Re: Share spells, planetouched and PFS.

Ok, I think this falls under the common sense ruling.

What happens if you target someone who is an invalid target for your spell. If I hit a tiefling with Dominate Person the spell doesn't ping 'invalid target, please select a valid target and try again' right? And it is still cast, right?

So the tiefling can cast enlarge person on himself. It has no effect on him, but he's cast it.

A friendly wizard casts enlarge person on the tiefling's eidolon. Spell goes off, no effect, spell is expended.

Now a tiefling summoner casts enlarge person on his digimo- er eidolon. His class ability makes Tentomon a valid target and he digiv- er enlarges.

Likewise, let's say a druid gets evolution surge as a druid spell. He casts it on Fozzy his cave bear companion. It affects him, and then does nothing because you can't add evolutions to an animal companion.

Simple.

I'm going to say, the Class Ability DOES NOT make the Eidolon/Animal Companion a valid target, but otherwise yes.

FWIW, ifrit can use Efreeti Magic to enlarge person once a day.

But he can't enlarge his Tiefling friend :P

That's because Tieflings are born of an inferior plane.

That's because Tieflings are born of an inferior plane.

It isn't an inferior plane! It is just a lower level one.

Kyle Baird wrote:

That's because Tieflings are born of an inferior plane.

It isn't an inferior plane! It is just a lower level one.

Semantics. You're all meatbags. ;-)

Addressing the original topic: it's also worth noting that hideous laughter is noticably less effective for aasimar and tiefling casters than it would otherwise be, especially at low levels.

Chris Mortika wrote:

...snipping good stuff...

could cast black tentacles on his eidolon rather than an area?

...snipping other good stuff....

the image this brings to mind! wow!

Particularly as Share Spells is touch range only. Deliberately putting yourself inside a Black Tentacles area as a caster is hard core.

That's because Tieflings are born of an inferior plane.

What plane isn't the MATERIAL plane inferior to. . .

nosig wrote:

Chris Mortika wrote:

...snipping good stuff...

could cast black tentacles on his eidolon rather than an area?

...snipping other good stuff....

the image this brings to mind! wow!

Particularly as Share Spells is touch range only. Deliberately putting yourself inside a Black Tentacles area as a caster is hard core.

Only spells with a range of "personal" become touch range.

Sapphire Onion wrote:

nosig wrote:

Chris Mortika wrote:

...snipping good stuff...

could cast black tentacles on his eidolon rather than an area?

...snipping other good stuff....

the image this brings to mind! wow!

Particularly as Share Spells is touch range only. Deliberately putting yourself inside a Black Tentacles area as a caster is hard core.

Only spells with a range of "personal" become touch range.

I don't think anyone was saying you could cast black tentacles on an eidolon, in fact I think it was actually being used as an example of something you couldn't do.

I just had a mental image of someones eidolon having black tentacles and getting the Monty Python image of "A 20 foot electric penguin, with tentacles!". It was a mis-guided attempt at humor. Sorry.

Note also that the Detect Good/Evil/Chaos/Law line of spells will detect Aasimars, Tieflings and other Outsiders at level 1 rather than the normal level 6.

I think Detect Alignment spells only detect Outsiders that have that Alignment Subtype at 1st level, not any Outsider who has that Alignment (Intent). I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's how it works. Neither Aasimar nor Teiflings have an Alignment Subtype, so basically it should use the same exact rules as a Human.

Note also that the Detect Good/Evil/Chaos/Law line of spells will detect Aasimars, Tieflings and other Outsiders at level 1 rather than the normal level 6.

^^^ Also a good note

Is it 6th level or 4th level? The PRD sais 4th level and lower don't have an aura

Is it 6th level or 4th level? The PRD sais 4th level and lower don't have an aura

Hmm, stealth errata? Finally clarity.

For a long time it overlapped and you had to guess. It used to say:
none levels 1-5
faint levels 5-10

(the d20PFSRD still says this)

With the stealth errata it is now 5th level for normal folk before you can detect an aura

On the Detect spells it looks like having an alignment, rather than having an alignment subtype, is what pings Outsiders from level 1. So a Good Aasimar would ping at level 1 whilst a Good human wouldn't. A True Neutral Aasimar would never ping just like a True Neutral human (unless they were also a cleric of an Aligned deity).

Outsiders are also not affected by a normal positive/negative energy channel. You need to take the feat Alignment Channel, and specify outsiders as a targeting choice.

Which will cause some issues with mixed groups - humanoids and outsiders or even a full party of outsiders with different alignments.

Outsiders are also not affected by a normal positive/negative energy channel. You need to take the feat Alignment Channel, and specify outsiders as a targeting choice.

Which will cause some issues with mixed groups - humanoids and outsiders or even a full party of outsiders with different alignments.

Strange... Alignment channel does seem to imply that outsiders aren't normally affected by channeled energy, but I can find no such implication in the rules for outsiders in general.

This is even more significant than you might think, as being unaffected by channeled energy implies being unaffected by positive/negative energy in general, which means being unaffected by cure spells.

And I have a tiefling cleric. O_O

...isn't it the case that the "Aligment Channel" is meant for someone who wants to ONLY hit outsiders with a channel?

Outsiders are also not affected by a normal positive/negative energy channel. You need to take the feat Alignment Channel, and specify outsiders as a targeting choice.

Which will cause some issues with mixed groups - humanoids and outsiders or even a full party of outsiders with different alignments.

So you're saying that outsiders are not living creatures?

Note that if this is the case, Alignment Channel would in fact not fix the ability to affected by channel because you chose an alignment subtype, and as mentioned above, Aasimar and Tieflings do not have the alignment subtypes for their alignment, they just have the native subtype.

Did a little digging. Found this thread.

Seems like it's mostly assumed that outsiders are affected by channeled energy as living creatures like anything else, and Alignment Channel just lets you channel more specifically. Developer Sean K Reynolds seems to imply that the main time you would even bother taking Alignment Channel is if you were in a demon-heavy campaign and like channeling to harm but had too many allies for Selective Channeling to be an option.

So I think it's safe to say tiefling and aasimar PCs can be healed as normal (or get inflicted by their enemies).

Outsiders are also not affected by a normal positive/negative energy channel. You need to take the feat Alignment Channel, and specify outsiders as a targeting choice.

Which will cause some issues with mixed groups - humanoids and outsiders or even a full party of outsiders with different alignments.

I'm sorry, but this is incorrect. Channeling energy as normal has only two different groups that must be specified when channeling - Living and Undead. That's it. Meaning, all living creatures are affected by channeled energy that is targeting the living, whether to heal or harm.

Here's the exact text from the Core Rulebook:

Regardless of alignment, any cleric can release a wave of energy by channeling the power of her faith through her holy (or unholy) symbol. This energy can be used to cause or heal damage, depending on the type of energy channeled and the creatures targeted.

A good cleric (or a neutral cleric who worships a good deity) channels positive energy and can choose to deal damage to undead creatures or to heal living creatures. An evil cleric (or a neutral cleric who worships an evil deity) channels negative energy and can choose to deal damage to living creatures or to heal undead creatures. A neutral cleric of a neutral deity (or one who is not devoted to a particular deity) must choose whether she channels positive or negative energy. Once this choice is made, it cannot be reversed. This decision also determines whether the cleric can cast spontaneous cure or inflict spells (see spontaneous casting).

Channeling energy causes a burst that affects all creatures of one type (either undead or living) in a 30-foot radius centered on the cleric. The amount of damage dealt or healed is equal to 1d6 points of damage plus 1d6 points of damage for every two cleric levels beyond 1st (2d6 at 3rd, 3d6 at 5th, and so on). Creatures that take damage from channeled energy receive a Will save to halve the damage. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the cleric's level + the cleric's Charisma modifier. Creatures healed by channel energy cannot exceed their maximum hit point total—all excess healing is lost. A cleric may channel energy a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier. This is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. A cleric can choose whether or not to include herself in this effect.

A cleric must be able to present her holy symbol to use this ability.

Taking a feat such as Alignment Channel (Law, Chaos, Evil, Good) allows you to narrow down your options of who you're targeting. It also allows GOOD Clerics that only channel Positive Energy to harm outsiders of the selected alignment, without needing Negative Energy to do so.

I hope that makes sense.

Outsiders are also not affected by a normal positive/negative energy channel. You need to take the feat Alignment Channel, and specify outsiders as a targeting choice.

No, Channeling Energy would work on an Aasimar/Tiefling just like a Human, and would also work the same way if they DID have an Alignment Subtype. Alignment Channeling simply allows you to get around that slightly, allowing for instance the ability to harm ONLY an Evil Outsider and not affect any other living/Undead creature in the area, or to heal only say your summoned <Alignment> Outsiders and not heal enemies.

Did a little digging. Found this thread.

Hai, that was my digging!

Jiggy wrote:

Did a little digging. Found this thread.

Hai, that was my digging!

Actually, I found that thread in between making the post you replied to and reading your reply to it. Thanks anyway, though. :)

Unholy water burns good aligned outsiders.

An anti-magic field appears to suppress outsiders spell-like and supernatural abilities. (Though the wording and context is vague.)

A couple of magic weapons do extra damage against outsiders: Mace of smiting, sword of the planes. And of course you can get an outsider (good) slaying arrow.

Some cleric domain spells do extra damage against specific alignment outsiders eg Unholy Blight.

Unholy water burns good aligned outsiders.

The real question, actually, is whether "good/evil outsiders" (the phrase used in the rules) actually means outsiders of that alignment or outsiders with that subtype. Most effects dealing with outsiders seem to deal with the subtypes, rather than merely having that alignment, but holy/unholy water doesn't explicitly specify (unless I missed it).

An anti-magic field appears to suppress outsiders spell-like and supernatural abilities. (Though the wording and context is vague.)

That's true of everyone's supernatural and spell-like abilities, not just those of outsiders.

A couple of magic weapons do extra damage against outsiders: Mace of smiting, sword of the planes. And of course you can get an outsider (good) slaying arrow.

The slaying arrow would be an example of referring to the [good] subtype rather than the good alignment.

Some cleric domain spells do extra damage against specific alignment outsiders eg Unholy Blight.

Hm, this would seem to be another one that's unclear as to whether "good outsider" means outsider who is good, or outsider with the [good] subtype...

Sapphire Onion wrote:

And of course you can get an outsider (good) slaying arrow.

The slaying arrow would be an example of referring to the [good] subtype rather than the good alignment.

It's the same list that is used for favored enemy. Can you have a favored enemy that includes Aasimars or Tieflings?

Jiggy wrote:

Sapphire Onion wrote:

And of course you can get an outsider (good) slaying arrow.

The slaying arrow would be an example of referring to the [good] subtype rather than the good alignment.

It's the same list that is used for favored enemy. Can you have a favored enemy that includes Aasimars or Tieflings?

Yes. The Ranger's favored enemy table includes nine different subtypes of outsiders. Tieflings and aasimar have the [native] subtype, as seen in their race write-ups in the bestiary, ARG, and other places.

Jiggy wrote:

Sapphire Onion wrote:

And of course you can get an outsider (good) slaying arrow.

The slaying arrow would be an example of referring to the [good] subtype rather than the good alignment.

It's the same list that is used for favored enemy. Can you have a favored enemy that includes Aasimars or Tieflings?

How about favored enemy native outsider? It should be a choice though it's not explicitly mentioned in the ranger list (neither are some humanoid subtypes).

How about favored enemy native outsider? It should be a choice though it's not explicitly mentioned in the ranger list (neither are some humanoid subtypes).

Um, it is explicitly mentioned in the ranger list. I just checked.

Dylos wrote:

How about favored enemy native outsider? It should be a choice though it's not explicitly mentioned in the ranger list (neither are some humanoid subtypes).

Um, it is explicitly mentioned in the ranger list. I just checked.

So it is, I must have glanced over it.

Holy/Unholy water damage evil/good aligned outsiders, respectfully, as if it were a flask of acid - this is regardless of alignment subtype.

Chaotic Subtype

This subtype is usually applied to outsiders native to the chaotic-aligned Outer Planes. Most creatures that have this subtype also have chaotic alignments; however, if their alignments change, they still retain the subtype. Any effect that depends on alignment affects a creature with this subtype as if the creature had a chaotic alignment, no matter what its alignment actually is. The creature also suffers effects according to its actual alignment. A creature with the chaotic subtype overcomes damage reduction as if its natural weapons and any weapons it wields are chaotically aligned.

Emphasis mine. Chaotic is just an example; the wording stays the same for each alignment subtype.

Thus, if a Demon somehow became good-aligned it would ping as both evil and good, and be affected harmfully by both holy & unholy water.

Kyle Baird wrote:

I've been toying with a fetchling shadowdancer or an ifrit oracle of flame

Me too! (with tiefling instead of fetchling)

Tieflings are awesome. Just saying. :D