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Implication? That wasn't implied.
If the baddies in the encounter all swarmed the witch without seeing the witch act, then yes. But how I choose to extrapolate that ONE SENTENCE is that when baddies see the witch taking enemies down they turn their attention towards the witch.
Like I said, same world, different realities.
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Problem is, as usual, is that everyone is heaping all these assumptions and "What ifs" onto one mythical GM who is now "The meanest most evilest person who ever judged a table" because they find something personally cheesey.
Are you feeling attacked??.. .guilty??... are you are the GM??? do we need to tie you up and crucify you??
starts throwing glitterstones at svenden
*** obviously this post is full of sarcasim and I don't actually thing that svenden is the GM in question******
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Problem is, as usual, is that everyone is heaping all these assumptions and "What ifs" onto one mythical GM who is now "The meanest most evilest person who ever judged a table" because they find something personally cheesey.
Er, if you follow the discussion, that's not what's happening at all. In fact, the guy whose post I linked even pointed out that the GM didn't actually threaten anything - it was just that poster's creative way of describing his personal tendency not to cross a GM who says they don't like something.
From there, a related discussion arose, but it was about a theoretical GM behavior, not about that particular GM. No one was making assumptions about what that GM had done. In fact, as I recall several people made a point to preface their posts with "I wasn't there, but..."
Seems to me the only assuming going on here is your assumption that people are demonizing someone. They're not.
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I hardly see how monsters and NPCs neutralizing the biggest threat on the game board as meta-gaming. But hey, everyone's reality is different!The implication was that monsters who hadn't seen him use it would target him. Big difference.
More to the point since the hex in question has NO verbal, somatic or material component and can't be identified with Spellcraft there is NO way for them to know the witch did anything.
As far as observable effects the witch stood in the corner whistling while watchng the fight. The GM who sends all the attackers after that target is being intentionally meta-gamey and targeting a player for using an ability they don't like.
Just wanted throw that into the mix, please resume previous conversation.
Venture-Agent, Nebraska—Columbus
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part of the rules of playing also are not to be a jerk. If your GM talks to you and says that you continually using a certain feat to trivialize every encounter is making it unfun for others at the table, then you have a responsibility to discontinue.
If a fight takes several rounds and the other characters just did not build right and you happen to just be the only one doing damage?---not your fault.
but if you notice for some reason you can one shot all the monsters, before others get a chance? yeah the GM has a right to ask you not too---for the other players enjoyment.
edit: note this does not mean I have a problem with the witch using sleep hex on the BBEG to end that encounter in a shot----that is in line.
this is for the characters who throughout the entire scenario have deprived others of fun. My job as a GM is to make sure the players have fun. If they built bad-I let the strong player slide more. But if they built well and the strong player is just exploiting something (even though raw legal) and keeping the other players from having fun? yeah I will ask the strong player to hold back and let the others do something also. That strong player should not take that as an insult. It means I respect your build, but please let the others play also.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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part of the rules of playing also are not to be a jerk. If your GM talks to you and says that you ... making it unfun for others at the table, then you have a responsibility to discontinue.
Sure.
I would note, however, that occasionally GMs get upset about being "beaten" and assume that the other players must be having just as little fun as they are. Someone mentioned earlier in this thread a situation where the GM told them they were making things unfun for everyone, in spite of the cheerful players saying otherwise. Another poster very wisely stated that if Player 1 is doing something that he doesn't like, but players 2-6 are happy with it, then he won't/shouldn't put a stop to it.
I bet we could add "justifying a GM decision based on 'the fun of the table' without any evidence that the table's not having fun" to the PFS messageboard Bingo card. ;)
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part of the rules of playing also are not to be a jerk. If your GM talks to you and says that you continually using a certain feat to trivialize every encounter is making it unfun for others at the table, then you have a responsibility to discontinue.
If a fight takes several rounds and the other characters just did not build right and you happen to just be the only one doing damage?---not your fault.
but if you notice for some reason you can one shot all the monsters, before others get a chance? yeah the GM has a right to ask you not too---for the other players enjoyment.
as a GM I can "ask" you not to pick your nose at the table too, but I can't "make" you or try to "punish" you for continuing to pick your nose.
I might ask someone to not use a skill as much i.e. every freaking time they can but as a PFS GM I cannot ask you to not use a class feature and I cannot intentionally "punish" you for using a class feature.
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Venture-Agent, Nebraska—Columbus
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part of the rules of playing also are not to be a jerk. If your GM talks to you and says that you ... making it unfun for others at the table, then you have a responsibility to discontinue.Sure.
I would note, however, that occasionally GMs get upset about being "beaten" and assume that the other players must be having just as little fun as they are. Someone mentioned earlier in this thread a situation where the GM told them they were making things unfun for everyone, in spite of the cheerful players saying otherwise. Another poster very wisely stated that if Player 1 is doing something that he doesn't like, but players 2-6 are happy with it, then he won't/shouldn't put a stop to it.
I bet we could add "justifying a GM decision based on 'the fun of the table' without any evidence that the table's not having fun" to the PFS messageboard Bingo card. ;)
as a GM, I could care less if my monsters die. as long as the players are having fun, they can one shot every monster. I don't say anything unless one of the players lets it be known they are not having fun.
edit: lol one shot every mob and the players all have fun? we will head out early and hit the dairy queen for malts before the next round.
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Venture-Agent, Nebraska—Columbus
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part of the rules of playing also are not to be a jerk. If your GM talks to you and says that you continually using a certain feat to trivialize every encounter is making it unfun for others at the table, then you have a responsibility to discontinue.
If a fight takes several rounds and the other characters just did not build right and you happen to just be the only one doing damage?---not your fault.
but if you notice for some reason you can one shot all the monsters, before others get a chance? yeah the GM has a right to ask you not too---for the other players enjoyment.
as a GM I can "ask" you not to pick your nose at the table too, but I can't "make" you or try to "punish" you for continuing to pick your nose.
I might ask someone to not use a skill as much i.e. every freaking time they can but as a PFS GM I cannot ask you to not use a class feature and I cannot intentionally "punish" you for using a class feature.
100% agree. all I will do is ask.
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I hardly see how monsters and NPCs neutralizing the biggest threat on the game board as meta-gaming. But hey, everyone's reality is different!
I do this without metagaming.
I ask everyone to describe themselves. I write this down. I then have intelligent monsters attack 1) robed or lightly armorer people without muscles or weapons...never a good sign for monster survival, 2) archers, 3) people who look like big damage dealers.
Once characters go, I will adjust this to the situation, with monsters targeting previously non-obvious threats, like some clerics, and other important threats, such as the person trying to kill them at that moment.
Do you know why I do this? Because this is how I would target enemies if I were a player, and it's likely intelligent monsters would do the same.
Witches are walking around wearing robes in the middle of a dungeon. Monsters who are intelligent would not take this as a good sign for their survival.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I ask everyone to describe themselves. I write this down. I then have intelligent monsters attack 1) robed or lightly armorer people without muscles or weapons...never a good sign for monster survival, 2) archers, 3) people who look like big damage dealers.
Once characters go, I will adjust this to the situation, with monsters targeting previously non-obvious threats, like some clerics, and other important threats, such as the person trying to kill them at that moment.
Do you know why I do this? Because this is how I would target enemies if I were a player, and it's likely intelligent monsters would do the same.
Nice!
Heh, this makes me want to play my 18STR, armored Eldritch Knight at your table."OH SH** HE'S A CAS--"
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I ask everyone to describe themselves. I write this down. I then have intelligent monsters attack 1) robed or lightly armorer people without muscles or weapons...never a good sign for monster survival, 2) archers, 3) people who look like big damage dealers.
Once characters go, I will adjust this to the situation, with monsters targeting previously non-obvious threats, like some clerics, and other important threats, such as the person trying to kill them at that moment.
Do you know why I do this? Because this is how I would target enemies if I were a player, and it's likely intelligent monsters would do the same.
Nice!
Heh, this makes me want to play my 18STR, armored Eldritch Knight at your table."OH SH** HE'S A CAS--"
My 24 str caster does the same thing.....1d10 + 14 (15-20x2) tends to surprise them ;)
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I ask everyone to describe themselves. I write this down. I then have intelligent monsters attack 1) robed or lightly armorer people without muscles or weapons...never a good sign for monster survival, 2) archers, 3) people who look like big damage dealers.
Once characters go, I will adjust this to the situation, with monsters targeting previously non-obvious threats, like some clerics, and other important threats, such as the person trying to kill them at that moment.
Do you know why I do this? Because this is how I would target enemies if I were a player, and it's likely intelligent monsters would do the same.
Nice!
Heh, this makes me want to play my 18STR, armored Eldritch Knight at your table."OH SH** HE'S A CAS--"
There are some solid advantages for playing against type if the DM doesn't metagame. For example, you could play a witch x/fighter 1 with plate mail and tower shield that focuses on using hexes and non-somatic spells like suggestion and command. Most monsters would probably just walk right around you like all the other turtle fighters, unless you use Prehensile Hair to trip them up or something.
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Problem is, as usual, is that everyone is heaping all these assumptions and "What ifs" onto one mythical GM who is now "The meanest most evilest person who ever judged a table" because they find something personally cheesey.Are you feeling attacked??.. .guilty??... are you are the GM??? do we need to tie you up and crucify you??
starts throwing glitterstones at svenden
*** obviously this post is full of sarcasim and I don't actually thing that svenden is the GM in question******
What I can't figure out is why I always get an extra "n" in my online hanndle. Never fails. Not that it matters that my made up avatar name is misspelled. :]
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What I can't figure out is why I always get an extra "n" in my online hanndle. Never fails. Not that it matters that my made up avatar name is misspelled. :]Problem is, as usual, is that everyone is heaping all these assumptions and "What ifs" onto one mythical GM who is now "The meanest most evilest person who ever judged a table" because they find something personally cheesey.Are you feeling attacked??.. .guilty??... are you are the GM??? do we need to tie you up and crucify you??
starts throwing glitterstones at svenden
*** obviously this post is full of sarcasim and I don't actually thing that svenden is the GM in question******
cause it's cuter with an extra "n" dangit
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Nice!
Heh, this makes me want to play my 18STR, armored Eldritch Knight at your table."OH SH** HE'S A CAS--"
While still low level, Dex plays this kind of, he wears leather lamilor armor and has stealth and perception, so he's kind of rogue like. (Personally I hate the speed hit from medium armor, so it's a style choice) Though with armor of the pit, having an AC of 18 (armor, natural armor, dex) is pretty good. Will go up to 19 at least by 4th level.
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More to the point since the hex in question has NO verbal, somatic or material component and can't be identified with Spellcraft there is NO way for them to know the witch did anything.
Knowledge Arcana will let you tell if a stone wall was made from magic or rock, I don't think its much of a stretch to connect the sleep effect with the caster.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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More to the point since the hex in question has NO verbal, somatic or material component and can't be identified with Spellcraft there is NO way for them to know the witch did anything.Knowledge Arcana will let you tell if a stone wall was made from magic or rock, I don't think its much of a stretch to connect the sleep effect with the caster.
Meh, just stand where the only one who can see you is your victim. ;)
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More to the point since the hex in question has NO verbal, somatic or material component and can't be identified with Spellcraft there is NO way for them to know the witch did anything.Knowledge Arcana will let you tell if a stone wall was made from magic or rock, I don't think its much of a stretch to connect the sleep effect with the caster.
Really?? So what you're saying is during a hectic battle one of your friends drops unconscious and starts snoring so you know he's been put to sleep. You look around the field of battle and of the unknown number of people there you just know that guy standing over there with the crossbow put him to sleep. Even though he obviously didn't just cast a spell, or move, or say a word, or do anything other than look around the battlefield probably for someone to shoot with said crossbow.
I applaud this guys perception, he must be a whiz at poker.
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Really?? So what you're saying is during a hectic battle one of your friends drops unconscious and starts snoring so you know he's been put to sleep. You look around the field of battle and of the unknown number of people there you just know that guy standing over there with the crossbow put him to sleep. Even though he obviously didn't just cast a spell, or move, or say a word, or do anything other than look around the battlefield probably for someone to shoot with said crossbow.
Well, by process of elimination the barbarian with a sword is hacking people, the cleric is busy reattaching a kidney, and the other guy in robes just shot fire out of his keister.
So by process of elimination you shoot the harmless looking one
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More to the point since the hex in question has NO verbal, somatic or material component and can't be identified with Spellcraft there is NO way for them to know the witch did anything.Knowledge Arcana will let you tell if a stone wall was made from magic or rock, I don't think its much of a stretch to connect the sleep effect with the caster.
Really?? So what you're saying is during a hectic battle one of your friends drops unconscious and starts snoring so you know he's been put to sleep. You look around the field of battle and of the unknown number of people there you just know that guy standing over there with the crossbow put him to sleep. Even though he obviously didn't just cast a spell, or move, or say a word, or do anything other than look around the battlefield probably for someone to shoot with said crossbow.
I applaud this guys perception, he must be a whiz at poker.
The alternative is having PCs wait for the witch to try and sleep everything, because hey, no one can tell what he is doing, right? It makes sense that people could figure it out (with a check of some sort).
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Really?? So what you're saying is during a hectic battle one of your friends drops unconscious and starts snoring so you know he's been put to sleep. You look around the field of battle and of the unknown number of people there you just know that guy standing over there with the crossbow put him to sleep. Even though he obviously didn't just cast a spell, or move, or say a word, or do anything other than look around the battlefield probably for someone to shoot with said crossbow.
I applaud this guys perception, he must be a whiz at poker.
Sarcasm aside, you also can spellcraft a stilled, silent quickened spell. It doesn't list supernatural abilities though. I *can* see it being allowed with knowlege arcana though. "That wasn't a spell, so it must be X" type logic
Venture-Captain, Alabama—Birmingham
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Really?? So what you're saying is during a hectic battle one of your friends drops unconscious and starts snoring so you know he's been put to sleep. You look around the field of battle and of the unknown number of people there you just know that guy standing over there with the crossbow put him to sleep. Even though he obviously didn't just cast a spell, or move, or say a word, or do anything other than look around the battlefield probably for someone to shoot with said crossbow.Well, by process of elimination the barbarian with a sword is hacking people, the cleric is busy reattaching a kidney, and the other guy in robes just shot fire out of his keister.
So by process of elimination you shoot the harmless looking one
Then I saw little Tiffany. I'm thinking, y'know, eight-year-old white girl, middle of the ghetto, bunch of monsters, this time of night with quantum physics books? She about to start some s***, Zed.
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Then I saw little Tiffany. I'm thinking, y'know, eight-year-old white girl, middle of the ghetto, bunch of monsters, this time of night with quantum physics books? She about to start some s***, Zed.Really?? So what you're saying is during a hectic battle one of your friends drops unconscious and starts snoring so you know he's been put to sleep. You look around the field of battle and of the unknown number of people there you just know that guy standing over there with the crossbow put him to sleep. Even though he obviously didn't just cast a spell, or move, or say a word, or do anything other than look around the battlefield probably for someone to shoot with said crossbow.Well, by process of elimination the barbarian with a sword is hacking people, the cleric is busy reattaching a kidney, and the other guy in robes just shot fire out of his keister.
So by process of elimination you shoot the harmless looking one
muahahahaha
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My NPC's play their int. And animals, being none too inteligent, just go for the tastiest guy. Metal isn't tasty, so its usually the lightly armored ones they go for. Now, if someone gets in the way, they'll fight it. I usually have animals run from magic ("Do I know what is hurting me? No? I should run then...").
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My NPC's play their int. And animals, being none too inteligent, just go for the tastiest guy. Metal isn't tasty, so its usually the lightly armored ones they go for. Now, if someone gets in the way, they'll fight it. I usually have animals run from magic ("Do I know what is hurting me? No? I should run then...").
And this is the reason my witch will be running around in full plate armor with a huge holy symbol of a lawful good deity on his chest with a greatsword that shoots bolts of holy death.
Disguise hex/Hat of Disguise is a beautiful thing, no one expects the paladin to be casting spells or throwing Hexes in the middle of combat.
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I just need to know one thing about playing a witch in Pathfinder Society...If she weighs the same as a duck, is she made of wood?
If (Weighs same as duck) = Yes, Then (She is a witch).
If (She is a witch) = Yes, Then (Burn her!).If (Weighs same as duck) = No, Then (She is not a witch).
If (She is not a witch) = Yes, Then (Add fake nose and retry).
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My NPC's play their int. And animals, being none too inteligent, just go for the tastiest guy. Metal isn't tasty, so its usually the lightly armored ones they go for. Now, if someone gets in the way, they'll fight it. I usually have animals run from magic ("Do I know what is hurting me? No? I should run then...").And this is the reason my witch will be running around in full plate armor with a huge holy symbol of a lawful good deity on his chest with a greatsword that shoots bolts of holy death.
Disguise hex/Hat of Disguise is a beautiful thing, no one expects the paladin to be casting spells or throwing Hexes in the middle of combat.
There is a "fake full plate" disguise in UE that is designed for casters to pretend to be fighters. Don't remember the name off hand.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Incidental to the original thread, I did recommend a player switch PCs for an adventure this weekend at GenCon.
If you know about the adventure with the haunted house on a hill, you know that paladin PCs shut that adventure down in some ways. So, when a fellow sat at my table with his paladin, I couselled him that, while he *could* play the character, doing so wouldn't be much fun. So he went and picked up a 7th-level pre-gen Merisiel. Who then got chewed up and killed by a threat the paladin would have scoffed at.