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Given the developments of AP-IV (Island of Empty Eyes) and AP-V (Price of Infamy) the Adventure Path gets
Sort of feels ......underwhelming. Dungeons. No Dragons. Now with pirates. Arrrrrrrh.
This sort of makes me sad, I really would have looked for somethimg more along the lines of "Fantastic Voyages" and "Forgotten Coasts", hidden beaches in the mist and rich treasures on faraway shores. You know piracy and "Bring me that Horizon !"
probably just me
I feel like it isnt all that crazy. If you look at the PotC movies, thry have several dungeon crawls/island adventures. But I agree that some more pirating would be good.
So what would be some good targets for high level pirating. I feel like a big pirate raid in book five and six would be great. I'm hoping my players will bring some backstory that could link into this, but I don't want them just fighting pirates. Maybe a pirate hunting ship or fleet comes after them, or chasing some buried treasure
Perhaps a big showdown on a pirate ship?
I do agree that the move away from the high seas is dissapointing. Especially sicne the characters are going to be more geared for adventuring on the ocean rather than in the dungeona nd might end up lackign crucial skills.
Hmm, haven't downloaded Vol 6 yet. You mean the PCs don't trade broadsides with the Filthy Lucre and its cannons?
Hmm, haven't downloaded Vol 6 yet. You mean the PCs don't trade broadsides with the Filthy Lucre and its cannons?
yes .....and no^^
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I don't think "Pirates of the Carribean" is the sole measure for pirate movies. Especially because they are Disney-esque. And I do not recall too many dungeons in those movies anyway (except the really bad last one). In fact, do they even enter any building in Part I or II ?
Take a good long look at the classic Errol Flynn movies.
the last three Parts are
Island : huge dungeon + very railroadish social "comedy" event. And I mean VERY railroadish
Price : small Dungeon + tactical fleet battle + large dungeon
Heart : large tactical fleet battle + one huge dungeon (one that can even more easily be utterly ruined by going in backwards).
All of these stories could as easily have been part of any Adventure Path. Nothing piratish or naval - the battles could just as easily have been fought with army regiment counters on any old battlemap - about them.
No real freedom of action. No rum. No chases. No cool treasure maps with an X on them. No ghosts in the moonlight.
If they had just used two or more pages each issue for some fun side-trek adventure or an interesting "nothing to do with the main-plot" event... say like the "pirate cantina of salted souls", the "Smuggler's Den of Broken Bart", a ghost ship or a vessel full of pestilence here, a strange contraption like a huge medusa with a ship anchored to her back there... nothing. No fun sea-monsters. No raids on a slavers nest or freeing some potential allies/safeguards from another pirate's den.... Not even undersea adventures after part three. Why not recruit some undersea folks or even trick the Sahuagin into participation during the final episodes ?
Oh right... no dungeon to crawl, I guess. The one real original part of the AP is the first.
And..... it really could have been done better, as Green Ronin proved some years back with their "Freeport" series. Mysterious opposition, vile cults, oddly glowing underwater caves, evil islands, a bermuda triangle of mystery....the works !
Too bad my group already played through those.
Methinks I will end the whole main plot with AP-V, and extend the evils of Harrigan some more. There are some nice ideas for cultistic islands in the Shackle's guide, I'll go from there.
Because... you know basically, didn't the authors take a good look at the Spanish Armada or the Mongolian Invasion of Japan ? One freaking bizarre storm...and not much plot for AP-VI at all. Because all those wooden ships in a hurricane strength gale, surrounded by reefs... Witha major NPC named the "Master of Gales"...and who would actually want to be the King of Pirates ?
Why not even have the players go for an all-out ritual to extend the Eye outwards for a while, froma mysterious island ? Doing nasty but piratish stuff like possibly slaying crew and compatriots to enable such ritual-ized Force-V storm to leak into being. Or choosing between two evils to embrace to ensure the existence of the Shackles... And have Harrigan actually trying to wreck these undertakings from beyond the grave (or is he actually dead... ?)
*sad*
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I did absolutely feel that there was a bit of a missed opportunity with S&S6. The first thing I noticed was the pacing- you don't really gather allies, you automatically get 3 (unless you pissed them off at some point prior), similarly, the climax feels way less impressive than the actual biggest naval battle ever.
Event 1: This is the actual fleet battle, as written. maybe some changes.
Event 2: These will be a set of ~3 regular combats which break out with summoned Devils, Chelish naval forces, etc.
Event 3: These will be Weather Events (S&S3) which come off the Eye of Abendego, which the fight will actually take place *inside of*. Your fleet is shielded by the Master of the Gales, Cheliax is shielded by the Archdevil, RAR.
Event 4: These are semi-random 'encounters' which change whatever else is going on. Maybe the Master of the Gales' ships (yes, ships) are attacked and you have to aid him or lose your protection from the Eye. Maybe you overcome an important Chelish ship and you want some boarding action. Maybe you just see Tessa Fairwind pull off some crazy stunt. Sea Monster. Spontaneous Undead. Ghost of Harrigan. Dunno.
What do you think?
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Skull & Shackles was the first Adventure Path I bought. I'd heard great things about Kingmaker and as a massive pirate fan thought this would be perfect for me.
Unfortunately, I'm very disappointed with it. Part 1 is good and has the potential to lead on to great things but it all goes downhill after that. There are some nice maps that I can use elsewhere but the vast majority will remain unused. Indeed, I'm already thinking about putting all 6 parts up on eBay (and I haven't received my subscriber's copy of Part 6). Suffice to say, I've also cancelled my subscription to future Adventure Paths.
Just for the record I was hoping to find treasure maps, ghost ships, curses and lots of other, original, ideas all wrapped up in a sandbox environment.
Sorry Paizo, you missed the boat on this one :(
Paizo does have communication problems between the various writers(which is especially bad with multiple writers on one AP.)
I feel like thematically it is best if the Shackles themselves rise up to fight off Cheliax. I'm thinking about replacing the sword with something that could gather aid from the Eye. I don't want this to be without risk. The Shackles and the Eye should have some chaos involved, and calling on the power of storm should have risks.
I've watched a lot of pirate movies in preparation, everything on Netflix and oth things I have, but I would argue that pirates of the Caribbean are the only legitimate pirate movies made in the past forty years, I grew up on Errol Flynn on classic movie channels, but even in those there isn't that much time just on ships.
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I can see what's frustrating about this, and I have some issues with it as well.
That said here's my simple solution:
Reverse the two plot pieces.
The Chelish Navy is coming; Kerdak Bonefist refuses to organize a defense of the Shackles. Tessa Fairwind and other allies of the PCs call B**S*** on The Hurricane King. The PCs need to topple the Hurricane King (installing either themselves or Tessa Fairwind as the new Hurricane King/Queen) and they need to do it fast because Cheliax is on its way.
Basically as days pass Cheliax gets closer and closer to Port Peril, and if the PCs don't unite the Pirate Lords there's not going to be much of the Shackles left.
"But Cap'n Dudemeister Kerdak Bonefist and his fortress is built for APL 14 characters!"
I understand your concern, but the difference between APL 13 and 14 really isn't that much, plus if you want to reduce the challenge a little there are simple templates or you can retcon Kerdak's Sun Orchid Elixir out so he does take penalties for aging.
"But Cap'n Dudemeister, why didn't Paizo get it all perfect the first time?"
Look, run as written this is still a pretty great AP, and I'll duel any landlubber who says otherwise. It's a Sandbox, and while it doesn't have the convenience of a Hex Map like Kingmaker had it does require more work from a GM. That's the ship you signed on for.
"So what are we going to do now?"
Now never fear me hearties, because Ol' Cap'n Dudemeister is here to guide you through the storm! I'll take the hard work of Paizo and bring it up to a shiny polish, and give this treasure out for free.
Who wants:- Street Fights in Port Peril?
- Liberation of Pirate Ports?
- A Deadlier Chelish Navy?
- A quest draw out the Herald of Dagon from the water's depths to fight the Devil Bone Flagship of the Chelish Navy?
So sign on with Ol' Cap'n Dudemeister, I don't know the first thing about ships, but I think I know a thing or two about crafting an old pirate legend that you'll remember for a while.
DM_aka_Dudemeister
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WooooO!!
Director of Game Development
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I’m only commenting on a couple of particular complaints I’ve seen in this thread because it pertains to parts of the AP I actually touched. :)
For those who are saying there are no treasure maps, I’d like everyone to refer to the inside covers. Map of the Shackles… with four big ol’ Xs on it and four treasures per issue (each with enough flavor to inspire some side treks), fully usable to create a greater sandbox out of the area. In addition, in the introduction for each Bestiary, there are three write ups/hooks for pirate ships that can provide sandboxy encounters for the PCs.
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Here's my thread for the Wormwood Mutiny
Here's my thread for Dungeon Magazine Adventures and Module Recommendations many of which you can still buy the PDFs for. (Cheaply during the Paizo Sale).
There will be more to come, but usually what I'm posting is my prep notes for adventures I'm about to run.
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I do encourage any DM running S&S to use DM_aka_Dudemeister's alternate 'hook' for The Wormwood Mutiny. It's quite good, and gives the campaign a definitive goal structure through revenge on Cheliax, which I think any character suitable for this AP could probably get behind anyway. I also suggest using Smuggler's Shiv from Souls for Smuggler's Shiv, because it is a great fit.
My personal suggestion
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To the defense of the AP:
Haven't read 5 or 6 yet, so admittedly talking out of my ken.
Still, based on 1-4, I'm going to have a blast running this. It *does* have treasure maps. (Vol 2 is a deadly *walking* treasure map, at that.) Vol 4 has Bikendi's hidden stash - the map is not obvious but that is *so* a treasure map! The other maps require some work but yeah, 6 x 4 = 24 Xs on the Shackles marking spots of varying difficulty and sailor lore flavour.) It *does* have piratey flavour past Part 3. (At least, 4 does. More "island exploration" than dungeon crawl per se. The cyclops stronghold is more "cliff-hugging ruins" than dungeon crawl per se. You see that kind of stuff in various incarnations of Sinbad (boats without cannons but still good fun). *Tons* of potential adulty hottiness/ manipulative romances/ harbour in every port kind of thing. Article in 3 with Port Peril has tons of coastal urban hooks. Article in 4 with Mysteries of the Shackles has a solid handful of outlines for maritime mysteries. It does have ghost ships. Well, okay, ship(Whalebone Pilk).
Those cyclopes in Part 4: They're just an epic patient shove away from becoming *allies*. If your PCs like skirmishing giants, bonus! If your PCs like tackling complex issues like ending famine, bonus! I don't know what becomes of the off-screen cyclopes fleet but there's another shoe with weighty consequences: The Ghol-Gan Strikes Back! or Cyclopes Walking Siege Engine Crew on Your Team!
There's a lot of sand. Don't discount the S&S Players Guide: ship mods! special ammo!
I will change some of it. It's sculpting sand. (Sorrinash is *so* a wereshark. That was no mistake. :-D ) By virtue of it being sand, I don't thing it could all be quantified, at least not without drastically altering the format. Railroads are there, sure but I don't find them super solid. They're kind of mushy. There can be consequences for bucking them; maybe the "wrong" NPC lives. (And yeah, maybe the wrong PC dies...)
Huge plus that Charisma is a rewarding ability throughout the AP, even for non-spellcasters. Winning over crewmates. Winning over Free Captains. Winning over Pirate Lords. Spying/investigating! Seduction! But maybe your players like being crusty die-hard, murder-magnet bastards, bonus! No end of Pirate Lords to pillage and plunder. You can hire the Eel to help. (Big fan of the Eel. :-) )
Parts 5 and 6 would have to be pretty irredeemably epic craptacular to invalidate the above. Am prepared to eat my words if necessary.
Thank you for making a pirate AP! Thank you for tackling the sea-faring stuff!
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I've watched a lot of pirate movies in preparation, everything on Netflix and oth things I have, but I would argue that pirates of the Caribbean are the only legitimate pirate movies made in the past forty years, I grew up on Errol Flynn on classic movie channels, but even in those there isn't that much time just on ships.
Well : You might want to take a look at "Cutthroat Island" "Nate and Hayes", "Sinbad" and... "Master and Commander" (which is about chasinga a privateer )^^ just for starters. Or the strange but in parts brilliant "Pirates" by Roman Polanski. As well as the countless "Treasure Island" remakes. All of these made since the 1980.
also a good list of movies :
http://brethrencoast.com/Movies.html
And never mind the hundreds of book about Royal Navy Commanders and Captains in the Napoleonic wars, with a similar number in French about figures like Robert Surcouf and company, many of which can be most readily adapted to any pirate plot and intrigue. Or the truly great "Red Seas under Red Skies" by Scott Lynch, or even more obvious ...the (book !) "On Stranger Tides" by Tim Powers.
There is no fortress-clamouring in any of these. And that only makes them better, more interesting and... yes, more piratical.
Because in which film exactly do pirates traipse around in old castles, looking for their archenemy ? Or hitting monsters over the head room-by-room like some Stalingrad streetfighting remake ?
Where does treasure play a minor role but becoming an empty "King of the Pirates" is suddenly all decisive ? Or playing the nice social host longing for "acceptance" of society ? Did I put my foie-de-grasse cannapées the right way ?
Oh my gosh... is this a "Pirates - Stepford Wives ?" crossover ?
Bugger me sideways, but.... a pirate is all about being non-conventional, defying classic expectations of social graces and standing and impressing through daring deeds, thousands of Doubloons and not by serving spiked rum and having hookers as serving girls (a detail I found really... ahem disturbing )...
To my mind, a true pirate meets ones enemies on the quarterdeck, sabre in hand, if possible in a storm, after a ship-breaking chase....
Their content of "piracy" on the other hand in the final three parts is less than 5% IMHO
I’m only commenting on a couple of particular complaints I’ve seen in this thread because it pertains to parts of the AP I actually touched. :)
For those who are saying there are no treasure maps, I’d like everyone to refer to the inside covers. Map of the Shackles… with four big ol’ Xs on it and four treasures per issue (each with enough flavor to inspire some side treks), fully usable to create a greater sandbox out of the area. In addition, in the introduction for each Bestiary, there are three write ups/hooks for pirate ships that can provide sandboxy encounters for the PCs.
Well thanks Adam, but... If I need an idea I open the window, as the local saying goes. If I need to do all the work myself, well why do I actually buy the AP ?
In earlier adventure paths those maps/quests were integrated into the main plot (as in "Kingmaker"), or at least given shape through side treks (say as in "Legacy of Fire" ).
These are not part of the plot by the authors. The plot is, from AP-IV forward - mostly about crawling through old keeps. Even if it ever was Piraty, it is getting OLD, the third time around...
Piracy, ships, adventure, maps... all to be done by the intrepid customer himself ?
I think I fully AGREE with Cap'n Dude. Bring me some Dagon and insane worshippers, let's see some witchwood ships and of course, more fighting with daggers and hooks in the backstreets of Port Peril. Let's see if this cannot be severly improved.
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OOOO, I like Dudemiesters idea of switching the 2 plots round.
Possibly have it happen just before the fleet reaches Port Peril.
Gives a nice ending I think as the players face off against the fleet against the backdrop of the invaion on land with the Filthy Lycra blasting broadsides at Thrunes ship.
Much more satisfying this way round I think with a lot more at stake too as they are now defending their rightful throne.
Well : You might want to take a look at "Cutthroat Island" "Nate and Hayes", "Sinbad" and... "Master and Commander" (which is about chasing a a privateer )^^ just for starters. Or the strange but in parts brilliant "Pirates" by Roman Polanski. As well as the countless "Treasure Island" remakes.
also a good list of movies :
http://brethrencoast.com/Movies.html
Thanks for the homework list. Master and Commander, some Sinbad,the Disney PotCs are about all I've seen. Will see if I can scrounge up your other recommendations.
If I need to do all the work myself, well why do I actually buy the AP ?
Solid argument. I do hope that this AP triggers the development of more pirate adventures. Even mega-adventures spanning many levels like an AP.
You mentioned Green Ronin Freeport products a while ago. I saw them; they almost appealed to me. Haven't really got to touch them, though. I did have the impression that as piraty as it was, it was still all landlocked adventure. Did those adventures require DM editing to incorporate naval adventure?
I took a serious long look at 7th Sea. Awesome musketeer era stuff. No Sea. Bummer.
i like fantasy
i like pirates
im not sure fantasy pirates work.
our group have shelved this in the probably will never run pile
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i like fantasy
i like piratesim not sure fantasy pirates work.
our group have shelved this in the probably will never run pile
How about fantasy and pulp fiction?
Fantasy and eastern/far eastern culture?Fantasy and horror?
Not to be obtuse, but if combining 'fantasy' with other tropes doesn't work for you, most Adventure Paths probably won't either.
I mean, most of what people think of when they think of pirates is fantasy pirates.
slightly fantastic pirates..heroic leaping, rabid coach chases, and fencing off 5 opponents is cool...not fireball and flying pirates
And saying 'fantasy and pirates' doesnt work for me doesnt exclude everything else, so to quote Shawshank, you are obtuse
I dont like PF goblins,
Not everyone like every adventure path, and that is fine by me
You mentioned Green Ronin Freeport products a while ago. I saw them; they almost appealed to me. Haven't really got to touch them, though. I did have the impression that as piraty as it was, it was still all landlocked adventure. Did those adventures require DM editing to incorporate naval adventure?
I was basically talking the "Black Sails over Freeport" campaign, which features some insane cultists trying to raise... let's put it this way.... an alternative pirate Diety. Hunting for odd treasure on odder islands, some of it in a meta-dimension. Adventurous island hopping for pirates. Wasn't perfect, but we have never run an AP as written anyway.
As for naval adventures (like boarding etc.), we always (and still are) doing that home-brew style, since the group consists of too many people sailing as a hobby, people with actual family in the merchant marine or naval shipping etc etc.
Hence, we have a semi-professional respect for the sea, first-hand and via family, and run this stuff by entirely different rules.
Requires a great deal of enthusiasm and spare time though, but vessels hereabouts actually have sailing diagrams about their respective speeds, drift and secondary capabilities, taking into account swell, tides, leeshores and wind-shadow etc. And yes, ship maintenance plays into that as well (careening, maintaining sail, previous battle-damage). Fun for us, probably not everyone's sort of brew though.
So almost all our naval stuff is "homebrew" edition. Tomorrow will have a fleet of Kuru war-canoes attacking the PCs ship^^
Or the strange but in parts brilliant "Pirates" by Roman Polanski.Wait, that's not the Pirates movie I remember seeing...
It even had a sequal!Captain Edward Reynolds was the man!
You, dear sir, have a vile taste for the illusionary glamours^^ I daresay, that particular succubic fancy looks like it will put brand new definitions to the old saying of "pole-ing the craft"...
Polanski's Oeuvre : Pirates
I mean, most of what people think of when they think of pirates is fantasy pirates.
Yeah, the PotC series has quite a lot of fantasy stuff in it (undead pirates, the Flying Dutchman), but still, fireball-throwing and demon-summoning pirates is probably too much "regular" fantasy in it. That all this is based on a romanticized picture of real 17/18th century pirating is obvious, and a heavy dose of fantasy thrown in for good measure. It is a difficult topic given the rules as they are.
High fantasy rules bordering on a superhero game in the higher levels (IMO) are not really well suited to replaying sindbad or the red corsair, after all.
Taking movies as templates, I´d say most movie heroes are middle-level at best, with spells and magic used very rarely, mostly by "NPCs", or used as special abilities by the main characters, not as spells per se. So, any pirate approximation using standard fantasy rules will have its problems, as the rules don´t really give a good reflection of the expectations (the same could be true for, say, western or horror settings).
That said, there is an abundance of dungeony parts. But then, the attacking-ship/boarding-action/treasure-digging routine will get boring at some point as well. This would have been criticized as well if it had been a major part of the AP, with, say, two such pieces in each part. This routine will have a big place in the AP if you leave the infamy mechanic in place anyways, and as it stands, this is relegated to the sidelines pretty much.
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Promised as much in another thread, here come some "high stakes" ships to chase and carry for capable pirates. I don't think high-end piracy would be boring...and I am not even a professional writer^^ (this is an hour's work of lying back on the terrrace with a tablet)
Feel free to steal and use.... Arrrrrrrrh !
The White Ship (straight from Lovecraft)
The dimension-defying White Ship of Lovecraftian fame is sailing through the waters, heading for Segoth, or correntyn or Sargav... or even for Hell's harbour. The white schooner looks innocuous, though it is anything but harmless. Major haul of magical oddities and utterly strange terrors (say, Shoggoths in magical bottles, odd, mind twisting gasses in quartz tubes, still beating triple chambered hearts of unknown species...) and insanity inducing visions. Weird extrplanar merchants with very special needs and information for sale, that few moratl ears should listen too. May thereby also become a major quest giver or a brilliant point to off-load some odd treasures. Best compare with the short exposee in "Legacy of Fire" and reading some Lovecraft.
Cutting Out
An Aspis Consortium galleon has been loading up on goods and scores of plunder in the harbour of Bloodcove, but will not sail unless some chelian man-o-war has arrived to escort it. There are a dozen or more points worth of plunder, but actually storming the galleon and silently sailing her out of the harbour of Bloodcove will be a major undertaking, under cover of darkness and pressed for time.
Nevermind, that the captain has at least one devil on hand and has hired some capable necromancers to defend his ship and especially the cargo. Oh, and a really nice chase with the pirates trying to get away before the Aspis consortium catches them should result in any case !
Andorian merchantman full of Dagonese Priests
Possibly on the way to a local island (volcano ?) which they intend to erupt and sink the island back beneath the sea, at tremendous loss of life (tsunami etc..). even evil priest have to go places someway, and... yeah, sometime they ride coach^^
The Jellous Ghost Ship
Actually a well preserved (slime-coated ) wreck riding atop a monstrous jelly fish (a gargantuan or larger Medusa)... sneaking poisonous tentacles, "ejected" gelatinous cubes as deadly, self propelled effuse, poison resistant lobster-monsters and anemones.... chasing down the ship aand teh soft food inside , the PCs will likely run aground on the sticky/gelatinous upper dome of the Medusa.... Now there will be tentacles and all sorts of parasites angling for the "soft prey". and yes, to teh Medusa these stuck ships actually provide much needed nourishment in the form of rare metals... aka Gold and silver
Fey-Elven "light" clipper ( or a vessel from Hermia...)
Old elven technology, run rather by light striking the sails and electric charges than by wind... possibly in a mean quandary after a few days of storm or trying to chase it down at night. Perhaps add some mounted guards (Griffons?) or aa young golden Dragon as extra security... but the plunder from the thing ! Worth it all...
Dragonturtle Isle
Slain Dragon Turtle, hollowed out by (ancient, say Shuagin, aboleth or Ghol-Gan) mages and equipped as an armoured submersible magical vessel and transport, now commanded by a group of ruthless Alchemists or a powerful conjurer and several elementals..... Powered.. hmmm mechanical flippers ? Water elemental pumping engine ? Or have a chained and mind-numbed Marid "locked" into the vessel and driving it forward as a suicidical ship sinking Nautilus !...... underwater exploration and exploitation, digging up sunken vessels... Plus the oddest of loots, huge storage of weird corals... rare elemental water essences....
Alternatively, fill with Undead... or both...zombie crabs and lobotomized Lobsters (stealing from Neill Asher's polity her )... encountered when it rams a ship the PCs have just chased down or even captured ?
The Harpy's Nest...
( Scylla, no Charybdis) a tribe of clever harpies (led by a capable bard) has taken over a rahadoumi merchant ship and have the crew ship them (by song, charm, or outright blackmail) in range of local targets, then disappearing after feeding. Escape might be difficult because the crew might easily fall prey to the harpy's Song. Add some Alchemist harpies for "mean droppings"
Dandan Island : legendary and "relocating" island, allegedly The abode of captain Long-Pegs Splinter's treasure (he can always find it, since he has a number of ex-crew aboard as animated and chained undead --- plus on of those Iron Skull rings. ). It's said to be mounted on the third rocky outcrop of the barren ridge on the island...(as the PCs have been breathlessly told... or find out from a waterproof map on the drowned pirate corpse halfway up the hill) aka the Dorsal Fin.... "digging" might prove problematic, as striking into the DanDan's shell will slowly awaken it, causing "earthquakes", a noted lean of the island and possible submersion ! Dig harder ! Avoid the downdraft !
Great Mwangi war-barge
Local Mwangi (or Kuru ?) slaver galley on coastal run - filled with shackled Rahadoumi (?) grabbed as slaves for local consumption (slaves and food) , possibly in the stolen lands. Best encountered on a calm day... or run up on a beach, with the Crew holding an inpromptu barbecue...
Chelian ghost Ship
Taking a note from the Infernus, here the "ghouls" got free and infected the crew of the entire Warship...... face the wrath of a hundred ghouls ! The Ghost of the Captain still runs the ship, afraid that if he cannot fulfill his final missive, his soul might just be sucked down to hell and eternal Damnation.... Oh, and let's have som catapults loaded with rotten offal, which upon striking the PCs vessel set free swarms of deadly maggots !
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Those are some neat ideas, Vikingson.
I had one several years ago, the Orb Weaver, a vessel created out of the hollowed-out carapace of a titanic spider. Upside down, it's legs curled up dead as masts with drapes of webbing as sails, it is crewed by ettercaps with a aranea sorcerer as captain. Boarders have to deal with swarms, entangling webbing, and its deadly spider-kin crew. Maybe throw in some Driders if you need to up the CR.
I plan on Captaining this adventure path, I haven't read part 6 but I already notice several things I want to change.
My main problem with the path as written is that the PC's, being pirates, have no stake in saving the Shackles.
I have real problems in imagining how I'd explain to the players why they shouldn't cut their losses once they hear of the Chelish invaders and make a beeline for Riddleport, Magnimar or Korvosa and live like kings.
Sure they have a lighthouse on some island and a fortress on some other cyclops infested island but they don't really have a stake in saving the shackles. This is compounded by the obvious fact that they're pirates and were told to make such characters from the start. If the Shackles are going to be overrun by Cheliax then I guess it's time to start pirating elsewhere.
I think I'll have the first 4 parts of the adventure revolve around them securing and maintaining an increasing portion of the Shackles. I haven't read or run Kingmaker, but from what I gather it'd be similar I guess.
I've already added a whole load of colonies and resources to the Shackles to make them feel abit like the southwest pacific (even though I've never been there). Like, with small islands all over the place, exotic natives (Making the kuru more like Maori) loads of sugar, cotton, rare metals, rare reagents, exotic woods and spices with both established and fledgeling colonies from the various nations from the Inner Sea that have to both fight off others interested in their islands or plots and then get the goods safely back to the Inner Sea. With that kind of environment a thriving pirate community makes a lot of sense.
Currently I don't understand what the Shackle pirates are stealing exactly. Plunder from other pirates? Sargavan trade ships (thus crippling the tribute they receive from Sagava). There's currently nothing IN the shackles to make traders move there or anything past the shackles that'd warrant a large armada of traders (if there is and I've just missed it, let me know!)
As the players start their career they prey on these communities until eventually they're protecting and uniting the very same communities from the predation of other pirates and from annexation/destruction by Cheliax.
I think I might adopt the ship combat rules from Legends of the High Seas (Warhammer Historical) or perhaps a modified version of Dreadfleet. I don't want to hand-wave the ship to ship combat parts away and delegate them to a mini game.
I see a lot of people saying how the love Shatter Star and how it is getting back to the roots of dungeon crawling and it frustrates me a little because I do not really see when or where the APs have ever really gotten away from Dungeon Crawling. Skull and Shackles seems like it could be very much like Shatter Star except the mode of transportation is boat.
This really really bears repeating. This is a (disturbing) trend seen in many of Paizo's APs, especially their most recent ones.
Back to the roots of dungeon crawling? It always been dungeons! Too many of them! Even when grossly inappropriate!
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I see a lot of people saying how the love Shatter Star and how it is getting back to the roots of dungeon crawling and it frustrates me a little because I do not really see when or where the APs have ever really gotten away from Dungeon Crawling. Skull and Shackles seems like it could be very much like Shatter Star except the mode of transportation is boat.This really really bears repeating. This is a (disturbing) trend seen in many of Paizo's APs, especially their most recent ones.
Back to the roots of dungeon crawling? It always been dungeons! Too many of them! Even when grossly inappropriate!
+1 (make that an easy +2 or +3 or whatever ).
There hasn't been a single AP without the "obligatory" dungeon crawl. The one part of the path you really had to scribe something less walled in for instead, which did not involve a single map serving you for several levels of character advancement. Pirate AP : Sail the seven seas, capture ships, feel the wind in your hair while hauling dubloons from the sea.... also three mainstay dungeons^^
Lookingback over the last five year of APs, the truly good ones... for me...
"Hook Mountain Massacre"
"Trial of the Beast"
"End of Eternity"
"Escape from Old Korvosa"
"Seven Days to the Grave"
"Spires of Xin Shalast"
"Sound of a Thousand Screams"
"Wake of the Watcher"
Much beloved by my group. Yeah, no Dungeon Crawls...
If I need to do all the work myself, well why do I actually buy the AP ?Solid argument. I do hope that this AP triggers the development of more pirate adventures. Even mega-adventures spanning many levels like an AP.
Who's gonna write them ? If not the guys who actually pulled the APs from the dungeons and into an involved world.
Problem with Dungeon crawling in S&S is that many of the PCs will be made with water adventures in mind; lots of Swim,Prof-Sailor, lightly armored types, Peg legs and parrots. I keep thinking that the while pirate theme will get pushed aside
I see a lot of people saying how the love Shatter Star and how it is getting back to the roots of dungeon crawling and it frustrates me a little because I do not really see when or where the APs have ever really gotten away from Dungeon Crawling. Skull and Shackles seems like it could be very much like Shatter Star except the mode of transportation is boat.This really really bears repeating. This is a (disturbing) trend seen in many of Paizo's APs, especially their most recent ones.
Back to the roots of dungeon crawling? It always been dungeons! Too many of them! Even when grossly inappropriate!
+1 (make that an easy +2 or +3 or whatever ).
There hasn't been a single AP without the "obligatory" dungeon crawl. The one part of the path you really had to scribe something less walled in for instead, which did not involve a single map serving you for several levels of character advancement. Pirate AP : Sail the seven seas, capture ships, feel the wind in your hair while hauling dubloons from the sea.... also three mainstay dungeons^^
Lookingback over the last five year of APs, the truly good ones... for me...
"Hook Mountain Massacre"
"Trial of the Beast"
"End of Eternity"
"Escape from Old Korvosa"
"Seven Days to the Grave"
"Spires of Xin Shalast"
"Sound of a Thousand Screams"
"Wake of the Watcher"Much beloved by my group. Yeah, no Dungeon Crawls...
Not trying to defend Skull and Shackles, but. . . um, but almost all of those modules have dungeons (except, maybe, SoXS and SoaTS). I mean, sure, many of those dungeons are really small and not very "crawly" but that's really no different than many of the dungeons in Skull and Shackles.
Maybe have a reverse Wormwood Muitany? The characters now have their own ship and have to determine how to run it with jobs,punishments and so on. Book one does have ship routines but letting the players have a go on a friesh ship as the captains might be interesting
"Can you turn these scallywags into true pirates?"
Not trying to defend Skull and Shackles, but. . . um, but almost all of those modules have dungeons (except, maybe, SoXS and SoaTS). I mean, sure, many of those dungeons are really small and not very "crawly" but that's really no different than many of the dungeons in Skull and Shackles.
A dungeon crawl (to me) is, when the main course of the action happens only in one large dungeon.
say :"House of the Beast"
"Haunting of Harrowstone"
"Skeletons of Scarwall"
"Sins of the Saviour"
"City of Seven Spears"
and in S&S :
Island : large cyclops fortress which _has_ to be successfully passed, 20+ rooms, plus exterior cyclopic preliminaries
Price : Castle of BBEG #1, must be successfully run... 25+ rooms ?
Hurricane King : Castle of the BBEG #2, 25+ rooms ?
I like locations, which provide a focus for activity around them. Not locations which absolutely require to be run through, roon by room, for levels on end, to complete the AP.
One could almost hazard a thought that Gary Gygax was on to something when he named the game "Dungeons and Dragons"...
I might have missed the memo on him being omniscient and the only true GM on this planet...I have read mmost of his adventures and... sorry to say, they aren't that good.
And that was 40 years ago. Yeah, I played the "red box" and Ad&D first ed. Things have evolved since then. Oh, and the game is called "Pathfinder" these days.. you know, like in exploring^^
I like the AP. The first three installments may need some adaption and added encounters. Fine by me... but the final triad .... major rework with less room-by-room stuff pulled in left and right, upgrading Harrigan and making his showdown the final episode for a better narrative.
Heck, I might even have Harrigan kill the Hurricane King by backstabbery while the characters are busy stopping the Chelian Fleet...
As for "Shattered Star"... I wouldn't really know who to master a "six crawls" path for.
Not trying to defend Skull and Shackles, but. . . um, but almost all of those modules have dungeons (except, maybe, SoXS and SoaTS). I mean, sure, many of those dungeons are really small and not very "crawly" but that's really no different than many of the dungeons in Skull and Shackles.A dungeon crawl (to me) is, when the main course of the action happens only in one large dungeon.
say :
"House of the Beast"
"Haunting of Harrowstone"
"Skeletons of Scarwall"
"Sins of the Saviour"
"City of Seven Spears"and in S&S :
Island : large cyclops fortress which _has_ to be successfully passed, 20+ rooms, plus exterior cyclopic preliminaries
Price : Castle of BBEG #1, must be successfully run... 25+ rooms ?
Hurricane King : Castle of the BBEG #2, 25+ rooms ?I like locations, which provide a focus for activity around them. Not locations which absolutely require to be run through, roon by room, for levels on end, to complete the AP.
One could almost hazard a thought that Gary Gygax was on to something when he named the game "Dungeons and Dragons"...I might have missed the memo on him being omniscient and the only true GM on this planet...I have read mmost of his adventures and... sorry to say, they aren't that good.
And that was 40 years ago. Yeah, I played the "red box" and Ad&D first ed. Things have evolved since then. Oh, and the game is called "Pathfinder" these days.. you know, like in exploring^^
I like the AP. The first three installments may need some adaption and added encounters. Fine by me... but the final triad .... major rework with less room-by-room stuff pulled in left and right, upgrading Harrigan and making his showdown the final episode for a better narrative.
Heck, I might even have Harrigan kill the Hurricane King by backstabbery while the characters are busy stopping the Chelian Fleet...As for "Shattered Star"... I wouldn't really know who to master a "six crawls" path for.
No comment on the second half of your post as that all really comes down to preference and flavor. Different strokes for different folks. As for the first part, now I get where you're coming from. Those are excellent examples and certainly not for everyone. On the other hand, looking at the Skull and Shackles examples:
Island: except there's also an entire island to explore and a pivotal pirate's feast to host. The cyclopes ruins only takes up 10 pages (including map) of the 56 page adventure. Under 1/5 total.
Price: also contains pirate council meetings, more islands to explore, a fleet battle, and the only way you get 25+ dungeon room is if you combine the Black Tower with the BBEG castle (the castle alone is only 21 rooms if you include the perimeter encounters). The island at the end, including everything on it, takes up 13 pages (including map) of the 56 page adventure. Just over 1/5 total.
Hurricane King: I can't speak for this one yet since I'm still waiting to get a copy.
All told, this looks to be a matter of just seeing what you want to see. As I said, these modules are about as "Crawly" as many of the ones you listed originally as "truly good ones" (Hook Mountain Massacre, Wake of the Watcher, etc.). In fact, some of those have dungeons that take up considerably more of the adventure than any of the ones in Skull and Shackles.