of the chase mechanic, I think a lot of the skill targets are too high, it hurts to be a cleric or fighter during those. My ranger did alright in this one though.
I'll echo a previous poster - I think the special should be more focused on cooperation rather than competition. I'm surprised that people don't see this as a goal when creating the event. I played Year of the Shadow Lodge, it was my favorite special so far, and it really seemed to have the pathfinders working together. This one, I'm not really sure why my group's coins didn't contribute to the PFS bidding. It seems easy to convert that auction to a cooperative experience. The auction itself was funny, nice monolog, speech, and twist.
Anyway, Part 1 wasn't my favorite but it was a good time and I'm glad I got to attend. I'm glad I didn't play for Part 2, partially because of the posts here but also I got to play a super fun God's Market Gamble. I'm waiting for that event to be recorded, to thank that GM for a great time. Also I'd like to thank all the volunteers during the con, you guys work hard and we appreciate it.
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I'm already full-time HQ monkey.Dear Mike,
Jonathan Cary does not have enough complaints against him. I feel like this is an unfair advantage that he holds over other Venture-Captains. He is clearly bullying people on the message boards. I motion for him to be removed from his post immediately, and be made full-time HQ monkey.
Sincerely, Nani O. Pratt
Um, I don't see you signed up for Dragon*Con HQ. I don't think 4 days at Gencon counts as full time. Chop chop!!!
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I gmed part 1 for a 5-6 table that was fairly well balanced, but not fully premustered.
I thought that this wa a great adventure and my party did very well, although not well enough to move to round two. They did get through two waves at the end, as a general gauge if their success. More importantly, we had a blast. RP, hack n slash, skills, creativity and plenty of action.
Personally, I spent about 3.5 hours prepping this scenario...at least. Once I had run it, I wished I had spent another hour. It was DENSE wuth stuff. Any tables with underprepared GMs would have had a suboptimal experience, but better than missing it altogether. My hat is off to all who stepped up last minute to run this beast cold.
I know that the team learned things that will help us run smoother in the future. It is no easy task to manage events of this size. For my part, it would be great to at least narrow down which tier you might run, to help focus prep.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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On Friday morning, when I had a slot open, I went to the Marriott and took the "Game Master 101" course. (I GM a lot. That doesn't make me very good at it; I still have a lot to learn.) Part of the course is about emergency situations, how to GM a scenario cold, or with very limited prep time.
The qualifications for reaching 5-star status include GMing 50 different scenarios. To main the status, I'm going to have to run 10 Season 4 scenarios this coming year. That is to say, Pathfinder Society places greater value on running a lot of different scenarios, than on running a few over and over.
From those two data, I could conclude that PFS may be sending a signal, that it's all right to GM with minimum prep work. I think this attitude is a mistake. (And I know Mike doesn't actually agree to it; that's why each GM had only two or three different scenarios to prepare for the convention. Compare that to Origins, where a GM could have to prep eight different adventures.)
Mike, you asked some GMs to run Round 1 of the Special cold. If I hadn't already prepped the adventure, if you'd have asked me to run it without much more than a quick over-read, I would have declined. I wouldn't feel right, giving such an important event anything less than my best work. I feel even more strongly about Round 2.
Repeatedly, people have written in this thread that playing the Special with an unprepared GM was preferable than not playing it at all. Do you folks really feel that way? Even when an unprepared GM, skimming over a line, can misinterpret the conditions and kill the party?
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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I know that the team learned things that will help us run smoother in the future. It is no easy task to manage events of this size. For my part, it would be great to at least narrow down which tier you might run, to help focus prep.
Oh, that's just the start. Facilitate pre-mustering; encourage GMs to be at the table early; expect GM no-shows; provide *all* material a GM needs (this includes stat blocks for monsters with the templates already applied; I've seen at least one complaint that time was wasted at the table when a last-minute GM had to do this); don't guarantee last-minute walk-ins seats at a table that goes on to part 2 (maybe even run those extra tables in a separate, overflow area).
But, above all, START ON TIME.
EDIT: And clone Mike Brock - he's doing at least three people's work
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I'd like to leave my comments. Overall we had a blast.
My partner and I are newish to pfs. We've done some home games and played both specials that were ran at origins this year.
Part 1-
We got to our muster station after I thought about checking the big board. Both my partner and I had lvl 2 characters so we headed to the station. After a couple of mins I saw a woman with a clipboard who was doing her best to help people out. After verify paying we had event tickets she pointed us at a group that needed two more people and we were good to go. We were sitting in the far right of the room.
Part 1 went well. We really enjoyed the module but we could tell the GM wasn't fully prepared, but he was trying as hard as he could. The biggest problem we had was announcements from the center of the room sounded like Charlie brown adult voices. We could understand every third word or so.
It would have been nice to rp more, but I learned at the origins specials that time is critical and in specials sometimes it's about being fast.
The only part that felt long was the waves of combats at the end, but that maybe because the event was running over the time slot, and I was exhausted from the day.
Part 2-
So the next day we found out to our surprise we got into part 2. The whole table returned and we were told our table and we sat down. Our GM showed up shortly and quickly setup. He was even prepared when we told him that two of the characters had leveled to 3 from the previous night's game. He checked the average and said wasn't a problem and was prepared for the next tier up. He later told us he was a 4 star GM, and definitely proved that he deserves those stars. The biggest problem was their was so much ambient noise it was difficult to hear the DM.
Rather than detail the module we got decimated in the middle puzzle fight and chose running away was the smarter option. We didn't loose anyone thanks to the quick thinking Druid with a summoned ape. We left the dungeon with 15 min left till the end. Come to find out that was a smart choice.
Many of us were newish players and we had a blast. The only things I can suggest is if you have that big of a room you need to work out the noise issues specifically the announcements not being understandable, and some details at the muster stations on how the process should work would be usefull.
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don't guarantee last-minute walk-ins seats at a table that goes on to part 2 (maybe even run those extra tables in a separate, overflow area).
We had 12 tables of overflow in a separate area. The even organizers wanted everyone to be able to contribute to the results of the event. Would it be better to tell them, "You get to play, but your efforts don't matter to the overall results," instead?
But, above all, START ON TIME.
I would love to. If you can tell me a way to guarantee that we can organize 600+ players and GMs into tiered tables in 30 minutes or less with just 8 muster areas, I would be infinitely grateful.
That said, I do have some ideas for making it better next year, including making sure I implement processes that I used successfully in 2011 for mustering the Special and that I apparently forgot this year. I'm not claiming that it will be perfect, but I'll do my best to make it noticeably better. I'm sure there will be additional problems that we haven't forseen, and we'll have to find solutions to those as well.
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don't guarantee last-minute walk-ins seats at a table that goes on to part 2 (maybe even run those extra tables in a separate, overflow area).We had 12 tables of overflow in a separate area. The even organizers wanted everyone to be able to contribute to the results of the event. Would it be better to tell them, "You get to play, but your efforts don't matter to the overall results," instead?
But, above all, START ON TIME.I would love to. If you can tell me a way to guarantee that we can organize 600+ players and GMs into tiered tables in 30 minutes or less with just 8 muster areas, I would be infinitely grateful.
That said, I do have some ideas for making it better next year, including making sure I implement processes that I used successfully in 2011 for mustering the Special and that I apparently forgot this year. I'm not claiming that it will be perfect, but I'll do my best to make it noticeably better. I'm sure there will be additional problems that we haven't forseen, and we'll have to find solutions to those as well.
I think most logical people can understand the conundrum. Its tough. There are no real answers.
The only one I can think of that really solves the problem is this...
If it is going to be a competition, and timed, and timing can matter for scoring purposes, don't let anyone start the scenario until everyone playing that scenario is seated. Clean and simple solution.
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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If you can tell me a way to guarantee that we can organize 600+ players and GMs into tiered tables in 30 minutes or less with just 8 muster areas, I would be infinitely grateful.
If you can't guarantee that (and I don't think anyone can), either reduce the size of the problem by getting as many of the people as possible pre-mustered (perhaps open a desk where people can drop off tier requests ahead of time, especially if they can provide a full table), or give yourself a little more time and schedule an extra 30 minutes before the start. Oh, and set the GM deadline 20 minutes before that for players.
All setting yourself an impossible task does is guarantee failure. Don't misunderstand me - I'm amazed you managed as much as you did under constantly-changing conditions. But the best way to solve a problem is to avoid it, and I think there is more that could be done there.
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This is the first Gen Con I been to and I am torn.
I had a generic ticket, so I was the last to be seated on a 5-6 and our GM played cold, and he was a train wreck. Not because he was running it cold but his poor understanding of rules and horribly inappropriate comments through out the scenario, with such statements as "Oh too bad I don't get to coup de grâce", which is nothing to laugh at. At one point he just stopped and said "I am going to eat, read this" as he gave it to my friend. I am glad I got to play in the special, but I was nevertheless disappointed because the scenario was awesome but the judge was horrible.
I do not blame this on the coordinators, since they have to trust people when they volunteer.
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don't guarantee last-minute walk-ins seats at a table that goes on to part 2 (maybe even run those extra tables in a separate, overflow area).We had 12 tables of overflow in a separate area. The even organizers wanted everyone to be able to contribute to the results of the event. Would it be better to tell them, "You get to play, but your efforts don't matter to the overall results," instead?
But, above all, START ON TIME.I would love to. If you can tell me a way to guarantee that we can organize 600+ players and GMs into tiered tables in 30 minutes or less with just 8 muster areas, I would be infinitely grateful.
That said, I do have some ideas for making it better next year, including making sure I implement processes that I used successfully in 2011 for mustering the Special and that I apparently forgot this year. I'm not claiming that it will be perfect, but I'll do my best to make it noticeably better. I'm sure there will be additional problems that we haven't forseen, and we'll have to find solutions to those as well.
John I mustered for you 2 morning slots thursdays and friday I loved it. You and the campaign staff did a very fine job. Kudos to you. I did not muster the special. When I GMd my slots I would go out to help muster players for my own table. Making sure players were near the same level etc.
Good job, your hard work was really appreciated on my end. Requests and questions provided promptly and proffesionally. Sometime musterers were not onsite before the time started this lead to chaos, other stations were ran great, some were not.
From what I experienced this was WAY better than prior years.
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Even the best laid plans will fail when all of the parts don't work
Did we have some GM's that were under-prepared? Yes
Did we have GM's that just didn't bother to show up? Yes
Did we have players that were not prepared to play? Yes
Did we make some questionable, in hindsight, decisions about the competitive part of the scenarios? apparently so
Could we have done better on the mustering and communication? Yes
There are many more, but in the end, this year's special, despite being one of the best scenarios written to date (especially part one), did not live up to the expectations of the players. As one of the leaders of the society, I can say that we are truly sorry if anyone had a less than positive experience at the special. Every year, we have been improving many of the facets of organizing an event this large and the issues from this year are just more obstacles that can, and will, be corrected before next year.
For those that had a great time at the specials, we are happy, for those who did not, you have our heartfelt sympathy.
Here is to another great season and I look forward to seeing everyone next year at GenCon 2013 and the Pathfinder Society special event. It will be a grand event, oh yes it will!
Explore, Report, Cooperate!
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I would like to comment on the first round of the special, but I did not get to finish it as my table's GM quit running it part of the way through.
He quit running a timed scenario before the end.
So seeing as a I did not get to finish the scenario and experience the ending I do not feel qualified to comment on it.
I did get a partially filled out chronicle sheet and a dismissal by Jon Cary at the HQ, so that is something.
All I wanted to do was complete an event I paid to participate in and have an actual chance to participate in part 2. In my opinion "logistical problems" are not an excuse for a deficit of customer service and proper conflict resolution.
It seems to me that there would not have been a need for GMs to run the scenario cold if there were not so many overflow tables. Rather than trying to run the event for 600 gamers it would have been more prudent to ensure that the 450 gamers who took the time to pre-buy their tickets had an enjoyable experience first.
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I played the first part of the Special and it was, by far, the worst game of Pathfinder I have ever experienced. This was the first Gen Con Special game my son and I played, so we had high expectations of having fun, but no real expectations of advancing. Our issues were entirely GM related:
1. He was nearly completely unprepared. We spent as much time waiting for him to read ahead as we did playing.
2. He could not track initiative competently. We resorted to just going around the table counter-clockwise.
3. He could not read loudly or clearly enough to be heard by anyone except the two players sitting next to him. And they had to lean in.
4. He did not understand the scoring system at all. I don't believe he had read it ahead of time and it was a scramble at the end to turn in the slips of paper.
5. He had not idea how to run a chase. He pulled out the Chase Cards, held them out, and asked if any of the players at the table knew how to run it.
6. He complained constantly about the organization of the event and the content of the scenario.
Again, worst game of Pathfinder I have ever played, by far. In fact, it was maybe the second worst RPG session I've ever experienced. Shockingly bad. Most of the players completely checked out. My son and I went back to the hotel wondering why we wasted an evening at Gen Con on that.
There ought to be some sort of qualification for GMs running the Special at Gen Con.
Narl, I was the Paladin at your table.
After reading through this thread I think I am even more upset than before. Other tables in part 1 that had GM problems (DQ, quitting) had them resolved. Our table was told by HQ (Jon Cary) that our only course of action was to send an email to Mike.
I am curious to know the reason for the variance in response to similar situations.
Canadian Maplecakes
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We had 12 tables of overflow in a separate area. The even organizers wanted everyone to be able to contribute to the results of the event. Would it be better to tell them, "You get to play, but your efforts don't matter to the overall results," instead?
Nope. While it wasn't the best situation, I'm glad I was able to help in seating an addition 12 tables of eager PFS players.
As for the rest of this conversation... Mmmmm tasty.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Jonathan, Thursty,
As a table judge, I'd like to ask: how did any given table's work help contribute to the results of Round One? I know we were handing slips up to HQ, indicating that we had run different encounters, but not whether the table had succeeded or failed at them.
What purpose did that end up serving?
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As a table judge, I'd like to ask: how did any given table's work help contribute to the results of Round One? I know we were handing slips up to HQ, indicating that we had run different encounters, but not whether the table had succeeded or failed at them.
The mechanic is actually stated on the scenario but:
The success slips do not affect each table's amount of gold/auction notes.
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I only ran Part One but I thought it was the best written Special yet. Players had lots of options to solve challenges in multiple different ways. Fun and fast moving.
The biggest problem my party had was running out of time, and that was mostly related to things needing to be cut shorter than intended due to the late start. It also didn't help that they were a 7 player table. They were a fun group and I enjoyed running the adventure for them. They were very frustrated by the mages preventing them from escaping but this was not an adventure where I could pull any punches. Stinking Clouds, Sleet Storms and grease made things rough on them.
What I will say about Part 2 is that if the consequences are so dire,it is important not to be subtle. There should have been an overseer GM who made it crystal clear in announcements. You have 15 minutes to get out or you will ALL DIE! That would cover for any table variance.
Doing the special this way (competitive) was a huge risk but I think lessons were learned that will make for a better special in years to come.
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Rather than trying to run the event for 600 gamers it would have been more prudent to ensure that the 450 gamers who took the time to pre-buy their tickets had an enjoyable experience first.
So I have been trying something new on the boards and trying not to be critical towards PFS ;), but this has exactly been my thoughts, and I think it should be something that should be considered for the future.
In the Future the main room for all events should be for those that have tickets only, for all events not just the special, and a Overflow room should be set aside with a specific limitation of players in mind with Overflow GMs prepared to run scenarios if needed.
Everyone with generics tickets should be directed to this room for mustering and if there are ticket holders for events that wish to play with their friends who only have generic tickets they can go to the overflow room as well.
Just a quick thought out suggestion.
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Rather than trying to run the event for 600 gamers it would have been more prudent to ensure that the 450 gamers who took the time to pre-buy their tickets had an enjoyable experience first.So I have been trying something new on the boards and trying not to be critical towards PFS ;), but this has exactly been my thoughts, and I think it should be something that should be considered for the future.
In the Future the main room for all events should be for those that have tickets only, for all events not just the special, and a Overflow room should be set aside with a specific limitation of players in mind with Overflow GMs prepared to run scenarios if needed.
Everyone with generics tickets should be directed to this room for mustering and if there are ticket holders for events that wish to play with their friends who only have generic tickets they can go to the overflow room as well.
Just a quick thought out suggestion.
Pretty much a 1000 times this. This was my number one aggravation at Gen Con.
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For those of you who are mainly players, please be mindful of both good and bad DMs. If you have a complaint about someone, bring it up to the organizers - preferably at the event (although try to do it in a way to not interfere with other players). Dropping off a name of the DM, and what they did exceptionally well or poorly will help THEM know who is doing a good job, or not-so-good job for later conventions. If you don't tell them those stand-out issues, they won't know that the issues need to be addressed. If you don't feel comfortable with talking to someone about it, leave them a note. Last resort, send an Email after the fact to the organizers (complaints about specific DMs, I would suggest keeping to private Email).Actually, we don't have a good way to track that. The best way to address problems with GMs at Gen Con is to email Mike Brock. As the primary organizer for PFS at Gen Con he handles volunteer and GM signups for all the events. We're all very busy at the event itself, but if you drop Mike an email with your complaints about a specific GM I'm sure he'll keep it in mind when scheduling GMs for next year.
You might want to have a 'Judge Feedback' form handy at the con. Just hand them the form, and either ask them to complete the form and return it to HQ, or Email Mike at the included address on the form for direct feedback. Just a thought - he should be tracking that sort of thing himself, but any way to facilitate that job I imagine would be a step in the right direction. That way, even if they don't have Email access (or limited access), they'll have a way to provide some sort of feedback (both good and bad).
After all, just because you've DMed a lot of games doesn't by default make you a good (or bad) DM.
This year was my first GenCon and first time playing Society (although I have been playing Pathfinder in general since Beta). My soon to be hubby and I played together and had an incredible time (can you say nerd pre-honeymoon?).
Mustering was not much of an issue for us. It did look chaotic, but I admit that we jumped some of the volunteers about 30 minutes before the event with a full group and landed at table #2. We were grabbed by four other people who were friends to complete their group and it ended up being really great. Everyone had experience with the game and were really cool.
Our group won top of our tier (1-2) for both events and walked away with Goblin boons. The event itself was really different for my sweetie and I. We come from a group that tends to run a little slower (aka extremely RP heavy). This fast paced and timed event was a refreshing change. The sense of urgency really got us hyped up, and many high fives and hugs of relief occurred.
For the second part we had Mike Brock DM for us, which we were all excited and terrified for. He did an amazing job (and on very little sleep!) and convinced one of our players to hop on the dragon's back (to his death). We lost two players in part #2 and narrowly escaped with, maybe, two minutes left. It was wild!
I, personally, had a wonderful time. The new people we met and the deep sense of urgency gave me the experience of one of the best games I have ever played with Pathfinder (Carrion Crown being a close second). I am moving to Baltimore in a few weeks and will have a few PFS options there. I will certainly get more deeply involved with Society after this event.
Prepare thyself for the Goblin Queen! And good luck to the DM who will be getting our Goblin party next year!
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For the second part we had Mike Brock DM for us, which we were all excited and terrified for. He did an amazing job (and on very little sleep!) and convinced one of our players to hop on the dragon's back (to his death). We lost two players in part #2 and narrowly escaped with, maybe, two minutes left. It was wild!
I was the GM/VC that stopped by your table and watched for a bit. You guys were some of the most engaged and enthusiastic players I've ever seen. It was fun just to watch you guys play, and see the panic of a closing portal before you. :)
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After reading most of these posts and preping and GMing at GenCon I have some marching orders for Mike & Mark .....
August 2, 2013: Hard deadline to get all materials out to GMs for GenCon 2013 (August 15 to 18, 2013). Four days is not enough time to properly prepare. You have 346 days to meet this deadline. That's at least six months to convince your bosses that it is needed.
I think this may be the most important suggestion. Why didn't GMs show up? Was one of the reasons that they weren't prepared? Did tables of any of the Season 4 and Special scenarios not run well because the GM didn't have time to prep? I know my table of 4-03 could have run better if I had more time. GenCon is suppose to be the best experience of the year. Let's give the GMs time to make it that way.
-Swiftbrook
Just My Thoughts
After hearing about the Special, I REALLY wish I could have been there to experience it.
I was the GM/VC that stopped by your table and watched for a bit. You guys were some of the most engaged and enthusiastic players I've ever seen. It was fun just to watch you guys play, and see the panic of a closing portal before you. :)
For the second part we had Mike Brock DM for us, which we were all excited and terrified for. He did an amazing job (and on very little sleep!) and convinced one of our players to hop on the dragon's back (to his death). We lost two players in part #2 and narrowly escaped with, maybe, two minutes left. It was wild!
I remember you! We were really having a great time, and everyone at the table got along well and was so valuable to our survival. I don't think we would have made it out if everyone wasn't on their A-game. I felt like the jerk dashing to the portal, but everyone who was still breathing got out.
We might have been louder if I didn't have a cold (my voice was touch and go for the whole con). I might have over shouted Nani, who was next to us! It might have been for the best, the swears might have corrupted the little ones.
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Venture-Captain, Ireland—Belfast
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Played in both parts with an ad hoc party including a pregen. The first part was great fun, lots of in character repartee and improvised tactics. I am guessing that we just scraped through but boy we're we delighted as we got to carry on the fun!
Part 2 was tremendous with the GM noting on one of the chronicles that the dragon riding rogue's was the "Best Epic Death Ever".
I am not easy to impress but the GMing and playing reminded me why I play RPGs.
I 100% accept other people had less fun. In an ideal world mustering should be done before the date and the parties pre built with only last minute tinkering to deal with no shows etc.
This is sadly an almost impossible ideal and if you end up over subscribed I am still inclined to try and err on the side of inclusivity even though I do understand the negative consequences. I also see no easy way to legislate for flakey GMs who under perform.
Thanks to everyone involved for the opportunity to take part in this special.
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Hey all, thanks for the feedback. Some quick thoughts:
With the exception for the Special, all of the comments I heard regarding mustering this past weekend were positive. It's clear that for a high-demand event like the Special, we need to do better.
Some of you have asked who was responsible for "X" in the Special 1 or 2. It doesn't matter. All of the following people were involved in the development of the Specials and we're all equally responsible: Me, Tim, Mark, Mike, Erik and James.
We're listening to your feedback, both positive and negative. It's interesting to note how a person's experience is directly proportional to the quality of their GM.
It's true that part 2 looked more like a word document. That's because it didn't go through the full Paizo editing/development. This was a group decision that was made in order to provide a better experience for Part 1 and knowing that a) Part 2 would never be offered again and b) all of the GMs for Part 2 were 4 or 5 star GMs who we felt could deal with poor formatting.
In the chase scene, even if you fell 10 cards behind, once someone in the party caught up, you were only 3 rounds behind. Also, the person your chasing is supposed to stop running after they finish buffing (during which they're only moving a card every other turn!).
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Repeatedly, people have written in this thread that playing the Special with an unprepared GM was preferable than not playing it at all. Do you folks really feel that way? Even when an unprepared GM, skimming over a line, can misinterpret the conditions and kill the party?
I think if it is done right....meaning both sides get to fudge a few things then yes I would love to play. If the control is taken out of the table GM's hands and he is forced into a set of rules that he does not understand or even know...then "No".
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Repeatedly, people have written in this thread that playing the Special with an unprepared GM was preferable than not playing it at all. Do you folks really feel that way? Even when an unprepared GM, skimming over a line, can misinterpret the conditions and kill the party?
I think if it is done right....meaning both sides get to fudge a few things then yes I would love to play. If the control is taken out of the table GM's hands and he is forced into a set of rules that he does not understand or even know...then "No".
What you are describing would be unfair and impossible to do in a scored, competitive event. If your GM fudged some things your table may beat out other tables who played by the rules.
That's what makes the special tricky. I don't care if my GM modifies the chase mechanic normally, but you can't do that kind of thing in a scored event.
