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Unarmed Fighter(Brawler) / Monk Build Advice


Advice

51 to 83 of 83 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

also, what do you mean by "on your turn, dragon + boar. On their turn, Crane + snake." to me that sounds as though you could declare one stance combo at the beginning of your turn and then declare that you are changing it at the end of your turn, but that doesn't jive with the rules i've seen in terms of needing a swift action (of which we only have one per round) to change out a single style.

Am i reading your thoughts wrong? or am i missing something else?


here's another question. if one has crane style and snake style active and uses crane riposte to block an attack, does that count as a missed attack for snake fang?


if anyone's still looking at this thread (maybe i should just move some of this over to the rules section), if one uses the sense motive piece of snake style as an immediate action to dodge an attack, then they wouldn't get the second attack from snake fang if their AoO hit since that is an immediate action and one had already been used that round, correct?


Instead of Unarmed Brawler:

L1 - Unarmed Fighter ("An unarmed fighter is proficient with all monk weapons, including exotic monk weapons.") - take Dodge feat for L1 if you want Crane Style at L2, Combat Reflexes feat at L1 if you want Panther Style at L2, or whatever for Snapping Turtle style at L2. Pick a style other than these three as your bonus style for L1 (I like Dragon Style because "You ignore difficult terrain when you charge, run, or withdraw.") for your Unarmed Fighter bonus feat. You get Improved Unarmed Combat as a bonus feat.

L2 - Unarmed Fighter - pick up Crane Style, Panther Style, or Snapping Turtle Style (the only 3 you can pick up at level 2).

L3 - Drunken 'Master of Many Styles' Qinggong Monk. Get a bonus feat one down the chain as one of your two previously chosen styles. (3 points in acrobatics at this point). Stunning Fist bonus feat.

L4 - Drunken 'Master of Many Styles' Qinggong Monk. Get a bonus feat - the last one in the chain of one of your chosen styles.

For me, I prefer (a) Dragon Style and (b) Crane Style, Crane Wing, and Crane Riposte.

The best weapon, using this method, is Nine Section Whip (8g) ("Benefit: This weapon can be wielded as a single-handed weapon, a two-handed weapon, or in pairs.") - while fighting defensively, +1 shield bonus to AC, +2 bluff skill bonus to feint in combat, and trip.

The above character option means always fighting defensively.
(-1 Attack, +3 AC, +1 shield bonus to AC, +2 dodge bonus to AC, auto-block the first melee that would hit you each around and aoo the person would have hit you)

*Kirin Style is also really good for high int characters, if taken as the L1, L3, and L4 feat chain.


you beat me to it. i started to map out some thoughts based on the past suggestions about staggering the MoM levels, and i realized that i think folks were forgetting that brawlers don't start with improved unarmed, so it wasn't quite working out as advertised (or at least as i understood it to be advertised). Using unarmed fighter seems to make more sense with that, especially with the bonus style feat. here's a question/hope though.
is there any chance that that bonus style feat at lvl 1 can also be used to for the next feat on a style's path if you already have the style feat? on the one hand, they're all located in the "style feats" section, but on the other, the bonus feats for MoMs explicitly talks about being able to do that and the unarmed fighter does not.
- just hoping.


I've wondered that, myself. The Master of Many Styles bonus feat feature does seem to make a distinction between "X Style" and the further dependent feats in the chain. On the other hand, in the book and on the PRD they're all listed under "style feats" and the Unarmed Fighter bonus feat feature doesn't specifically call out "the first feat in a style chain."

Lacking any other context, I'd probably lean towards the permissive interpretation. But then I lean more towards permissive in most situations like this.


elgabalawi wrote:

also, what do you mean by "on your turn, dragon + boar. On their turn, Crane + snake." to me that sounds as though you could declare one stance combo at the beginning of your turn and then declare that you are changing it at the end of your turn, but that doesn't jive with the rules i've seen in terms of needing a swift action (of which we only have one per round) to change out a single style.

Am i reading your thoughts wrong? or am i missing something else?

Generally, you're right. You can't quite juggle two every round, but there is the Combat Style Master feat that let's you swap 'your style' as a free action. There's an argument to be made that that would allow the MoMs to effectively swap both styles (The language of fuse styles is that you fuse two styles into one...) but even if you're dm doesn't agree with that interpretation, you can swap them around as best suits the situation. At the beginning of combat you start in one automatically, then use the free action to activate the other. Make your attacks, then at the end of your turn use the swift action to switch to the defensive set. On your next turn you swift back to the offensive set. Now at the end of your turn you can only free swap one of them, so you put in Snake since it has more potential.

The biggest issue is if you actually need to use snake it eats up your swift actions for swapping (the game is rife with over-using swift actions for a lot of classes).

It doesn't really matter that you don't start with IUS. You're a fighter. Use a sword or a big stick for two levels. Or brass knuckles if you really abhor the idea of totting a 'real' weapon around. I personally dig an asian style longspear because reach is cool, and you can still kick people in the face with one. (and later if you get combat patrol, it allows you to take a move action when someone provokes from you, and you can use that move to run around provoking from all his buddies before you stab him in the face with your spear)

I don't like Unarmed Fighter. You effectively waste a bonus feat with the IUS. There's an argument to be made for taking the subsequent feats, but I think it's weak. The language in MoMs makes it pretty clear they consider the first feat in the chain to be the 'style feat.' Also, none of the subsequent feats do anything without being in the style anyway...

The Brawler keeps medium armor, does more damage, and has better abilities. (unless you want to be a grappler, but you shouldn't. It's the single most annoying mechanic in the game)


thanks for the input. i'm still not very familiar with much of the additional content, so i didn't know about the Combat Style Master feat or the Combat Patrol thing.

in terms of not having to use unarmed early with a brawler, yeah, that makes sense. my worry was that you don't get as much from the MoMs bonus feats if you aren't able to take a style feat before taking your MoMs levels ('cause i think all the ones i'm interested in - if not All entirely - require improved unarmed as a prereq). Does that make sense?


elgabalawi wrote:

thanks for the input. i'm still not very familiar with much of the additional content, so i didn't know about the Combat Style Master feat or the Combat Patrol thing.

in terms of not having to use unarmed early with a brawler, yeah, that makes sense. my worry was that you don't get as much from the MoMs bonus feats if you aren't able to take a style feat before taking your MoMs levels ('cause i think all the ones i'm interested in - if not All entirely - require improved unarmed as a prereq). Does that make sense?

Yeah, definitely. Which is why I said you should stagger the MoMs levels.

You want to buy the style feat with a normal feat, then use the bonus feats for the last feat in the chain. The only style feat you can start with at 1 is Crane, so if you want to go Crane that's not a bad option. I'm not as big a fan of crane, but that's purely personal preference. I like the idea of snake+combat reflexes better. (although snake and crane together could potentially get you 3 attacks when an enemy swings once, which is pretty cool. Panther+snake is fun for running around provoking, but a GM may just stop taking AOOs on you if you pull that too much, so I wouldn't want to build around it.

I haven't yet started playing this character, and I keep changing the build around, but I'm currently thinking something like bellow. Has a bit more offense, less defense than if I went the crane/snake route, but it just seems more fun to me at the moment...

Human Brawler8/moms2

1. Brawler1: combat reflexes, Two-weapon fighting, power attack
2. Brawler2: Weapon focus(unarmed)
3. MoMs1: snake style, snake fang
4. Brawler3: close combatant (+1/+3 unarmed)
5. MoMs2: Boar style, Boar Shred
6. Brawler4: weapon specialization
7. Brawler5: Dragon Style
8. Brawler6: Dragon Ferocity

Cool thing about this character is there are so ways to build it that would be fun/effective. This is a more offensive-focused build, but you can easily go more defensive with crane, or swap some feats for improved/greater trip/vicious stomp/combat patrol for a more battlefield control build (if your gm uses a lot of humanoids). It's going to be very hard to actually chose a build to play, lol.


that's about what i was fiddling with after you originally pointed out putting MoMs later and staggering them, i think i was just getting greedy and wanting to get a style feat in that first lvl or two of fighter so that i could potentially grab two feats down that style path at lvl 3 :-)

like you i need to hammer out what style combos i want (and unlike you i need to continue getting more familiar with all the associated feats and rules)


oh, and i think someone here mentioned needing three lvls of monk to get monastic legacy. are you planning on making that happen? or do you not think it's worth it?


i promise to stop with the questions eventually . . .
in the meantime, do you mind clarifying some things about crane style and snake style/fang.

1. does using crane wing to deflect an attack count as a miss to trigger snake fang?

2. i'm assuming that if one "uses" snake fang - meaning uses the immediate action to get sense motive for the AC - then you can't use the immediate action for another attack if your AoO from snake fang hits. correct?

thanks so much.

wait, and were is this asian style long spear? i've been dying to find a way to make a monk with a spear for reach, but haven't figured how best to do it yet. is there a monk weapon with reach that i missed? and is it one handed somehow (because aren't a bunch of the style feats needing that?)


Haha, yeah, I tried to do the same. You technically can get crane style and crane wing at level 1, but wing would do nothing, so that would be fairly cheesy lol.

I wouldn't consider monastic legacy until you had 8 levels of fighter. That would push you to d10. But even then I think there are better things to spends feats on at that point...


elgabalawi wrote:

i promise to stop with the questions eventually . . .

in the meantime, do you mind clarifying some things about crane style and snake style/fang.

1. does using crane wing to deflect an attack count as a miss to trigger snake fang?

2. i'm assuming that if one "uses" snake fang - meaning uses the immediate action to get sense motive for the AC - then you can't use the immediate action for another attack if your AoO from snake fang hits. correct?

thanks so much.

wait, and were is this asian style long spear? i've been dying to find a way to make a monk with a spear for reach, but haven't figured how best to do it yet. is there a monk weapon with reach that i missed? and is it one handed somehow (because aren't a bunch of the style feats needing that?)

lol, you posted while I still had my window open...

1. I would say so. 'Miss' isn't defined by the rules, so you kinda have to go by common sense. In my mind 'miss' means 'not hit.' Others have argued that a 'deflected' attack is not technically a miss, but nothing in the rules actually specifies the difference.

2. That is correct. And yeah, it's dumb.

I just meant asian style as far as the look. I actually will probably use a guisarme and just describe it as an asian spear. (think Dynasty warriors) There are some pretty cool asian weapons (on the srd listed under 'eastern weapons.') Most of the good ones require a feat, though, and aren't worth it for the unarmed guy...


you are potentially blowing my mind. are you planning on going with a reach weapon in the later lvls too? or is that just before you take your MoM level. If it's yes to the first one, i'm going to come back with more questions : )


elgabalawi wrote:
you are potentially blowing my mind. are you planning on going with a reach weapon in the later lvls too? or is that just before you take your MoM level. If it's yes to the first one, i'm going to come back with more questions : )

Yeah, I likely will. As I said I'm still messing with the build, but one option is to take Combat Patrol, which would make mean he threatens to 15'. Then when somebody provokes combat patrol let's you take a move, provoking from other enemies, and kicking them in the head for their trouble. This means all your offense is done on their turn, which is kinda interesting. I would probably take the trip line if I do that as well, since my GM favors human enemies...


intriguing. i'll have to sit down when i have time to actually figure out how all that would work, but it sounds like you'd still be mostly attacking with unarmed while holding the spear. is that right?

i dig the idea of a monk using a reach weapon (using no or very light armor as well), but i haven't figured out how i want to do it yet. it seems like either i have to go through backflips to be able to flurry with a reach weapon (for instance taking a cleric lvl with a deity who's favored weapon is a reach weapon so that i can take crusader's flurry later and probably starting with a lvl of fighter because starting as a cleric with a BAB of +0 means i can't take any of the combat feats i'll need along the way) or basically being a fighter who just chooses to wear no or light armor, which feels kind of weird. *shrug*


This thread is entirely too long for me to want read all of it so this may have been suggested already but...
Consider the possibilities of going all monk with a 2 level dip into barbarian for the rage a uncanny dodge. With the help of some items my unarmed damage is ridiculous and about to get bigger when I start using potions of strong jaw in our next session. And my AC is through the roof!


elgabalawi wrote:

intriguing. i'll have to sit down when i have time to actually figure out how all that would work, but it sounds like you'd still be mostly attacking with unarmed while holding the spear. is that right?

i dig the idea of a monk using a reach weapon (using no or very light armor as well), but i haven't figured out how i want to do it yet. it seems like either i have to go through backflips to be able to flurry with a reach weapon (for instance taking a cleric lvl with a deity who's favored weapon is a reach weapon so that i can take crusader's flurry later and probably starting with a lvl of fighter because starting as a cleric with a BAB of +0 means i can't take any of the combat feats i'll need along the way) or basically being a fighter who just chooses to wear no or light armor, which feels kind of weird. *shrug*

Yeah, it's unfortunate there isn't more support for the light armored fighter concept. You only need one level of monk to get wis to ac, though, so that helps if you really want to go unarmored. I like light armor even though it's not optimal.

I'm not a fan of the cleric option for the reach flurry. Monk already has medium bab, another level with no bab hurts. Imo the main benefit of the reach is the area you threaten, but your attack bonus is going to blow on AoOs. (Will be decent with flurry, but you don't really gain anything by flurrying from one square away).

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Modules Subscriber
Misunderstood Monk wrote:

This thread is entirely too long for me to want read all of it so this may have been suggested already but...

Consider the possibilities of going all monk with a 2 level dip into barbarian for the rage a uncanny dodge. With the help of some items my unarmed damage is ridiculous and about to get bigger when I start using potions of strong jaw in our next session. And my AC is through the roof!

Monk must be Lawful, Barbarian must be non-Lawful. You are getting an alignment hit in there and some of the abilities don't work...

ie Rage doesn't work if Lawful.


W. John Hare wrote:
Misunderstood Monk wrote:

This thread is entirely too long for me to want read all of it so this may have been suggested already but...

Consider the possibilities of going all monk with a 2 level dip into barbarian for the rage a uncanny dodge. With the help of some items my unarmed damage is ridiculous and about to get bigger when I start using potions of strong jaw in our next session. And my AC is through the roof!

Monk must be Lawful, Barbarian must be non-Lawful. You are getting an alignment hit in there and some of the abilities don't work...

ie Rage doesn't work if Lawful.

Not all monks have to be lawful, the martial artist for one doesn't.


Whisperknives wrote:
Not all monks have to be lawful, the martial artist for one doesn't.

But the MoMs/fighter beats the snot out of the martial artist/barb... =p

Shadow Lodge

Wild Stalker is an option as well, since they can be lawful(ranger archetype), but it's likely you don't want to wait 4 levels for the rage ability to kick in.

Did a monk/fighter build thingie a while back, but had him start as an unarmed fighter for one level before dipping to the Master of Many Styles so that Dragon Ferocity became available as early as possible. By second level omething like 1d6+5 with just the back of one's hand is pretty funny. And that's with only 16 str and no traits or magic items of Power Attack in play. Unarmed Fighter does seems weaker than Brawler, but I built this for PFS, there's nothing stopping him from getting Gloves of Dueling eventually. Starts of less powerful than Brawler, but gets better eventually.

Didn't build him to be higher than sixth level, but I guess it could go, say, the aforementioned raging ranger archetype after getting weapon training through the fighter levels. Rage has some good synergy with Dragon Style feats and is one of the easiest things to buff with magic items. Lots of bang for your buck thanks to the furious (APG) and courageous (UE) enchantments, for instance and courageous doesn't even need to be on your main weapon to function. +1 courageous armor spikes ftw!

Wild Stalker also gains rage powers, so those brawler and improved brawler powers become available. Not to mention animal fury, if you want to go grappling.

I wouldn't go changing your build, since it seems to be in good shape. Just throwing this out there. Hope it gives ideas to someone.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
TGMaxMaxer wrote:
The feats in the Snake chain specifically state that when using snake style, if an opponent misses, not only do you get the one AoO you get a second attack as an immeditate action.

That is true. But you cannot get two immediate actions in one round. So if you use Snake Style (referenced below in spoiler), to "[...]spend an immediate action to make a Sense Motive check. You can use the result as your AC or touch AC[...]", then you cannot in the same round (if the opponent misses you) spend ANOTHER immediate action to "[...]make another unarmed strike against the same opponent." So it is either an AC spike or an extra attack.

Snake Style and Snake Fang:

Snake Style:
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on Sense Motive checks, and you can deal piercing damage with your unarmed strikes. While using the Snake Style feat, when an opponent targets you with a melee or ranged attack, you can spend an immediate action to make a Sense Motive check. You can use the result as your AC or touch AC against that attack. You must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed.

Snake Fang:
Benefit: While using the Snake Style feat, when an opponent’s attack misses you, you can make an unarmed strike against that opponent as an attack of opportunity. If this attack of opportunity hits, you can spend an immediate action to make another unarmed strike against the same opponent.


What I meant is that snake fang for the first attack procs all the time. The double tap takes an immediate action, and the sense motive to AC does as well, but you don't have to boost AC to get the free attack on a miss.

with 2k spent on pearls of power, or 1500 spent on wands, you can get ac of 26+ by 1-3rd levels, and then with a Panther1-2/Snake1-3 build you run thru a crowd, get wis bonus attacks with panther retaliate strike, and snake fang attacks as well on anyone who misses, at 5th level my MoMS gets only 1 attack of his own, but gets 8 attacks when they swing. And at low levels his 26AC is pretty hard to hit, so i usually get them all.

IF you get to 8th for 3 styles, you can grab crane too for even more goodness counter attack goodness, or Boar for when you proc and hit with both for bleed. And an Agile AMoF makes you slightly less MAD, while doing decent damage.

Note: playing this from 1 up is a pain, but if you can start from 3-5 or higher it rocks.


W. John Hare wrote:
Misunderstood Monk wrote:

This thread is entirely too long for me to want read all of it so this may have been suggested already but...

Consider the possibilities of going all monk with a 2 level dip into barbarian for the rage a uncanny dodge. With the help of some items my unarmed damage is ridiculous and about to get bigger when I start using potions of strong jaw in our next session. And my AC is through the roof!

Monk must be Lawful, Barbarian must be non-Lawful. You are getting an alignment hit in there and some of the abilities don't work...

ie Rage doesn't work if Lawful.

Our group hand waves the alignment restrictions. Because they're dumb.


elgabalawi wrote:

you beat me to it. i started to map out some thoughts based on the past suggestions about staggering the MoM levels, and i realized that i think folks were forgetting that brawlers don't start with improved unarmed, so it wasn't quite working out as advertised (or at least as i understood it to be advertised). Using unarmed fighter seems to make more sense with that, especially with the bonus style feat. here's a question/hope though.

is there any chance that that bonus style feat at lvl 1 can also be used to for the next feat on a style's path if you already have the style feat? on the one hand, they're all located in the "style feats" section, but on the other, the bonus feats for MoMs explicitly talks about being able to do that and the unarmed fighter does not.
- just hoping.

Unarmed Fighter:

"At 1st level, a unarmed fighter gains the Improved Unarmed Strike feat and any single style feat as a bonus feat. The unarmed fighter need not meet all the prerequisites of the style feat he chooses, but style feats that grant additional uses of the Elemental Fist feat cannot be taken until the unarmed fighter has that feat."

Unarmed Fighters can take any Style Feat.

***The part that is unclear is if you take something like Tiger Claw: can you still enter Tiger Style without Tiger Style feat?

"For example, if you have feats associated with Mantis Style and Tiger Style, you can use a swift action to adopt Tiger Style at the start of one turn, and then can use other feats that have Tiger Style as a prerequisite."

Master of Many Styles:
"At 1st level, 2nd level, and every four levels thereafter, a master of many styles may select a bonus style feat or the Elemental Fist feat. He does not have to meet the prerequisites of that feat, except the Elemental Fist feat. Alternatively, a master of many styles may choose a feat in that style’s feat path (such as Earth Child Topple) as one of these bonus feats if he already has the appropriate style feat (such as Earth Child Style). The master of many styles does not need to meet any other prerequisite of the feat in the style’s feat path."


Here is my Build using Monk 1 and fighter:

Grapple Master
Male Versatile Human (Mwangi) Fighter (Unarmed Fighter) 9 Monk (Tetori) 1
LG Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +7; Senses Perception +14
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 23, touch 20, flat-footed 18 (+3 armor, +5 Dex)
hp 85 (9d10+1d8+10)
Fort +9, Ref +10, Will +10; +2 vs. exhausted, fatigued, staggered, or temporary penalties to ability scores, +1 vs. exhausted, fatigued, staggered, or temporary penalties to ability scores
Defensive Abilities harsh training +2; DR 4/lethal
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee Unarmed strike +17/+12 (1d6+16/x2)
Special Attacks trick throw, weapon training +2
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 25, Dex 20, Con 12, Int 11, Wis 20, Cha 9
Base Atk +9; CMB +16 (+23 Grappling); CMD 36 (45 vs. Dirty Trick, 48 vs. Grapple)
Feats Ability Focus +2 DC Stunning Fist, Bonebreaker, Greater Grapple, Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed Strike, Jawbreaker, Mantis Style, Pinning Rend, Power Attack -3/+6, Rapid Grappler, Stunning Fist (4/day) (DC 20), Stunning Pin, Weapon Focus (Unarmed strike)
Traits Caretaker, Reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +15 (+16 to jump), Heal +18, Perception +14
Languages Common, Polyglot
SQ ac bonus +5, clever wrestler, graceful grappler, stunning fist (stun), unarmed strike (1d6), versatile human
Other Gear Amulet of mighty fists +1, Belt of physical might (Str & Dex +4), Bracers of armor +3, Gauntlet of the skilled maneuver (grapple), Headband of inspired wisdom +2, You have no money!
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
AC Bonus +5 The Monk adds his Wisdom bonus to AC and CMD, more at higher levels.
Bonebreaker Deal Str or Dex damage when using Stunning Fist
Clever Wrestler (Ex) At 7th level, an unarmed fighter takes no penalties to Dexterity or on attack rolls while grappled, and retains his Dexterity bonus to AC while pinning an opponent. The unarmed fighter can make attacks of opportunity even when grappled and even again
Damage Reduction (4/lethal) You have Damage Reduction against non-lethal damage
Graceful Grappler (Ex) A tetori uses his monk level in place of his base attack bonus to determine CMB and CMD for grappling. At 4th level, he suffers no penalties on attack rolls, can make attacks of opportunity while grappling, and retains his Dexterity bonus to AC when
Greater Grapple +2 to grapple, maintaining a grapple is a move action.
Harsh Training +2 (Ex) +2 Will save vs. effects that cause exhausted, fatigued, or staggered conditions or temporary penalties to ability scores
Improved Grapple You grapple at +2, with no attacks of opportunity allowed.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Jawbreaker With successful Stunning Fist, you may cripple opponent's mouth
Mantis Style Gain +1 use of Stunning Fist per day, and increase stunning fist DC by +2
Pinning Rend Against pinned opponent, you may deal bleed damage with Grapple check
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Rapid Grappler Spend a swift action to make a combat maneuver check to grapple while using Greater Grapple
Stunning Fist (4/day) (DC 20) You can stun an opponent with an unarmed attack.
Stunning Fist (Stun) (Ex) At 1st level, the monk gains Stunning Fist as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. At 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the monk gains the ability to apply a new condition to the target of his Stunning Fist. This conditio
Stunning Pin Use Stunning Fist against pinned opponents
Trick Throw (Ex) Attempt a dirty trick maneuver on a foe you successfully trip with an unarmed attack.
Unarmed Strike (1d6) The Monk does lethal damage with his unarmed strikes.
Versatile Human While they lack some of the training of other humans, the natural talents of versatile humans more than make up for this lack. Replace the +2 bonus to any ability score, the skilled racial trait, and the bonus feat racial trait with dual talent.
Weapon Training +2 (Ex) +2 to hit and damage with monk and natural weapons.


Mapleswitch wrote:

***The part that is unclear is if you take something like Tiger Claw: can you still enter Tiger Style without Tiger Style feat?

"For example, if you have feats associated with Mantis Style and Tiger Style, you can use a swift action to adopt Tiger Style at the start of one turn, and then can use other feats that have Tiger Style as a prerequisite."

This is not unclear at all. You must have the style feat to enter the style. The follow-on feats do nothing without the style feat. Note the subsequent feats are not 'style' feats, they are 'combat' feats. Ergo, the unarmed fighter may not chose one for his bonus feat.


Yeah, it's unfortunate there isn't more support for the light armored fighter concept. You only need one level of monk to get wis to ac, though, so that helps if you really want to go unarmored. I like light armor even though it's not optimal.

I'm not a fan of the cleric option for the reach flurry. Monk already has medium bab, another level with no bab hurts. Imo the main benefit of the reach is the area you threaten, but your attack bonus is going to blow on AoOs. (Will be decent with flurry, but you don't really gain anything by flurrying from one square away).

so what's your take on how to deal with unarmed damage and getting past DR? are you going to rely on AoMF? or is there something you can enchant on your hand that you can still have while you hold the spear? How do you think the cost of it will all turn out?

also, i'm still kind of determined to get an actual monk with a reach weapon going, so i might start a thread looking for advice on that too : )


elgabalawi wrote:

so what's your take on how to deal with unarmed damage and getting past DR? are you going to rely on AoMF? or is there something you can enchant on your hand that you can still have while you hold the spear? How do you think the cost of it will all turn out?

also, i'm still kind of determined to get an actual monk with a reach weapon going, so i might start a thread looking for advice on that too : )

AoMF would be ideal. My group also uses things like hand and/or leg wraps that can be enchanted individually. Or you can always have one weapon enchanted to the max for those annoying high-DR targets. Honestly I never really consider DR when building a character. I think it's a lame mechanic, so I just suffer through it when it comes up (which isn't really all that often). That said, with brawler bonus, weapon spec, power attack, dragon, and high strength, (That's like +20 damage easy by 10th level, before enhancement) this guy will still be able to get a fair chunk of damage through dr that he can't bypass. (And the blead damage from boar ignores dr)

If by actual monk you mean straight monk, I don't think it would be that great. His low bab and lack of open feats really hurt for the polearm style...


Permanency Spell:
Getting Greater Magic Fang cast with Permanency can be a huge boon to a Monk, and save you money too. If such spellcasting is not available, at higher levels you may be able to get your party Wizard or Sorcerer to cast it, if you provide them with the material cost (and scroll if necessary)Greater Magic Fang on unarmed: This is huge - so get it if you can. It means you can use that Amulet of Mighty Fists (which doesn't need a +1 minimum enhancement) to use exclusively on other enchantments.
Cost: 7500 gp material cost per casting, 3000 gp scroll cost (permanency) plus the cost of getting greater magic fang cast(as high caster level as possible).


Vestrial wrote:
elgabalawi wrote:


If by actual monk you mean straight monk, I don't think it would be that great. His low bab and lack of open feats really hurt for the polearm style...

it doesn't have to be straight monk, but i'd like it to be mostly monk with just a dip in something else at most if possible. i started a thread about it (something like "monk with a reach weapon")

looking for thoughts in the "advice" section.

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