One Natural Attack, One Weapon

[Smiling Shadow]

Let's say I have a bite attack and I am holding a greatsword. I have no other natural attacks or weapons. I want to full attack.

In the Universal monster rules, it says "Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type."

In those same rules, it also says "If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls."

Basically, we have two statements regarding two different circumstances (using natural weapons with manufactured weapons and having only one natural attack), and both statements say "THIS HAPPENS ALWAYS NO MATTER WHAT." Except if you meet both of the circumstances, they can't both be true. Is there an official ruling on this?

[Michael Sayre]

If you read in context, the note about the creature only having one natural attack getting full base attack and 1.5 STR to damage precedes the statement about how natural attacks are treated in conjunction with manufactured weapons.
The full text reads:

Natural Attacks:

Natural Attacks Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon). These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature's full base attack bonus and add the creature's full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature's base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature's full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type. The natural attacks by size table lists some of the most common types of natural attacks and their classifications.

Some creatures treat one or more of their attacks differently, such as dragons, which always receive 1-1/2 times their Strength bonus on damage rolls with their bite attack. These exceptions are noted in the creature's description.

Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack's original type.

Some creatures do not have natural attacks. These creatures can make unarmed strikes just like humans do. See the natural attacks by size table for typical damage values for natural attacks by creature size.

Format: bite +5 (1d6+1), 2 claws +5 (1d4+2), 4 tentacles +0 (1d4+1); Location: Melee and Ranged.

Context should make it pretty clear that their primary natural attack becomes a secondary attack when used in conjunction with a manufactured weapon.
If context isn't good enough for you, check an example from official published material to see how it's treated, like this:

Wererat (Hybrid Form):

Wererat (Hybrid Form)

LE Medium humanoid (human, shapechanger)

Init +3; Senses low-light vision, scent; Perception +8

Defense

AC 19, touch 14, flat-footed 15 (+3 armor, +3 Dex, +1 dodge, +2 natural)

hp 20 (2d8+8)

Fort +3, Ref +6, Will +3

Defensive Abilities evasion; DR 10/silver

Offense

Speed 30 ft.

Melee short sword +4 (1d6+2/19–20), bite –1 (1d4+1 plus disease and curse of lycanthropy; DC 15)

Ranged light crossbow +4 (1d8/19–20)

Special Attacks sneak attack +1d6

Statistics

Str 15, Dex 17, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 6

Base Atk +1; CMB +3; CMD 17

Feats Dodge, Weapon Finesse

Skills Acrobatics +8, Bluff +3, Climb +7, Intimidate +3, Knowledge (local) +5, Perception +8, Sense Motive +8, Stealth +8, Swim +7

Languages Common

SQ change shape (human, hybrid, and dire rat; polymorph), rogue talents (fast stealth), lycanthropic empathy (rats and dire rats), trapfinding

Special Abilities

Disease (Ex) Filth fever: Bite—injury; save Fort DC 14; onset 1d3 days; frequency 1/day; effect 1d3 Dex damage and 1d3 Con damage; cure 2 consecutive saves. The save DC is Constitution-based.

As you can see, the wererat's bite is clearly treated as a secondary natural attack when used in conjunction with his short sword.

[cartmanbeck]

Smiling Shadow wrote:

Let's say I have a bite attack and I am holding a greatsword. I have no other natural attacks or weapons. I want to full attack.

In the Universal monster rules, it says "Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type."

In those same rules, it also says "If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls."

Basically, we have two statements regarding two different circumstances (using natural weapons with manufactured weapons and having only one natural attack), and both statements say "THIS HAPPENS ALWAYS NO MATTER WHAT." Except if you meet both of the circumstances, they can't both be true. Is there an official ruling on this?

If a creature has only one natural attack and they use it as a primary attack (in other words, they don't use any manufactured weapons), then they get the 1.5x Strength bonus. If they use it as a secondary attack (which it ALWAYS will be if they're also using weapons), then they only get .5x Str bonus. So, let's say a half-orc has the Toothy trait, gaining him a bite attack. He can use only that bite attack in a round, which gives him 1.5x Str damage, or he can use a longsword and his bite, which means the longsword is at full attack bonus dealing 1x Str damage, and his bite is at -5 attack bonus dealing .5x Str.

[oneplus999]

Interesting find :) but this is just a case of poor wording.

Where they say
"If a creature has only one natural attack"

I suppose it should really be
"If a creature has only one attack, and it is a natural attack"

When in doubt, go with the rules written for the more specific case, which would be "weapon+nat attack".

[Kasuri of Daikitsu]

What about feats multiattack and two-weapon fighting. Do you have to have both or one of the two to reduce the penalty.

[Java Man]

Two weapon fighting concerns the use of two manufactured weapons or unarmed attacks, no interaction with natural weapons. Multiattack would reduce the penalties for secondary attacks.

[Kasuri of Daikitsu]

Java Man wrote:

Two weapon fighting concerns the use of two manufactured weapons or unarmed attacks, no interaction with natural weapons. Multiattack would reduce the penalties for secondary attacks.

Cool, thanks. I wold love to use a two handed weapon followed up with a bite.

[Diachronos]

Kasuri of Daikitsu wrote:

Java Man wrote:

Two weapon fighting concerns the use of two manufactured weapons or unarmed attacks, no interaction with natural weapons. Multiattack would reduce the penalties for secondary attacks.

Cool, thanks. I wold love to use a two handed weapon followed up with a bite.

The only issue with Multiattack is that you need at least 3 natural attacks to qualify for it. If you can get it, though, it's well worth the investment, especially if the secondary attack you're using has a special effect on it like trip.