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As I reviewed the rules for ship-to-ship combat as I prepared for the second AP, I was shocked to find rules for everything from morale to consumption to miles traveled daily was missing. And the ever so important ship positions. Looking at these rules, well, who needs a Captain? It's a true anarchist pirate ship! No one is in charge here! The mob rules all!
Jade Regent had such great rules covering these, and so I wonder, was there such a backlash from people hating them that they were tossed for Skull & Shackles?
Meanwhile, this is the part me and mine were looking forward to the most. I had previously ran a pirate game about two years ago in my own game world, and drew out a very large region map on graphing paper that helped the players determine their destination, aprox arrival time, the supplies they thought they'd need, etc, etc. Without those rules or even a large reliable map of the Shackles, I find it hard to motivate my players, and they heartily agree. Who needs to keep track of food? Not us!
Has anyone come up with rules to fill in these missing gaps? (I've thought of just using Jade Regent's, where they can apply) Is there a good map of the Shackles that I could present to the players? And lastly, are these rules somewhere that I forgot to look?
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Anything is better than nothing. I'm pretty okay with booty, for example, being just a generic term for 'stuff', as we had difficulty tracking specific items, and the head slap 'duh' moment upon reading the booty rules was...well, a duh moment. Simplification good. Completely ignoring things like consumption, however, seems...odd.
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Paizo published the "Islands" of the Shackles map (as a free-download Pdf) a while ago
Yeah it only covers the Shackles ....so, feel free to patch it up southwards, at least to Sargava, and northwards to Illizmagorti ? Correntyn ? Riddleport ?
Nothing at all is said about seaground, reefs, tides and currents for any part of it, and inhouse information is contradictory (AP-III'S Matt Goodall assumes reefs and outcroppings within the Eye, AP-VI's Nelson does not and assumes free sailing ), so patch to your leisure.
No rules for morale and crews discipline etc after the initial AP. Call it an oversight. I would assume some constant Diplomacy or Intimidation rolls to keep morale "in check", modified by amount of plunder and length of journey. Bardic performance's keeping shipboard live half-way entertaining ( say through stories, acts or music ) might help too. and yeah, what good is a decent pirate story without the crew becoming restless or even mutinous ?
No rules for navigation - and one may honestly doubt that landbound Survival is any good, once you are out of sight of the coasts, meaning no fixed points on the horizon.... so pick up some astronomy. No really ! No deepwater navigation without some precise astronomy or really excellent clocks.
No real rules for wind and environment either, but there are some old 3.5 rules in FGG and GR products about crew, Navigation and environment (and methinks, Kenzer's "Salt and Seadogs") which you might want to take a look at. Take a good look at the beaufort Scale (wikipedia it) for the relation betweeen sea effects and wind strength... which in turn will make conditions much more descriptive.
Alderac had a series of "Swashbuckling" Adventures/settings out, too. Plus the "Pirate Nations" has some basica rules for sailing in adversity, shipboard provisoning etc. and a lot of nice background information on pirate groups and choices, plus some smaller scale habrours and settlements.
"Buccaneer's of Freeport" (GR) has some nicely set up Pirate groups to offer, which one can take some good hints from for different group of Pirates
Privateer Press' "Five Fingers" setting should be worth gold for organizing and running pirate ports and trade.
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Paizo published the "Islands" of the Shackles map (as a free-download Pdf) a while ago
I missed that! Is this what you are referring to?
I am happier than happy to have this; I needn't flesh out North or South. It'll be getting printed quite soon; thank you for pointing it out!
I guess it is^^
+1 to vikingson for naming the other gaming products to give sailing more crunch. Don't know if I'll be able to pick up any of these but it is a very good start.
Am also keeping tabs on Chris Kenney's thread for sandboxing the Shackles.
Should I ever have time, may look for/come up with a use for the Appraise skill and the Leadership feat. And crew number. Something like every multiple the larger crew has over the smaller crew grants its officers some bonus in the defining officer combat. So > crew = better but also = more consumption.
Someone else shared their idea of implementing shares rather than just buying off a crew with 1 plunder, regardless of the size of the crew. So more crew also means < plunder for the PCs. But if I did that, I would also allow plunder lost to crew shares also contribute to infamy as said crew is seen blowing their scratch willy-nilly in port and boasting of the deeds that got them their shares.
Anyone play the Z-Man boardgame Merchants and Marauders? (Or Sid Meier's Pirates? I suspect that game inspired both the board Z-Man board game and the S&S abstraction of crew combat.) I suspect my players will want to risk a hit on their reps, take on a bit of a target and become pirate/*merchants*. So a way of broadly defining the plunder and a simple system of supply/demand per port might be useful, while avoiding or discouraging simply having the PCs buy low/sell high their way to success (without resorting to piracy, that is).
Also may track Infamy by nationality as well. If the PCs rack up threshold levels of Infamy per nation, that nation may well sponsor/launch pirate/bounty hunters against specifically the PCs. This may "unlock" tougher ships on the sea, increasing both the risk and the pay-off (if they can successfully claim a ship-of-the-line as a prize) etc.
Oh, which triggers and idea for encounter: PCs come across a navy vessel on the hunt for an NPC pirate. As the bounty hunter vessel/squadron/fleet is on a specific mission, they don't necessarily want to waste lives/resources taking on the PCs. The PCs can take a reward of helping the navy capture the pirate or can earn a pirate ally for tipping of the pirate and/or sinking the pursuing navy.
Someone else shared their idea of implementing shares rather than just buying off a crew with 1 plunder, regardless of the size of the crew. So more crew also means < plunder for the PCs. But if I did that, I would also allow plunder lost to crew shares also contribute to infamy as said crew is seen blowing their scratch willy-nilly in port and boasting of the deeds that got them their shares.Anyone play the Z-Man boardgame Merchants and Marauders? (Or Sid Meier's Pirates? I suspect that game inspired both the board Z-Man board game and the S&S abstraction of crew combat.) I suspect my players will want to risk a hit on their reps, take on a bit of a target and become pirate/*merchants*. So a way of broadly defining the plunder and a simple system of supply/demand per port might be useful, while avoiding or discouraging simply having the PCs buy low/sell high their way to success (without resorting to piracy, that is).
Also may track Infamy by nationality as well.
uhh, I got plussed^^
Been playing "Pirates" almost continuously since the original in the early (1992 ?) nineties^^ and folks always wonder how and why I know the Carribean's ports so well.
We actually play with plunder and shares for the crew, roughly half the plunder goes to the crew (and this counts to establish infamy), while the rest of the stuff goes for the officers and Ship-maintenance (player's pool). anything else . Ripe receipt for mutiny. A bit easier on the loot because the only sail a Chelian naval cutter, with a relatively small crew, and having a hardcore following through the "leadership" feat
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I cobbled together some rules for my players once they hit #2.
In addition to having a ship statistic sheet, they'll have a crew sheet. This uses ideas from Jade Regent, Kingmaker, Dudemeister's stuff and Mongoose Publishing's Open Combat Rules.
Level:
Crew Size:
Hit Points:
Consumption:
Offense:
Defense
Morale:
--Unrest
Teamwork Feats - Using the same rules Dudemeister used (1 teamwork feat granted to PC's per 2 crew levels. Prerequisites must be met by at least 1 PC. The bonus feat is only given to those meeting its prerequisites)
Tactics - Identical to Kingmaker tactics. Crew gains a number of these equal to 1/2 its crew level starting at level 2.
Improvements: These are the same as in Kingmaker with the following changes to cost:
Improved Weapons (1 plunder per 5 crew)
Magic Weapons (5 plunder per 5 crew)
Improved Armor (1 plunder per 10 crew)
Magic Armor (5 plunder per 10 crew)
Healing Potions (1 plunder per 5 crew)
Level: Equal to the PC's level -1
Crew Size: Determined by recruiting and how many crew you have on board. For every 20 crew a ship has, increase offense and defense by 1.
Offense: Offense is equal to the army's level.
Defense: Defense is equal to the army's level + 10
Hit Points: Hit points are equal to the army's level times 5 plus plus crew size. Example: The Man's Promise with a crew of 20 and a starting level of 2 would have 30 HP
Consumption: The consumption score of a ship represents how much plunder the player's must pay the crew per week. The consumption score is equal to 1 per 20 crew members on the ship plus 1 per 5 crew levels.
For example, a crew of 20 level 1 crew would cost 1 plunder a week. However, a crew of 40 level 5 crew would cost 3 plunder a week.
Temporary Combat Modifiers to Offense/Defense
The Captain can make a Knowledge (Warfare) check against the enemy ship equal to DC10+Enemy Captain's BAB prior to engaging in combat. If successful, the captain creates a battle plan which gives a bonus to either Offense or Defense (chosen prior to rolling) equal to 1 per 4 ranks in Knowledge (Warfare). This bonus lasts for a number of rounds equal to 1 per 8 ranks in Knowledge (Warfare) the Captain has. The Ship's Mate may use Aid Another on this action.
Few crews want to fight to the end, even if their captains are doing well in combat. Morale checks are made whenever the circumstances listed in the table below are met. The DC required to be rolled for each circumstance is also given.
[This was in a table, not sure how to do that in a forum though]
Unit Hit Points reduced to 1/2 DC 15
Unit hit points reduced to 1/4 DC 20
Unit hit points reduced to 1/3 DC 10
of current score in one round
Unit suffers more damage in a DC 15
round than enemy
Unit is hit by enemy that DC 20
has twice as much or more hp
Morale is calculated by using the ship captain's charisma modifier plus 1 morale for every four crew levels the crew has. For example, a ship with a 14 Charisma Captain and level 3 would only have a +2 morale.
Miscellaneous Modifiers
If a ship's crew is larger than the attacking or defending ship's crew, it gets a +2 morale modifier for the battle.
A player may expend an AOE spell that provides a morale bonus to provide a bonus to Morale equal to the spell level of the spell used. For example, a cleric using bless would provide a +1 bonus to morale.
A player may make a Diplomacy check before combat (DC 10+ crew level + enemy captain's level) to grant a +1 bonus to morale per 4 ranks in Diplomacy for a number of rounds equal to 1 per 8 ranks in Diplomacy.
Unrest is gained whenever the crew fails a morale check, is reduced to 25% of its hit points, suffers 1/4 of the total crew in casualties in a single combat or does not perform some "pirate" activity in a month's time. More than one unrest can be gained if the crew is not paid plunder. There are rules for convincing the crew to take less plunder. A success on this will only increase unrest by 1. A failure will increase unrest by an amount equal to the plunder they were to be paid.
Reducing Unrest: Unrest is reduced by 1 whenever the crew gains a level. A DC 20 Morale check can be made to reduce unrest by 1 when the following events occur: the PC's capture a ship or spend a day in port resting. Giving away plunder to the crew also reduces unrest by 1.
Mutiny: A mutiny can occur whenever the ship's Unrest score equals or exceeds its Morale score. When this is the case, the crew takes a -1 penalty to its defense, offense and morale checks for every point of unrest that exceeds the morale score (minimum 1. So if it only equals morale, the penalty is -1). A crew that is on the verge of mutiny must be calmed with a Morale check (DC 20 + the ship's current unrest score) each day. If it fails this check, Unrest increases by one and a number of plunder equal to the amount of unrest over the morale score is destroyed or stolen. If there is no plunder remaining or if unrest is double that of morale, the crew leaves the PC's at the nearest landmass.
I made an excel sheet (very basic, no macros) for the PC's to use for Crew and the Ship, although I've no idea how to link such things.
Edit: Forgot to include this.
Basic Combat - During a boarding action, the ship's crew will take its turn during the Captain's turn. It can choose to use one of the tactics it has or attack. If it attacks, it rolls an Offense check against the enemy ship's Defense. On a success it deals damage equal to their Offense roll minus the enemy's defense.
Thanks for sharing that also, DMRaven. I may end up borrowing some of that.
2e's Of Ships and the Sea is still the best seafaring supplement to date, AFAIC.
I'll have to see if I can find that, Arnywn.
On a random note: I made a mistake on the morale rules for consumption. It should only be monthly, not weekly! That'd be impossible for PC's to keep up with.
Someone else shared their idea of implementing shares rather than just buying off a crew with 1 plunder, regardless of the size of the crew. So more crew also means < plunder for the PCs. But if I did that, I would also allow plunder lost to crew shares also contribute to infamy as said crew is seen blowing their scratch willy-nilly in port and boasting of the deeds that got them their shares.
Here is my original posting on the subject of shares. I like the infamy boost idea Uri.