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Qadira Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Although about a month ago, I had publicly railed against the PvP architecture of PFO, I find myself still hoping against hope that I can find a niche in the game that doesn't involve PvP or the threat of same.

So, in that vein I am starting this thread to perhaps cross-pollinate ideas with others who find PvP a detestable exercise.

Note: If you like PvP, that's great. Post it somewhere else. You feel like trolling, I'll flag you and move on. I am not making a statement about your prefered method of play, please refrain from saying something about mine.

If you are interested in figuring out something non-PvP we can work together on as a team then by all means, drop a note.

I am leaning towards some sort of trading consortium. The only difficulty I see is protection, but I assume we will have to 'hire' PvPers to actually guard shipments/settlements. It's not a perfect solution, but it will have to do.

Goblin Squad Member

@Patrick Curtin, I don't think anything can be done to totally insulate you from PvP in PFO.

However, there are definitely some organizations out there who have publicly stated their intentions to provide a safe haven for players who choose a more casual path. I strongly suggest you try to build close to us, or even inside a protected space if we're able to create one.

The Seventh Veil is the company I've chosen to join.

The Great Legionnaires are our allies and are probably even more dedicated to protecting the innocent as an in-character and out-of-character motivation.

Peace Through Vigilance also seems like they'd be interested in being the rough men, ready to do violence on your behalf.

Hrm... This gives me an idea...

Qadira Goblin Squad Member

@Nihimon: I am all too aware that opting out of PvP in PFO is not an option. If I wasn't such a fan of both Pathfinder and MMOs I would likely walk away. I am mainly doing this as an intellectual exercise to see if there are those out there who would like to work in a non-PvP fashion.

Goblin Squad Member

Well, I wasn't really referring to an opt-out...

I've considered how it might be possible to play PFO while minimizing your chances of being engaged in PvP. It's not something I plan on trying to do, but I've seen enough posts from people like you, and I find it an interesting problem.

I believe your best bet to minimize your exposure to PvP is to ally with a group that is perfectly comfortable with PvP, that is also willing to give you the fruits of their labor by way of access to dungeons they've discovered while exploring. You'll really only be seriously exposed to random PvP while traveling to and from the dungeons. Once you're inside the dungeon, you should be perfectly safe (if I'm reading it right, and you avoid the top-tier dungeons which allow multiple groups). Once you're back in town, you should be generally as safe as the town is.

One last bit of advice I would give you is to avoid posting anything on these forums that would allow the ne'erdowells to identify you in-game. There are some who would make a point of killing you just because they know it will bother you. Not that I'll follow that advice myself... I've already made my peace with open PvP and I welcome the challenge of being a target.

Qadira Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

*shrug*

It's a game. I want to play it, but if 'ne'erdowells' insist on ruining it for me ...

Well, that will have just proved my previous assertions about PvP/PvPers. Also, there's nothing forcing me to remain subscribed/play. I'm already quite dubious about it now anyway. If the greifers run me off, then there will be one less player in the game. I'm sure they won't care, but IMO the game itself will become very untenable if that sort of thing goes on with regularity.

I realize that I can't avoid PvP if I play this game, but I would rather play in a fashion that reduces my obligation to deal with it. I also understand that not all (or not even a majority) of PvPers are 'ne'erdowells', but unfortunately that style of gameplay attracts them, and it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the barrel, if you take my meaning.

Goblin Squad Member

Patrick Curtin wrote:

*shrug*

It's a game. I want to play it, but if 'ne'erdowells' insist on ruining it for me ...

Well, that will have just proved my previous assertions about PvP/PvPers. Also, there's nothing forcing me to remain subscribed/play. I'm already quite dubious about it now anyway. If the greifers run me off, then there will be one less player in the game. I'm sure they won't care, but IMO the game itself will become very untenable if that sort of thing goes on with regularity.

I realize that I can't avoid PvP if I play this game, but I would rather play in a fashion that reduces my obligation to deal with it. I also understand that not all (or not even a majority) of PvPers are 'ne'erdowells', but unfortunately that style of gameplay attracts them, and it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the barrel, if you take my meaning.

I would disagree on the lack of any ability to play without engaging in PVP. At least from most of the descriptions, in the high security zones, you will likely be able to progress in them. Admitted you will not likely be able to train every skill, and will generate wealth at a significantly slower rate than others, your odds of being hurt in PVP are more or less insignificant within those areas.

Qadira Goblin Squad Member

As I am an extremely casual gamer, I doubt I would care if I had 'top tier' stuff. I just want to kill a few mobs and maybe build a trading company in my spare time. That's all.

I make no excuses for my preferences in MMO gamestyle. I am firmly a PvE proponent, or a 'carebear'. That being said, I am also a huge fan of Pathfinder. Since even before there WAS a Pathfinder outside of a few vague discussions about what Paizo should do when the magazines had been yanked from them and 4e loomed on the horizon. I can't have my preferered style of gameplay in PFO, but I would still like to participate in the game if possible. I just want to connect with others who might feel the same way.

Maybe we will ally with some of the more PvP elements. It's not an outrageous thought: There is an Army, police, an FBI and a Chamber of Commerce in the real world. They all function as parts of the greater whole of the nation. Perhaps there is room for those who want a little peace and the option to do their own thing without getting ganked. If not ..

*shrug*

Once again, I'd be disappointed, but there are plenty of other things to do than play this one particular game.

Goblin Squad Member

I think there are definitely players out there who are interested in partaking in as little PVP as possible, but I don't think a organization PURELY dedicated to them will work well. It's kind of like painting a giant bullseye on your head when your stated purpose is being for people not interested in combat. That lets your enemies know you are highly productive and poorly defended. Perfect target to farm for resources. While a pacifist can carve out a much more peaceful existence inside a company that has a military, but also allows for more peaceful players.

And yes, as Nihimon has stated. GL's driving purpose and highest ideal is to protect the innocent from the corrupt.

However, we are one company with limited resources and soldiers to offer no matter what strength we achieve. If your organization were to grow large and draw enough attention on itself... there is only so much we will be able to do. Our intent is not to serve as people's replacement for a military and we would almost certainly ask for compensation if we felt we were being used as such. It is to bolster the forces of the weak so that they can hold out against the strong.

I'm sure you can see my logic. We will offer what aid we can but we simply will not be able to fight everyone's wars for free, on our own.

Qadira Goblin Squad Member

*shrug*

This thread is for the purpose for sketching out a method. I don't know what shape it would take. Perhaps it is not doable. Perhaps an organization such as this would have to pay for 'mercenaries'. Perhaps we could recruit some of our own PvPers. I don't want any free favors, anymore than I really feel like cowering behind someone else's defenses.

I would like to think that other players would respect the wishes of those who didn't want to engage in PvP, but I realize that is foolish. As long as PvP is an option, there will be the 'ne'erdowells' as Nihimon mentioned above. And, as he intimated, should I ever reveal my game persona, I would likely be an autotarget from then on.

Believe me, these are all the things that make me not want to play PFO. Only my devotion to Pathfinder is even keeping me interested at this point. Hopefully there are enough people out there who might be willing to join a group dedicated to non-PvP persuits.

Goblin Squad Member

I would also agree with Andius, based on stories I have heard in Eve, the 2 types of people who are most successful at avoiding PVP are.

1. People who spend the majority of their time in high security space.
2. People who have non-PVP roles within the strongest military forces.

Forces that gather the largest strongest militaries, still need people who do non-PVP content, and in fact are more likely to pass those roles on. Those non-combatant members are the least likely to be attacked because, people know that messing with him is messing with that army.

Going in under a very clear non-combatant, in a group made up of non-combatants... sends the exact oposite message to bandits. It tells them that if they kill you, you aren't able to do a darn thing about it. Now of course since you also mentioned you are unlikely to be striving to be extremely powerful etc... I don't think there's anything outside of your playstyle that you couldn't just accomplish by staying in high sec NPC patrolled territory. You most likely will be able to play the game more or less as you wish, run a few dungeons, meet friends etc... I'm not even sure there is much in the game that will disapoint you.

The ones who will be disapointed are the ones who are striving to be the best, do things along the lines of hard core raiding and kingdom building, but desire for all changes to be moving forward, and not be risking and realizing that other players are going to be pushing them back as they move up. I haven't heard anything in the game designed to make someone who wants to be casual, while avoiding PVP as a hinderance. People who want hard core, but only hardcore PVE are the ones who will have the most reason to fear.

Qadira Goblin Squad Member

There is no fear involved. Once again, I don't have to play this game, I just want to. If no way can be hypothesised to make it attractive to the PvE casual gamer, then I just won't play it. 'Nuff said. PFO has one less subscriber, and the world spins on. Someone interested in hardcore PvE will likely give this game a pass anyway. As a casual gamer, I'm not too convinced either. I still have large issues with open PvP, but I am trying to figure a way to play the game and enjoy it despite the PvP element.

Perhaps my trading company will set up shop in some nation's territory that is strong, thus allowing a more casual element to thrive. IDK. I haven't heard anything from anyone else who would be interested, just a lot of talk of why it is unfeasable. Perhaps y'all are right, and I'm just fooling myself.

Osirion Goblin Squad Member

I must say that I'd most certainly be interested in some form of non-PVP group.
I currently only play one MMO (I did give WoW a short try, but didn't like it much) and that is D&D Online. I was initially hoing that that was the kind of game I was going to get with PFO and was eager to jump at the chance, since I too am a very casual gamer ( <5hrs/week, if I'm even lucky to be able to play in a given week, which I haven't for a little while now). Upon the realisation that, yes there might be elements similar to what I'm looking for but, ultimately it's a resource management game and not a questing game (which to me doesn't fit with too well with the source material) and that PvP (which I am not a very big fan of and am quite impressed with the way DDO handles it) is going to be one of the major factors in the game, my excitement for actually playing the game has faded dramatically.
While I still might check it out to see for myself how it actually plays, because like Pat I have been a huge Pathfinder Fan since (before) day one, I am sceptical about my ability to do much of value for myself, my character and my friends.


Love the idea. There are many games I choose not to play because of the people playing them. PVP just gives @$$)(@7$ a chance to show their true colors. I was very disappointed when it was announced that PFO would be PVP.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Even in EvE, there are a significant number of people who avoid PvP, either by remaining in high-security space or by serving a noncombatant role in a large corporation- somebody has to do the mining, construction, &tc, and the people who are hard-core PvP typically don't want to, but don't want anyone interfering with their lines of supply.

Goblin Squad Member

Patrick Curtin wrote:

*shrug*

This thread is for the purpose for sketching out a method. I don't know what shape it would take. Perhaps it is not doable. Perhaps an organization such as this would have to pay for 'mercenaries'. Perhaps we could recruit some of our own PvPers. I don't want any free favors, anymore than I really feel like cowering behind someone else's defenses.

I would like to think that other players would respect the wishes of those who didn't want to engage in PvP, but I realize that is foolish. As long as PvP is an option, there will be the 'ne'erdowells' as Nihimon mentioned above. And, as he intimated, should I ever reveal my game persona, I would likely be an autotarget from then on.

Believe me, these are all the things that make me not want to play PFO. Only my devotion to Pathfinder is even keeping me interested at this point. Hopefully there are enough people out there who might be willing to join a group dedicated to non-PvP persuits.

My main concern would be, after the map has settled, what happens when someone who has joined you tries to use you as a shield?

'Let's offer this group amnesty' needs to have some sort of internal policing, and a response for that sort of situation.

Goblin Squad Member

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Patrick Curtin wrote:

If you are interested in figuring out something non-PvP we can work together on as a team then by all means, drop a note.

I am leaning towards some sort of trading consortium. The only difficulty I see is protection, but I assume we will have to 'hire' PvPers to actually guard shipments/settlements. It's not a perfect solution, but it will have to do.

There might be room for some material gathering (and resulting PvE encounters) in the protected zones near the NPCs settlements. I've long thought that might be a good way to pull together casual players. But in the end it depends on how many resources are available and how resources gathered in that area can be stored.

If everything worked right, it might work this way: an organization like the Carebear Corp (CC) works primarily in NPC zones. Members locate a resource that is in demand and they set up a camp and advertise the location in chat or by other means. Basically they get a mass of people gathering resources and defending against the resulting PvE encounters. Such camps might be semipermanent or the company might basically start a new camp every day or every weekend, it all depends on members' gaming schedules.

Materials gathered are sold to other companies for construction in the hinterlands - Ryan hints that settlements will need a boatload of resources. The CC would need to have some way to disburse funds to members after such sales. I'm thinking the company might also allow brand new players or other casuals to join the work effort, as a taste of large scale resource collection, and might need to be able to pay such people for their contributions (it depends on if the monster drops are sufficient reward). Such non-member workers can either be offered membership, or can be pointed towards companies/settlements that CC has dealt with.

Finally, there's always some company or settlement in the hinterlands that needs labor. CC might have some members who aren't interested in PvP, but who are willing to risk being killed on a job by a PC.

Qadira Goblin Squad Member

Thank you for the constructive suggestions Urman. That sounds a lot like what I am aiming for.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

I am also sad to hear that PFO will be PvP with no opt-out.
I am the definition of 'casual gamer'. I am lucky if I have 5hrs a month to spend on a game, 5hours a week would be heavenly! :)

But like Pat and a couple of others have mentioned, I am also a fan of Pathfinder before it became Pathfinder. And when I first heard the news of PFO I was gleeful.

I would be interested in joining such a group as proposed. Although it seems like the difficulty of managing such an organization might possibly outweigh the pleasure of playing PFO. Especially for an admitted casual gamer as myself. :(

Hopefully I am mistaken, and that Pat (or someone of similar mind set) will manage to figure out a way for those of us who prefer our fantasy worlds PvP free (or Pvp light?) to also enjoy what has become our fantasy world of choice! :)

Goblin Squad Member

Ragadolf wrote:
I would be interested in joining such a group as proposed. Although it seems like the difficulty of managing such an organization might possibly outweigh the pleasure of playing PFO. Especially for an admitted casual gamer as myself. :(

In any group of gamers there will always be some that have more time or energy to lead and manage big operations. From some of the stuff Ryan has written in the blog, larger group harvesting might be more effective than a lot of small groups harvesting. If that is the case, it makes sense for people who might prefer to solo in high security areas to group up instead. They can group either informally as a pick up group, or formally, under the leadership of a chartered company.

Goblin Squad Member

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I hear assassins offer discounts on targets who repeatedly go after the weak and pitiable. May I offer my business card?

Goblin Squad Member

Patrick,

Please tell me you are planning on changing the name? I'm hoping I missed something.

Goblin Squad Member

Elorebaen wrote:

Patrick,

Please tell me you are planning on changing the name? I'm hoping I missed something.

Indeed. Nothing undermines pacifist intentions like painting a giant glow-in-the-dark target on your backs.

Qadira Goblin Squad Member

*sigh*

The name is just a concept. from most of the feedback I'm beginning to think I'm tilting at windmills. I'm coming to the conclusion that what I am aiming for isn't tenable. Thanks to all who suggested ideas, I appreciate it.

Goblin Squad Member

Elorebaen wrote:
Please tell me you are planning on changing the name?

Actually, I know some players who wear the "carebear" tag quite proudly as a way of showing that they're not ashamed of being anti-PvP.

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
Elorebaen wrote:
Please tell me you are planning on changing the name?
Actually, I know some players who wear the "carebear" tag quite proudly as a way of showing that they're not ashamed of being anti-PvP.

I don't think Elorebaen was viewing the fact that the term was origionally made as an insult, more that specifically wearing the name carebear in sight range of many PVP players, is about as good an idea as wearing a steak vest in a pack of wolves.

I have a friend who plays eve, when he was describing how he was in the game, there were 2 types of players that he would kill, regardless of if there was a reward in game or not.

1. People who attack obvious newbies.
2. People who have remained in the game long enough to know what they are doing, but are carebears.

I do expect pathfinder to draw a significantly different audience than Eve, but I also would say there will likely be many players who think like that. Of course, changing that name wouldn't necesaraly do much good, any form of open or public recruiting would have the same effect no matter what the name was.

Goblin Squad Member

I imagine some clever lions might join (or create) a Carebear Corporation just to feed on the jackals that are attracted by the name.

I imagine some clever jackals will join as well, to prey on their guildmates.

Qadira

I gotta say Patrick, I am 100% in agreement with your thoughts on MMOs and Pathfinder and my dislike of PVP. I unfortunately have written off the Pathfinder MMO due to the stance taken on PVP....I wanna have fun, not be somebody's income source when I am at work. Happened to me too many times before, despite having powerful friends on during hours I am not available and some of the best defenses. I have given up on all PVP MMOs and I am sad to my core that Pathfinder has chosen this path...
That said if you could figure out a good way to get past that then I may possibly give it a try.

Qadira Goblin Squad Member

Onishi wrote:


I have a friend who plays eve, when he was describing how he was in the game, there were 2 types of players that he would kill, regardless of if there was a reward in game or not.

1. People who attack obvious newbies.
2. People who have remained in the game long enough to know what they are doing, but are carebears.

I do expect pathfinder to draw a significantly different audience than Eve, but I also would say there will likely be many players who think like that. Of course, changing that name wouldn't necesaraly do much good, any form of open or public recruiting would have the same effect no matter what the name was.

Yup. This ^^. So rather than become a target, since i can see from the gestalt consensus what a PvE player will likely be treated like in this type of MMO, I will likely just pass. Thanks again folks.

Qadira Goblin Squad Member

Fake Healer wrote:

I gotta say Patrick, I am 100% in agreement with your thoughts on MMOs and Pathfinder and my dislike of PVP. I unfortunately have written off the Pathfinder MMO due to the stance taken on PVP....I wanna have fun, not be somebody's income source when I am at work. Happened to me too many times before, despite having powerful friends on during hours I am not available and some of the best defenses. I have given up on all PVP MMOs and I am sad to my core that Pathfinder has chosen this path...

That said if you could figure out a good way to get past that then I may possibly give it a try.

Fakey, I really don't think there are too many options, other than becoming a virtual serf in some high-powered PvP guild that extends their shield over you (and that only works if you never leave their settlement). I really wish I had a good idea, but as the others above have pointed out, anyone not enamored of PvP will become an instatarget. I really don't feel like that's going to be a lot of fun.

Osirion

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Having been a huge fan of EQ, DAoC, AoC, CoH/CoV, Champions Online, WoW, Warhammer Online, etc., etc. *and* a huge fan of Pathfinder (two shelves of PF stuff and counting!), I thought I would be the target audience for this product/service, but the stuff I've seen on the PVP front is pretty disheartening. The 'anti-griefing measures' suggested seem like they'd, if anything, *encourage and reward griefers.*

Eh. I'm not the target audience after all.

I like my PVP like I like my sex. Consensual and fun for *everybody*.

Goblin Squad Member

Patrick Curtin wrote:
Onishi wrote:


I have a friend who plays eve, when he was describing how he was in the game, there were 2 types of players that he would kill, regardless of if there was a reward in game or not.

1. People who attack obvious newbies.
2. People who have remained in the game long enough to know what they are doing, but are carebears.

I do expect pathfinder to draw a significantly different audience than Eve, but I also would say there will likely be many players who think like that. Of course, changing that name wouldn't necesaraly do much good, any form of open or public recruiting would have the same effect no matter what the name was.

Yup. This ^^. So rather than become a target, since i can see from the gestalt consensus what a PvE player will likely be treated like in this type of MMO, I will likely just pass. Thanks again folks.

It is up to you, but I do still note that there are still 2 ways past that, even in eve there are very few people (that particular friend included) who would take the inevitable death penalty in high sec space).

2. I know no shortage of non-combaters who go months between fights, by more or less joining the hardcore PVP guilds and doing the non-PVP roles. Sort of a sheep in wolves clothing if you will. I honestly think in PFO PVP will be an uncommon occourance, assuming you don't fly a banner over your head announcing that you aren't prepared for it.

Silver Crusade Goblin Squad Member

There is a chance of PvP every day in real life. Fortunately, we have the police to ensure justice happens to those who wrong others.

Join a guild, such as The Great Legionaries, and if you are attacked, the guild would ensure there was retribution.

Goblin Squad Member

Set wrote:
I like my PVP like I like my sex. Consensual and fun for *everybody*.

That's gonna end up in somebody's signature, I bet :)

Goblin Squad Member

Set wrote:
I like my PVP like I like my sex. Consensual and fun for *everybody*.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. ;)

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Onishi wrote:


I have a friend who plays eve, when he was describing how he was in the game, there were 2 types of players that he would kill, regardless of if there was a reward in game or not.

1. People who attack obvious newbies.
2. People who have remained in the game long enough to know what they are doing, but are carebears.

I do expect pathfinder to draw a significantly different audience than Eve, but I also would say there will likely be many players who think like that. Of course, changing that name wouldn't necesaraly do much good, any form of open or public recruiting would have the same effect no matter what the name was.

How exactly do you tell if a player has been in 'long enough to know what they are doing'?

And why isn't "With my player and character abilities, I will have the most fun if I do this activity which is very unlikely to put me into direct conflict with other players." a perfectly valid judgement?

Goblin Squad Member

DeciusBrutus wrote:
Onishi wrote:


I have a friend who plays eve, when he was describing how he was in the game, there were 2 types of players that he would kill, regardless of if there was a reward in game or not.

1. People who attack obvious newbies.
2. People who have remained in the game long enough to know what they are doing, but are carebears.

I do expect pathfinder to draw a significantly different audience than Eve, but I also would say there will likely be many players who think like that. Of course, changing that name wouldn't necesaraly do much good, any form of open or public recruiting would have the same effect no matter what the name was.

How exactly do you tell if a player has been in 'long enough to know what they are doing'?

And why isn't "With my player and character abilities, I will have the most fun if I do this activity which is very unlikely to put me into direct conflict with other players." a perfectly valid judgement?

No one said it wasn't...but likewise, why isn't "With my player and character abilities, I will have the most fun if I do this activity which is very likely to result in the death of those who say, "With my player and character abilities, I will have the most fun if I do this activity which is very unlikely to put me into direct conflict with other players."" a perfectly valid judgement?

Goblin Squad Member

DeciusBrutus wrote:
Onishi wrote:


I have a friend who plays eve, when he was describing how he was in the game, there were 2 types of players that he would kill, regardless of if there was a reward in game or not.

1. People who attack obvious newbies.
2. People who have remained in the game long enough to know what they are doing, but are carebears.

I do expect pathfinder to draw a significantly different audience than Eve, but I also would say there will likely be many players who think like that. Of course, changing that name wouldn't necesaraly do much good, any form of open or public recruiting would have the same effect no matter what the name was.

How exactly do you tell if a player has been in 'long enough to know what they are doing'?

And why isn't "With my player and character abilities, I will have the most fun if I do this activity which is very unlikely to put me into direct conflict with other players." a perfectly valid judgement?

I can't speak for him, and I am not saying that is the viewpoint I want the majority of players in PFO to have. I am saying that is a common viewpoint among players in Eve, and something that players in PFO are going to have to be prepared to run into regardless of the value of the viewpoint.

When the floodgates are open (IE slots are not highly limited). It is very high probability that many eve players, will try PFO, and bring some of the viewpoints with them. My statement is not that this is my view, or a majority view. My point is there are people who have that viewpoint, and specifically waving a flag saying that you don't want to ever PVP, will draw their attention faster than anything.

Now I do admit, if the overall goals of the high security NPC territory are correct (IE there are no giant holes to make it still lucratively profitable via suicide bomber + looter alt/ally), people will probably be left alone in high sec territory. If 2 parties venture into low security territory, 1 belonging to a powerful military group, the second belonging to a group that openly advertises itself as a group for non-PVPers. I would bet money that the second is 10x more likely to be attacked.

Banditry and all forms of PVP for profit, are about risk/reward calculations. The 2 questions any PVPer will ask himself before ambushing is

1. How likely am I to be killed in the attempt
2. How much will I get if I win

Specifically telling the bandits that the answer to 1. is "extremely unlikely" via a charter or settlement affiliation, is a bad idea. Having a membership in a charter that is known for being a very powerful PVP organization, will make bandits much less likely to attack, regardless of whether you yourself have ever fought another player.

Goblin Squad Member

Patrick Curtin wrote:


Yup. This ^^. So rather than become a target, since i can see from the gestalt consensus what a PvE player will likely be treated like in this type of MMO, I will likely just pass. Thanks again folks.

We all ready have groups forming to protect your style of play. I am part of the Great Legionaries which is devoted to helping and protecting PvEers like yourself. So play and enjoy. When you run into troubles come to us and we will try to fix it. I mean you have NPC guardians and PCs devoted to stomping out Griefers. So at least have some faith in the people trying to protect you before giving up. And giving up before the game has even launched I might add.

Qadira Goblin Squad Member

I am not 'giving up '. I am trying to gauge if this game will be fun to play. You can't give up on something you never started. I am on the fence about this game considering the architecture it has. I understand that I could play if I am willing to subsume myself to some PvP organization. I also understand that this sort of play appeals to a lot of other folks. So be it. I love Pathfinder, and I love MMOs. I'm just not sure about Pathfinder Online.

Look, I'm not trying to denigrate you folks, but you have to understand that even if I do play this game it is going to be a very small slice of my time. I enjoy relaxing in an MMO, and I don't want to have to worry about getting ambushed. I was trying to come up with a way of organizing like-minded folks without resorting to joining a PvP organization.

Now I already hear the trolls calling: 'just go play a theme park then Carebear !'. And that's what I have been doing on and off since 2004. I wouldn't be trying this hard to join PFO unless I had a deep love for the table-top game. I am sorry if I took up anyone's time, but I was just looking for a workaround to the PvE dillemma. If there is none, then so be it.

Goblin Squad Member

Patrick Curtin wrote:

*sigh*

The name is just a concept. from most of the feedback I'm beginning to think I'm tilting at windmills. I'm coming to the conclusion that what I am aiming for isn't tenable. Thanks to all who suggested ideas, I appreciate it.

I should have been more specific. My comment is based on the fact that "carebear" is blatantly OOC. It doesn't have a place in the Golarion universe. I was hoping that the name would change to be more in-line with the Golarion universe.

My comment has absolutely nothing to do with the concept behind the name.

Qadira Goblin Squad Member

Hmm. As a tangent: Is there really any hope of keeping names 'Golarion-pure?' Just a question.

Goblin Squad Member

Patrick Curtin wrote:
Is there really any hope of keeping names 'Golarion-pure?'

IMO, the only way to accomplish that would be to have the server assign character names, or require them to be selected from a list.

If players can type in their own names, it will be virtually impossible to for the moderators to police them for Golarion-appropriateness.

Goblin Squad Member

Patrick Curtin wrote:
Hmm. As a tangent: Is there really any hope of keeping names 'Golarion-pure?' Just a question.

We've discussed it elsewhere, but like Nihimon says, the game would have to assign names. Even if the players all agreed to use Golorion-pure names, there's also a problem that after about the first 5000 names it will be harder and harder for players to pull up good names from their imaginations.

Goblin Squad Member

Just because it may present a challenge doesn't mean we shouldn't try. Also, it is not that hard to have, at least, a generic fantasy-ish name.

But, at the very least, you would think that we could start off on the right foot, at least. Early adopters will set the mood for those to come. This is especially so in a game that focuses on player interaction.

Can we at least try? Pretty please? If you need help with this, I would be happy to offer a list of resources if need be.

Cheers!

Goblinworks Executive Founder

I intend to apply a fair amount of social pressure against people who pick blatantly 1337 names. Anything of the form Xx [name] xX, for example, will probably be met with "Really? Get a real name."

I'm not sure what resources would help determine what a 'valid' name is. Considering there are over 200 billion possible letter combinations of 8 letters, a comprehensive blacklist is impossible, and a whitelist would have to include enough names that every character could choose one that they liked- good luck creating enough names for everybody, while also not creating a Ch'k N'ris.

Goblin Squad Member

One positive aspect of an Open PvP game is that the players themselves can impose penalties on unacceptable behavior - whether it's simply refusing to deal with them, or killing them on sight.

Goblin Squad Member

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DeciusBrutus wrote:


I'm not sure what resources would help determine what a 'valid' name is. Considering there are over 200 billion possible letter combinations of 8 letters, a comprehensive blacklist is impossible, and a whitelist would have to include enough names that every character could choose one that they liked- good luck creating enough names for everybody, while also not creating a Ch'k N'ris.

I don't think it's possible--validity in this sense is a cultural judgement, and that's not a computing task. There are some gross things you could do, like restrict some characters (e.g. "?" "/" "=" "*"), an expert system of common naughty words ("dick," "dikc," "suck," "suck") and perhaps some common symbolic patterns, e.g. [letter][LETTER]. But there's no way to guard against names like "Lino Liamflohr" or your Chuck Norris example.

This will likely be an emergent, contested, temporal social property of the game, i.e. it will be cultural.

Goblin Squad Member

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Nihimon wrote:
One positive aspect of an Open PvP game is that the players themselves can impose penalties on unacceptable behavior - whether it's simply refusing to deal with them, or killing them on sight.

Hmmm, that sounds oddly familiar... :)

Goblin Squad Member

Honestly Patrick I do not see this game as a PVP gank-fest in the beginning. The reason is at the very start everyone is going to try and get their foothold in the game.

People will be trying to figure out the ropes of the game, and then it will be the mad dash to acquire gear,trade skills,professions, and to lay claim to their hex.

Once all that is acquired then PVP will become an issue, of course you will have the occasional baddie, that wishes to make everyone's life miserable early on. But I feel at the start that is going to be minimal.

So in all honestly in the short run you should be able to play the game as you want, but in the long run you would probably want to alliance yourself into a guild that will help you if you run into the issue of PVP.

And one more thing to remember, The Bounty Board is your friend also. The gankers will learn to leave you alone if you continuously place bounties on players heads that attack you.

Qadira Goblin Squad Member

I'm likely going to fall behind the power curve if I started this game. I won't have the time to invest getting gear, land, etc. I understand I can join a PvP group. I'd rather avoid it if possible. My issue is the long-term viability for a casual player to enjoy the game. I understand at the moment the 'early adopters' have committed to fighting greifing. My Worry is what the culture of the game will evolve into once the floodgates are open. Just as I have serious doubts about the naming conventions once thousands of players with weak, if any, connections to Pathfinder or Golarion join up. (FTR: I personally would much prefer the game to have Golarion-specific names) I have serious doubts about the efficacy of self-policing the swarms of new players with little interest in role playing. Once the gankers understand the ropes, there will be barbarian hordes.

*sigh*

I'll keep an open mind. I'll likely play, since it will be F2P and it won't be a monetary burden. If it turns out that my fears are unfounded, then I will become a regular casual player. If, as I fear, that the chaos of the opening ends up in a killfest, well I can at least say I tried.

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