hey I picked this game up about a month ago after running across it on the internet. Me and my friends really like it. i'm the GM and I have the rules down pretty well but my games seem to be missing something, when i read adventure paths they often just don't make sense to me. (such as a stat block for a town?[carrion crow: trial of the beast]). any help would be appreciated
I would advice you to ignore anything you don't like, don't understand or don't feel you have a grip on.
What exactly do you feel your game is missing? You and the players are enjoying yourselves, so you already have the most important thing covered.
Town stat blocks are described in the Game Mastery Guide or (look here)
It town stat blocks give the GM an idea of the properties of a town, ranging from how many items, the most expensive item a town can have, how easy to bribe, etc.
Just list what does not make sense, and the community will help.
Settlement stat blocks are a godsend for those players who like to mess around in town.
It allows you to know all kind of skill modifiers related to how lawful or corrupt a city may be.
It tells you how much gold is around to sell stuff, how easy is to buy certain things.
It basically gives you all the mechanical info you could need in case your players suddenly decide to go on a shopping spree in town.
But at the same time you can use your imagination for those things. Not everything has to be a stat.
The stats are just the skeleton.
Your imagination adds the flesh and skin.
My current main adventuring town, Croftwood, has a nice, neat little stat block for easy skill arbitration, but it also has pages of story and details fleshed out.
First, let me say welcome to gaming (or have you tried other RPG's as well) and welcome to the forums! It's a great community here, one of the best.
Second, for any rules or stats that you come across but can't reference in the Core Rulebook you can also try the PRD (Pathfinder Reference Document). That's the same website posted in Azure_Zero's second link above. All of the basic and extended core rules from the hardcover books are posted for free on the PRD.
Third, what else about the Adventure Paths seems to be missing? Is it mostly stat block stuff (in which case, see above) or does it also have something to do with the "tone" or "feel" of the books? Let us know.
Finally, as others have said, as long as you're having fun that's what matters. Keep up the good times and good gaming!
thanks for the advice so far it has really helped. other parts of the adventure paths and our games in general is the story line seems sort of halting and like i'm forcing it, of course that may just be an experience thing (this is more of a worry for me since most of my PCs are quite happy so long as they get to chop). to Block Knight the closest thing we've done to this is warhammer 40k.
It sounds like it could be experience but the players not yours. They haven't played much it sounds like and have yet to learn how to "think outside the box". Until they're comfortable within the rules and thier characters you might need to nudge them along. This isn't a bad thing as long as everyone has fun. Experienced players tend to get creative and drive the story, usually in a direction you hadn't intended, which can be fun but more work for you.
"Railroading" isn't bad, as long as everyone's willing to come along for the ride. Force the the story, or even the PCs, as much as you feel is necessary to keep things moving. Just be ready to back off when the players start showing initiative.
thanks for the advice so far it has really helped. other parts of the adventure paths and our games in general is the story line seems sort of halting and like i'm forcing it, of course that may just be an experience thing (this is more of a worry for me since most of my PCs are quite happy so long as they get to chop). to Block Knight the closest thing we've done to this is warhammer 40k.
I also had similar problems to this when I first started playing. It's just an experience thing, you'll find it will get easier as you play more and more. Best thing I can say is if you need any advice at all just ask, people will be more than happy to help.
It definitely takes experience. So your group has done some war-gaming in the past? If that's the case then I can see the disconnect. As a fellow war-gamer as well I know that most story is in the background and is there mostly to provide a framework for the battles (and to connect them in the case of a war-game campaign).
With Pathfinder and most tabletop RPGs it's the other way around. The battles are usually the part that drives the plot with the story being the main focus instead. Not to say that combat isn't a huge part (it's a major part) but it more so plays co-pilot with the roleplaying part. Getting used to that takes work, a lot of work, and practice. For anyone who may be shy or more comfortable with numbers rather than words, getting used to roleplaying through the story can feel awkward at times and it may take them a little longer.
So my next round of questions would be:
1) How are your players adjusting to the game? Have the voiced any concerns or difficulties?
2) Are you running a module or Adventure Path (sounds like you may be trying your hand at Carrion Crown)? If so, which one(s)?
3) Do you even want a roleplay- or story-heavy experience? Or would you be fine with a lighter fare?
thanks for the advice so far it has really helped. other parts of the adventure paths and our games in general is the story line seems sort of halting and like i'm forcing it, of course that may just be an experience thing (this is more of a worry for me since most of my PCs are quite happy so long as they get to chop). to Block Knight the closest thing we've done to this is warhammer 40k.
Part of the storyline issues are experience, to be sure--it takes a bit of "fake it 'til you make it" to be fully comfortable on your side of the screen during the non-combat parts of the adventures. (And when you are comfortable, you realize you're still making up parts as you go along, and that's just fine!)
You can get more confidence in the storyline bits by doing an extra read through the adventure (and the next one in the path) in order to make sure you've got bits of info embedded in your subconscious and ready to throw out there as necessary. Also, the "GM Reference" threads for each adventure path on these forums have a lot of clarifying questions in them, as well as a lot of ideas on how to improvise around the material in the AP. Read through those and see what resonates with you.
On your players' side, this is one of those "social contract" issues. You can be upfront with your players, as part of the collective learning process, "Hey guys, there are some really neat plotlines in this adventure that I feel like we're not taking advantage of. What I can do to help you guys engage in those?"
You can even provide direct prompts, if you feel like your players are totally missing something that would be plot-significant & fun to go through. Ret-con a Sense Motive check for them: "Ever since you talked to Groundskeeper Willie, you've had this nagging feeling that he wasn't being upfront with you." Give them clues about mcguffins: "Every evening in camp, you've been idly fidgeting with that object you found, and it seems like the weird markings on it might be some sort of writing, if only you could figure it out."
The other side of the social contract, though, is that maybe the players just don't want much role-play / plot development. Maybe you all try the plot-intensive side of things, and they still just want to smash stuff. As long as everybody's having fun that way, that's fine too, though it does alter your choice of adventures a bit.
A thing I used to have alot of trouble with (and sometimes still do) is if the players want to do something really wierd that isn't covered by the rules. I had/have a tendency to just want to say, "You can't do that!"
Instead i TRY to give them a chance if they make the high skill check and/or to hit roll.
EX: 1
Player: "When no one is looking I throw my knife to cut the chain holding the chandelier."
GM: "Ok, that will be really difficult. You will have to make a sleight of hand check to make sure none of the 24 people in the room see you throw a knife. (I don't tell the players exactly how high but I figure around 25 since there are that many people around.) The chain isn't moving, but it is not all that big (figure maybe AC 18) and it is along the ceiling in a 30' high ball room. So that will give you -4 on the to hit roll. I will remind you that a standard chain has hardness 10 and 5 hitpoints. You can't really see this one well enough, but it looks like it might be a bit thinner than a 'standard' chain. (I'd say maybe hardness 8 and 4 hit points.)"
EX: 2
Player: "I use silent image to make it look like the flowers are blooming right really fast right before their eyes."
GM: "Ok make a knowledge nature check to see if you remember what it should look like. (Set the DC low like a 8, they may not have ranks but everyone has probably seen a flower in different stages of bloom before.) Ok, you got that, make a spellcraft check to see if you can get the image to do that but you don't hink it will be a problem. (Again make it easy because that doesn't seem to complicated compared to what players might come up with, so maybe DC 12.) Then make a fairly easy bluff check because the Grumlucks are gullible. (DC 10.)"
Then let them try it if they think they are up to it.
One key thing to remember is when you're a new GM, and you feel like you're just floundering around aimlessly it's ok. The great thing about having a new group is they often don't realize that you struggling or having difficulty.
If your group is having fun that's all that really matters the rest will come in time.
It definitely takes experience. So your group has done some war-gaming in the past? If that's the case then I can see the disconnect. As a fellow war-gamer as well I know that most story is in the background and is there mostly to provide a framework for the battles (and to connect them in the case of a war-game campaign).
With Pathfinder and most tabletop RPGs it's the other way around. The battles are usually the part that drives the plot with the story being the main focus instead. Not to say that combat isn't a huge part (it's a major part) but it more so plays co-pilot with the roleplaying part. Getting used to that takes work, a lot of work, and practice. For anyone who may be shy or more comfortable with numbers rather than words, getting used to roleplaying through the story can feel awkward at times and it may take them a little longer.
So my next round of questions would be:
1) How are your players adjusting to the game? Have the voiced any concerns or difficulties?
2) Are you running a module or Adventure Path (sounds like you may be trying your hand at Carrion Crown)? If so, which one(s)?
3) Do you even want a roleplay- or story-heavy experience? Or would you be fine with a lighter fare?
1) they seem to be adjusting well and they haven't voiced any concerns thus far
2) right now i'm running them through kingmaker stolen lands there were some other people that wanted to try the game out so i picked up the only adventure path book they had and it comes in somewhere in the middle of the actual story and I didn't understand much of it (i do now) and tried to get them through at least a bit of it.... didn't get very far.3) I am more interested in story and i think the PC's like the change of pace from war gaming but like you said it may take a bit before they get used to role playing because of it