Familiars and Aid Another?


Rules Questions


Can a familiar help with the Aid Another action? In every situation it has the needed skill for? Or only some? And what about providing a bonus to hit or to AC?


Derwalt wrote:
Can a familiar help with the Aid Another action? In every situation it has the needed skill for? Or only some? And what about providing a bonus to hit or to AC?

I don't see why they couldnt use aid another if they're phycically capable. Remember they have the same ranks as their masters in skills.

I don;t know about hit unless they're flanking.

As far as AC goes, unless you're using them as a shield I don't see how unless it specifically says so in the familiar boons. I think a hedgehog gives a +1 natural AC if memory serves.


I'd be leery of aid another for to hit and ac purposes.

In order to do so, one typically needs to be in melee combat range...
Since familiars are tiny, and don't threaten adjacent squares, they have to move into the opponents space to do the melee combat aid another option, which would provoke an attack of opportunity every time.


EvilMinion wrote:

I'd be leery of aid another for to hit and ac purposes.

In order to do so, one typically needs to be in melee combat range...
Since familiars are tiny, and don't threaten adjacent squares, they have to move into the opponents space to do the melee combat aid another option, which would provoke an attack of opportunity every time.

So CAN, yes. Should? Probably not.


Derwalt wrote:
Can a familiar help with the Aid Another action?

Yes. In exactly the same ways as a PC.

There are weird corner cases, like aiding someone on a saving throw. It's not defined in the rules, so however it works for PCs should be how it works for a familiar.

If you want to aid another in combat, to add AC or a bonus to hit, you must be in a position to make a melee attack on the target. In most cases this means adjacent (if your familiar is small) or within the opponents square (if your familiar is smaller than small).


Yes, I had thought about the reach problem. That would have to be solved somehow (or it would probably be too dangerous).

But you all agree it shoudl work (depending on GM) in out of combat situations? What about diplomacy? Sense Motive? Survival? Swim? Climb? What do you guys think? :)


Derwalt wrote:
Yes, I had thought about the reach problem. That would have to be solved somehow (or it would probably be too dangerous).
The Evolved Familiar feat can give mr. Toad a 5' tongue.
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But you all agree it shoudl work (depending on GM) in out of combat situations?
I don't know if everyone agrees, but I do - within reason of course.
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What about diplomacy?
Only if Polly can talk.
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Sense Motive?
Only if Polly can talk to you.
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Survival?
Only if Polly can scurry around freely.
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Swim? Climb? What do you guys think? :)

I think you're getting silly now. Although a familiar with a swim speed might give you some pointers, and one that can fly might plot out the best route to scale the mountain. So... anything is possible. Just make it make sense.


VRMH wrote:
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What about diplomacy?
Only if Polly can talk.

It's not making a diplomacy check, it's just helping you. If it has the ranks (and it can use yours), why not? You're saying someone isn't more diplomatic if they have a fuzzy kitty that yawns at just the right time?

VRMH wrote:
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Sense Motive?
Only if Polly can talk to you.

Why would it need to talk? You're checking this guy out to see if he's legit, hey, you notice Polly's hackles are raised. Maybe there is something off about this guy...

VRMH wrote:
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Swim? Climb? What do you guys think? :)
I think you're getting silly now. Although a familiar with a swim speed might give you some pointers, and one that can fly might plot out the best route to scale the mountain. So... anything is possible. Just make it make sense.

It shouldn't need the travel speed, just the ability to make a check. Polly probably doesn't have a climb speed, but if it has ranks in climb it could certainly attempt it, and by doing so give you a minor bonus on your own attempt.

Aid Another is one of the prime uses of familiars, don't remove it without good reason.


Grick wrote:
VRMH wrote:
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What about diplomacy?
Only if Polly can talk.
It's not making a diplomacy check, it's just helping you. If it has the ranks (and it can use yours), why not?
Because it has to help. The familiar has to be actively involved. Familiars are creatures, not static bonus providers.
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You're saying someone isn't more diplomatic if they have a fuzzy kitty that yawns at just the right time?

I'm getting a Bond villain vibe from that... it's not helping any diplomacy. ;)

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VRMH wrote:
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Sense Motive?
Only if Polly can talk to you.
Why would it need to talk?
Again: the familiar is helping. It can't help if it can't point out the guy is sweating.
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You're checking this guy out to see if he's legit, hey, you notice Polly's hackles are raised. Maybe there is something off about this guy...

That's a good example... of Polly having made its own Sense Motive check, not of it helping you with yours.

I love familiars, and I love the Aid Another option. But it has to all make sense. A GM has to be able to decide that your pet goldfish does not make you a better swimmer, no matter how well it can swim itself. Actual aiding has to be involved, not merely skillpoint checking and d20 rolling.

Dark Archive

I was just discussing this with one of my players and we were having some difficulty figuring out how it is intended to work. The guidelines for the Aid Another action are vague at best and I guess ultimately up to the GM in each and every case. I tend not to like that sort of thing.

The key phrases in the rules I fall back on are "you can't aid another to grant a bonus to a task that your character couldn't achieve alone" and "In many cases, a character's help won't be beneficial, or only a limited number of characters can help at once." So, if the helper can perform the skill on his own, and help would logically increase the chance of success, I allow it.

If it's a passive ability (such as most uses of Perception and Sense Motive) or you simply can't have more than one person making the attempt (most uses of skills such as Acrobatics, Disable Device, Climb, Swim, etc.) the Aiding Another either isn't an option or doesn't provide a bonus.


I could see a Wizard trying to fly a magic carpet and his familiar, mr. monkey jumps from side to side to balance the thing out to prevent it from turning over and such things.

And I could see a familiar aid with picking pockets and stuff by distracting someone at the right moment. Be it by making a noise or by rubbing it's head to the "victim's" knee and such.

For climbing mr. monkey could tell the wizard where good handholds are.

Aid another Houserule:
As a house rule I let two people who want to do something together roll both. The one rolling lower is the one aiding, the one rolling higher is the one doing the job unless it is something where actually only one can do the job. That prevents situations where the helper rolls a 20 and the one doing it rolls a 2 and they fail, where the helper alone would have succeeded.

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