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Animals and secondary attacks vs. Combat trained...


Rules Questions


Docile (Ex) Unless specifically trained for combat (see the Handle Animal skill), a horse's hooves are treated as secondary attacks.

this line under the heading for Horses in the Bestiary seems to imply that Combat training turns secondary attacks into primary attacks but under the Handle Animal Skill I'm not seeing this as a part of the skill?

Am I being redirected down the wrong path? is this a bad case of cut and paste on the Bestiary?


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BltzKrg242 wrote:
this line under the heading for Horses in the Bestiary seems to imply that Combat training turns secondary attacks into primary attacks but under the Handle Animal Skill I'm not seeing this as a part of the skill?

Combat training essentially removes the docile condition.

If you have something that is not docile, then combat training does what combat training always does.


So only Docile creatures benefit from Combat Training in this way?
meaning that secondary attacks no longer count as secondary attacks? But for any other creature, then no bueno.


Think of it a different way: If the horse didn't have the "Docile" trait, then its hooves would have already been primary attacks as per the normal natural attack rules.


BltzKrg242 wrote:

So only Docile creatures benefit from Combat Training in this way?

meaning that secondary attacks no longer count as secondary attacks? But for any other creature, then no bueno.

Creatures with the Docile (Ex) ability treat their hooves as secondary attacks, unless they have combat training. If that creature gets combat training, you no longer treat it's hooves as secondary attacks, you treat them exactly like you would if the creature was not docile.

Since the horse has only one type of attack (hooves) they are then treated as primary attacks. If that same combat trained horse got a bite attack somehow, it's hooves would revert back to secondary attacks, because hooves ARE secondary attacks unless specified otherwise.

For anything without the Docile (Ex) ability, combat training only does what combat training says it does.


BltzKrg242 wrote:

So only Docile creatures benefit from Combat Training in this way?

meaning that secondary attacks no longer count as secondary attacks? But for any other creature, then no bueno.

Creatures with the Docile (Ex) ability treat their hooves as secondary attacks, unless they have combat training. If that creature gets combat training, you no longer treat it's hooves as secondary attacks, you treat them exactly like you would if the creature was not docile.

Since the horse has only one type of attack (hooves) they are then treated as primary attacks. If that same combat trained horse got a bite attack somehow, it's hooves would revert back to secondary attacks, because hooves ARE secondary attacks unless specified otherwise.

For anything without the Docile (Ex) ability, combat training only does what combat training says it does.

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