We are a party of 5 lvl20 adventurers and we know we will be facing lucifer (cr39) next month. Our dm gives us the possibility to create any equipment we want using any book(no pre-created allowed) to challenge him. How is it possible to defeat him?
Personnally I believe that he wasn't created to ever be de-throned.
Better than you have tried, and failed.
The only time i've ever beaten Lucifer was by using a strategy called Tyrant-lock...in a completely different game.
To be honest i kinda think you guys are screwed.
But good luck.
Step 1: Find the Saint of Killers.
Step 2: Try not to die.
Step 3: Convince the Saint of Killers to kill Lucifer.
Step 4: Try not to die.
Step 5: Watch the Saint of Killers headshot Lucifer.
Step 6: Try not to die.
Step 7: Don’t taunt, tease, mock, or congratulate the Saint of Killers.
Final Rule: Try not to die.
You could get someone else to fight him, somehow. Someone that has no stats, and by definition is above having stats.
Like...
The Lady of Pain.
It may be harder to convince her to do this than it might be to just fight the guy yourselves.
Level 20? Use the build I like to call "The pale rider". Gunslinger Pistolero 5 Fighter (or ranger)15, if you can take a race that gives you a higher Wisdom bonus take it, even if it's from the Bestiary.
Take +5 Distance Guided Holy revolvers. Two-Weapon fighting.
Squeeze every bit of wisdom you can out of every source you can.
Get 11 shots a round hitting touch on a 10 for the first 5 shots, with no bonus to your wisdom (+5 guns, +20 BAB, +3 from weapon training) at minimum, probably more. You can get a ludicrously high wisdom by default (18+2 race, +5 levels, +5 book, +6 belt= 36, a +13)much less if you get a race with a decent basic wisdom score, and if you can get more than a +10, use deadly aim.
Full Attack:
+31/+31/+31/+26/+21/+16 1d8+2d6+50 19-20X4
+31/+31/+26/+21/+16 1d8+2d6+50 19-20X4
(+20 BAB +5 Gun +13 wisdom +3 weapon training +2 weapon focus -6 deadly aim -2 rapid shot -4 TWF= +31)
(damage +5 gun +13 wisdom +13 dex[?]+3 weapon training+4 greater weapon spec+12 deadly aim =50)
Each shot averages 61.5 and you should crit at least once a round. Hopefully you will get some bonuses that aren't just you at some point, because you will need any +hit you can get to make every shot connect.
Finally, take burrowing bullets. He's not immune to being staggered.
If you really want the initiative on him, drop two levels of fighter/ranger take 2 levels of Inquisitor.
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Level 20? Use the build I like to call "The pale rider". Gunslinger Pistolero 5 Fighter (or ranger)15, if you can take a race that gives you a higher Wisdom bonus take it, even if it's from the Bestiary.
Take +5 Distance Guided Holy revolvers. Two-Weapon fighting.
Squeeze every bit of wisdom you can out of every source you can.
Get 11 shots a round hitting touch on a 10 for the first 5 shots, with no bonus to your wisdom (+5 guns, +20 BAB, +3 from weapon training) at minimum, probably more. You can get a ludicrously high wisdom by default (18+2 race, +5 levels, +5 book, +6 belt= 36, a +13)much less if you get a race with a decent basic wisdom score, and if you can get more than a +10, use deadly aim.
Full Attack:
+31/+31/+31/+26/+21/+16 1d8+2d6+50 19-20X4
+31/+31/+26/+21/+16 1d8+2d6+50 19-20X4
(+20 BAB +5 Gun +13 wisdom +3 weapon training +2 weapon focus -6 deadly aim -2 rapid shot -4 TWF= +31)
(damage +5 gun +13 wisdom +13 dex[?]+3 weapon training+4 greater weapon spec+12 deadly aim =50)Each shot averages 61.5 and you should crit at least once a round. Hopefully you will get some bonuses that aren't just you at some point, because you will need any +hit you can get to make every shot connect.
Finally, take burrowing bullets. He's not immune to being staggered.
If you really want the initiative on him, drop two levels of fighter/ranger take 2 levels of Inquisitor.
Then he teleports in front of you and you fail the fear aura save. dead.
That wouldn't kill you outright, Especially since he's staggered until he pulls out all the bullets. Not to mention that this is a cooperative effort, this character is meant to be alongside at least 3 other characters. At least one of which can help you get over fear effects, you know, assuming the team is built properly.
For example: Greater Heroism makes you outright immune to fear. Meaning he would teleport over to you say "BOO!" and the Pale Rider would respond by shooting him in the face.
Pray.
If all else fails then strike a deal with him (devils always go for a deal) and hope you can trick him with it.
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Finally we are going to be 8 lvl20's. Campain setting has it that the gods are gone and we inherited one domain of our old gods each. The party is composed of: 2 Clerics, 1 Ranger, 1 Wizard, 1 barbarian, 1 samourai, 1 paladin (maybe a little different I can't recall exactly)
If they each inherited a domain, then they should each be able to command one (1) entire plane / demiplane of creatures to follow them in their battle. This should effectively neutralize (if not turn the tables on) Luci's paltry pit fiend summoning.
8 planes' worth of armies > 1 plane's army
You've got 8 planes at your disposal. Use them.
Send in everything that can't use wish to occupy Lucifers Army.
Use everything that can cast wish (or cast as a Wizard/Sorcerer) to use it to cast an empowered maximized enlarged Magic Missile against Lucifer. (Didn't check the spell level for that one. If necessary, use rods for the metamagic or just drop some of the damage enhancing metamagic, just keep enlarged so you can get enough casters in range).
Magic missile isn't subject to SR, so you don't have to worry about that (on top of the auto-hit).
You'd only need about 54 casters (level 9 or higher) to drop him to 0, even if you don't use maximize or empower.
If you'd get about say 500 solar angels, this alone should probably be enough.
Oh, you should probably have some of them cast dimensional anchor to keep lucy where he is.
Never underestimate the small spells ;-)
Since Mythic Adventures is coming out soon, I wonder if a mythic party with 20 class levels and 10 tiers is powerful enough to beat him.
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Purely as a hypothetical exercise...
It seems like a Gunslinger (Pistolero) 13/Paladin 7 has...really good odds, though not by himself. Assuming you start with Dex 18, Cha 17, and add all level ups to Dex. Add +5 to each with Wishes, then +6 to each with a belt and headband, that'll give you Dex 34, Cha 28. Declare Smite Evil, and use a +5 Holy, Evil Outsider Bane, Lawful Outsider Bane gun with silver bullets.
With Haste, Good Hope, Inspire Courage +4, Smite Evil, Divine Favor, Deadly Aim, Rapid Shot, TWF, Improved TWF, and Greater TWF you can easily do +46/+46/+46/+46/+41/+41/+36/+36/+31 for 1d8+9d6+49 per attack. That's something like 85 points of damage per attack (92 on the first), all nine of which will probably hit for a total of 772 damage ignoring DR and regeneration. This ignores misses, of course, but also the 19-20 x4 Crits he has available.
Now, that involves one round of prep a caster with Haste, and a Bard...but it seems doable. You combine the above guy with a Tactics Cleric (and Reactionary, and Improved Initiative) to make him win Initiative so he can do his thing before Lucifer goes.
The entire rest of the party just needs to do 200 points of damage or so to kill the guy. That seems doable if you design the party right (I think the Wizard can do 90 with Clashing Rocks alone, for example).
Or, hell, two of these guys plus a Wizard, Bard, and Cleric for transport and support would make a hell of a party to kill him.
At 74 AC you're still only practically hitting him with crits.
We are a party of 5 lvl20 adventurers and we know we will be facing lucifer (cr39) next month. Our dm gives us the possibility to create any equipment we want using any book(no pre-created allowed) to challenge him. How is it possible to defeat him?
Personnally I believe that he wasn't created to ever be de-throned.
Gate, gate, gate, gate
Bring enough gear as tribute to the army of solars and titans you will need.
One issue, Infurnus is his plane. As soon as you arrived he knows. You try to gate to him, he redirects you else where. Oh, you can live in lava that then changes to every element every round.... oophs! Then you have all of his devils to deal with. You are not fighting one CR 39, you are fighting an entire plane of existence. Anything you can think he has thought of for he is matching wits with all the Arch-Devil and has not lost yet. Hope your DM is nice.
How is it possible to defeat him?
The GM lets you. Played with any sort of brain, he will defeat any party.
Sympathy.
You berate the GM for using Tome of Redundancy Complete.
Alright, one of the easiest ways to take out a single foe is with Geas/Quest.
No save, and wish can be used to duplicate the spell and bypass the casting time.
Now all we need to do is get to a consistent +49 SR roll to that Lucifier always fails.
Half-Elf Wizard
Level 20
+2 Spell Penetration
+2 Greater Spell Penetration
+2 Elven Spirit (Racial Feat)
+2 Spell Specialization
+8 Spell Perfection
+5 Piercing (Rod)
+1 Gifted Adept (Trait)
+5 Dwwmer's Essence (Consumable)
+1 Orange Prism Ioun Stone
+1d4 Nethys Exalted Boon 3
That's at least +49
Be a diviner wizard and act first.
Anything with a stat block can be beaten by a group of level 20 characters...at least if there's enough pre-buffing and planning, of course.
I favor the Gun Paladin approach myself. Boost CHA through the roof. Have Noble Scion (War) to use CHA for Initiative, and then get a Circlet of Persuasion. For greater help, use Bestow Grace to give yourself double your CHA bonus to your saves (spam potions of it if you need to). With that, your saves should be more than decent enough to deal with Lucifer's tricks, and you have a more than decent shot of winning Initiative. As long as you target his Touch AC, it shouldn't be too difficult to hit him with the right buffs on.
The real problem would likely be if he tries to hit you with an Anti-Magic field (does he have Mage's Disjunction? You'd think he'd definitely have that, but I guess not), in which case you're likely to get overwhelmed.
With the warm love of Nylarhotep.
Alright, one of the easiest ways to take out a single foe is with Geas/Quest.
No save, and wish can be used to duplicate the spell and bypass the casting time.
Now all we need to do is get to a consistent +49 SR roll to that Lucifier always fails.
Half-Elf Wizard
Level 20
+2 Spell Penetration
+2 Greater Spell Penetration
+2 Elven Spirit (Racial Feat)
+2 Spell Specialization
+8 Spell Perfection
+5 Piercing (Rod)
+1 Gifted Adept (Trait)
+5 Dwwmer's Essence (Consumable)
+1 Orange Prism Ioun Stone
+1d4 Nethys Exalted Boon 3
That's at least +49Be a diviner wizard and act first.
Lucifer: *Casts Break Enchantment*
Have you all forgotten that the dust of sneezing and choking can beat anything...... 48,000 GP for 20 bags and thats at least 100 rounds being stunned... GG Lucifer better luck next time
Hope you can reliably make that DC 47 Will save or be Frightened for coming within 20 feet of him.
Plus it bones you just as easily as him.
Also the main problem is, of course, that he is omniscient on his plane.
"Nothing goes unnoticed by him on Infernus. All movements are seen, all whispers are heard. A plan is not hatched or contrived without Lucifer’s knowledge. When people speak of Infernus, they speak of Lucifer and vice versa"
As soon as you step foot on his plane, his Planar Omniscience alerts him. He can then tune in on you. He can see, hear, taste, touch, and smell everything that occurs in your general vicinity. Contrariwise, none of your Divinations and other special senses work, so you're stuck hoofing it the hard way, no Teleporting directly to him, since you have f~&$ all clue where you are.
All he has to do is wear you down by Summoning Pit Fiends and having them take turns f$$*ing your s#** up. If that don't work, he can Gate in as many more as he needs, and have them Greater Teleport directly to you and commence the ass-whoopin'. Then Wish whoever's still alive to the Positive or Negative Energy Planes for s*%*s and giggles, all from the comfort of his throne. 7 times per day, at DC 31. Hell, he has Craft Rod, make three of those Persistent.
Wait, make that 8/day, since he has a Wish SLA too.
And hell, the Pit Fiends have Wish once a year too, so make that 8 more saves at DC 27 vs the same effect.
Then he still has his 9th-1st level Cleric spells, 8th-1st level Sorcerer spells, and numerous high level at-will and 3/day SLAs left to make the life of whatever unlucky bastard actually managed to survive that
The Geas thing probably wouldn't even work. He prepares Greater Spell Immunity every day, those no-save spells like that are the go-to for a being who can really only be defeated by those things.
All of the Schroedinger's Wizard s&@+ you can pull, so can he. With the added benefits of a higher hit dice, 20 class levels in TWO casting classes, a number of powerful racial SLAs, and kickass martial abilities too.
Stacking the deck really only puts you back on a level playing field at best, and more likely just prolongs the time until your death.
Geas specifically can't be undone by Break Enchantment: "A remove curse spell ends a geas/quest spell only if its caster level is at least two higher than your caster level. Break enchantment does not end a geas/quest, but limited wish, miracle, and wish do."
Lucifer could Wish it away though, but really that depends on the exact wording of the Geas. You may be able to work it out so attempting to remove the effect would be against the parameters.
The Trap the Soul method really is my favorite though. All you need to do is be able to reliably beat 71 Sense Motive and you are good. Not to say that doesn't require some rather serious optimizing...
Geas specifically can't be undone by Break Enchantment: "A remove curse spell ends a geas/quest spell only if its caster level is at least two higher than your caster level. Break enchantment does not end a geas/quest, but limited wish, miracle, and wish do."
Lucifer could Wish it away though, but really that depends on the exact wording of the Geas. You may be able to work it out so attempting to remove the effect would be against the parameters.
Ah, right. Read that wrong.
So he Limited Wishes it away. And I imagine you can't make him not. That seems an act that would result in almost certain death to me, depending on the Geas.
And that's assuming it even works in the first place.
The Trap the Soul method really is my favorite though. All you need to do is be able to reliably beat 71 Sense Motive and you are good. Not to say that doesn't require some rather serious optimizing...
Well, you also need to get close enough to him to hand him an object. Good luck with that.
Well, you also need to get close enough to him to hand him an object. Good luck with that.
Boots of the Battle Herald/Greater Heroism for fear immunity + bluff. "Sup bro, always been a big fan! I brought you this awesome thing to make your more awesome so enjoy and like maybe don't kill me after if that's cool!"
Now roll bluff to see if you defeated Lucifer.
Assuming that lie is probable enough to even allow a Bluff check, he's a pretty solitary dude. I'm a bit confused as to why he'd allow any mortal to approach him directly.
Even so, were I him I'd have a policy to use my constant ability to Detect Thoughts before letting anyone speak.
Assuming that lie is probable enough to even allow a Bluff check, he's a pretty solitary dude. I'm a bit confused as to why he'd allow any mortal to approach him directly.
Even so, were I him I'd have a policy to use my constant ability to Detect Thoughts before letting anyone speak.
Clearly we must also bring along someone with at least 5 levels of Dragon Herald Bard to Diplomacy sucker punch him as a full round action.
If you're worried about getting close to him, why not just shoot a trap the soul gem into his hand with a bow?
...Because you can't shoot objects into people's hands.
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You don't.
"But I have a wizard who spent 500 years preparing for yada yada yada, infinite buffs something something something"
Yeah, Lucifer's been doing the same thing far longer than you, along with having an entire plane at his fingertips. You don't.
There's 0 way you'd ever just wind up in a square room with him alone on one side and your party on the other.
If you have to resort to using complicated methods that clearly are not the intent of the Feat in question to accomplish your goal, you've already lost. It's like that nonsense about using a bow and Hamatula Strike to instantly teleport any target to your location. You know damn well it doesn't work that way.
But again, all of these plans rely on you getting within bow or melee range of him.
How?
