Hi Folks,
I'm starting to run the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, and I need a Pathfinder conversion for the "Force" domain detailed in there.
I found this doc, but I'm not fond of the way it's worded (essentially you can use up a Standard Action in advance, but without readying, to make someone else re-roll)
Have there been other conversions in other places?
Cheers All
Viperion
No one? Bueller? Anyone?
I'll have a crack at this and put it up in a few hours. Really blanking on the 8th level domain power though, as it's something unique to Pathfinder and there's no equivalent to draw on from D&D. Is there a guideline somewhere for designing the domain powers?
I could not pull it up on my phone but if you where looking for somehing tho replace the ablity I would look at the force mage from complete mage or the force missile mage from one of the later dragon magazines
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
OK first Draft:
Granted Powers: You can project a bolt of force, and manipulate forces in your favour.
Force Bolt (Sp): As a standard action, you can unleash a bolt of divine force from your outstretched hand. You can target any single foe within 30 feet as a ranged touch attack with this bolt. If you hit the foe, the force bolt deals 1d4 points of force damage + 1 point for every two cleric levels you possess, and you make a Bull Rush attempt against the target. Your CMB for this attack uses your caster level as your BAB and your Wisdom modifier in place of your Strength modifier. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
Force Manipulation (Su): At 8th level you may re-roll the result of any Bull Rush, Sunder, Trip, damage roll of any spell with the Force descriptor, or melee damage roll you make, keeping the better of the two results. You may use this ability a number of times per day equal to your cleric level.
Domain Spells:
1st Mage Armour
2nd Magic Missile
3rd Force Punch
4th Resilient Sphere
5th Wall of Force
6th Repulsion
7th Forcecage
8th Telekinetic Sphere
9th Annihilation (new spell)
Annihilation
School: Evocation (Force)
Level: Sorceror/Wizard 9, Force 9
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Components: V,S
Range:: Medium
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
Using a blast of dark force, you tear a temporary hole in the fabric of reality. This hole takes on the form of a sphere of annihilation. You control the sphere as if you possessed a talisman of the sphere. At the end of the duration, the hole seals itself and the sphere disappears.
good to see it came to gather
The language and benefits of the domain abilities should be written better (and simply be better), so I will help clarify what it's all supposed to include, as well as some Pathfinder precedents I'm trying to follow:
As an immediate action, you can cause a target within your line of sight to reroll a single attack roll, damage roll, strength or dexterity-based skill check, or reflex saving throw. You must take the second result, even if it is worse. After using this ability, you cannot use a swift or immediate action on your next turn. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
As it was originally written, it would take a readied Standard Action to work on half of the things it said it was supposed to do, and its original wording left confusion as to how its extra ability was supposed to be ran. I believe that setting it as an Immediate Action is the simplest way to accomplish the 'once per round' sort of thing. Although it seems powerful, it is limited in its applications in comparison to domains like Luck (every D20 roll), especially when you give it a 1 round 'cooldown' period where it won't be active, as well as certain other abilities (Quickened spells, certain class features, etc.)
The best precedent for this is the Step Up feat, which says that if you take this immediate action to take the 5-foot step, you cannot take a 5-foot step (AKA, replicate the same action) on your following turn, and you are penalized for attempting to use similar action-types (AKA, trying to use Quicken spells or certain class features).
At 8th level, the cleric may create an emanation centered on him as a standard action. Allies within 30 feet, including the Cleric, treat their equipment as if it were a Force effect. Armor and shields apply their AC bonuses to Touch AC, and weapons, including natural weapons, affect Touch AC instead of normal AC. This benefit also applies to projectile weapons, provided the projectile weapon is shot or thrown from the area of effect, or the projectile hits a creature in the area of effect. Dispel magic or a rod of cancellation may end this effect prematurely. The cleric can use this ability for a number of rounds equal to his cleric level. The duration need not be consecutive, but must be spent in 1 round increments.
Although the ability is significantly stronger than its comparison, the original didn't really fit the whole 'force' theme, and even with these changes, it's still not gamebreaking to allow, since it requires the Cleric to get in close to the enemy for this to be extremely useful, and the effects can be countered individually.
As for how I worked this ability, Discordant Voice seems to be the best fit, since it covers the "weapons and creatures in area" concept the ability was trying to mimic.
For the domain spells, although it's nice you included Wizard spells like Magic Missile, some Cleric spells are Force subjects too, and those should be included as well. I'll also throw in some sort of lame spells to balance out the good spells they get. (Additionally, you have Magic Missile as a 2nd level spell when it should be 1st level.) Here's my revised list:
1 - Magic Missile
2 - Spiritual Weapon
3 - Magic Vestment
4 - Spiritual Ally
5 - Wall of Force
6 - Blade Barrier
7 - Ethereal Jaunt
8 - Telekinetic Sphere
9 - Mage's Disjunction
I appreciate the analysis, however it almost completely ignores the source material. (I believe the earliest printing would be RToEE for 3.0, later adapted in Complete Divine. As this is a thread about RToEE, that is my focus.)
This is primarily my issue with the original version of the conversion you chose to modify as well, because nowhere in the source does it suggest that "ghost touch" has anything to do with the theme of the domain and seems more like a)a self serving and capricious choice by the author and b)an easy out in lieu of coming up with something more force-centric
Note how the 3.x power is both self only and 1/day (and ostensibly a free action considering how it seems to be intended to work)
I agree with your assessment that a weird "immediate standard action" is out of place for PF, but he also reversed the polarity on the ability
If I were to rewrite it, I'd keep it as a free action, self only ability usable once per round and probably go with times/day == WIS (though 3+WIS is hardly OP)
Regarding Magic Missiles... I suspect granting it as 2nd level is intentional because divine casters already have nice things.
Also, it is not out of line in terms of a design choice as numerous "cross class" spells granted in similar manners are not given at the lowest possible spell level. (Further, I know of at least 1 prestige class that allows you to learn otherwise unobtainable spells at the cost of +1 spell level in your book/repertoire)But I'm not intending to be over critical, as there should be lots of room for variant subdomains under Force, regardless of which is considered prime. (Namely, that a "Shielding" subdomain could quite easily focus on defense and include ghost touch powers)
That said, I am in no way surprised Paizo has omitted publishing an official update to this particular domain
I actually made those editations in regards to the link the OP shared. Although the 'immediate standard action' subject is rare, it's not out of place, and for this ability, it also makes no sense as to how it is to be ran, mechanically speaking.
I'm not particularly familiar with the assumed paradigm of Cleric Domains in 3.X, but the link you cited is a severely underpowered domain in comparison to the other Pathfinder domains. The OP's link is a step in the right direction as far as the conversion and power boost is concerned, but it lacked finalization and proper wording to show clear intent. (In fact, there are a couple things I need to brush up on regarding the 8th level ability in regards to how dispel magic and rods of cancellation interact with the ability.)